Weekend Open Thread

“Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men.”

–Thomas Huxley

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62 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Question that has been bugging me. It's illegal to go out in public without wearing pants or a skirt. And no one screams that this is a violation of our personal freedoms.

    So how is requiring wearing a mask any different? It's just requiring covering a different part of one's anatomy.

     

    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

      I could have a lot of fun with this question, David, but our kwtree already accuses me of political incorrectness.  devil

    • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

      A big shout-out to Dave’s mom who concluded her 30yr tenure in the Hawaii legislature yesterday. In true form one of her final acts included a floor speech on hemp – an issue she’s been advocating the entirety of her time in Honolulu.  Heartfelt gratitude for her leadership; she is a class act.  Mahalo, RepT. 

  2. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Suggestion for a DNC political ad.

    Run an ad asking the Republicans in the Senate and President Trump to work with them on passing legislation to resolve this crisis. Point out that the House has advanced legislation that will save lives, reduce the spread, bring back jobs, make schools safe, and lead us to re-opening sports & bars. All the emotional triggers.

    And say that you will make any reasonable compromise to make this happen. Even if the Republicans are only willing to make some things better. That your goal right now is there is so much we can do, let's make things better.

    And then end with a shot of 15 or so Democratic federal officeholders/candidates saying "we're the Democratic Party and we approve this message."

    For the ad in each state, that group should include the key candidates in that state, but also include others from across the country. Truly make it from the party in whole.

    I think and ad run like that could boost the generic Democratic vote a ton. Makes it very clear where the fault is.

    • kwtreekwtree says:

      From this blog to the DNC’s ear… Maybe they can tell the power brokers in the DSCC.

      DSCC leaders have shown that they’re pretty tone deaf. The streets are exploding with awareness and sensitivity to racial and gender inequality. Quality candidates of color and other diverse qualities are running for office in unprecedented numbers. The pandemic has highlighted the need for universal health care as never before, and the planet is making clear that climate change is an existential threat for many forms of life, including humans in vulnerable areas.

      However, the DSCC has guaranteed that, in Colorado and other states, we will have older, white, male, moderate, least-common-denominator, no policy-shakeup candidates heading up the Democratic ticket.

      However, your idea might appeal to the DNC.

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        "However, the DNC has guaranteed that, in Colorado and other states, we will have older, white, male, moderate, least-common-denominator, no policy-shakeup candidates heading up the Democratic ticket."

        So are we supposed to set aside the results of the primaries in order to nominate hard-left, non-male people of color?

        I realize you are still happy about Angela Williams and Elizabeth Warren but get over it. They had their chances but they lost. 

        And once again, La Pomposa, you use the DNC as your boogey man. I seem to recall that after 2016, Bernie and his bros significantly re-wrote the rules for the presidential nomination contest. The system is still rigged even again Bernie demanded and got his changes? It is always something, isn't it? Can't you accept the fact that people are not buying what the LWNJs are peddling? 

        By the way, the DNC happens to be chaired by a person of color. How do you explain his role in rigging the system to enable only old white men to win primaries?

        • kwtreekwtree says:

          It was the DSCC. My mistake, and I corrected it.

          As for the DNC and the Obama / Sanders rules, those were or are in the process of being rolled back . The moderates won. Which means that the corporatists won.

          The survival of the planetary ecosphere, of people living on coasts, of people without health care in America are important to me. We have candidates at the top of the ticket who will promote the least offensive, tweaking-around-the edges remedies possible, that will not rock any CEO boats.

          Apparently, you support that agenda. We disagree. Leave it at that.

           

          • Conserv. Head Banger says:

            Really? Who cares right now about the far left not getting its wishes or that “corporatists are now running the show.”

            That’s all a distraction to the real issue which is getting rid of Trump in November, and as many of his deep state minions that can be bagged by Dems, independents and never-Trump Republicans. In other words, patriotic Americans come together to get the job done.

            All the rest, at this time, is just a side-show that benefits Trump.

            • Diogenesdemar says:

              Because Ttump is just the logical outcome of the corporatist’s wet dream.  (Ok, their wettest dream would probably be a somewhat more polished, less buffoonish Ttump, but, WTF he’s got their policies right even those his messaging has all the sophistication of a tantruming three year-old?)

              A Ttump by any other name would still be orange destruction . . .

              ”Who cares?” . . ., indeed.

              • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                Like I said, Diogenesdemar, argue about it after November 3.

                • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

                  And that is about enough of that Nov.3rd shit, if you don’t mind too much, please, my good man. Why on earth should Dio restrain himself from telling the truth? Will it be less true later? I have a different suspicion .

                  The “Conservative” dream is to have the Orange King hang on a cross for them, so everyone will think he was the problem. Once he is gone, a government of “conservative” Democrats will fix everything by changing nothing.

                  No…T***p didn’t  start this. He was the tool used by the powerful and completely corrupt funding consortium that is the GOP. The Conservative brand owns this.

                  Republicans control the mechanisms to fix this in very short order. The Orange Destruction did not get this far on his own and will continue only as long as he is aided and abetted by McConnell and Co. He was adopted by the “conservative” party. If you asked Tom Cotton, “Are you a conservative?”, what would he say? How about Susan Collins? Do you get to decide what “conservative” means? Perhaps you should re-evaluate your user name? 

                  You cannot detach the responsibility for Trump from the “conservative” brand. He is carrying their water for them. Now that his bucket is full of holes, his enablers want to point elsewhere and deny their culpability.

                  This conversation needs to continue apace. The fact that “Conservatives” want to blame it on The Cheetolini and turn their fickle support to the Dems is just more evidence of their craven willingness to win at any cost.

                   

                  • Diogenesdemar says:

                    Wow!

                    Long day of nonstop chores and I’m really tired; I was gonna’ just let that foolishness go, or maybe try to muster up a half-hearted, “Meh,” or “That’s not what your sister told me,” or “get bent, whydontcha’?,” or something, but yours is so much better.  Gracias.  wink

                  • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                    “Why on earth should Dio restrain himself from telling the truth…..”  It’s the truth as he sees it. Others may not agree. 

                    Here’s the basic problem: what does the far left, Woke cancel culture, have in common with the far right, “pro-life,” uterus control crowd.

                    Answer: neither tolerates any dissent. For the extremes, the 1st amendment no longer applies unless it’s THEIR SPEECH.

                    People like George Floyd and Elijah McClain are martyrs to the cause and belief that the US Constitution applies to everyone.

                    Do I think the country should keep up statues and other symbols of treason committing confederates? No, but let the people figure it out, as happened in the Mississippi legislature that voted to get a new state flag.

                    Here’s a challenge for you progressive folks that like unions. One solution I’ve seen to deal with police brutality is to abolish police unions because they seem to be enablers of bad cops. What say you?

                    • kwtreekwtree says:

                      Baloney, CHB.

                      You’re not being suppressed– you’re being disagreed with- and respectfully, too. Nobody’s insulted your intelligence, character, or sobriety. 
                       

                      Why would you think that your arguments that only moderates are electable should be the last word on the subject?
                       

                      If you want liberals and progressives to “shut up”, then bring on better, more compelling arguments.

                      As you did about civil rights martyrs, statues and police unions.

                      And this will shock you, but I agree with you on those last three points. McClain and Floyd were martyrs, it’s better to remove offensive monuments legally, and police unions perpetuate and enable brutality, all too often.

                    • Diogenesdemar says:

                      One solution I’ve seen to deal with police brutality is to abolish police unions because they seem to be enablers of bad cops. What say you?

                      You looking for that answer now, . . .

                      . . . or after November 3rd???

                    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

                      Lemme get this straight …

                      You are against people who try to shut down dialog and not allow dissent.  That seems pretty closely related to the expanded sense of "free speech" that is part of a classical liberal philosophical tradition.

                      And then you ask about abolishing police unions "because they seem to be enablers of bad cops." Which would seem to me to be easily grouped in with those who want to shut down Planned Parenthood's ability to counsel women and those who want to shut down III%ers or the KKK.

                      ALL of those moves are poor substitutes for more speech and more associations.  At least from my fairly extreme point of view about the value of discourse and argument, and the institutions and norms which make it possible.

                      PS — if the unions truly are enablers of bad cops, argue that in a court of law and make them a part of the settlement for damages done by those bad cops.  Or go after the "corrupt organizations" with a RICO charge.

                    • kwtreekwtree says:

                      CHB:

                      Progressives defeating Republicans in 2018:

                      Katie Hill (resigned later because of "outing" and revenge porn)

                      Katie Porter Awesome explainer, pointed cross-examiner, protege of Elizabeth Warren's

                      Elizabeth Warren herself defeated R Scott Brown

                      Jena Griswold Colorado's secretary of state defeated Republican Wayne Williams

                      Jason Crow defeated Mike Coffman in CD6

                      Deb Haaland, NM

                      Sharice Davids, KS

                      Keith Ellison, former Congressman, now MN AG

                      Stacey Abrams would have won her race for Governor except for blatant voter suppression. (Yes, R&R, it's a thing).

                      There are plenty more instances of progressives helping to elect moderates, as we will in Colorado in 2020. It would be great if then the moderates didn't accuse the progressives of "whining" or being "unrealistic".

                      -If we weren't seen as the stepchild whose votes are needed to win, but whose policies are ignored or given lip service at best.

                       

                  • The realistThe realist says:

                    Well said, Duke.

                    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                      @kwtree: how many progressives unseated Republicans in the 2018 mid-terms? Not many. It was mostly the centrist types that took the House back. As I’ve already said, win first on Nov. 3 and then sort things out. Duke doesn’t like that. And that’s OK.

                      Some of you have visited The Bulwark dot com to see how my kind of conservative thinks. There also is The Lincoln Project, Republicans for the Rule of Law, Republican Voters against Trump. 

                      As for Trump and his US Senate enablers being “conservative”……considering the massive budget deficits, other than what is needed now to save people and the economy……. not really. And there is plenty of sleaze and corruption in The CARES Act. Trump’s family and corporate cronies getting money; the Catholic Church getting our money so they can pay the judgements in pedophile priest cases, and so on. 

                      p.s. as for me being “shocked,” the only thing I can think of that would be a surprise is Moderatus coming out against Trump.

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            Yeah, kwtree, far better to nominate uberleft losers who will get 1 pct of the vote and stay pure, like your whatzername senate candidate did! 

            But take heart.  Lauren Boebert ain’t male, ain’t old, ain’t moderate,  so she carries your colors in the third, right?

      • gertie97 says:

        kwtree, to change anything requires that you first get elected. You need to get that done first. Whining doesn't win.

        • Diogenesdemar says:

          yes
          Congressman Senator President Martin Luther King, Jr. couldn’t have said it any better . . . 

          . . . s/b maybe, “to change anything requires that you [start electing people who see a need, and have the willingness, to change things]”? Otherwise, all you’re doing is putting out fluffier deck chair pillows on the Titanic . . .

        • MADCO says:

          ^^.

          We got a winner.

        • kwtreekwtree says:

          gertie, I respect your opinions and postings, but milquetoast moderates are not the only people who can get elected. Joe Neguse, Jared Polis, Jena Griswold, Jason Crow*, to name a few, all got elected as proud progressives.

          The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time. (Harry Truman, 1952)

          Authenticity matters.

          At this moment in history, the voices of the marginalized and the disregarded are coming to the front as never before. And they are winning elected offices, and will be the future "establishment" of the Democratic party.

          "Whining doesn't win"? If every time a liberal / progressive complains about corporate candidates, you consider it "whining", how do you characterize a Hickenlooper or a Biden constantly taking potshots at the left candidates:

          "I'm not a socialist! I'm not going to upset the apple cart! No Green New Deal, no Medicare for All from me! You 1%ers don't have to worry about me raising your taxes!"

          Back to David's original post on this thread: I'd love to see his idea carried out with a real representation of all of the diverse ideas and perspectives in Congress. Include AOC and the Squad. Put Bernie and Liz front and center. All of the different caucuses.

          DNC could still say that they're willing to make any "reasonable compromise" to get bills passed, but the presence of those you call the "whiners" would reassure constituents that the changes would be meaningful, and not just window dressing or study committees.

          *Crow ran as a moderate, triangulating against Levi Tilleman, but needed the support of progressives to win, so started talking a more progressive line.

          • RepealAndReplace says:

            "At this moment in history, the voices of the marginalized and the disregarded are coming to the front as never before."

            Los descamisado are going to start storming the Casa Rosada

            I've seen this show before. We all know how it ends.

      • DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

        I supported Warren (financially as well as with my vote). And I think part of her problem was that she's female and if so that sucks big time.

        But we've had fair primaries on the Democratic side. With an amazingly varied set of choices. Yes it's still primarily white males, especially for president and the senate. But every year on the Democratic side it gets a little more female and a little less white.

        Change takes time. A fair amount of that required time is old people dying off and younger people starting to vote. You want your perfect world – get people age 18 – 30 to vote at the same rate as people 60+. That would be a game changer.

    • ParkHill says:

      I wonder why the Lincoln Project produces ads that are an order of magnitude better than ads produced by the Democratic Party. 

      As the main administrative body for the Democrats, he DNC should be running neck and neck with the Lincoln Project.

      There is this weird fear of confrontation or something that causes them to pull their punches. Fear of losing moderates? fear of Blue Dogs losing in White working class regions?

      • MADCO says:

        I think maybe R's know how to crush R's better than Ds.

        • gertie97 says:

          I've been exposed to the Republican campaign weenies (as well as the Democratic ones) through many campaigns over the years. Skilled operatives abound, but very few have the ability to go right for the balls of the prey. Most of those are Republicans. They are not burdened with concepts such as ethics, good taste or trying to stick to at least a few actual facts. More of the Democratic operatives are so cursed.

          What's fascinating to me about the operatives doing the killer campaign spots for the Lincoln Project is that those same people got our current Republican senators elected. Now they've turned on the very people who fed them so well.
           

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Nice idea … could easily be done even without a shot of a group of Democrats … just do the Zoom panel thing, with House & Senate leaders on the top row, then Senators and House members or candidates in individual shots below.  Tag on a generic contact website

      With your simple script and a bit of editing, this could be made in about 10 minutes of candidate time, arranged to fit into their schedule. And then, it would be customized to each district, adding or subtracting some of the panels.

      • DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

        Yeah, I think if done right it gets across that the Democrats are trying to address all of our big problems and the Republicans are standing in the way refusing to do anything.

        If people in late October blame the Republicans in general for the fact that their kids are still attending school via Zoom from home, that family members have died, that the Republicans refuse to address racial inequality – well then even Doug Jones could win.

        I think the Democratic party could destroy the Republicans with something like this – done right. Make the election a referendum on Trump and the Senate Republicans standing there shouting "nothing will pass."

  3. davebarnesdavebarnes says:

    So, Fat Donnie™ cancelled his rally in Portsmouth, NH because "of the weather" (tropical storm, rain, wind, etc.).

    The current weather in Portsmouth is partly cloudy with light wind, no rain. The forecast for the rest of the day is the same.

    Somebody (Brad Parscale, perhaps) was clearly worried that only 3 people were going to show up.
    Sad. Not!

  4. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    I know y’all will be shocked.  Ok, just kidding  (and then David Duke began promoting TC as Trump’s VP).  This is why we can’t have nice things. 

    Paging Moddy…clean-up on Aisle 45. 

    Tucker Carlson’s top writer resigns after secretly posting racist and sexist remarks in online forum

    Just this week, the writer, Blake Neff, responded to a thread started by another user in 2018 with the subject line, “Would u let a JET BLACK congo n****er do lasik eye surgery on u for 50% off?” Neff wrote, “I wouldn’t get LASIK from an Asian for free, so no.” (The subject line was not censored on the forum.) On June 5, Neff wrote, “Black doods staying inside playing Call of Duty is probably one of the biggest factors keeping crime down.” On June 24, Neff commented, “Honestly given how tired black people always claim to be, maybe the real crisis is their lack of sleep.” On June 26, Neff wrote that the only people who care about changing the name of the NFL’s Washington Redskins are “white libs and their university-‘educated’ pets.”

  5. harrydobyharrydoby says:

    For the record, Mitt Romney is not pulling any more punches

     

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      I’ll take that bet!

      Can’t wait to hear the reports when Mittens discovers that people are people, too . . . 

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      As best I can tell from today's reading, one additional Republican Senator has criticized the commutation:  Sen. Pat Toomey, PA

      Lindsay Graham issued a statement supporting the commutation. 

      Somehow, Sen. Gardner hasn't gotten around to making a comment.

  6. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    Book deal in 3…2…1

    Roger Stone: President Trump 'saved my life' by commuting prison sentence

    Stone said he will celebrate his freedom by writing a book about his experience and also helping to "exonerate" former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

  7. davebarnesdavebarnes says:

    'I thought this was a hoax': Patient in 30s dies after attending 'COVID party'

    SAN ANTONIO, Texas (WOAI/KABB) – A patient in their 30s died from the coronavirus after attending what's being called a "COVID party," according to a San Antonio health official.

    Chief Medical Officer of Methodist Healthcare Dr. Jane Appleby said the idea of these parties is to see if the virus is real.

    "This is a party held by somebody diagnosed by the COVID virus and the thought is to see if the virus is real and to see if anyone gets infected," Dr. Appleby said.

    According to Appleby, the patient became critically ill and had a heartbreaking statement moments before death.

    "Just before the patient died, they looked at their nurse and said 'I think I made a mistake, I thought this was a hoax, but it's not,'" Appleby said.

    • RepealAndReplace says:

      How is this possible?

      Didn't no less a medical authority than Dan Patrick tell us that only the old people would die from this  disease  hoax, and they should be happy to get out of the way to help their grandchildren enjoy a vibrant economy?

      Who could possibly have seen this coming?

  8. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Anyone else here watch Will Farrell's Eurovision movie? It was really good. And a friend of mine had 2 seconds on screen!

    Also someone asked me how over the top the movie was from reality. It wasn't, at all. Very realistic.

  9. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    Please, please, pleeeeease let this be Louis Ghomert, Rafael Cruz and a goat. 

    Get in your bibles and get your minds right. Things will never be the same.

    Ghislaine Maxwell 'has tapes of two prominent US politicians having sex with minors' and boasted of 'owning' powerful people, former friend and jewel thief claims

    Ghislaine Maxwell 'has tapes of two prominent US politicians having sex with minors' and boasted of 'owning' powerful people, according to a former friend.

  10. lilyflower says:

     I was just reading that Trump raised the possibility of selling hurricane devastated Puerto Rico to his Secretary of Homeland Security in late 2017, the New York Times report.

    This man is dangerous and we need to come out in droves to vote for Biden.

    • kwtreekwtree says:

      I was hoping that was the Onion reporting, but no. CNN has the Times story.

      This one cuts close for me because of Puerto Rican students ( teens and adult ESL learners) I’ve known. The trauma and grief these folks have endured, and the *resident’s callous disregard for their suffering, and his desire to just “sell off the asset”, is profoundly disturbing. 

  11. skeptical citizen says:

    Vocabulary for those visiting Disneyworld, Trump rallies, and similar activities:

    COVIGNORANCE 

    COVARROGANCE

    COVIDIOT

    BRANCH COVIDIAN (add guns to defend my right to be stupid)

     

  12. Diogenesdemar says:

    How do you spell, “worst case scenario”???

    Natural Gas: A bridge to . . . 
     

    Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

     

    Denver’s Extraction Oil & Gas, founded at the start of the shale oil boom in 2012, paid 18 officers and key employees a combined $6.7 million in “retention agreements” last month. Three days later, it filed for bankruptcy protection.

    Patricia Garcia Nelson, whose 7-year-old son attends school on grounds just 700 feet away from one of the company’s fracking sites in Greeley, Colo., fears the site will now be neglected.

    Air pollution monitors at the school, which serves a fast-growing immigrant community, have shown that, over a period of about seven months last year, there were more than 100 periods of elevated levels of benzene, a toxic compound that can cause blood cancers such as leukemia.

    “Are we going to be responsible for the mess that these companies leave behind?” Ms. Nelson said. “Are we going to be OK if something happens?”

    The wells near Bella Romero are particularly contentious because they were initially planned to lie closer to a more affluent, majority-white charter school, but were moved after an outcry from parents there.

    Extraction Oil & Gas has said it offered key employees bonuses after determining that its previous compensation was “ineffective in motivating and incentivizing” them, and that its operations will continue as normal through its restructuring process. The Colorado site was equipped with “air monitoring equipment and some of the best available technology,” and the company had the appropriate financial reserves to meet environmental obligations, said Brian Cain, a company spokesman.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/climate/oil-fracking-bankruptcy-methane-executive-pay.html

    . . . being totally fucked economically and, of course, environmentally (cuz’ isn’t that what extraction industries always do? — Who knew that? I didn’t know that. Nobody ever told me that . . .)

    Poor J. Frackenlooper, what will he drink when the fluid’s all gone? . . .

    • kwtreekwtree says:

      Vickie Marble will have a sad, too, if Extraction as such goes bye bye. No more freebies for her fundraisers. Almost every GOP Weld County politician will mourn the loss of this income stream.  

      Does “restructuring “ mean that they aren’t bound by previous environmental agreements? 
       

      Just what the kiddos at Bella Romero need as they return to school this fall – fracking infrastructure that may or may not be leaking or monitored, and the paid-off execs could give a flying ……about what they’re breathing.

      • Genghis says:

        Extraction probably isn't going anywhere. Chapter 11 is a sweet deal. You get to keep doing business exactly as before while ignoring your bills and getting access to financing you couldn't have dreamed of getting before filing for bankruptcy protection.

        Then again, the pre-filing "bonus" (lol) payments suggests that the company insiders may be using Chapter 11 to maximize efficiency in stealing all the company's assets before closing up shop. We'll see whether this gets converted to a Chapter 7 down the road.

        The Bankruptcy Code (11 U.S.C. § 365) authorizes avoidance of "executory contracts," i.e., contracts that remain at least partially unperformed, but I have no idea whether or to what extent this has ever been applied to an O&G company's environmental agreements with local governments.

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