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March 30, 2006 09:00 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 119 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

You were busy on Wednesday

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119 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  3. Xeno: The Mexican flag is only a symbol. Dare an American citizen object to those who take to the streets and wave the Mexican colors because of their supposed commitment to the promise of America (the United States)? There’s something wrong with that. There’s a dichotomy there that I don’t understand. If you love America (the United States), if you want immigration reform to allow your brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and children and cousins to remain in this wonderful country, then shouldn’t the symbol of that love be the flag of the United States of America?

    Yes, I saw (actually photographed,the Westboro Baptist Church folks–Fred Phelps and his gang) desecrating the American flag because “God Hates Fags,” and “Thank God for IEDs,” and “Thank God for Dead Soldiers.” Should that not disturb me as much as our Latino community marching in the streets, waving Mexican flags while, at the same time, enjoying the generosity of this great country.

    Xenophobe. Racist. Bigot. PLEASE… I recall and subscribe to Godwin’s Law: “Godwin’s Law (also Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies) is, in Internet culture, an adage originated in 1990 by Mike Godwin that states:

    “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[1]

    “There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made the thread in which the comment was posted is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

    “It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin’s Law will be unsuccessful.”

    Xenophobe, you invoke Godwin’s law. Just substitute the words, “xenophobe,” “racist,” “bigot,” for “Nazi” or “Hitler.” Clearly, Xenophobe, you lose.

  4. Announcing Gigi as his running mate has to be one of BB’s dumbests moves ever. She is so Pro-Choice and moderate it’s not even funny.
    First he doesn’t show up for Caucuses, then he blows off Club 20 debate, now this? Maybe Bob should just drop out now and quit wasting GOP money.

  6. Xeno: The Mexican flag is only a symbol. Dare an American citizen object to those who take to the streets and wave the Mexican colors because of their supposed commitment to the promise of America (the United States)? There’s something wrong with that. There’s a dichotomy there that I don’t understand. If you love America (the United States), if you want immigration reform to allow your brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and children and cousins to remain in this wonderful country, then shouldn’t the symbol of that love be the flag of the United States of America?

    Yes, I saw (actually photographed,the Westboro Baptist Church folks–Fred Phelps and his gang) desecrating the American flag because “God Hates Fags,” and “Thank God for IEDs,” and “Thank God for Dead Soldiers.” Should that not disturb me as much as our Latino community marching in the streets, waving Mexican flags while, at the same time, enjoying the generosity of this great country.

    Xenophobe. Racist. Bigot. PLEASE… I recall and subscribe to Godwin’s Law: “Godwin’s Law (also Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies) is, in Internet culture, an adage originated in 1990 by Mike Godwin that states:

    “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[1]

    “There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made the thread in which the comment was posted is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

    “It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin’s Law will be unsuccessful.”

    Xenophobe, you invoke Godwin’s law. Just substitute the words, “xenophobe,” “racist,” “bigot,” for “Nazi” or “Hitle.” Clearly, Xenophobe, you lose.

  7. Seasoned – why would you say that about Bob & Gigi when nothing of the sort happened.  That is so blatantly wrong that I wonder over which horizon the sun rose in your world this morning.

    And paper mache Mike – you look like an idiot enough on your own to be accepting help from the clown noted above.

    At least try to make it sound more realistic so there’s a chance people believe you.  Instead you’re just cluttering up this board and getting naive citizens like mache Mike to fall for it – Mike, I’m just trying to protect you.

  8. The fight against illegal immigration is not about racism or xenophobia but more specifically about the respect for the laws of this country, the United States of America.  Rewarding those who break our laws will do nothing to stem the flow of illegal immigration and most likely increase that flow. Strict enforcement of the law and harsher penalties for all of those involved
    in the infractions, both employer and employee is required to curb illegal immigration.

    The concept of the Mexican flag liberally used throughout the demonstrations brings up another issue.  The United States of America is not a jobs program for Mexico or any other country.

    Those who come to the US, who want to work and earn a path to citizenship need to be declaring their true faith and allegiance to the United States of America, not North America, not Mexico, not Canada or any other country, but to the good old USA.

    The use of the Mexican flags demonstrates an unwillingness to do so, but rather solidifies
    the position of the Mexican government that they want to maintain their peoples allegiance
    to Mexico regardless of where they may be.

  9. Herb Rubenstein is pulling out of the Dem Caucus process in CO-7. That leaves Ed Perlmutter as the last man standing.

    Herb is joining Peggy as a last minute convert to the petition collecting business. Herb had been very vocal about the virtue of caucuses, but it looks like the math has changed… or perhaps didn’t change as much as he had hoped.

  10. Mike,
    You’re correct in stating that the demonstration could “look like and invasion.” However facts and laws are not derived from speculation.  Instead of going to the far extremes of this debate, which Schultheis does in every debate, look for the common ground.
    Schultheis and Savage declaring war on the Mexican Flag, is not an answer to illegal immigration.

  11. Did I read that right? Pro-Choice, anti-gun, pro-gay rights, might as well be a DEM, Gigi Dennis is Both Ways Bob’s pick for Lt. GOV?

    HA, HA, HA, HA! ROFL!

    Now he really can be Both Ways!

    “I’m Mr. Conservative but I have my RINO side too… Have you met my running mate Gigi?”

    What’s next? Is Bob going to support Kennedy’s Immigration Bill when it gets passed back to the House?

  12. By the Xeno, I thought the flag backlash story in the Rocky was pretty accurate. All of those demonstrators waving  Mexican flags and wearing the same white shirts, looks more like an invasion than a protest. Dave is not the only one who thinks so.

  13. We had our Lincoln Day Dinner down here in Pueblo last night. Chairman Ken Melman spoke: It was very inspirational. Secretary of State Gigi Dennis was introduced as Bob Beauprez’s running mate.
    Just shows that the GOP is not dead down here in Pueblo.

  14. Our very own Colorado fanatic Dave Schultheis, along with national loony Michael Savage, declares war on the MEXICAN FLAG!  Wow, these guys have gone off the deep end with their racism.

  15. We get it Druid, you are a Curtis Imrie Supporter.

    Ever wonder if they are ignoring you because you continue to post this question over and over?

  17. I was there last night and Gigi was introduced as being there not as Secretary of State, nor as a past Pueblo legislator, but on behalf of the Beauprez Campaign. She stood and waved. I missed most of the speakers though when I had to leave the room for a call on my cell and only caught the end of Mehlman’s speach. I guess that is when the formal announcement must have happened. I think having Gigi as Bob’s running mate would be a good thing.

  18. At least Herb went through the process. If he doesn’t have the votes, he should petition on. Nothing wrong with that. Peggy Lamm didn’t even attempt to go through the caucus.

  19. I was there last night and Gigi was introduced as being there not as Secretary of State, nor as a past Pueblo legislator, but on behalf of the Beauprez Campaign. She stood and waved. I missed most of the speakers though when I had to leave the room for a call on my cell and only caught the end of Mehlman’s speach. I guess that is when the formal announcement must have happened. I think having Gigi as Bob’s running mate would be a good thing.

  20. We’ve been hearing this for months — that Gigi will be the pick if Beaupreaz gets out of the primary. Having Gigi represent the campaign in Pueblo should have been expected, and I also expect she’ll start sharing the podium with him over the next few months. Well done for Bob. Gigi is a solid balancer for the Beaupreaz ticket.

  21. Wow, a lot going on this lunch hour…
    *
    Druid – Imrie is an idiot.
    *
    Gigi as Bob’s running mate is a smart move only if Beauprez wants to lose the Primary.
    *
    Maybe Scott Shires is posting as Iron Mike today.

  22. So David Harsanyi–the supposed House conservative at the Post–has read the tea leaves if not the outright edict to get behind Ritter and trash Holtzman and Beauprez.  How else to explain his odd paen to Ritter today and confusing criticism of the Republicans who wisely avoided a Dem photo-op with the “spend more” crowd…But that is what we can expect as the Post moves inexorably left.

  24. Oh the “Iron Mike” team is full of it today! Pulled out the hip waders yet to sludge through all that manure over there?

    1) I haven’t seen anything from the Beauprez campaign saying Gigi is his running mate, but hey who knows and who cares because…

    2) who the hell is Marc Holtzman to call Bob “both ways” when his real running mate — Lola “I voted for it but didn’t support it” Spradley — is running around trying to play like she has a clue?

    3) More of Marc’s madness: he says he’s all about creating jobs, but the AP story yesterday says his only experience is running one company into the ground and another into SEC violations. There’s the scandal-clad leadership Colorado needs…

    Glass houses, pot/kettle… pick your metaphor b/c they all apply!

  28. Can you believe all those damn Irish earlier this month, with their shamrocks, and Irish Pride schwag?  What about the godd old U-S-of-A?  If those of Irish descent want to live and work here, I say they need to swear their alligence to Uncle Sam not some damn catholic saint who did something with snakes away off in some feudal land.  This is America.  You come here, you need to speak and act American.  That’s all I’m saying.

  30. Why are the wingers all hung up with “the rule of law” regarding the immigrant workers debate?

    President Bush has showed that post 911 the rule of law is no longer in force.  It’s Bush’s law now. The Geneva Convention is “quaint.”  Suspending habeus corpus is necessary and the 4th amendment is no longer operative.  Screw the laws of america unless your a dirt poor Mexican.

    Could it be the racism that is endemic in Republican party?

  32. Kenevan, do you mean the racism in the Republican Party that has allowed for the first 2 black secretaries of state?  A Hispanic state chairman?  A Hispanic national committeewoman?  A black secretary of education?  An Asian Transportation Secretary?  A Hispanic congressional candidate here in the 5th CD?  Let me guess, you were going to pull the race card and mention the response to Hurricane Katrina and the evident amount of poor, black citizens and blame that on Republicans?  Let’s see, New Orleans; Black Democratic Mayor.  Louisiana; a Democratic Governor.  What had they done to stem the rise in poverty in that state?  Watch who you call a racist McConnon.

  36. Talk about your multiple personalities…

    Yesterday was the first I heard about the Holtzman hatchet job by AP. Here is the end of it…

    “…president of the Holtzman and Associates public affairs firm in Washington from 1986 to 1988, according to his biography in Who’s Who. The travel company was not involved in the bankruptcy.
    Posted by: goRVing at March 29, 2006 05:07 PM”

    So “Funny Guy” did you forget you posted this as goRVing yesterday? Or are you just the AP author desperate to get it in print?

    Like I said yesterday, this article proves Hotzman is a real businessman who has had to make hard decisions. Not some guy who got a degree in Phis Ed and then sold the family farm so we could have another golf course.

    By the way, I think Scott Shires is posting as Rock 5 today.

  38. “Tyler Nifong rocks. And I think he is going all the way baby! You all may not like him but he deserves to be listed on the line up.
    :-P”

    —

    Awww I have a secret admirer!  How cute!  You can wear my white robe and play in my stone circle if you want?

  42. Hey!  Wanda James!  Why are you posting as Druid?  Shouldn’t you be working on your no hope campaign?

    Curtis actually has a clue about what is important for CD 5.  Water, the environment, AND he has the local union support.  Curtis kicks some donkey ass!

  43. Uh, thanks for trying to help “Funny Gal” but can we try finger a real person?

    I mean “Nifong”? What the hell kind of made up name is that?

  44. So much for Perlmutter’s claim of protecting taxpayer dollars. Mark Udall’s Chief of Staff Alan Salazar spends more time at Ed’s campaign headquarters than his own office… while he’s still on the clock as part of Udall’s staff!

    Bring in all the help you can find, Ed (and you will need a lot more than Alan Salazar to make it past the primaries) but the very least you can do is be honest! Then again, the taxpayers in CD2 probably wouldn’t be open to the idea of paying someone to work on a CD7 campaign.

  47. Actually Mike, Tyler Nifong is a real person. He will be running for State Delegate from District 31 here in Douglas County. I kinda wonder what the other folks in his District will think of his posts when hey see them at the District meeting.

  48. I guess Tyler Nifong doesn’t make it up to your neck of the woods too often Mike, but he is a real person. He works for Phaseline as one of Sean Tonner’s butt boys.

  49. Iron Mike, the real problem with all the Holtzman background stuff is that he portrays himself as someone he’s not (ie. creating jobs, rebuilding Eastern Europe), and then at the same time tries to bury the unflattering truth. The guy is just shaky.  For the life of me I don’t know why you support him.

  50. So much for Perlmutter’s claim of protecting taxpayer dollars. Mark Udall’s Chief of Staff Alan Salazar spends more time at Ed’s campaign headquarters than his own office… while he’s still on the clock as part of Udall’s staff!

    Bring in all the help you can find, Ed (and you will need a lot more than Alan Salazar to make it past the primaries) but the very least you can do is be honest! Then again, the taxpayers in CD2 probably wouldn’t be open to the idea of paying someone to work on a CD7 campaign.

  51. Hey, if we’re going to go making fun of people’s names, how about “Marc Holtzman?”  Or “Iron Mike?”
    If you think my name is silly, wait until you meet my sister, Tippecanoe.

  52. Tyler is a Phasie. He must be concerned about the state contract story that ran today. I wouldn’t want to be in the Phase Line office today, even if they have access to porn.

  53. Tyler is a Phasie. He must be concerned about the state contract story that ran today. I wouldn’t want to be in the Phase Line office today, even if they have access to porn.

  54. “Iron Mike”, it seems that Laura wears the pants in the family…and that’s definately TEAL, because I don’t want to even think about that BUSH.  That’s funny, I know, but Jenny Craig is on the phone…..Hello?

  55. Everone knows Iron Mike is either Scott Shires, Marc Holtzman, Dick Leggitt, “Mike Teal” or an army of Holtzman supporters posting under one name in a sort of hive-mind collective kind of like the “Borg.”

  56. Has there been any news on the Scott Tipton campaign.  I have not heard much if anything about what he is doing?  I have heard (although my sources are biased) that John Salazar is very well liked.

  58. I have a teal-colored leisure suit, it sets off my gold chain so well.  But let’s get back to the real issue on this board, which is when they are going to list Laura Teal in the CD5 big line!  No guts, no glory, Alva.

  64. Druid are you being serious about you “hearing” that John Salazar is well liked, or were you being extremely sarcastic?  If I was a Dem anywhere near western Colorado I’d change my last name to Salazar.

    I am a Beauprez supporter, however you people beating up on Laura Teal all the time is absolutely ridiculous.  You all need to grow up, granted I know I am talking to a couple college interns. 

    Also I am not certain, but I can all but guarantee that Iron Mike is not anyone that you have tried to guess thus far either, so give it up.

  66. Ha! This is great! The Mikes do this every day – shoot the messenger, not the message…

    So Marc’s so into technology that he now has his own borg? Wow, that’s great work for somebody who hasn’t updated his blog in a month. Or three. Anyway… where is that blog anyway? I can’t find it but I can sign a petition for C & D on his website. Is that legal?

    Oh, and if Laura Teal had my IP address, I’m sure she’d tell you that I’m no Tyler even though he is a good guy and I wish him all the luck. Didn’t know he was running, I’ll have to send a check.

  67. “Druid are you being serious about you “hearing” that John Salazar is well liked, or were you being extremely sarcastic? If I was a Dem anywhere near western Colorado I’d change my last name to Salazar.”

    I love the guy personally.  He fought the Southern Delivery System which I thought was a horribly selfish idea for the benefit of El Paso County only.  I was not being sarcastic, per se, I was just wondering what opinions were.

  70. Nasty, nasty. I think you boys struck a nerve by saying Nifong’s name. Pretty much discredits anything the Anti-Holtzman crowd would say for the rest of the day.

  72. Awww. Poor Tancredo.

    —-

    FEX answers question raised by Tancredo
    By Rocky Mountain News
    March 29, 2006
    WASHINGTON ? A Federal Elections Commission opinion will prevent Rep. Tom Tancredo from giving a $50,000 contribution to help the group behind a state ballot measure that would restrict state services for illegal immigrants.
    Tancredo, R-Littleton, asked the commission for an advisory ruling in advance because he did not want to give too much and thus make the state group, Defend Colorado Now, subject to strict federal reporting requirements.

    Tancredo’s congressional committee is allowed to pay for its own ads touting his endorsement of the measure, although he has not yet decided whether to do that, a campaign spokesman said.

  73. This is hilarious! Mike, I didn’t know you could move so quick for such an old disabled vet, but you guys have already taken down your petitions page. I assume it will be back up shortly without the C&D petitions?

    Don’t worry, I took a screen shot, just in case you accidentally deleted them… 🙂

  75. Yeah, where did Marc’s petition page go?  That’s about a 20-minute response to funny guy’s post.  Somebody at the Holtzman castle is paying attention….

    So pay attention to this, Holtmannequins: your guy’s nutty.  We Democrats love him.  Go Marc!

  77. Tipton has been quiet but working hard. He has been down in our area constantly. Last night at our Lincoln Day Dinner, Ken Mehlman started his speech by plugging Scott and telling everyone about the 18,000 vote GOP advantage in the 3rd. It is good news for Tipton and Co. to see the RNC on board and engaged. Go Scott Go!

  79. Does anyone else hear that?
    I’m pretty sure it’s Sean Tonner giving one of his inspirational “you dumb fuckers” pep talks. Sharing with everyone one of his thrilling adventures as a Scout Platoon Chogi Boy.
    He’s such a leader.

  80. Iron Mike, I noticed you said “probably”.  Come on, quit mincing words and say Holtzman is going to be the next Governor period.  YOU, the die hard Holtzman supporter, don’t even have any confidence in this guy.

  83. Lack of confidence huh? Here I was just thinking I was counting my eggs as eggs. Unlike the Beauprez folks who obviously went in to Caucuses counting chickens based on a DC lobbyist’s projections.

  84. You know people are starting to catch on to the smeer tactics the Beauprez crowd have resorted to.
    Just look at what happened on this thread today: One of their own gets on to tout Gigi Dennis as Beauprez’s running mate, then when it doesn’t go well they just resort to personal attacks against anyone who ever spoke in favor of Holtzman on this blog.

  85. Said it before and I will say it again. 

    I have received a deluge of calls and mailings from the Holtzman campaign but nary a peep from the Beauprez team. 

    Guess Marc wants my vote, though I am nut sure if Bob does.

  86. Hey there Funny Guy, I just read you little comments about the petions page being taken down… My first reaction was “who gives a fuck”. But my second reaction was a far more civil one:

    I guess he doesn’t need a Petition Page anymore.

    Has Bob put one up yet? He might need it after the State Assembly.

  87. As a prospective law student, I was brousing through the CU law schools postings of recent activities and speakers.  For the most part, it’s the usual dreary parade of left and ultra-left, with the occasionally super ultra leftist thrown in for balance.  But notably, on March 3, Marc Holtzman spoke there.
    Give the guy credit for being willing to take Republican and conservative ideas into that arena.  To to CU for at least giving him a civil reception.

  88. Well said Go Raiders!
    You are 100% right. He doesn’t want your vote. He wants to be coronated by devine right because he is a Boulder County aristocrat and “deserves it”.
    Did he work for Caucuses? No. Will he work to win the State Assembly? Probably not. If he wins the Primary will he work to win the General? Hell no!
    All the R’s will say “Gee, Ritter isnt that bad” the Mansion will once again host a Democrat for another 8 years.
    Holtzman is the only one working on this race. He’s the only one who can keep the mansion Republican.

  90. Druid:  As to your question on Tipton, he is really working it.  I think the guy must have a clone because he is at every event.  He is far more pleasing to moderate Repubs who secretly voted for Salazar over the ultra right Walcher, so he might win the middle back.  It is still an uphill battle as Salazar is an incumbent, doesn’t vote party line, and has raised a lot of money.  My guess is he’ll keep his seat.

  91. That was so funny Home Alone… So I guess Sean finished his “you dumb fuckers” pep talk and gave you a few pointers?
    First short jokes, then fat jokes, now you guys come up with some nice robot jokes… Nice.

  92. I want to correct an outright lie by the blogger way2liberal.  Several of us have been a volunteers for the Perlmutter campaign and we have seen Alan Salazar at the HQ only twice, once on a Saturday at Ed’s grand opening and once on a holiday. Ed has many many advisors visit the campaign HQ all on their own volunteer time. 

    There is no one more honest than Ed Perlmutter.

  96. spoken like a true shill, 5-rocks-in-your-head!  The fact remains, I’ve never had any human contact with anyone in the Holtzman campaign, only ceaseless Robo calls. I guess he has more money than friends.

  99. Gee, it almost breaks the heart…

    Tears streaming down your faces and you’re still blogging. There’s that can do, Phaseline spirit.

    Thanks for the tips… Personally I would keep Joshua. Good point about Clay though… He should go.

    You guys are so helpful when your press days fizzle. Thanks.

  100. I think the Holtzman campaign has successfully gotten the Beauprez staff to start checking their site for errors. And all without consulting fees, its a pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

  101. Ezal: Aw, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. God. Oh, I’m hurt. Oh, my neck, my back, my neck and my back. Oh, I want $150,000, but we can settle out of court right now for 20 bucks.
    Janitor: Man, get your punk ass up. It ain’t even wet over here. Damn.

  103. Gee, I wish I was a big time political leader like Rock 5 who could say “fuck” a lot and paste it all over public blogs to show what a classy guy Mac “Family Values” Holtzman is.  What a class act!

  105. Pretty sure he said “fuckers” and attributed it to Sean Tonner.

    But hey… He’s a Veteran. Just as FBI agents are allowed to fire on bank robbers, Rock 5 is allowed to cuss in the pursuit freedom and justice. It’s in the UCMJ you know… just ask Pheonix, he’ll tell ya.

  106. Nah, Pheonix goes for the kindler, gentler version of the UCMJ. 

    Makes me wish for the days when we could just board a guy and get it over with.

  107. Iron Mike & Rock 5,

    Your language, attacks on fellow Republicans, and arrogant attitude only hurt the Republican cause.

    You are both truely classless.

    And for your information I am a Holtzman supporter.

  108. I remember Reagan well. He was still President when I first enlisted.

    Obviously you missed a couple of the other comments there “Remember Reagan”. Please read carefully but do keep up support for Marc. I’m pretty sure Uncle Ron would be OK with what I had to say today.

  109. Do you remember Reagan’s speach in Berlin where he asked Gorbachev to tear down the wall? I do. I was 100 feet away, in a tent with a Airborne Rifle Platoon from the Berlin Brigade. We were there in case something bad happened.
    Please don’t talk to me about a lack of class. You never asked about it back then. It doesn’t matter now.

  110. Remember Reagan you are so full of it. There is no way any Republican would read that thread and go after Iron Mike and Rock 5. Unless you are Tyler Nifong’s mother that is. Hope you’re proud of your boy today Mother Nifong.

  113. I have to agree with you, Bill, that there is something fishy about Remember Reagan’s post.  He seems far too intelligent to be a Holtzman supporter.

  114. Word is definatly making the rounds — Gigi is the pick of Beaupreaz.  No matter what, we’ll have a Lt. Gov. with a funny first name.

  115. Rock 5, Iron Mike, and Bill,

    The reason I singled out Iron Mike and Rock 5 is because honestly I could care less what the Beauprez folks do.  I want to get my guy elected and your horrible personal attacks don’t help. 

    Are you folks such hard core Hotlzman supporter that you are letting your judgement be clouded when it come to how your should treat your fellow Republicans?  Sham on you. 

    Now, I suppose, you are going to start attacking me.

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