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July 09, 2007 03:27 PM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 43 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”

–Sen. John McCain

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43 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread”

  1. ….and it may or may not be true.  The quote part, not the ugly part!  Some sources actually use the word “alleged”, another points out that there isn’t any tape of this boorish quote.

    The last pictures I saw of Chelsea I thought she was pretty hot.  Photographic aberration? 

    1. These comments are just fun ways to get everybody going on a Monday morning. You end up looking up things like:

      http://www.salon.com…

      and finding out about interesting things. It also brings up nice political discourse and a discussion may ensue about media and how they cherry pick quotes that may have been spoken years and years ago. It is all in good fun, and these quotes aren’t half as bad as what my college buddies and I would talk about over a few beers!

  3. as I found this pseudo apology from him for it:

    McCain apologized to President Clinton after news of the joke became public, but did not apologize to Chelsea Clinton or Janet Reno. “This is the bad boy,” McCain said. “It was stupid and cruel and insensitive. I’ve apologized. I can’t take it back. I was wrong, but do you want me crucified?” He added, “I will always maintain a sense of humor. Life is too short not to.” —
      [3]www.wcla.org

    What a complete and total asshole…sort of makes me happy that his campaign has totally imploded and twenty-first tier candidate Ron Paul has more cash on hand than he does!

    http://politicaltick…

    1. and I’m not particularly a fan of McCain, but if you stick a microphone in front of almost anyone for long enough, you’ll manage to record a quote of this sort sooner or later. We need to learn how to ignore the trivial, cut people a bit more slack, and focus on issues.

      1. I don’t think it is appropriate for anyone to call a teenaged girl “ugly”, and I question the character of anyone who would–especially someone who is seeking my vote.

        Chelsea Clinton certainly did not seek the spotlight and she should have been considered “off limits” in terms of being attacked. 

        1. but only suggest that spontaneous comments of such a disagreeable nature are more common than we tend to admit, and that very few people spend their lives never accidentally making one.

          I am far more appalled by Saturday Night Live’s calculated decision to mock Chelsea when her dad was in office by dressing Chris Farley up as her. That was not a spontaneous slip, and thus was far more worthy of strong reprobation.

          If we start over-judging people for every foolish thing that ever leaves their lips, and apply a one-strike-your-out policy to anyone seeking higher office, we will create (or reinforce) the adverse selection mechanism of choosing the most calculating, least sincere people. The quality most coveted will continue to be, and in ever-greater strength, the ability to completely control one’s constantly calculated self-presentation. While controlled self-presentation sometimes is quite valuable to a public official’s ability to function effectively, when it becomes the dominant criterion it displaces other qualities that are equally or more valuable, such as sincerity.

          It’s not so much that I’m forgiving, as that I’m reasonable. Clinton’s infidelities, McCain’s ill-considered spontaneous ridicule of a then-teen-ager, Bush’s past drug-abuse, Biden’s poorly considered comment on Obama’s “cleanliness,” are all side-shows. None of those disqualifies any of them for any office, even the highest one in the land. Few people, even the most brilliant and talented, manage to traverse the years without an ocassional fauz pas. (Name any president or world leader, and you can probably find a similarly offensive or ill-considered statement somewhere in their public history).

          There are many dysfunctional habits of our culture, and one of the most severe is our habit of indulging in orgies of righteous indignation. It is a habit which serves us poorly, and leads to many injustices. I remember, for instance, walking near the campus of Brown University in Providence, RI, when an earnest young women approached me with a petition to boycott a local restaurant owner for firing a homosexual waiter. When I asked her how she knew that the waiter was fired for being homosexual and not for being an incompetent waiter, she replied, “we just know.” And thus our self-satisfied youth, enjoying the elixer of their righteous indignation, may well have been attempting to destroy the livelihood of a completely innocent and hard-working fellow citizen (or of a homophobic bigot -who knows?).

          If McCain’s statement were part of a pattern of insensitive conduct, that would be something to take into consideration. But it was an isolated blunder. In fact, one of the things I do like about McCain, relative to the majority of those who seek and hold public office, is that he seems relatively natural in his self-presentation. He makes jokes without constantly censoring himself for political expediency. I don’t like this particular joke at all, but I do like the priorities reflected by his unwillingness to single-mindedly seek power at the expense of his beliefs and personality. He is the un-Mitt Romney, and that is his most redeeming quality.

          If it weren’t for our ideological differences, he would probably be my preference for the presidency, as much because of his ability to make this tasteless joke as in spite of it.

          1. Clinton’s infidelities, McCain’s ill-considered spontaneous ridicule of a then-teen-ager, Bush’s past drug-abuse, Biden’s poorly considered comment on Obama’s “cleanliness,” are all side-shows

            And Bill Bennett’s gambling? Limbaugh’s prescription med addiction? Ted Haggard’s  -ahem- problem?

            1. It’s not something I pay a lot of attention to, but unless I’m mistaken Haggard vociferously condemned homosexuality while engaging in homosexual behavior. That’s not a slip, nor a personality flaw that isn’t relevant to his position. Of course, evangalists and proselytizers in general fall pretty squarely into the category of those fanning the flames of, and exploiting, the orgies of righteous indignation that I hold in low regard, so it appeals to my sense of poetic justice when they fall victim to those same orgies. (Unfortunately, the constituents of these Elmer Gantrys seem far more willing to forgive the cynical hypocricy of their leaders than to forgive the far more respectable habitual targets of their vitriol).

              As for Limbaugh, he, too, is ever-ready to condemn every one else in the world, except those who hold prejudices identical to his own. He’s so sloppy with the facts, belligerent toward and about those who disagree with him, and generally uncivil that it’s hard for me to worry about what is or isn’t fair to him. Short of being a victim of criminal violence or personal tragedy, whatever misfortune befalls him is pretty much what he deserves. I don’t care about his prescription drug use per se, but “he who lives by the sword….”

              Bill Bennett is only a general moralizer, not, as far as I know, an anti-gambling crusader, so, in spite of the fact that I’m no fan of his, I don’t think his gambling is particularly relevant.

              None of the errors I mentioned were direct contradictions of the public stance for which that individual was known, and by which they maintained fame, fortune, or power. When someone acts in ways that do directly contradict there trademark public stance, that is another matter.

              1. the argument could be made that John McCain has never tried to present himself as a particularly compassionate individual toward teen-aged girls, so I see where you are coming from with regards to hypocricy.

                Having said that though, I find it morally reprehensible that an 60-something year-old adult who fancies himself as a potential leader of the free world, would publicly attack the relative attractiveness of a teen girl.  This is behavior that I would expect only from Newt Gingrich or Fred Thompson as they are prospecting for their next wives.

              2. . . . that I agree with you but, I knew that I if I threw out those examples, I’d likely provoke a rant!  I can be, on occasion, quite the rabble-rouser.

  4. Last time I looked, Senator John McCain wasn’t looking very dapper or GQ himself. His insensitivity toward an innocent and politically uninvolved young girl is inexcusable.  I would also agree that, beauty being in the eye of the beholder, Chelsea Clinton is growing out of the awkward years and is becoming a very attractive young woman in her own right. Anyway who cares, I never outgrew the awkward years and I’m still ungly.

  5. This is amazing.  Perfect statistical correlations between the use of lead paint and leaded gasoline and crime.  And that the latter went down, much to Guiliani’s benefit, twenty years after we got the lead out. 

    Talk about the law of unintended consequences!  In effect, rational scientific and business decisions to put lead in paint and gasoline indirectly murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents and probably millions of victims of lesser crimes.

    http://www.washingto…

    1. I recently read an article in The Economist about the relative crime rates in America, their controls, and their causes.  They note that while the crime rate has gone down in New York, Chicago, and LA, the numbers as a whole are actually *up* across the whole country.  That could mean two things:

      1) If you believe the Washington Post, only those three cities (and everyone who moved into them in the last 20 years) actually ended the use of lead, while everyone stuck on the outside is still poisoned with heavy metals
      Or
      2) You could think that the police strategy of prosecuting the little things and tracking and responding to trends in crime by placing cops on the beat in the worst areas first actually pays dividends.

      I’m no Giuliani fan, but I’m gonna go with Option 2.

      Like I said, this reeks of a hit piece on a GOP frontrunner.

      1. you could read the piece, and if necessary, the report.  They cover your excuses.

        I see it as far less of a hit piece than some light coming forth.  Even if it was, would most people ever learn this?  Or if they did, wouldn’t they just dismiss it…..oh, like you.

        It’s good science.

        1. Read the piece again, and it doesn’t really cover my point.  Or, rather, it covers it, but only about as well as my old Superman pajamas would cover my nether regions these days.

          The simple fact is Rudy’s strategy (rather, the strategy attributed to him) works.  Sounds like a lot of scrambling to find spin to cover Rudy’s positive background to me. 

          What about immigrant neighborhoods?  Do New York and Los Angeles not have any of those?  Certainly they don’t just get the immigrants who had lead banned in their countries on the same timeline. 

          And, once again, crime rates in the large cities using the police enforcement strategy continue to drop, and in a statistically-significant difference from the population as a whole. 

          I know success has many fathers – certainly such a “miracle” does indeed.  But to say Rudy lucked out, well, that’s political spin, not economic study.

          Though maybe we should have shaped the battlefield in Iraq by selling Saddam a bunch of lead-free paint 20 years ago.  Heck, alert the State Department and DoD – free lead-free paint subsidies for all my friends!  World Peace is at hand in 20 years!

            1. Made it back just in time to quaff a Sam Adams and watch some fireworks.  Now I have a little bit of time, which is nice.

              As for the point below, I did find the firewall was a little interesting.  This site was open, probably because I was about the only one visiting it, and there was a lot more traffic across the network.  Myspace, of course, was blocked.  The entire Blogspot domain was blocked.  But most of the news-ish blogs were not – Pajamas Media, Bill Roggio, even the Daily Kos and the like were open.  That’s just a quick-ish rundown of what was and wasn’t blocked.

              I get the sense it’s mostly about bandwidth – the big-time timewasters were blocked, so people could maintain access to the stuff that’s important, like the email sites to keep in touch with folks at home, and most news sites.

          3. Good phrase, and I agree.

            I’m not dissing Rudy’s efforts, really.  I agree with the petty crime “broken window” theory.  I mean, all you have to do is look at kids where no transgression is permitted, and those where the parents overlook them. When people learn they can get away with behaviors, they often up the ante. 

            I still can’t see that the purpose of all this reasearch was to ultimately diss Rudy.  That’s just where the chips fell.  It’s like claiming RR caused the fall of the Soviet Union…he was the prez when the SU mostly collapsed of its own rot.  Rudy was the mayor when the beneficial results of getting the lead out happened.  But Rudy did help with his policies, I agree.

            1. I’m not saying the research was designed to take the air out of Rudy’s campaign.  I’m saying the spin the Washington Post put on it was.  That’s probably where our disagreement came from.

  6. This is amazing.  Perfect statistical correlations between the use of lead paint and leaded gasoline and crime.  And that the latter went down, much to Guiliani’s benefit, twenty years after we got the lead out. 

    Talk about the law of unintended consequences!  In effect, rational scientific and business decisions to put lead in paint and gasoline indirectly murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents and probably millions of victims of lesser crimes.

    http://www.washingto…

    1. Is associated with kids homes and schools along the I-25 corridor…who knew? I know you will want a source for that.  It is a conversation I had many years ago with a Department of Health researcher…nothing more…but take a map and take a look…

      1. When 65%-70% of minority students are dropping out, it’s not because of I-25.

        I wish people were more freaked out by what a nightmare DPS is creating for us.

          1. The same people have been in power for many years in Colorado education.  What they are doing is not working by any measure, and it’s time for a sea change.

            1. Reduce the pay of teachers?  (Downtown administrators, possibly.)

              Refuse compliance with Federal mandates on language and immigration status?

              All cities across America with huge student populations of “immigrants” and minorities generally have the same problems.  I suppose that all of them are “creating” their situations?

              1. And go to vouchers.  Here is an example of what a voucher school might look like. 

                They focus on low income, inner-city Latinos.  Their graduation rate was 100%, and all but one of their graduating seniors has been accepted and is college-bound.

                DPS can’t teach 100% of 18-year-olds how to tie their shoes, let alone graduate them and send them on to college. 

                It’s time for the powers that be to take a look at the bigger picture and try to save some of these kids.

                PS, I am not a big Christian. I don’t go to church, and don’t have a secret agenda.  I could care less if they go to a Jewish school or a Madrassa or a Buddhist temple.  Get these kids educated and get them on their way.

                1. ….the point being examined by us is the claim and counter claim of the DPS CREATING the mess. The basic public education format has worked well for 150 years.  That’s a lot of baby to throw out with bathwater.

                  Now, if vouchers are a solution, that’s different. (I think that they could be in limited scenarios, but not a broad “all kids in these schools get vouchers.”)

                  1. The power structure is what needs to go.  Start with the CEA.  It’s the clearest example of the bad that unions can do if they trump their mission with greed and a desire to hold on to power.

      2. Ten or more years ago.  I think that we got lead out of the gas by the late seventies, so we would see the changes coming in the nineties.  Stable after that.

        I would also think that there just isn’t that much residential housing along I-25.  Cole, Whittier, and Five Points certainly aren’t, and the barrio of NW Denver, neither.

    2. Steven D. Levitt in the pop classic correlated a high abortion rate with a drop in crime rates seventeen years later. He is a University of Chicago economist. He used regression analysis to discount the influence of other factors…such as more police and the Guiliani tactics in New York. Fascinating theory..

      As for DPS, there has been no independent audit of why children in any one school are failing.  One would think that such an evaluation would preceed any proposed solutions.

      The I25/I70 corridors present an intriguing study. First, you look at where children live and play.  The old time projects like Westwood and Stapleton were in the vicinity of hwys.  You look at elementary schools, not middle or high schools. Denver Health should do vigorous testing for lead in preschoolers…test the playgrounds…

      NW Denver abuts I25 in the East and I70 to the North and it has NOT been a barrio in many years….but the dirt, the playgrounds??

  7. …can you imagine, now?

    Seems that R. Senator David Vitter got caught dipping his wick outside of the marital bed, courtesy of the DC Madam.  I’d love to know how much he used “family values” in his speeches.

    I’m sure some Dems will appear in her records, too. I wonder why Vitter’s use of prostitutes hit the media first?

    http://apnews.myway….

    Her website of names and phone numbers is overloaded. 

    1. The latest on operations in Iraq.

      The rundown:
      1) Anbar had a coffee klatch of tribal leaders – Sunni and Shia – talking about peace and the future.
      2) Mooqy ran away again.  The Wuss.
      3) Operations continue in the belts – lots of bomb caches, lots of bad guys.
      4) Clear-and-Hold in Baghdad’s around 50% or so. 
      5) They’re taking it to JAM, Iranian cells, and the other Shia, in addition to the Sunnis.

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