Wednesday Open Thread

“America is a model of force and freedom and moderation–with all the coarseness and rudeness of its people.”

–Lord Byron

44 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. itlduso says:

    A CDC official in Atlanta gave a private presentation to my daughter's CPA firm yesterday during his lunch hour.  It was not helpful.  He was unable, and maybe unwilling, to answer basic questions about tests, vaccines, etc., etc.  She did learn to wash her hands, though.  Sigh.

    I think we'll be dealing with this crisis until a vaccine is available which won't be until September, 2021 at the earliest.  Plan and act, accordingly, but it's hard to imagine all of the resulting fallout.  I'm going to watch the 2011 movie, "Contagion" which was highlighted in today's NY Times.

  2. Voyageur says:

    Blowouts in the three m states have wrapped it up for Biden and the calendar just gets worse for bernie.  Yes, Joe is boring.  After four years o f fascist stumblebummery,  boring looks awfully good to me.

    Yes, I wanted Amy, kamala, pete or elizabeth.  So I understand the frustration of bernie fans.

    take a few weeks off.  Have a damn good cry.  Then sharpen your spears and join the chiltron (a Scottish phalanx) in the final struggle again st fascism and Trumpstink.

    we have fought for Hillary the Fair and Bernie the Brave.  

    Now we fight house to house for the survival of our free republic.

    The Union forever

    Hurrah, boys, hurrah!

    Down with the traitors

    Hurrah boys hurrah.

    Oh, we’ll rally round the flag,

    Yes, we’ll rally round the flag

    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

    • Duke Cox says:

      That probably warrants a "huzzah!" from the left flank, V.

      Vote Blue…No Matter Who.

      • JohnInDenver says:

        Nevertheless, Blue persisted.

        I'm wondering what policy accommodations or choice of advisers could be offered to solidify a Democratic "team of rivals" supporting Biden. 

        I'd really like to see Biden's African American and older voter support joined with Bernie's Latinx and younger voters, joined with Warren's Indivisible women's support.  Heck, I'd even welcome the American Samoan support of Bloomberg and Gabbard, the folks certain Yang's Universal Basic Income is a panacea, and the individual trying to drum up support for Bennet in the Iowa caucus. 

    • MADCO says:

      "…wanted Amy, kamala, pete or elizabeth.  So I understand…"

      I understand why you would think that
      No Bernie supporter under age 40 is going to agree with you. They will conclude you have no idea.

  3. MADCO says:

    I was at a Bernie watch party last night.

    most common coments I heard: 
    – f**k ’em … they want Joe, glwt without us
    – I’ma move to MT and focus on the Senate (Go Bullock!)
    –  I’m going back to Cali, and live in my van until the recession causes price collapse
    – My friends working for Bloomberg all got termed, end of month, not Nov

    No one but me was talking about ABT
    They all feel shit on. I can’t imagine why.


    No, I was not the oldest one in there.
    Yes, I was the only one saying Joe is better enough than the incumbent.
    Yes- plenty of people see Joe as the same enough as the incumbent.

    No one wants to argue free stuff or incrementalism. (Most of them count on Congress to incrementalize them to death)

    • NOV GOP meltdown says:

      I am surprised that is their reaction is good luck without us considering they have had three years to observe the dumpster fire this deluded idiot has created. 

      I think last time around the fuck the establishment reaction was more warranted considering Wasserman, Brazile, et. al. were running around putting their thumbs on the scales. Maybe time will help a little ?

      • MADCO says:

        One can hope.

        Will a Biden administration
        – bailout the street and the 10% ? 
        Or figure out a way to get the student loan mess under control?

        – add another IRA/401k like account to the mix?
        Or stablize Medicare/Medicaid and SS OAI?

        – allow bid insurance companies to profit even more?
        Or expand ACA with a public option?

        – ignore climate change, even if he doesn't call it a hoax?
        Or …


        • NOV GOP meltdown says:

          I saw health insurance stocks picked up after Biden's wins on Super Tuesday.  I did not like that. Have to give him credit for the ACA with Obama though.  That was indeed " a big fucking deal " and a step in the right direction.

          I am going to be mildly hopeful. Trump has to go though, and this has made that closer to happening IMHO. ABT.

      • Duke Cox says:

        It is early. Their immediate reaction may not last. I know how they feel, and I have felt it before…so many times the memories are worn…to borrow from Mr. Prine.

        Joe Biden can win them over. But, not without including them and their issues. “Corporate Joe” will never get them back…”21st Century Joe” might have a chance. But, I don”t know what that would look like. If he chooses his running mate wisely and creates the right platform, he could get significant buy in from Sanders supporters.

        • MADCO says:

          My sense is that they won't listen to Biden who they see as just another lying a-hole, and his VP choice can only hurt. Better if he says nothing until July and then only if he is the nominee

          They'll either come to realize that ABT makes the most sense, or not.

          And in many states I don't think it will matter much (CO, CA, NY, WA, OR, )

          • JohnInDenver says:

            Fortunately, I think the "always & only Bernie" crowd is outnumbered by those abandoning Trump.

             * the dead.  Trump won senior voters by 53%-45%, and that group had the highest participation rate.  2 million per year die; of that 8 million, near 80% voted; Trump won by 8% — that is half a million votes or so Trump won't be getting in 2020.

             * the anti-Hillary vote.  Even among those who liked the liberal policy positions, there were many who voted against the woman, against the "dynasty," against Whitewater/Benghazi/emails.   Even more stayed home and didn't vote at all.  Opinion polls took a hit with the release of Comey's letter, and there wasn't enough time for that to wear off or be discounted.

             * the exhausted Democratic vote (only Bush 41 has been elected to sustain a party's control of the Presidency for a third term since the end of the FDR-Truman sequence in 1952).

             * the exhausted Obama vote ("he promised us xxxx, and didn't deliver and his party let him do it." – "I don't like him ")

             * the "he'll turn Presidential, just you wait and see" Republican voters.

             * the 3rd party resigned voters — "She's going to win, so I'm going to express myself to show interest in a philosophy."

      • Diogenesdemar says:






        . . . 

        or Brobots . . . 

        If Sanders really cares more about America than himself, he will be a leader and an example.

        . . . anyone wanna’ take a bet on how he plays it?

        • MADCO says:

          Last time he enthusiastically endorsed HRC and offered to campaign for her.
          She blew him off.

          I bet the same this time, when Biden clicnhes (June or never) or when he drops.

          • Diogenesdemar says:

            Too late.  Anyway, that’s surrender not leadership.

            I’m not saying he needs to drop out (but he probably should), but he has a choice:

            A.  Bitch and yell and whine and mewl incessantly about the rigged system, and tear up the party . . . . . . . or, 2) acknowledge, now, that he has some fundamental differences with Biden, important differences which include xyz and why, but also acknowledge that the war that needs to be fought this year is against Ttump, not against each other.  And, in the end state for the record now that, regardless, working with and for Biden, if it comes to that, would be way, way better than another four years of OD.

            That would be leading.

            • MADCO says:

              Well- he just execute 2 in his press conference.
              Just in time for the party faithful to call for an end to the primary.

              • Diogenesdemar says:

                I was both pleased and impressed.  (And, honestly —  full disclosure, a little surprised.)

                Maybe we can begin to hope to hope? . . . 

                • JohnInDenver says:

                  The reported contents of Bernie Sanders' presentation didn't surprise me.  "He also said his campaign is not hampered by primary losses in the last two weeks — saying he's winning support for his progressive agenda, which includes universal healthcare, hiking the federal minimum wage and substantial action on climate change."  I sorta expected the dismissal of actual results and the optimistic take on winning for the "progressive agenda."

                  I was a bit surprised by one thing:  "Sanders left the stage after the 10-minute speech without taking questions."  How do you advertise a "news conference" and just give a speech?

            • Duke Cox says:

              "tear up the party"…

              I am listening to Tom Perez.

              He is using "weasel speak" when it comes to the primary. Clyburn is doing his part, too, being the mouthpiece for the "Boot Bernie" cabal.

              Anyone who believes the DNC isn't actively working overtime to squash Bernies' agenda is naive or ignorant. Just because DWS and Brazile are not out front, doesn't mean the agenda has changed. Bernies' plans are a direct threat to the hegemony of some of Americas' largest and most powerful industries. They don't give up.

              Yes…there is some tearing up that actually needs to be done. As any remodeler will tell you, the process begins with demolition. You have to remove unwanted and unnecessary material first.

              Like …the private insurance industry, f'rinstance. And the fossil fuel industry. Did I mention private prisons? And investment banks. Surveillance and security companies.

              Shall I continue? 

              I don't believe Joe Biden will abandon his corporate connections any more than Obama did.

              Everybody loves Jamie…don't we boys?



              • Diogenesdemar says:

                I’m actually anxious, and up for, a bit of remodeling and home improvement . . . 

                . . . just as soon as we get the fetid floodwaters pumped outta’ the damn basement and a roof back over the top of the house.


                PS. A short list of people I am disinclined to give trust:
                Politicians, (including those I vote for)
                Lawyers, (see above)
                Prostitutes, (see above twice)
                Insurance Salespeople,
                Car Salespeople,
                Corporate Spokespeople,
                Former Athletes (Appearing in Commercials)

              • kwtree says:

                From Van Jones, retweeted by Tom Miller:

  4. Genghis says:

    Sanders is holding a presser at 1:00 p.m. eastern time.

    • harrydoby says:

      Pretty smart of Bernie.  He laid out his agenda in a series of debate questions for Biden, allowing Joe to prepare his responses by Sunday.

      If Biden is smart, he'll come up with progressive, accommodating answers that could satisfy the vast majority of both Biden and Bernie's base.  Sanders appeared to be offering an olive branch to say, if you address the concerns of the next generation (under 40), then he'll soon step aside.


      • MADCO says:


        Oh.. you’re right. and you’re crazy

        If Bernie runs well in the remaining contests – Biden doesn’t clinch until late May, if at all.

        If Biden clinches – great.
        If not- contested convention and supers vote on the 2d ballot.

        If this race was ever about unity and electability, then whyinhell were the much more logical candidates ignored (Inslee, Bennet, Bullock , etc etc)

        • harrydoby says:

          FUD — Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

          Trump has so rattled the country that "Sleepy Joe" is actually reassuring to voters, not repelling them as Trump intended with his insult.

          Voters are seeking security first and foremost.  Isn't that one of Mazlow's hierarchy of needs?  A familiar name from someone with a comforting manner.

          And name recognition.  Voters are selecting someone to fulfill a symbolic role — let his team handle the actual running of the office of the President.  I hope he chooses them wisely and broadly.

  5. MichaelBowman says:

    Amy Siskind: Dr. Fauci testifying before Congress, when asked how many people will get and/or die from COVID-19 in the U.S.:

    “If we are complacent and don’t do really aggressive containment and mitigation, the number could go way up…many, many millions.”

    Fauci now is called away from testifying, and back to the White House by Trump.

    This is pretty much what Merkel said publicly this morning.

    She expects 70% of Germany to get the coronavirus

    Judy: I was watching, when all of a sudden a notice was read that the White House was shutting down the hearing!

    Democracy at it’s best?

  6. DENependent says:

    Anecdote time. -Or- Why I think Biden has a 50% chance of losing the general election.

    At least one of my coworkers is saying the same things about Biden that I heard about Hillary Clinton. 

    "Boy, he's just as much in the pocket of big business as Trump. We might as well have someone who's openly for the rich so I'm voting 3rd party."

    Yeah, I tried to suggest that this was a bad plan to this younger voter, but he's not convinced. At least not at this point. Maybe things will change by Nov. or in the privacy of the voting booth he might actually vote Blue. There is a big pile of active voters who are really not happy with Biden and the party. At least as unhappy as older voters would have been with Sanders if he had been nominated. Unless some polls show me otherwise I think that Biden will pickup Michigan and nothing else on the 2016 results. He will win the popular vote by a wider margin and lose the election.

    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

      Predictions on March 11 at 12:42 PM aren't worth much at all. Here is another; equally not worth much:  Biden gets PA and MI back into the Dem column. AZ replaces WI; AZ goes blue by narrow margin & WI stays red by equally narrow margin.

      If Klobuchar is the V-P nominee, then WI comes back and MN won't be close.

    • Pseudonymous says:

      Here's the take I'm finding the most resonance with.  Of course, nobody knows anything about this will all play out.

    • MADCO says:

      If that's in CO, I would not worry about it too much
      HRC carried CO in 16, as did all D's in 18

      But – at some point in time voters need to figure out the election is always about the candidates on the ballot
      It's never about who could have been on the ballot. That's how we got Nixon and Trump

    • Voyageur says:

      Gains are.michigan, pennsylvania, arizona, possibly north carolins, florida.   If god is good ohio, iowa.

  7. MADCO says:

    How can the discussions about Covid19 be classified and also be used to declare national emergency?

    National emergency gives a lot of power to the Chief Executive, and tif the reason is classified…. Does that mean what I think it means?


    A list of 28 ways Trump and his team have been dishonest about the coronavirus

  8. Pseudonymous says:


    Oh cool James Biden's office raided by the FBI after he apparently trading on his brother's name. What would a Democratic nominee for President be without a looming FBI scandal?

    — Matt Stoller (@matthewstoller) March 10, 2020

  9. MichaelBowman says:

    Welp (remember the Bloomberg threat to destroy Trump’s family should hearings go forward?) 

    I’m sure there’s nothing to see here. 

    GOP chairman cancels Hunter Biden-related subpoena vote

    Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) canceled a vote scheduled for Wednesday afternoon on a subpoena stemming from his months-long probe into Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings.

    Johnson told reporters that he was pulling the vote because of “some discrepancies brought up in what we had been told.”

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