President (To Win Colorado)
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98%
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CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(R) Marshall Dawson
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48%
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
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April 16, 2007 10:30 PM UTC
12 Comments
It was a trashy hit piece on evangelicals, Haners. For the author if you’re kind of a squishy, smiley, Hawaiian-shirt-wearing sort of evangelical then you’re totally cool. BUT…if you actually dare to involve yourself in politics (God forbid) then you’re kind of a theocratic monster like Jim Dobson.
By the way, Rick Warren doesn’t do politics. He didn’t support Bush in ’04 and he doesn’t speak out on abortion or gay marriage. I think he’s a great guy but he just doesn’t do politics. That’s exactly why this liberal author loves him so much.
Evangelicals make up something like 35-45% of the American electorate. That’s a lot of people. In that large swath of the population you have to expect a great deal of diversity–ideological and otherwise. Some are going to be very outspoken and political–like Dobson–others will be silent on political matters instead focusing exclusively on preaching and their church–like Joel Osteen and Rick Warren. Others, like Richard Land, are somewhere in between.
Anyone who thinks of the evangelical community as a big, scary monolith just doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
This tripe has to stop. This poster has NEVER clarified what “God-Like” qualities Dobsan has. AND…he cannot back up his BS with anything related to the founding fathers of this great country. This poster does a disservice to American values.
Argue away.
I think Ken Salazar had it right the first time when he speculated that James Dobson may have three 6’s on his head. I regretted that the senator took back what he said about Dobson being the anti-Christ.
I think the article is right on at least a couple points. The Terry Shiavo fiasco was the beginning of the end for Republicans in 2006, and I really do think that Dobson over-reaches when it comes to politics. Sorry to insult your man there :-), but while I agree with what he has to say about families, my respect for him does not extend to politics.
I mean, good people can disagree about the Schiavo thing. You and I can probably agree that there was something shady going on down there and it was morally wrong for hubby to take the tube out. We disagree whether or not the federal government should have gotten involved. That’s fair.
But Terry Schiavo has nothing to do with the GOP’s current minority status. That’s liberal happy-talk. The GOP is now in the minority because it has been limp on immigration and spending. It’s in the minority because the Mark Foley thing was the needle that broke the electoral camel’s back. We’re in the minority because the corruption in Washington a la Abramoff. We’re in the minority because people are sick of politics and bickering and the party in leadership always gets blamed for that. Liberals point to Schiavo because that incident demonstrates the political power of conservative Christians. And there’s nothing liberals despite more than conservative Christians. We are the ultimate bogeyman and if the left can somehow prove that we are the cause of the Republicans’ problems it will be sweet vindication. Don’t buy it.
Haners, the talk of 2004 was how powerful the ‘values voters’ was. You don’t go in the span of two years from most powerful voting bloc to the main cause of the Great Republican Collapse. I promise that if you throw Dobson and the social cons overboard you will not have a party and you will never see conservatism in power again. The GOP would be dead in the water without guys like Dobson. Who do you think has been the major reason the GOP’s GOTV has been so strong? It’s the huge churches! It’s the social conservatives!
Dobson is a Christian long before he’s a Republican. He’s not in the game to play party politics and get sleazy politicians elected. He’s in politics to give people of faith a greater role and voice in government and the Public Square. His primary interest is not electing Republicans–it’s helping Christians and the traditional family. That’s why some hate him–and love him–so much.
Nice response. I have to hand it to you, that was one of your better posts.
While I absolutely agree that something “fishy” was going on down in Florida, when it all panned out I thought to myself “this is the beginning of the end in 06”. Call it strange or weird, but I just knew we were going to loose one of the chambers. I also knew that Santorum was a goner. I promise you that that was a thought that I came up with all on my own (to whatever extent gut feelings belong to someone). And while the corruption, spending, and immigration issues may have played a part, I don’t think that values voters appreciate the government over extending its reach in any fashion, whether it benefits the left or the right. I believe that the Shiavo case was the right over extending the way that Democrats and the left usually do. That’s why I think it was the beginning of the end for 2006, but that doesn’t mean it was the only thing. Foley really did break our backs.
I’ll tell you what my major issue is with Dobson. I was really turned off when he said that Thompson either wasn’t Christian or wasn’t Christian enough. If you’re going to have your political differences, fine. But please don’t pass judgement as to who’s Christian and who’s not. Maybe it has something to do with my religous views, but I take such assumptions very personally.
I hope I responded in as nice as a manner as you responded to me.
I’ll tell ya Haners, the fact that Dobson questioned Thompson’s devotion and not Romney’s Mormonism should be encouraging to you. I’m not going to speak for Dobson–though you should know that Dobson was merely questioning Thompson’s devotion. Thompson was being sold to us as the next Reagan and Dobson was merely holding up a caution sign as if to say, “I wasn’t aware of his staunch evangelicalism. I wasn’t aware that he was a Christian.” It may or may not have been a dumb thing to say. When you’ve got an anti-religious media breathing down your neck I would be more careful in what I say. But that’s kind of the problem with the media. These days when you miscommunicate something the whole world knows about it and has misconstrued it every which way.
It all kind of points to what I said earlier. Dobson is foremost concerned with Christian things–not political things. So while we’re worried about a candidate’s stand on the war or the economy or whatever Dobson and Focus on the Family is mostly worried about what a candidate will do for Christian values.
Finally, Haners, I think you should give a lot more credit to the evangelical right about how they’ve treated Romney. Have you read Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?”? In it Southern Baptist ex-president Richard Land, Charles Chaput, and one of my favorites–Chuch Colsen all heap praises upon Romney and make clear that Americans should be electing a president and not Pope or Chief Pastor. When the left expected conservative Christians to assail Romney’s faith they have instead demonstrated a tremendous respect for America’s religious pluralism and separation between Church and State. Whether it’s Jim DeMint, Wayne Allard(who gave his support today), or the founder of the National Right to Life, evangelicals have shown a firm committment to traditional values while respecting those with different theologies.
To me, that shows just how vibrant, alive, and potent the religious conservative movement is.
“Finally, Haners, I think you should give a lot more credit to the evangelical right about how they’ve treated Romney.”
Trust me, I’m impressed. When I compare the experiences I had while serving a mission in the southern states, and how people react to Romney’s campaign I’m very impressed and frankly, surprised.
My apprehension is based on personal experience, not the treatment of Romney. In Washington state, an LDS state senator ran for congress in a primary and was leading in the polls. Her opponent ran an anti-mormon hit peice (did you know that Pam Roach is a MORMON?)and the LDS person lost. Our church opens a new building in Mississippi and the other churches paid for TV time to tell everyone in 30 second ads that we’re not christian. It’s the examples like that that make me nervous when someone says “that person isn’t Christian”. Maybe I’m paranoid or overly sensitive, but we can cover that later. 🙂 I just want you to get an idea where I’m coming from…..
As for what Dobson meant, I can’t say. If I ever get the chance to sit down and talk to him about it, I would love to clear it up. But if a religous leader is going to engage in politics, they need to be very clear when discussing their opinion in politics and their opinion in theological matters. If Romney were to blur the two, I think he would drop like a rock.
Again, I do want to emphasize that this has nothing to do with the treatment of evangelicals towards Romney. I have been very impressed by their attitude, and it wasn’t anything like what I expected.
but, I still think Dobson is the equivalent of the money-changers Jesus threw out of the temple. Warren brings some interesting things to bear, and I agree that when it comes to social justice and caring for the environment, we on the left have more in common with evangelicals than we think. Stewardship is a universal concept.
I also believe, as my childhood pastor put it, you cannot vote your way into heaven.
Liberals correctly point to the Terry Schiavo fiasco as proof positive of conservative hypocrisy…..smaller, less government is what we need except in matter of decision-making which belong to the family.
There’s that very rare occasion when I find myself uncomfortably in agreement with something that D.D.H.G.L.Q. said.
between Dobson and his forerunners Falwell and Robertson, on the one hand, and Warren and his forerunner, Billy Graham, is telling. Graham really cared about spreading the good word around, and was Christian in the true sense of the word. Dobson and his pet shill would probably do their souls some good by emulating Graham.