President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Kamala Harris
(R) Donald Trump
80%
20%
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
(R) V. Archuleta
98%
2%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
(R) Marshall Dawson
95%
5%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(D) Adam Frisch
(R) Jeff Hurd
50%
50%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(D) Trisha Calvarese
90%
10%
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Jeff Crank
(D) River Gassen
80%
20%
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
(R) John Fabbricatore
90%
10%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) B. Pettersen
(R) Sergei Matveyuk
90%
10%
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
70%↑
30%
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
May 23, 2008 06:53 PM UTC
79 Comments
It is already at 7.4% and was just raised a few years ago from 6.9%.
Why not save time and raise it to 9.4% so that nobody can afford to buy a new car, or a new house, or a new tv, or a new anything?
This will fail. We are not that stupid in this county. We pay more than our fair share now, we need the local guvment to BUDGET their resources just like the rest of us have to.
OK, now all you tax and spend doomsday types can chime in.
and they budget well.
What counties and cities are stuck with are additional mandates from the state and the feds that require locals to pay for services the latter two entities do not want to.
some examples include:
– elections
– jail time and services
– homeland security requirements
– courthouse security requirements
– human service requirements
What some people don’t understand is the local governments are in the same position that many of us are in – revenues falling and many things still need to be paid for if we are to take care of our own.
How much is enough then?
If you are down to minimal essential services (or worse) and you’re not bringing in enough money, then something has to change.
If sales tax is too high for you, are other taxes and fees too low? Has the county been over-zealous in the past about cutting taxes and is now trapped by conservative finance restrictions?
What relief is needed?
Is not the sales tax rate for El Paso county, that’s the sales tax rate for the city.
And yes, what has been said above is correct. The county is the administrative arm of the state, so if the state tells the county they have to pay for something, they HAVE to pay for it. And usually the mandates are made as unfunded (as to not raise state taxes).
So what should the county do? Because when we’re getting to the point when we have to start cutting the Sherrif’s office, you know that things are getting tight.
where I said 7.4% “total” tax rate.
What is the total tax rate in other like size cities? 7.4% is high now in my opinion.
How much is enough?
Colorado Springs is ranked 48th in population in the US.
* Arlington, TX – ranked 49th – has an 8% sales tax.
* Minneapolis, MN – ranked 47th – has a 7.15% sales tax.
* Honolulu, HI – ranked 46th – has a 4.5% excise tax (no sales tax…).
Taxes vary; sales taxes aren’t the only taxes states and municipalities collect… Most states have higher state revenues than Colorado due to our fiscal history, and this allows cities to lower their sales taxes somewhat.
but if they get this garbage to pass, we will be even higher than any of your examples.
Is that something to brag about?
8.4% is screamingly high.
Nothing funny about this proposal at all.
Our state budget is much lower than any of the other examples I gave; local governments must provide proportionally more in return. Comparatively, Colorado Springs will still be getting off cheap.
This is actually very interesting. In the part of the state with the most vocal low tax base, you have taxes that are well in the average range, and yet services are cut to the bone.
Why? And what is the appropiate level of services/taxes? I hope you guys dive in to what level of services require what level of taxes to work through this logically.
But it will take a balance. If all you look at is the tax rate with no attention to what it buys and if it is needed, then you are not looking at the trade-offs.
If others look only at what they think must be provided and then set the taxes to match, they are not looking at the trade-offs either.
Here’s hoping you all discuss the balance.
The city rates are much higher. There isn’t a comparision between our county tax rates and what the city pays-what other county has a large metropolitian in one part and a large population outside of that in another part?
I’m not going to debate whether 7.4% is high or not. The truth of the matter is that 7.4% isn’t cutting it. If you think it’s high, that’s fine-I respect your opinion. What you should be asking is “what is the appropiate size of county government, and what am I willing to go without?”
Personally, I think there are some areas where we can go without. Screw the CU extension office. We don’t need it. But we do need roads, sherrif deputies, and snow plows.
The extension office has already been cut. Eventually we’ll have to start cutting other things. At what point are you comfortable with that?
(Side note-I am not necessarily supporting the proposed tax increase. I haven’t seen it, and I don’t know if it’s well written. I do however recognize that there is a problem in El Paso county and something needs to be done.)
you might catch that RINO cooty.
Can the Club for Growth primary him for his front-page privileges on Colorado Pols?
If so, he’d better watch out!
Saying a there is a problem isn’t liberal- because I never blamed Bush.
That’s the true sign of a liberal-where everything that ever has happened, or ever will happen is somehow Bush’s fault.
🙂
Cons spent years blaming Carter for everything. You reap what you sow.
Certainly some things are.
Are you talking about the Ag extension of CSU or UCCS? I doubt that the out of pocket/treasury expenditures on either impact the CS budget much. There are of course the fire and police services provided to all institutions and offices, wear and tear to streets, etc.
Closing UCCS is problematic as it hasn’t been an “extension” since 1976, when a constitutional amendment made CU four seperate campuses.
My understanding is that the CU extension isn’t a campus, it’s an office that is funded in part by the county that citizens can go to in order to get information-primarily for agricultural purposes.
I hope no one thought that I was talking about a paricular campus.
You’re talking about an office of CSU not CU.
…are part of the old land grant ag school’s outreach services to farmers, and later, gardeners.
It’ a perfect example of providing informational infrastructure at taxpayer cost where the benefits greatly outweigh costs. It’s one of many reasons America typically outproduces any other nation.
Imagine if Mexico, for instance, had such a thing. Of course, they need a reliable postal system to even start to become the economic power house that they could be.
Good use of taxpayer monies.
You are correct, I apologize
If El Paso, Colorado’s second most populous county (almost first) isn’t able to make do with a 7.4% tax rate than there needs to be discussion on what can be done.
– increase the rate
– decrease the services, or
– find a balance between the two.
What is frustrating is when citizens automatically think ANY tax increase is evil. What if the soldiers and military families in El Paso county aren’t getting help. What if the roads are falling apart or the bridges aren’t safe? What if the storm drainage systems are antiquated and pollution is seeping into runoff?
If the Commissioners are able to narrowly identify what the tax increase will be dedicated for (public safety and health), there is a chance this will pass.
And nobody shows up for 30 minutes?
But hey, at least you didn’t have to pay $4 more dollars in taxes.
It’s much worse than 30 minutes. More like 45.
You could probably drive to Big R, buy a gun, and solve the problem yourself before the cops got there.
While there are some who would oppose a tax increase under any circumstances, I have heard a lot more people that are open to the idea. I think they see the writing on the wall, and while they don’t want the government messing around in their lives, they do want someone to respond when they call 911 and to not get sick after eating out
But close!
I still think a Falcon metro district for emergency services makes more sense than raising the county sales tax. Its more targeted.
since they’ve been getting plenty of experience Nation Building when they’re not at home. What’s a little County Building in their down time? Imagine the relief to patrol the lonely country roads out by Calhan, not an IED in sight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P…
Thanks for the reference. I do not, however, see a prohibition against restaurant inspection (since that seems to be the poster child of the EPC budget crunch).
Your federal national security dollars at work. Keeping Monica’s Taco shop safe, and open for business.
got rid of posse comitatus. Various sources. Here is one link – IntelDaily :
but that law has since been repealed.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…
Thanks for the link. From the same article:
That’s not the Warner Act that suspended posse comitatus in 2006. But that is a key case in the collision between military and civilian law, as a person Bush has labeled an “enemy combatant” being held on U.S. soil, rather than offshore at Guantanamo.
Regarding the above discussion, El Paso County’s budget woes probably don’t rise to the level of a county at war, except with itself.
It is a bit of a derail from the overall topic of CS, but with the discussion about posse comitatus I thought it would be interesting. Especially, since this person is a US citizen being held on US soil, not Guantanamo.
and the position of “government lawyers” is outrageous. But he’s not a U.S. citizen, he’s Qatari. The reason Constitutional questions arise that don’t in the case of detainees captured in Afghanistan, etc., is that al-Marri was a U.S. resident when the Feds swooped in.
I read the article last night and unwittingly swapped resident with citizen. Good catch.
And at the same time, regulation like health inspections is well under accepted standards. Where do you propose that the budget can be improved?
The Commissioners would, I am sure, value your apparently boundless wisdom greatly. We’d like a peek, too.
I do know that myself and thousands of others here don’t have the luxury of crying to the taxpayers for more money every few years.
Go to your boss every other year asking for more money and see how long he keeps you around before he fires your ass.
We all need to budget ourt money. Or do without. I have to, don’t you?
You can’t swing a raise every two years? That’s too bad dude.
a raise every two years. Except maybe the county or city or state boys.
In the real world, unless you make $10.00 an hour, you ain’t gonna get raises every other year.
I’m talking about guys that now make between $20 – $30 and hour now though.
Before you say it I know many of the shovel holding state guys don’t make 30 dollars an hour, but they damn sure have PERA to support them later on. I don’t.
Cliches and bad analogies. That’s a great way to develop a budget.
I’d put it the other way, if you don’t get a raise over a 2 year period in the private sector, then they’re considering firing you.
I’ve known people who are in positions where wages are stagnant for extended periods. The companies aren’t exactly looking to fire anyone, but usually a lack of regular raises also means the company doesn’t value you highly….
but I always get one, each year, and that’s private sector baby. Either you’re in the wrong industry or you’re not earning your raise (which I find more likely, given the level of intelligence you typically display).
I earn $30.00 an hour, no college, with full benefits.
How much do you make?
You glossed over where I spoke not about low pay workers but 20-30 dollar (non union) or more guys.
So say it again, I am not worth what I am being paid?
The point is, you saif only state employees get annual raises. Let’s go to the tape…
It’s none of your business how much I make since it doesn’t change what you said, but it’s good money, believe me.
for me to ask you this: Are you Gecko, posting under a sockpuppet for reasons clear only to you? Everything you’ve ever revealed about yourself matches details of Gecko’s life that he shared. Hell of a coincidence, given your similar writing styles too.
When the state hands counties unfunded mandates that if go unfunded on the county level people go to jail.
So for that to apply in our lives, the government would have to mandate to each person to buy a bigger house, and then throw them in jail if they don’t comply
It’s expenses that used to be co-paid at higher rates by the State and Federal governments, and increased costs of doing business (anyone noticed that fuel prices have quadrupled in 10 years?), and neglected maintenance begging for attention, and…
I’m more than interested in government efficiency, but whatchya gotta pay, ya gotta pay.
The crux of the point that I’m making is that you can only tighten the belt so much before the only thing left to cut is something that is mandated one way or another. If you’re a county commissioner and you cut that, you go to jail.
Social Security isn’t “mandated” by anyone other than those who receive it, but if Congress tries to cut it, bad juju follows…
Cut your road maintenance down to nothing and the voters will come after your hide when the roads are crappy.
But it’s just got to be wrong anyway?
Have you looked at their budget to see what it’s doing and why?
If a business has increased costs due to fuel expenses, aging equipment, or other costs essential to their business, then as a shareholder I definitely expect the business to (a) do an analysis, and (b) come up with the necessary budget to keep the business going at the highest level possible. If (b) necessitates raising prices to the consumer, then I expect them to do so, regardless of the initial grumbling at the checkout counter.
I do not expect the business to magically find a fix to their problem, nor do I expect them to run the business into the ground trying to avoid charging for increased expenses. Why should I expect anything different from my government?
7.4% is a percentage.
That collection increases as prices increase.
Collections also fluctuate as sales increase and decrease.
Why do we need to raise the percentage by 12% additional?
Why does government taking a larger share of your money not concern every one of you?
I didn’t say taking more of your money, I said a larger percentage of your money.(share)
What if to “get er done” they need 100%?
The tax rate in Monroe County Florida (Florida Keys) is 7.5% with no state or local income tax.
There must be a line drawn. A percentage above which government cannot pass.
Raising El Paso counties sales tax another cent would make Colorado Springs sales tax
higher than the sales tax in Beverly Hills
California.(The most expensive city in CA.)
Maybe it’s too high?
Maybe it’s too low?
Maybe it should be other taxes (property taxes, income taxes, …) that are increased?
But all any of you are doing is yelling “too high”, no “too low.” Why not discuss what is the appropiate level of funding for EPC and what is the best way to raise that money?
Here is your El Paso Co. Budget
. Root out the waste, corruption and anything else you think should not be in it. I am sure your county government will thank you for your effort.
You say everything should be by citizen vote, or at least the Honorable Bruce does, well as a citizen you need to have the package read and ready to put on the ballot. And, make sure every other citizen does the same thing. As a well populated county you may only have a few thousand budgets on the ballot to vote on.
Let EPC be a laboratory of bad ideas, to serve as a warning for everyone else.
Let them sink into the hole they dug with their stupifyingly bankrupt ideology.
Why doesn’t the ample church infrastructure take up some of the slack, same as they claim to do with social services?
Why inspect restaurants? If people get sick at your restaurant, they won’t come back. Soon, you’re out of business. Case closed.
Isn’t that the market-based approach advocated by Adam Smith? Or is that a faith-based approach?
to eat at some of my favorite restaurants in Colorado Springs.
or would that be a frivalous lawsuit?
Could I bring a class action lawsuit so that plaintiffs can share costs?
Or would that be enriching greedy lawyers?
Should restaurants have to carry large umbrela policies?
Or should they be allowed to use bankruptcy to poisen and escape without conseguence?
Good regulation reduces lawsuits. We have a choice in the US. There is a choice: Good public regulation or a system of private regulation. Public regulation means lawsuits and it means uncapped lawsuits. Capping lawsuits means creating an asymetric risk profile and does not act as a deterant to bad behavior.
Make a choice: public or private regulation.
However, conservative have shown little inclination to make choices and instead have a “have your cake and eat it too” philosophy of non governance.
I’ve been thinking about this issue from the perspective of the unfolding Schaffer scandals. Beginning with Goldwater/Buckley and coming to the forefront thru Reagan, Gingrich, and Bush 43 (exception-Bush 41), the modern conservative argument has been “govt is evil”- not necessary or a necessary evil, just evil. When one begins with that premise, then there is no reason to care about using government power for actual governance, or in the interests of the public. Instead, since govt is without value (and the private sector is predominant), it becomes legitimate to dismantle or divert govt resources to benefit cronies in the private sector. Hence the widespread breakdown of professional ethics in current Repub politics.
To my (limited) knowledge, this modern conservative attitude toward govt is a fundamental departure from traditional conservatism, and may account for multiple aspects of the party’s current difficulty.
is the essence of modern “conservative” philosophy, as far as I can tell. Which makes them not conservatives but anarchists.
Basically, if we need these services, they should be paid for by the users, like parks, roads, hospitals, buses, and tax collection (if needed). Police and fire services could be managed just like ambulance services. And not even touching on that socialist organization, the Colorado Springs Utilities.
Sounds like a wiener to me.
on incomes over $250,000!
Just yoink $1,000 for each person making over that.
Can cities/counties levy taxes on capital gains? That’s what they really should do.
Or! I got! Tax the churches!
Democracy in action. If it passes substantially then the voters everywhere are willing to listen to valid arguments about what is the level of taxation needed to provide the services they expect.
If it fails substantially, then EPC continues to be a laboratory for drastically reducing local government services.
I can’t wait to see how this plays out.
Grover Norquist, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, etc all moving to Colo Spgs as it is nearing their desired goal?
Instead they all choose to live in D.C. which is arguably the most subsidized highest government spending location in the country.
Whether 7.4 percent sales tax is enough to pay for state, county and city services in Colorado Springs (plus whatever special districts), it’s hardly an embodiment of Grover Norquist’s proposal.
In addition, D.C. has an income tax (maybe Colorado Springs should consider that), which tops out at 8.5 percent for income above $40,000 (4-6 percent up to that). it’s not a low-tax city.(The D.C. sales tax is 5.75 percent. Restaurant and bar sales tax at 10 percent.)
I might be wrong, but I don’t think PB is a low tax advocate. Can’t recall him doing the Norquist Boogy.
also lives in Virginia …
Just kidding. But certainly when we refer to VA and MD in the DC context, it’s just the Beltway Burbs.
Four or five years ago in the Springs, I got a ticket for making a left turn on a yellow light. When I got to court it was running a red light. There were “mandatory” fines which could not be reduced. The four points, however were reduced to one. It cost me $140.00. A friend, who was mayor of one of the smaller towns out east on the pririe, said that was how the city was handling their shortfall. Well the hapless motorist can no longer do this. Maybe the solution is to petition the feds to close Ft Carson. All those people would go away and CS could go back to being the idyllic town it once was.
Of course, swift and sure law enforcement is a conservative value. And if you were running a yellow light, who’s to say the cops don’t really know better when they say it’s red?
Seriously, do traffic fines go into the city’s general fund, or is their use more restricted? I don’t know. That would seem a particularly fertile source of funds for Colorado Springs, with all those soldiers and airmen driving around.
Is that what Grover Norquist meant? Cut taxes so much you have to give fake tickets to our military?
At the time, I inquired where those fines were spent. The response was less than clear. The implication was that it went to road repairs, but no one said,”It goes to road repairs.” Time and advancing age have made the recall of details as vague as the answer was then.
I got this bogus ticket at Lincoldn and 5th where the RTD lane ends. There was this jerk cop who would stand on the sidewalk north of 5th, and if anyone dare to move over in the last few feet before 5th, he waved them over for a ticket. Saw a lot of people get snagged after me.
Got to court and the city had offered a reduction to defective equipment and one point. The magistrate, it was obvious, was very sympathetic but was in no position to agree that the cop was a jerk.
Because of mandatory court costs, MADD fees, etc., my fine went from $74 to………
$72.
In the early 90’s (before I was a lawyer) I got a copy of the DA’s plea book (I don’t know what else to call it). For one particular crime it directly said something like ‘we are changing the plea for x to y from z, because the county keeps the money for y and the state keeps the money for z.’
Its common, widespread and abused.
When our state, many years ago, went to the regressive flat rate income system, it automatically raised all the middle income taxes. In some areas it took affect right away, like if you had to pay tuition or had to deplete rainy day funds. In other areas it took awhile because of procrastination. Colorado Springs put up the good fight, including sending raw sewage to Pueblo. It is such a shame that this is occuring as some thought that this city was the most desirable in Colorado. Now it is becoming a dump.