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July 31, 2019 07:04 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 52 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely.”

–Franklin D. Roosevelt

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52 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread”

  1. So what individual voters are regretting Trump.
    Which state (s) are going to switch?

    Florida and the rest of the south are going to vote R.
    Interior west states, including Missouri and excepting NV, CO NM, are going to vote R.
    Ohio and Indiana – R.

    What's going to change?
    Which issues will motivate voters?

    Sadly, I don't care about the party.  I care about the country and the future of American Democracy.
     

     

    1. Silly Mad Corporation . . . 

      . . . Regret hightailed it long ago, about the same time as Irony . . . 

      . . . both victims run off by Confirmation Bias in a world now eager to, and capable of providing and selling every single individual on this planet their very own personal, private, monetized (of course) echo chamber.

    2. One specific demographic that is regretting their votes for Trump is suburban white women.  The issues that have resonated with them are the family separations (they don't like seeing kids taken from their parents) and the racist attacks that Trump has used against black and brown members of congress and citizens of Baltimore.  Enough of them are regretting their votes to swing Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin…and to put Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and Arizona in play.

      1. In Florida there is an extra factor of some1,000,000 ex-felons able to vote.  Republicans are going all out to suppress this vote with quasi poll taxes.  If courts intervene, Democrats could gain from this bloc, which is heavily African-American as a result of past bias in the legal system.

      2. I would like to believe that Arvadonian  – but what kind of source is there?

        That sounds like … something soothing to Trump opposition so that we'll spend our time and energy unworried about it all because it's so obvious Trump can't win. Again.

        AZ is in play- but for other reasons. (see Kyrsten Snema campaign last year)
        If PA and MI are in play for this reason- what about Ohio? Are sww in Ohio just ok with racism and the brutal family policies at the border?

        FL, GA and the Carolinas are going to vote R.

        2. In my travels around the council district I'm running in Englewood, not only are single white women telling that they will never vote for the GOP again, but older people are angry with Trump, McConnel, and Gardner, etc., etc.

          Let me tell you of an incident when I was passing out flyers house to house: I approached an older (late 70's) woman, I just started to hand her one when she asked what political party I belonged to. I told her that Englewood elections are non-partisan. She refused to take it still. She demanded that I tell her what party I belonged to. I did, then only would she accept my flyer.  She said she would "never vote for another Republican again, ever". She and her husband were very angry about Trump's behavior and actions.

          I have run into that repeatedly.

          Just a few observations about this subject.

  2. When a Republican tells you that Trump is an aberration…

    …Reagan is heard apparently referencing the way the Tanzanian delegation started dancing in the General Assembly when the UN took the vote to seat the delegation from Beijing instead of Taiwan.

    Reagan, Naftali writes, is heard saying to Nixon, "Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did."

    Nixon interjected: "Yeah."

    Reagan continued, "To see those, those monkeys from those African countries — damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes!"

    National Archives releases Reagan's racist call with then-President Nixon, ex-Nixon library director says

  3. “I don’t understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can’t do and shouldn’t fight for.”

    2. “I don’t understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can’t do and shouldn’t fight for.”

      Mental health professional call it non-delusional thinking.

      Seriously, politics is the art of the possible, not the fantasies of the gullible.

      Can you picture President Williamson telling people that their taxes will go up $200 to $500 billion to cut checks as reparations to the distant descendants of slaves? (This is not to say that reparations were not warranted – in 1865 or 1875 or 1885 – to people who were actually slaves.)

      Racism still exists today. Which is why we have affirmative action programs and anti-discrimination laws which give those who have been on the receiving end of racial discrimination in employment, education, housing, and public accommodations some tools to seek redress.

      And what of other racial groups who were treated in an appalling way. I'm thinking Native-Americans. With they too receive money for what was done to their ancestors.

      And, of course, how is the amount to be calculated. If a claimant is 100% Native American they would get the full amount of compensation, but what if someone is only partially Native American. Take Elizabeth Warren for instance. Would she receive only 1/16 the full amount of reparation compensation? 

      1. Those are all good questions (about reparations) and should be part of the conversation. All anyone is arguing for now is to have that conversation. An example that makes sense to me, though, is that of the present day residents of a little black town, whose ancestors were enslaved by Georgetown college, then literally sold to pay the college debt. The town is poor, and the college could improve the towns services or pay directly to the progeny. 

         

        1. MJ,  The idea of the conversation itself is what scares some people, because then, as you say, some of their questions and whataboutisms can be addressed, and some very unpleasant truths have to be faced.

      2. They need to start putting the MFA argument in the context of corn seed.  Will MFA/UH raise their taxes?  Yes.  Will it reduce their overall costs?  Yes.  Farmers buy $200/bag seed corn (as opposed to $100/bag) because it decreases our overall costs, reducing or eliminating pesticide and herbicide costs with a yield bump. Did that line-item cost go up? Yes.  Did their overall costs go down?  Yes. Did that increase in the cost of seed make us more profitable?  Yes. 

        Any corn or soybean farmer that mocks Warren's calculation is a hypocrite. 

        1. Trying to understand, but the MFA/UH thing has me baffled. Not a Masters of Fine Arts at the University of Hawaii…so… the only thing I found on Warren and Ag policy was that she wants to limit mergers and level the fields for smaller farmers.

          1. Medicare for All / Universal Health Care 

            Sorry for the alphabet soup. It’s a disease one picks up when spending too much time in the swamp. 🙂

      3. I personally believe the strongest and greatest reparations that could be provided today would be to, finally, ensure true equal treatment and rights under the law, in employment, in public accommodations, and in the courts for every person, all across the entire width and breadth of this country.  Not just talk about it any more, but actually do it.  And on the other side, take quick and appropriate corrective action against anyone and any governmental institution, officer, or official who fails to do so or ignores their duty to ensure it. 

        Get this going now, and most of the other questions will evaporate or take care of themselves.

        Money really isn’t what’s being asked for — proper respect and decency and the same promise for a future for everyone as was declared at the founding of this country:

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

        If we can’t — if we don’t — do this, any monetary reparations are just pissing in the wind.  And, until we do it, there will only be more harms requiring repairs until such time as we do, or that we destroy ourselves.

        Money is really neither the answer, nor is it the question.

        At the beginning of every day this country stands at a fork in a road (which also happens to be at the end of paths taken) . . .

         

        1. +10 Dio… I don’t know how reparations would or could  work. I’ve seen some suggested guidelines, like: must have an enslaved ancestor, must be able to show economic harm or discrimination. But the conversation is worth having, uncomfortable or not.

           

          1. Chris Rock once joked in one of his comedy specials, “There isn’t a white man here in this audience that would trade places with me . . . And, I’m rich!”

            I can’t speak for anyone, but the point behind the joke seems to me to be that even a large amount of money doesn’t offset disrespect and unequal treatment.

            40 acres and a mule was a hollow gesture, and eventually an evil sarcasm — a cruel and wicked joke of a rotten carrot dangled over the heads of starving men and women —  because it didn’t matter one whit what was given, when a racist and uncaring government and society permitted that pitiful allowance to immediately be stolen, extorted, misappropriated, by the very same racists and slavers; even while watching on in cheering and nodding approval.

            Reparations? Great.  Let’s get busy repairing by eliminating those perpetuated causes . . . 

            1. I'm probably a little too close to this to be unbiased but I like your summary, Dio.  I'm working with a group of black farmers in Alabama who are entering the hemp industry.  Their lands go all the way back to 40 acres and a Mule, which was a lot of land at the time given there were no tractors.  In 1920 we had 1 million black farmers, today that number is 45,000.  

              These problems, especially for the survivors, are real.  There land title in general is unperfected (it's considered heir property) and there isn't a sheet-wearing klansman in Alabama that isn't looking for the opportunity to steal their land through mechanisms at the local court house with their sheet-wearing friends.  I'm not going to comment on Marianne's math last night – I have no opinion on the 'number', only that we have some righting to do. 

              It's with no sense of irony, once again, that our occupant of 1600 Penn suspended plans to replace Andrew-fucking-'Trail of Tears'- Jackson-who-ended- the-40-acres-Mule program with Harriet Tubman. (because, you know, the black guy).

        2. So, all you need to pass a law is to write a bill.  Funny, I kind of thought you needed to pass it through both chambers and get the president to sign it.

  4. Colorado’s Jason Crow backs impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump

    U.S. Rep. Jason Crow said Tuesday that he supports opening an impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump, becoming the third member of Congress from Colorado to say so.

    In a 400-word blog post explaining his position, the freshman Democrat from Aurora drew on his combat experience in Iraq. He recalled meeting a man in 2003 who sought help resolving a dispute with a neighbor, knowing he couldn’t trust his country’s crooked judges. Crow says he heard similar hopelessness about government while on the campaign trail in the United States.

    “I didn’t run for office because I dislike Donald Trump. I ran because I love our country,” he wrote.

    “It’s that same pride in our democracy and respect for our constitution that fuels my support for an impeachment inquiry,” the congressman added. “We must complete the work started by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. It’s a solemn responsibility of Congress that the framers of our constitution included to protect the rule-of-law.” [emphasis mine]

    1. CNN lists Crow as #113 on their whip count for an impeachment inquiry. 

      Weeks of "district work" offer chances to influence the Representatives.  DeGette, Neguse and Crow are on-board.  Anyone have insight about why Perlmutter has not joined his Colorado colleagues?

      1. Anyone have insight about why Perlmutter has not joined his Colorado colleagues?

        Fear of Nancy Pelosi and/or respect for her opinion?

        All kidding aside, once the number hits 218, the speaker should give the green light for this to go ahead.

      2. Perlmutter was saying that investigations need to be completed first. So he should be all on board with the Judiciary Committee ‘s filing of an impeachment investigation , which gives more clout to those requesting records from Trumpy scofflaws. Nadler, as head of the Judiciary Committee, is backing this, and it may be a face-saving way for Speaker Pelosi to do what obviously needs to be done.

  5. At least he's not your totally, very definitely, absolutely, not-racist (in any way!)* senate candidate.

    *Despite the almost unbelievable number of people saying he’s racist. Oh, and the racism.

    1. Such lawsuits, unfortunately, are probably the only way that these people in charge of the baby jails will care…. DJT keeps on doubling down on the cruelty because he enjoys it himself? And/ or he thinks that his base loves it. DHS Sec. McAleenan keeps on lying because he gets away with it…. nobody really knows how many have died or been sexually assaulted in detention, because ICE says it is no longer obligated to keep records. 

      It is heartbreaking. 

      1. "Such lawsuits, unfortunately, are probably the only way that these people in charge of the baby jails will care…" I'm okay with that. Sue them until the snakes don't have a pit to hiss in. Let them explain to their shareholders why they're paying out multi-million dollar settlements to bereaved parents.

  9. Last night belonged to Elizabeth Warren as Bernie continued his slow but apparently irreversible slide into "Get off my lawn" irrelevance.  Tonight belonged to Biden.  Everybody came at him swinging, and he defended well.  But when you have 9 folks attacking one guy and the rules let him answer each attack, he dominates the time at the stage.

    We could be slipping into a two-way race between Warren and Biden.  With so many also-rans splitting the anti-Biden vote, that spells victory for Joe.

    I'd still prefer Amy or Kamala but Amy just can't catch fire and Kamala stumbled big time tonight.

    1. That assumes Bernie goes quietly which is a big assumption to make. He and Warren were blowing kisses at each other on Tuesday night – in large part because Bernie is still polling in second place behind Biden. But at some point, the two lefties will either have to reach some accommodation (i.e., SANDERS/WARREN '20 ticket) or come to blows with each other.

      If the two of them fight it out, it will be along cultural and socioeconomic lines. Bernie has the blue-collar Bernie Bros while Warren has the better-educated white liberals.

      It will be interesting to see how this plays out…..

    1. Hey, look…Dipshit is back.

      Got your AR-15 oiled and "cocked and loaded"? It shouldn't be long before your leader calls upon you to shoot your countrymen so he can be President for Life".

      I hope you are ready to fight and die for your fascist leader. He will expect you to do so.

      1. Pfixing his 3:00 a.m. bowl of Pfruit-Loops? . . .

        Warming up the old set so as not to miss any of the intro to the pfirst edition of the day’s run of PFOX & Pfruits? . . .

        Sleeplessly awaiting the beginning of the tweetstorm? . . .

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