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November 11, 2006 03:17 PM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 73 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

You read the memo, everybody make nice.

Comments

73 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread

  1. Those of Flanders, Pearl Harbor, Wake Island, Midway, Guadalcanal, Kasserine Pass, Anzio, Bastogne, Iwo Jima, Korea, Vietnam, and both Iraq Wars, and all the other battles and actions I don’t have time to recall and type down.  This is the official day for those still living who proudly wore their nations uniform.  Don’t forget them on all the other days that come in the year.  Try to thank a Vet every day.

  2. How the hell did I end up left of center…

    From: http://www.cnn.com/2

    (CNN) — Brad Ellsworth opposes abortion and same-sex marriage and is an Indiana sheriff who very much believes in the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

    And he’s coming to Congress as a Democrat.

    Ellsworth is one of a crop of conservative and moderate Democrats who helped the party seize Congress in what has been viewed as a referendum on Bush, the Iraq war and corruption.

    1. Good that there are Democrats who feel that it’s important to hold to their convictions on important questions.  These are the same people who also care about providing all Americans with health care, protecting the working class from big corporate interests, and other liberal values.

      It’s funny how we peg people into their place as a liberal or a conservative and want to be done with it.  Ned Lamont, a small business owner who wanted to help reduce regulations on business, was pegged as the ultra-liberal radical trying to knock off Joe Lieberman; and now the incoming congress, who as much as anything else on guaranteeing access to health care and protecting social security, is being pegged as conservative.

      Great that people disagree.  Wonderful that fewer people are taking seriously the responsibility to party loyalty and toeing the line.  Now people need to stop seeing these things as abberations, and instead realize that there’s more to political issues than the left and right positions.

      1. People, do you care more about some political hack in your beloved party more than the country / community you live in?

        More and more people ARE waking up to the phony right / left paradigm.  Those who are still cought up in it are the dinosaurs.

        The winds of change are a come’n!  The Empire is one the run! LOL!

    2. Of the Right-wing noise machine to make themselves feel better.  Let’s see, of the 8 new Democratic US Senators, 7 of them are pro-choice.  But who is the only one you hear about – Casey the only anti-choice one in the bunch.  If they think he is conservative, well then I’ll take it.  And then you say what about Tester, he’s for gun rights.  Well, in addition to being pro-chocie, do you know what he said when Burns accused him of wanting weaken the Patriot Act?  Well, this bastion of conservatism said that no, he wanted to repeal it.  If you think these guys are conservatives, you’re either smoking something funny or you’re drinking the right-wing kool-aid.

      OF the approximately 40 new Representatives how many do you think are anit-choice???  Well, it’f four.  Who are the only four of the bunch you are hearing about???  Well its the three from Indiana and the quarterback from North Carolina.  Anyone ever hear of the guy who beat Ann Northrup in Kentucky?  Well or course not.  That’s because he he’s an avowed flaming self proclaimed liberal.  What about Ed Perlmutter??  A moderate right??  Well, that moderate group NARAL sent him the maximum PAC contribution within 24 hours after his victory in the primary. 

      Come on guys.  Don’t believe the noise machine.  It’s just a bunch of mularkey.  And, if any party has moved hard to the right, I would argue that its the Republican Party.  First, a whole slew of their moderates (Can you say Chaffee, Sue Kelley, Nancy Johnson, Tom Kean, and even to some extend DeWine) all lost.  Their moderate wing in Congress was about cut in half.  And the new guys they elected.  Well, they’re just downright scary.  Grant from Idaho and that guy from western Nebraska.  Well, they even got the endorsement and tons of money from  the Club for Growth and we all know how moderate that group is – like drown government in the bathtub.  So, it’s really the Republicans that have moved to the right and so far to the right that they can’t even come close to claiming to be in the mainstream.  If you think that’s good for the Republicans in the future, then, well you won’t even believe this anyway.

      Sorry, but the right-wing noise machine is just that, a bunch of noise.

      1. “Reid is more conservative than most other Democrats in the Senate. A practicing Mormon, he is staunchly against abortion rights — a stance that sometimes finds him working at cross purposes with others in his Democratic caucus.”

        Oh, and James Webb voted for Reagan.  Lieberman… well I’ll let you work that one out on your own.

        1. He was outlining the positions of new Democratic House and Senate members.  Reid has been a Senator for a long time.

          However, it is no skin off my nose if folks want to think these freshmen Dems are conservative.  More votes for the Dems next time . . .

            1. But in today’s practice, those of us who are “true” conservatives have been overwhelmed by the authoritarian conservatives of the religious right and the mantra or conservatism has been assumed by those who IMHO aren’t conservative at all.

              1. and maybe you are mixing up “conservative” and something else.  In a post earlier you seemed to be supportive of very progressive positions on social/”moral” issues. 

                How is it that you consider yourself a true conservative ?  What about you makes that characterization accurate ?  Is it your foundational beliefs about the size and role of government ? 

                If that’s it, then I understand why you claim the label, and why you dispute the conservatism of people marching under that banner.  I’d say you’re technically correct, but the label has  come to mean something else in practice.

                1. I’m a conservative in the smallest kind of government possible kind of way.  This use of government to enforce our moral values on others (such as Schaivo and abortion and gay stuff) isn’t conservative at all but a kind of authoritarianism or even a theocracy based philosophy which is now being called “conservative” by the mainstream media.  In terms of Barry Goldwater small government conservatism, it isn’t conservative at all.

                2. …such as gays serving openly in the military.  Does that mean that the John Birch Society is going to posthumously revoke his membership card? 
                    Smaller govt. includes keeping govt. out of people’s bedrooms…..

          1. if Ed Perlmutter really campaigns on a pro-dope platform in ’08, especially in a district that already went (R) twice.  Doug Lamborn will have better chances of survival.  Should be enormously entertaining. 

            1. Because when CD-7 went Republican it went by such a huge margin that combined it wasnt greater than Perlmutter’s margin of victory. The hilarity that would be a Lamborn run in CD-7 would be awesome.

              1. Lamborn’s propects in CD-5.  My suspicion is the ELP county (R)s will hold a fund-raiser/lottery to pick his primary opponent, probably in Feb or March.  Perlmutter won’t be that lucky.  He gets to run against a moderate (R), and keep in mind in that district considered BWB a moderate.  I don’t think they will be impressed with the NARAL endorsement. 

                1. The NARAL endorsement was this time and this district is filled with pro-choice Republicans and unaffiliates.  Remember that every house and Senate member in the statehouse in this district (with the exception of a small portion of south Lakewood and South Aurora) is a Democrat.  All are pro-choice and many have won their elections with siginficant NARAL help.  In addition, how in the world is a moderate Republican ever going to win the nomination?  They just simply don’t win them any more.  Remember Kiki Traylor?  If you know anything about Kopp, you know that guy is nothing short of a nut case, the most right of the right.  Remember, God told him he was going to win???  Come on.

                2. EPC is going to have a lottery to determine who gets to primary Lamborn? That is an affront to democracy.

                  BWB won in 200 with how many votes? Something like 121 if I remember correctly. He then was reelceted by how many? something like 1000? People in that district may consider him a moderate, but they clearly were not too enamored with him. Perlmutter won by how much this time? I cant remember, but I am sure it was greater than  1121. If a moderate R runs against him, at worst he may lose a few voters. Incumbancy is a wonderful thing, and I bet you dollars to donuts that Perlmutter will take the prize in ’08.

              2. …..remember when Pat Miller ran against David Skaggs back in ’94?  Skaggs blew her away in the year of Newt Gingrich and the Contract with America. 
                  Of course, Bob Greenlee came within one percentage point of beating Mark Udall in ’96.  Funny what can almost happen when a RINO runs in a competitive district. 

  3. Courageous (and intelligent) members of both the Republican and Democratic parties have been trying to get the point across to thier fellow party members to vote OUT all incumbents.  Here is a good example why such action is necessary.

    Conyers Toes Party Line: No Impeachment
    Something Is Extremely ‘Rotten In The State Of Denmark’
    By Steve Watson infowars.net

    The latest Democrat “saviour” to flip flop 180 degrees in light of their victory is Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich. Presumed to become chairman of the House Judiciary Committee in January, Conyers today said that impeachment of President Bush “is off the table.”

    “In this campaign, there was an orchestrated right-wing effort to distort my position on impeachment,” Conyers said in a statement released by his Judiciary Committee spokesman. “The incoming speaker (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.) has said that impeachment is off the table. I am in total agreement with her on this issue: Impeachment is off the table.”

    Conyers seems to have forgotten that last December he laid out the grounds for impeachment in a 350 page long report called “The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Cover-ups in the Iraq War” and later updated to add “illegal domestic surveillance.”

    The Constsitution in crisis by Conyers
    http://www.house.gov

    It’s business as usual with the neo-cons. 

    If you want ‘REAL’ results real people have to run against these globalists period.  They can’t kill everybody. 

    Vote out all incumbents!  As soon as the voting machine mess is straightened out of course.

    1. Impeachment would be political suicide for the Dems.  Many repubs admit that even though they got at Clinton, they were also damaged by the process. 

      IMO it is better to let the Fool stand at the head of an ideologically bancrupt party.  There is only two years of gaurenteed Dem control.  Impeachment would take a year or more and the only thing it would accomplish is dividing the electorate and putting Cheney in charge:( 

      The priorities should be to investigate ALL of the incompitance, mismanagement, and lies that the Republicans used to retain power.  They should implicate the whole party as accomplices of an arrogant, greedy, and failed regime.

      I think that we will see a steady stream of scandall for the next two years as Waxman investigates the last six years of Republican mis-rule.

      This is much better in the long run than impeachment. 

      1. If the Dems had the guts to go forward and impeach it would take down about a third of their own party as well and that would be a good thing.

        1. Period, end of story.  Republicans ignored the will of the people, and look where it got them.  If people reverse course and support impeachment, then the Dems will do it.  Count on it.

          That said, Dems can certainly spread a little sunshine on the question of how we got into Iraq in the first place.  If they happen to uncover facts proving Bush habitually lied to the people, then the people might support impeachment, but don’t put the cart before the horse.  I think the people want ACCOUNTABILITY more than anything, and this is one way Dems can deliver it.

          The people might think he’s incompetent and tin-eared, and maybe even a misleader, but they haven’t quite bought into the “Bush deliberately lied to us to go to war” meme yet.

          Here’s a Washington Post poll conducted 4/06.  Bush’s popularity was already in the toilet at this point:

          Democratic Congressman John Conyers has called for creation of a committee to look into impeaching Bush and removing him from office. Do you think Congress should or should not impeach Bush and remove him from office?

          Should impeach Should not impeach No opinion
          4/9/06 33% 66% 1

          1. Get a little bit of information out of such sources as sibel edmunds or have a real investigation into wiretaps, etc and then lets see what people want.

        2. Would be enormously satisfying and political suicide.

          Sure, we might have President Pelosi for a few months.  But the Dems would not get legislation passed to show the country what they can do: govern. 

          Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war.  Being able to see that is a mark of maturity.

  4. The rest of the story By Paul Harvey Conveniently Forgotten Facts.
    Back in 1969 a group of Black Panthers decided that a fellow Black Panther named Alex Rackley needed to die.
    Rackley was suspected of disloyalty. Rackley was first tied to a chair. Once safely immobilized, his friends tortured him for hours by, among other things, pouring boiling water on him.
    When they got tired of torturing Rackley, Black Panther member Warren Kimbo took Rackley outside and put a bullet in his head.
    Rackley’s body was later found floating in a river about 25 miles north of New Haven, Connecticut.
    Perhaps at this point you are curious as to what happened to these Black Panthers?
    In 1977, just eight years later, only one on the killers was still in jail. The shooter, Warren Kimbo, managed to get a scholarship to Harvard and became good friends with none other than Al Gore. He later became an assistant Dean at an Eastern Connecticut State College.
    Erica Huggins was the women who served the Panthers by boiling the water for Mr Rackley’s torture. Some years later Ms Huggins was elected to a California school board.
    How in the world do you think these killers got off so easy? Maybe it was in some part due to the efforts of two people who came to the defense of the Panthers.
    These two people actually went so far as to shut down Yale University with demonstrations in defense of the accused Black Panthers during their trial. One of these people was none other than Bill Lan Lee.
    Mr Lee, or Mr Lan Lee, as the case may be, isn’t a college Dean. He isn’t a member of a California school board. He is now head of the United States Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, appointed by none ohter than Bill Clinton.
    The other Panther defender was, like Lee, a radical law student at Yale University at the time. She is now known as the “smartest woman in the world”. She is none other than the Democratic Senator from the state of New York—-our former First Lady, the incredible Hillary Rodham Clinton.
    And now, as Paul Harvey said; “You know the rest of the story”.
    This is verified true by SNOPES.COM

    1. Gecko writes:
      And now, as Paul Harvey said; “You know the rest of the story”.
      This is verified true by SNOPES.COM

      you know, a little research goes a long way … this story is not “verified true”, it is specifically debunked at snopes.com; Paul Harvey didn’t write it, and neither Clinton (nee Rodham) nor Lee got were materially involved in the acquittal; just go read this snopes.com story yourself

      choice quotes:
      Neither Mr. Lee nor Senator Clinton “defended” the Panthers in the legal sense implied here. Bill Lee wasn’t a lawyer, or even a law student; he was simply another Yale undergraduate who had no involvement in the Black Panthers’ trial. Hillary Rodham (as she was known then) wasn’t a lawyer then, either. She was a Yale law student, and like many of her politically-minded fellow law students who saw the latest “Trial of the Century” taking place right in their back yard, she took advantage of an opportunity to be involved in a minor, peripheral way by organizing other students to help the American Civil Liberties Union monitor the trial for civil rights violations. In any case, her tangential participation in the trial in no way helped “free” the two Black Panthers tried for the murder of Alex Rackley: they went free because the state failed to sufficiently prove its case, and after several days of deliberation the jury was unable to reach a verdict. The charges were dimissed, and the state declined to retry either Bobby Seale or Ericka Huggins.

      and

      Update:  Versions of the e-mailed denunciation headed “Paul Harvey’s ‘The rest of the story'” began circulating on the Internet in June 2000. This header plus a comment at the end of the text (“And now, as Paul Harvey says, you know the rest of the story”) caused some to believe Paul Harvey had read this piece (or a shorter version of it) on the air. Paul Harvey’s people confirm he has never broadcast the Panthers and Hillary Clinton story.

    2. Before you post something that is as extremely unlikely to be true as this is, it is worth taking a few minutes to go to Snopes *yourself* and check it out.  The fact that someone emails you this type of nonsense and *says* they checked it out on Snopes doesn’t mean they did. Both the meail and the claim of verification could be equally untrue.

      1. Why in the world someone would post such a RIDICULOUS story and then go so far as to say it’s “verified by SNOPES” when it’s actually DEBUNKED there is a mystery.

        You’ve destroyed your credibility. Was it good for you?

        1. Like “America was more prosperous at the turn of the century because there were no taxes.”

          He’ll never be convinced otherwise — it doesn’t matter how many how many history books he opens telling him otherwise, because history books are written by “Liberuls”.

          Most reasonable people realize he’s whacked, so maybe it’s best just to let nonsensical outbursts like this slide into the bitbucket of obscurity.

      1. I do apologize for what I wrote.

        This was sent to me by my father in law from New Mexico.
        I do not know how to copy and paste so I just wrote it down as it was sent to me, word for word.
        Then I went riding my scoot with my wife.
        It wasn’t until late last night that I pulled up the web site and relized that it was mostly all fabricated.
        For that I lost all faith in my in-laws, and for that I apologize to everyone here.

        You all know that I am very conservative and we have little to be happy. I should have read the web site first. If I did, I wouldn’t have written that stuff.

        So again to all,
        I am sorry. I do not lie on purpose.

        GECKO

    3. Is there any reason why you pull out such obvious trash about democrats from 7 year ago? Why not stick to something that is true, say Reagan’s lies about Iran/Contra or even about deal with the Iranians that screwed the hostages? Or how about Nixons lies? Or more current, how about W. lies about the war, the deficits, his military past, his drug past, etc? Or simply that Clinton lied about doing an adult intern? At least that would be true.

      Why make up trash or steal from others where it is easily verified by google and even snopes as being incorrect? When are you going to take responsibility for your own actions?

      1. It’s all over the place.  As a former Republican, I get this stuff all the time from my friends, many of them normal, rational people.  Yet, they believe this stuff and never check it out.  My two right-wingnut brothers are the worst.  I’ve finally taken the tack of challenging every such thing that comes over the internet to me.  It’s so easy to find the “real story” and it pisses them off so bad.  But, if we don’t spread the truth, they will continue to spread these lies.  I swear, there must be a back room somewhere in Virginia where these stupid things with only a grain of truth are twisted into this crap.

  5. ideological extremists often times get frustrated, mellow out, and join more mainstream political parties, whether they be left-wing nuts or right-wing nuts……and your point, Aesop, is?

  6. Hillary also went on to become a leading private attorney of the infamous Carlyle Group for a short period.  While some Clinton boot lickers  poo-pooh this,  the Clinton’s ties to the Carlyle Group are notorious.  Just type into any search engine Clinton’s very own Arthur Levitt, Jr + Carlyle Group and all you need to know will pop up all over the place.

    Who / what is the Carlyle group you ask?
    More or less a bank / military contracting company created in 1987 by perhaps the Rothchilds or the Harriman cirlcles.
    It’s the folks who hired Bush Sr. and James Baker and to run it.
    The company is tied to the company (in Fort Detrick, MD)  who made the anthrax of the anthrax scare.  It’s the company deeply in bed with the bin Ladens. It created the now famous al-CIA’a ahh.. I mean al-Qaida when they were the ‘good guys’ wearing the whites hats fighting Russians in Afganistan.

    Hillary Clinton, Black Panthers the rest of the story?

    Not hardly.  The story continues…

    1. I suppose you checked that out on Snopes as well…

      So the Carlyle Group was “perhaps” created by the Rothschilds? What the heck does that mean? “Perhaps” it was created by George Washington, Abraham Lincoln or Mother Teresa.

    2. then you just told me she should be running on the Republican ticket. I KNOW members of the Carlyle Group, I KNOW people who can claim to have been in the infamous Carlyle meeting of 9/11/2001. (You do realize the Carlyle Group manages a chunk of the Bin Laden family money, yes?) NONE of them would EVER vote for a “Librul” – they are people who fund “Club for Growth”. Once again, if you want to tie people together to hurt them you should make sure that the connection makes ANY sense. Using the Carlyle Group as a “librul” boogie man is about as logical as tying Hillary (whom I would never vote for if she were running for president so don’t accuse me of being a Hillary lover) to the John Birch Society to show how liberal she is.

  7. In Denver County voter turnout was depressed by the vote centers and long lines. In Pueblo County the Clerk mailed out thousands of ballots late or perhaps not at all.
    Like him or hate him, Ken Gordon got screwed if he ends up losing this race.

  8. my favorite quote this week come from Lisl Auman

    “Now he’s running for governor.”

    Shaking her head, while watching old video footage of then-Denver District Attorney Bill Ritter defending his case against her.

    This is how Ritter spends our money and views justice.

    You voted for it now live with it!
    I will just be there to rub you nose it it every chance I get!

  9. The technical quality is shaky–I am not a professional Photoshopper and don’t even play one on TV.  But the idea made me laugh, so I thought I would give it a go and then share.

  10. Our national psychosis of accepting political lying crumpled to a sickening new low last week as the President repeatedly lied in his press conference about comity with majority Democrats, even as he gave them the finger behind his back by sending John Bolton?s nomination back to the Senate.

    The buzz in the blogs was that Bush admitted right to reporters that he was and is a rank liar, almost an irritating development as the rare mainstream media reports after that incredible press conference Bush is a liar and actually used the word, l-i-e-d.

    Well? Bush is breathing, for chrissakes, of course he?s lying, he?s been lying since the Gore debates about social security while Gore had to take it and the media giggled that ?sighs matter.? Anything else? Had enough?

    Bush admits it right to their faces because he?s been rankly lying about anything and everything ever since he ran for president and never, not once, paid a penalty for it. Think about it carefully?for anyone else a public admission of lying would be absolutely devastating on a professional and personal level.

    Sorry, dear, I lied about sleeping with that perky admin half your age. No big, right? Yeah, boss, I said I delivered all those parts when I actually drank beer for two hours. So?

    The media is NOT liberal…and Republicans have a lot of work to do. NOT DEMOCRATS…REPUBLICANS!

    1. … when he told the press he’d be stickiing with Rumsfeld

      then on the 8th he made it clear that he had already decided Rumsfeld would go, regardless of the election result, and that he had flat-out lied about his commitment to Rumsfeld in order to keep it out of play during the election; the press has reported this fairly widely in passing, sometimes using as harsh a term as “misled”, but few people seem to have noticed

      or maybe this kind of lie — deliberate, admitted and intended to influence an election — is okay?

  11. While a bare majority of 51 percent called the Democrats’ victory “a good thing,” even more said they were concerned about some of the actions a Democratic Congress might take, including 78 percent who were somewhat or very concerned that it would seek too hasty a withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

    Another 69 percent said they were concerned that the new Congress would keep the administration “from doing what is necessary to combat terrorism,” and two-thirds said they were concerned it would spend too much time investigating the administration and Republican scandals.
    At some the American people need to grow up. If they aren’t ready for us to leave Iraq, then fine: stay in Iraq. More American soldiers will die for no reason, the civil war will get worse, we will be directly responsible for breeding even more terrorists, and we’ll probably have a draft sometime over the next two years. But if that’s what it will take for the American people to learn that history is not without consequences, then so be it. I see no reason that Democrats should fall on their swords so that the American people and the Republicans can avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

    Oh yeah, and we’ll also give police the right to take Americans away in the middle of the night without a warrant, and waterboard their husbands, wives and children – in the name of public safety, of course. Then after 20,000 or 30,000 Americans are missing, and probably dead (in Argentina, they used to drug political prisoners and drop them from helicopters into the sea – you see, the authorities simply had to keep the country safe), the American people can ask themselves what went wrong.

    We are paying for our citizens’ ignorance of history. Perhaps they need to learn the hard way, by giving them what they want and letting them suffer the consequences. At some point, it may be the only way to fix the problem. Otherwise, we fall on our sword for them, and they vote us out in two years and continue the carnage in Iraq and on our civil liberties.

    h/t Americablog

  12. “There needs [to] be protection…against the tyranny of of the prevailing opinion and feeling; against the tendency of society to impose…its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development, and, if possible, prevent the formation, of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compels all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own.”

  13. Hmm.  Just got a call from Zogby.  They are doing a poll on the reasons for the failure of Ref I, and passage of 43.  Long poll; about fifty questions or so.

    What I most disagreed with was the framing of the questions.  Whoever wrote the poll doesn’t get out much beyond hardline extremist positions.  Never in any of the reasons for supporting or opposing I/43 were the most important reason for my vote: that the government has no right to exercise restrictions on a religious sacrament.  I guess that means people really just don’t get it.

    1. I got polled a few times before the election.  I’d say at least half of the questions and canned responses did not fit me.  Many were shallow. 

      I understand that the pollsters want something that they can just score by adding the columns, but there is a reason college entry tests have a written part to the exame. 

      To flesh things out, to..uh, parse.

      1. 303 w. Colfax.  Election Commission is not in the Webb building.

        But don’t hold your breath for final counts.

        As I write this it is 7:30pm Sunday night and they still have 10K absentee ballots to count, plus the provisionals which they cannot process until the absentee’s are counted.

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