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December 02, 2019 06:23 AM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 30 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Men who borrow their opinions can never repay their debts.”

–Edward Wood

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30 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread”

    1. Those of us who've been right all along about Trump feel no solace in that knowledge. I'll never forget the panic I felt when he "won" the election in 2016, then the sadness, fear and panic I felt when he was inaugurated. For months after November 2016, I woke up every day thinking something would save us from the devastation he (and Putin) would bring. But of course that didn't happen. 

      And here we are – Trump will be impeached, but it now seems likely the (corrupt and ignorant) Republicans in the Senate will not vote to remove. He will be emboldened by the Senate's failure, his malignant narcissism will get worse as will his dementia. More importantly his meanness will get worse – we will face increasing disasters in 2020 as a result.

      For the life of me I cannot understand why and how people can believe we will survive another (more than a) year with Trump in power. I still have that fear and panic in my gut.

       

      1. Realist: I will humbly and politely suggest that you should talk seriously with a Trump supporter. I'm reasonably sure that you know someone of that ilk. Despite all the rampant liberal views on this web site, I'm thinking everyone knows a Trump voter or supporter.

        In my case, I have a good friend who is a strong environmentalist and an advocate for zero population growth. He voted for Trump because of Trump's campaign position on curbing illegal immigration. As an aside, he did not have an answer when I pointed out that Trump said nothing about persons who overstay visas, the primary source for “illegals.”

        Note that my comments pertain only to the 2016 campaign. Immigration resonated some with me, but not enough to vote for Trump. I've always wondered why people in European and Asian countries wait for years in a queue to get into the US. But some think it's OK for "Cousin Manuel or Uncle Pedro" to stroll across our southern border at will. Why would the US not base its immigration policies on what people can do for us, instead of the other way around? Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and most European countries work in that fashion. Why not the US?

        Note that I'm not interested in getting into yet another endless debate with some of your ultra liberal colleagues here. I'm simply trying to give you an answer. Oh, and my friend liked a lot of what Obama did, but definitely did not like Hillary.

        1. I've talked for several years with my husband who voted for Trump. Why did he? I still don't have an answer I can understand, other than he didn't like Hillary. 

          On immigration: The Trump administration has made a bad situation worse (I think that's his campaign slogan, isn't it?). Listen to the Reveal program on immigration, on NPR.

      2. I think I can confidently say, you are not alone. Most of my family and friends have that same sense of impending doom. I, however, continue to believe this process will end with a strengthening of our democracy…but it is very likely to get significantly more ugly before that happens.

        The U. S. has a built-in advantage over other nations in that we have never known any way other than democracy. It will be very difficult to wrest it away from us. 

        Everything Donald Trump is, is everything the Constitution was designed to keep from our body politic. We have given the narrative over to the hateful… the greedy…the selfish.

        When we have finished the process of selecting our leaders, we must rally around them, setting aside all differences and old disputes, and pulling together to right the ship of state. Once we have sent the fascists packing and honor once again the words at the feet of Lady Liberty, we can get back to being the beacon of freedom and opportunity we have always been.

        T***p, as president, has given us a taste of fascism. I don't think Americans are going to swallow it. I believe we are ready to spit this foul thing from our mouths.

        We have only begun to fight.
        Vote Blue…No Matter Who!

         

  2. Two more out of the Presidential nomination chase:  Gov. Bullock (who won't run for Senate, either) and former Rep. Sestak. Comments on Bullock keep wondering how candidate X remains and Bullock can’t stay in. Nobody seems to have a similar complaint about Sestak. 

    Careful counters now say there are 16 candidates:  as a parlor trick, how many can you name?  I got to 15 — resorted to pen and paper — and finally remembered former Rep. Delaney is still in.

  3. Apropos today's quote:

    State lawmakers acknowledge lobbyists helped craft their op-eds attacking Medicare-for-all

    Emails obtained by an advocacy group reveal lobbyists helped draft or extensively revise opinion columns that were sharply critical of major proposed changes to the government's role in health care. The emails show how lobbyists have taken an active role in trying to shape public opinion against an idea that has divided Democrats during the presidential primary.

    Shocking revelation, right?  No, not really.

  4. Fareed Zakaria believes that if Trump is re-elected we will have devolved to an “elective dictatorship”; aka, a cult of personality.  Hail, Trump!  Trump above all!

  5. RE: immigration.  Dems should embrace E Verify that requires employers to check  immigration status prior to hiring.  It was included in the bipartisan Senate bill that was drafted partly by Michael Bennet.  He’s too stupid to figure out how to break out. But, Pete and/or Amy might.

    1. I'm all for e-verify, if and when the number of visas allowed matches what industries need (agriculture, tech, ski resorts, etc). No more lies that an immigrant is taking away a job from a (white) American.

      1. But first, we'll need to repair the damage Trump (esp. Stephen Miller) have done to the current system.

        It was never about protecting the border, rule of law or the U.S. economy. And it was never about “illegal” immigration, for that matter.

        Trump’s anti-immigrant bigotry was always just anti-immigrant bigotry.

        There’s no other way to explain the Trump administration’s latest onslaught against foreigners of all kinds, regardless of their potential economic contributions, our own international commitments or any given immigrant’s propensity to follow the law. Trump’s rhetoric may focus on “illegals,” but recent data releases suggest this administration has been blocking off every available avenue for legal immigration, too.

        In October, the number of refugees admitted to the United States hit zero. That’s the first month on record this has ever happened, according to data going back nearly three decades from both the State Department and World Relief, a faith-based resettlement organization.

      2. "an immigrant is taking away a job from a (white) American……"

        Haven't done this for about a year, in my Yahoo posts, which aren't super frequent.

        I may see person XYZ posting something like: "deport all illegals now!" My reply sometimes goes like this: "When all the illegals are gone, then XYZ can get his dream job of cleaning toilets at truck stops on the interstate." 

      3. No more lies that an immigrant is taking away a job from a (white) American.

        Schrodinger’s immigrant: Simultaneously too lazy to work and stealin’ our jerbs.

    1. Another of my sporadic posts on Yahoo, this time in answer to somebody who talks "America first" and condemns "globalism." 

      "do you eat bananas?"  Answer is usually "yes." My next response: "then you are a globalist because those aren't grown in the US except maybe a few in Hawaii." 

      1. Do you ever eat food? . . . 
         

        Do you ever wear any clothing, shoes? . . . 
         

        Do you ever use a computer/cell-phone/television/radio, any electronics? . . . 
         

        Do you ever drive a car, motorcycle, ATV, snowmobile, scooter, or ride a bicycle? . . .

         

        Do you work someplace that hopes maybe to sell stuff somewhere? . . .

         

    2. You're practically a Nostradamus, Dio!

      Trump’s South American tariff threat looms over new Brazil ties

      President Donald Trump announced Monday the U.S. will be restoring tariffs on Brazilian and Argentine steel and aluminum, potentially disrupting the recently improving U.S. trade relationships with Brazil

      While Brazil is a major exporter of steel to the U.S., it is also a major importer of U.S. ethanol and coal, two commodities Brazil has threatened to raise tariffs on previously, before the U.S. exempted it from the steel and aluminum tariffs about a year and a half ago.

      And now U.S. wheat could come in the crosshairs.

      So. Much. Winning.  

  7. Eff all y'all

    1. Any 2016 Trump voter in Colorado was irrelevant. 
    I don't feel Colorado flipping – but things happen.

    2. I also don't feel the electoral math changing much.
    And here the viewpoint of  Trump voters  is crucial.

    For voters I know, who otherwise wouldn't be Trump-ish here's what I've heard.
    – tax cuts are good
    – he's an asshole, but he's our asshole and that's what we need 
    – build the wall , and then we can talk about immigration reform
    –      oil is cheap – don't care how or why
    – HRC sux: liar, bitchy, screachy, her emails, her millions, her  husband
    – unemployment is low – don't care why (    labor force participation is also still low – like deficits this only matters for the black guy) 
    – he loves coal (doesn't matter that it doesn't matter) 
    – NATO can kiss my a**
    – he's not a politician, he's a business man
     

    So until I see it – I don't think PA and WI are in play yet.
    I would love to flip AZ – but … I don't see it, esp if Kelly wins. That will take 'crossover' voters and they will want to 'balance' things and vote R top of ticket to vote against McSally downticket

    Florida can't count D votes – and will remain R in 2020
     

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