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April 09, 2008 03:33 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 39 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Where the shills, trolls, and sockpuppets mix it up.

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39 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread”

      1. And I don’t think 9 is realistic, either.

        However, six seats look to more than likely go blue–CO, LA, MN, NH, NM, VA and a seventh, Maine, has a good candidate in Tom Allen.

        With CO and VA, we have two open seats, which increases our chances for a pickup. (There is a third open seat, I think NM, but I can’t quite remember.)

        1. He indicates their polling shows CO, NH, NM, VA, and AK with the Democrat leading the GOP in a GOP seat.  (Yes, that’s Alaska with a Democrat in the lead…)  MN is polling even (Franken vs. Coleman), and OR and ME are running close.

          The Louisiana race currently looks like it will stay in (D) Landrieu’s hands despite a strong challenge from party-switcher Kennedy.

          All-in-all, I think the Democrats are looking at a 5-8 seat pick-up, possibly more depending on candidate performance, coat-tails, and the state of the nation come voting season.  Note that there are 17 GOP seats being challenged this year; a loss of 5-8 is not a good sign for Team Republican.

          MotR – New Mexico is the other open seat; Domenici is retiring.

    3. …there will be a great deal of pressure on Harry Reid to show Joe Lieberman the door.  Reid has told Lieberman he won’t remove him as chair of Homeland Security, but if there are enough new Dems pressuring the majority leader, or if there is a new majority leader, all bets are off as to whether Lieberman remains.

      1. If there’s a Democrat in the White House next year, Lieberman becomes mostly harmless.  His position as chair is more helpful to Bush because he’s blocking any meaningful investigations; with Bush out, he becomes just another Senator with a chairmanship.

        He’s annoying (1) because he has been flaunting the rules of the party (and possibly CT law) with his “third-party” election, and (2) because he has been sitting on investigations as chair of the Gov’t Ethics Committee (or whatever it’s called in the Senate).

        That being said, he’s not technically a Democrat and doesn’t “need” a chairmanship; it was given to him to maintain the slim majority we gained in ’06.  If there are enough new Democrats and a strong push for change, Lieberman could very well be gone from the Chair.

        1.    There was already an attempt to throw him out of the Ct. Democratic Party but it was unsuccessful….But I agree that he is flaunting party rules.

  2. He should drop out immediately!  This is so dangerous to have a leader who doesn’t know the difference between the two countries!!!

    Ahem…

    Does that sound as idiotically similar as all the whining about McCain misspeaking earlier this year?  How about this:

    He misspoke.  We know he means Iran, not Iraq, just as McCain knew what he was speaking about.

    Here’s the quote…

    U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ RYAN CROCKER: Senator, as I said in my statement, we have no problem with a good, constructive relationship between Iran and Iraq. The problem is with the Iranian strategy of backing extremist militia groups and sending in weapons and munitions that are used against Iraqis and against our own forces.

    OBAMA: Do we feel confident that the Iraqi government is directing these — this aid to these special groups?

    Do we feel confident about that, or do we think that they’re just tacitly tolerating it? Do you have some sense of that?

    3. Did you see McCain stammer and stutter and try to remember if AQI is Shi’ites or Sunnis?

      When the entire basis for your candidacy is that you have the best national security chops and you can’t get very important details correct one has to wonder, no?  

        1. We know how that has worked out.

          Live long enough and you too can be experienced.  Without wisdom experience is meaningless.

          McCain has was a proponent of Invading Iraq long before almost anyone else in government: We now know that was an unwise position.

          1. Chris and Danny have answered nicely.

            I never claimed Obama had more experience, just that McCain’s entire campaign is based on his experience and yet he clearly doesn’t know the details.

            The current administration has demonstrated that experience doesn’t mean anything when your instincts are fundamentally flawed.  

            1. For McCain it is a patterm–thats why it is an issue.

              However, I’m not sure he is mispeaking.  I think he is doing something worse: conflating Iran and al Qaeda much as the Bush administration did with Iraq and al Qaeda in the run up to the Iraq war debacle.  Why do I believe that? The day afrer, McCain “mispoke” in Jordan, the next day McCain campaign put out a press release which conflated Al Qaeda and Iran again.  Given the flap over McCain “mispeaking”, I’m sure it was vetted carefully.  Why would they put out a written statement confirming his verbal gaffe?  I can think of only two reasons.  1. He is deliberately attemptng to conflate Iran and al Qaeda the same way Bush conflated Iraq and al Qaeda to promote misinformation amongst the american people inorder to further political goals against the interest of the american people.  2. Or something that is too terrible to consider–His campaign recognizes McCain’s incapacity and put out the press release to promote the first version of the gaff.

              I prefer to believe the first.

    4. It’s obvious in the above statement that it’s a misspoken word; they’re clearly talking about Iran throughout the exchange.

      There’s a big difference between misspeaking and being at best misinformed, which is what McCain’s gaffes have been.  And considering that – even after being corrected on multiple occasions – McCain keeps on using the same false lines, the question must be raised about whether he’s a misinformed candidate, or if the Straight Talk Express has developed a few curves and twists.

  3.    Still no word from either Shifty or Wadhams trying to spin his Marianas Islands story?

      My guess is that they’re hunkered down, hoping it will blow over.

      In the meantime, they should be working on Plan “B”….having Pete Coors in the bullpen warming up in case Schaffer bails out on running this Nov.

    1. When the going gets tough, the NRSC gets millionaires.  It’s better than trying to pull money up from a dry well.

      I’m guessing you’re right – the media will forget about the CNMI quote and, if it becomes necessary, Udall will have to dredge it up from the dustbin when the campaign kicks into high gear.

    2. just posted the Post story on its front page

      http://talkingpointsmemo.com/a…

      and includes this analysis:

      Curious to see whether anyone raises these matters with Schaffer. This article in the Denver Post seems to have been written with little sense of the track record in the Marianas. The reporter presents Schaffer’s pitch as part of the candidate’s effort to take a ‘moderate’ stance on the immigration question.

  5. I’ve always thought that “enhanced interrogation techniques” was a poor euphemism for torture. But then again, our president told us that Americans don’t torture. “Waterboarding has been condemned by many members of Congress, human rights groups and other countries as a form of illegal torture. Bush and administration officials have said repeatedly that the United States does not use or condone torture.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article…

    And everyone knew. “In addition to Rice, the principals at the time included Vice President Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft, the report said.”

    ANd they discussed this in the White House, which at least made Ashcroft uncomfortable. “ABC cited a top official as saying that Ashcroft asked aloud after one meeting: “Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly.” Good observation.

      1. According to ABC, he “approved” the techniques reluctantly, but was very upset that he and other top WH official were discussing it, in the White House.  He thought history would judge them better if it were left to underlings, or something…

        If this story is true, it means the lot of them should be up on war crimes charges and/or impeachment.  “Highly placed sources” probably means Powell or Ashcroft, or at the outside Tenet; Cheney probably assembled the group in the first place, Rice was running the meetings, and Rumsfeld never showed a bit of remorse for any of it while it was happening.  The other three all have had some beefs with the administration, are all gone from the administration, and have a history of showing at least a modicum of a conscience.  Whoever the source is, they’re likely angling for immunity from what they see as the incoming Democratic administration…

        1. Everyone’s complicit. Powell’s the only one I have any respect for anymore. The others have always claimed moral high ground while allowing for these kinds of actions to be perpetrated on their watch.

          I just hope that none of our soldiers are captured and treated to Bush-style “hospitality.”

          1. He also told Gonzales where to stuff it while he was lying in a hospital bed recovering from surgery and not medically competent to be the AG for a bit.

            I may not like a lot of what he stood for, but his moral compass was only stiff, not broken.

                1. Ashcroft composed a paean called “Let the Eagle Soar” which he sang at the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in February 2002. The rendition was satirically featured in Michael Moore’s 2004 movie Fahrenheit 9/11 and has been frequently mocked by comedians such as David Letterman and Stephen Colbert. The song was also sung at Bush’s 2005 inauguration by Guy Hovis, former cast member of The Lawrence Welk Show. Ashcroft has penned and sung a number of other songs and created compilation tapes, including In the Spirit of Life and Liberty and Gospel (Music) According to John.

                  With fellow Senators Trent Lott, Larry Craig, and James Jeffords, he formed a barbershop quartet called The Singing Senators.

                  As a singer, I take offense to this.

                2. Senator Hatch’s music:

                  http://www.hatchmusic.com/song…

                  Plus, Hatch comes to the rescue of fellow music biz types in trouble:

                  LOS ANGELES, July 7 – Although collaborations happen all the time in pop music, they do not generally involve R & B hitmakers and Senator Orrin G. Hatch.

                  But the release of a music producer [Dallas Austin] from a Dubai jail this week, quick on the heels of his conviction for drug possession, turns out to be a story of high-level string-pulling on the part of Mr. Hatch, the conservative Utah Republican and songwriter, along with Lionel Richie, the singer; Quincy Jones, the music entrepreneur; and an array of well-connected lawyers, businessmen and others, spanning cities and continents.

                  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…

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