2018-19 #TrumpShutdown Day 22 Open Thread

“Sorry losers and haters, but my IQ is one of the highest–and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure, it’s not your fault.”

–Donald Trump


56 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. davebarnesdavebarnes says:

    Bigger than Colorado–the whole planet.

    Ivanka Trump on List of Possible Candidates to Lead World Bank

    The Breibarters are excited, but not for the reason you think.
    They are hoping she gets the job so she has less influence on The Dumpster™ and he can MAGA.

    Too funny.


    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Andy Borowitz saw the announcement, and immediately pointed out how hard his job was getting, trying to compete with headlines like Ivanka being mentioned as a World Bank President.

  2. PseudonymousPseudonymous says:

    Congressional Democrats, a one act play:

    Exasperated Democrats try to rein in Ocasio-Cortez

    “Washington is a political animal where a lot of the work that you want to accomplish depends on relationships within the Democratic Caucus,” said Velázquez, who described herself as a “bridge” between Ocasio-Cortez and the caucus. “The honeymoon between the voters that you represent and yourself could be a short one. People want to see results.”

    “I think she needs to give herself an opportunity to know her colleagues and to give herself a sense of the chemistry of the body before passing judgment on anyone or anything,” said Rep. Yvette Clarke, a fellow New York Democrat.

    “She’s new here, feeling her way around,” added Rep. Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.). “She doesn’t understand how the place works yet.”

    “The chances that the Democratic caucus will stand by and watch its chair get attack and people piling on him — by Democrats! — is so obscene that I think you’ll find one of the strongest reactions that could possibly be anticipated,” Cleaver said.

    “It’s one thing” for outside activists to go after Democratic incumbents, Meeks said. “It’s another thing when you’re in this institution and you’ve got to work to get things done.”

    • PseudonymousPseudonymous says:

      The Exceptions to the Rulers

      In America, when people of color succeed despite the limits placed on them, and use their newfound status to indict the system for holding others back, they are held up as proof that the limits do not exist, they are denounced as ingrates, or they are pilloried as frauds incapable of the successes attributed to them. The exception is if they present their success as evidence that the structural barriers are not as great as they seem, and that in truth the only thing that holds back marginalized communities is their own lack of ability or motivation. If they affirm the righteousness of the class and caste system that they defied to succeed, they are hailed as heroes by the same people who would otherwise have denounced them as frauds.

    • Curmudgeon says:

      Good. I hope she's scaring a lot of them on both sides. 

    • ParkHill says:

      The quote I like (forget where) is that AOC speaks American.

      That is why she terrifies the conservatives. They are used to corporate-speak, or TV-speak or even Trump-speak.

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        I thought Whoopi Goldberg had the best comment about Ms. AOC (paraphrased): get some accomplishments of your own before criticizing others. 

        • Curmudgeon says:

          Suddenly, you're in favor of Hollywood people telling our elected representatives what to do? 

          • Conserv. Head Banger says:

            Really? How do you get to me endorsing comments of Hollywood types in general, just because I like one comment from one person? 

            Don't try to stretch too far. Your rubber band might break on you.

            • RepealAndReplace says:

              You must understand that Ms. AOC is the new "thing" in the Democratic Party and the idol of its ideological fringe.

              Much like Ted Cruz was the new "thing" in the GOP circa 2012 and idol of its ideological fringe.

              She will probably end up being equally effective.

              • Curmudgeon says:

                "Ideological fringe" of the Democratic Party? You mean, people who actually want them to act like Democrats?  

                I'm not saying the sun rises and sets on her, but Christ, the concern you people are showing is laughable. 

            • Curmudgeon says:

              Don't trip from backpedaling so hard.

              • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                No backpedaling at all, citizen, except in the foggy recesses of your mind. I stand by my comments. You, on the other hand, seem to be taking projection lessons from either Zappatero or Moderatus.

                • Curmudgeon says:

                  Right. Not like cherry-picking your brave stances.  AOC is a completely unknown quantity, but she has nothing but time and potential, and she's garnered attention that scares both sides of the Old Guard.  I think things are more than due for a shakeup. 

                  • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                    Here's an idea. Let her take a few weeks to find out where the ladies room is.  Then she liberates the bastille.

                    First things first.

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      I don't think she's the type to take advice from an old white guy.  Maybe that's why y'all are so insistent about putting the brakes on her? 

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      I grant you, curmy, that aoc doesn 't take advice.  Neither does Trump.

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      As I've said, I'm willing to see what happens.  Personally, I like that she's already giving the GOP and Old Guard Democrats the vapors.  

                    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

                      More for Curmies' comment..


                      AOC is like a tabasco and ginger enema for the Big Blue Dog. It has been sitting on its ass getting fat and rich. The problem with our Dem party is it has allowed its leadership to feast on the corporate teat to the point where they have no taste for anything bit corporate milk…

                      I want to see the Democrats in Colorado set an example by finally cancelling the lease the Oily Boyz have on the state capitol building. There was a time (pre-frackenlooper) when they did not have veto power on all state decisions involving their industry. It is time for our elected representatives to get a little fire in their bellies for the people who make this country work. Corporate interests are antithetical to human interests, unless carefully guided by people with motives other than maximum profit.   

                      They can start by repealing the fucking "Ad Valorem" tax credit  and earmarking that money for early childhood education.                             

  3. Diogenesdemar says:

    Trump Claims There Is a Crisis at the Border. What’s the Reality? 


    (PS to Owen Hill and his ilk: Don’t worry anout all those words you don’t understand, the pictures can tell you the story.)

  4. mamajama55mamajama55 says:

    Consider the possibility that $rump is deliberately trying to create a crisis, so that he can declare an emergency to "solve" it.

    Federal government not working. Thousands of agencies closed down. People losing their livelihoods and homes. How long before we have riots in the streets?

    Are our traditions of peaceful protest, the rule of law, and voice through representation strong enough to resist the coup that he's trying to achieve? The "coup" would be the elevation of the Executive branch at the expense of the other two.

    We've never had a President who has been an active traitor, and actively worked against the interests of the country before. Denial is becoming more difficult as evidence mounts – at least for those of us not enclosed in a Fox news bubble.

    • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

      I think it's just a squirrel to distract people from the Mueller report, due out any day now. Yammie-pie won't have to worry about the people in the streets with torches and pitchforks, calling for his head, if they're busy with a side hustle to make their mortgage payment

      • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

        Some local Dems talked me down from visions of Trump declaring martial law to quell civil unrest because of desperate people with nothing to lose, rioting in the streets. 

        My Dem peeps pointed out that 1. The National Guard obeys the Governors, not the President. Governors of most states, including Colorado, will not mobilize their Guards to teargas distraught civil servants. 2. The Federal military cannot be used against American citizens on American soil, and if they were so ordered, it would be an unlawful order that they should not obey.

        None of this precludes local jurisdictions from using local police to quell rioters. If this shutdown continues, we will see “shutdown” riots.

        Why am I obsessing on this.? My father vividly described the demolition and violence when DC troops put down the Bonus Marchers in 1932. It made a lasting impression on him as a young teen, of what government should and should not do. 


    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

      Trump is trying to practice disaster capitalism. Squeezing profits out of disaster is immaterial to the source of that disaster. He, his family, and his partners in crime have been running amok through the government, assuring themselves and their larvae vast wealth for decades to come, by exploiting the mayhem created by their pappy.

      How long the "Nuh-uh defense" (© my cat) will continue to work, is anybodys' guess. Not much longer, I'm thinking. Not many more willing to defend him..

      He should resign. Pence would then acceed as an appointed, lame duck president with a hostile congress. He will not survive a primary. Mittens will step in as the corporate donors Great White Hope…and lose to whomever the Democrats select. 

      Yeah…I like it.

  5. itlduso says:

    Jonathan Karl on ABC today said that the Mueller report will be “anticlimactic” regarding the Russia probe.  He claimed that Mueller “did not go anywhere with the FBI investigation”.. and that it will not be a “bombshell” report.  

    Store that for when the Mueller report does come out.  Just sayin’.

    • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

      Hillary Clinton is appropriately using her social media platform as former presidential candidate, secretary of state, senator, and presidential spouse to criticize Trump's excesses. I don't see a problem, or why she would need to "go away".

      • davebarnesdavebarnes says:

        Because too many people hate her.

        Every time she speaks up, we lose another potential voter.

        Invisible is the correct role for her.

        • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

          It's true that she isn't popular, but that is more a reflection of relentless Russian propaganda than anything she has done. Seriously, who actually gave a flying fret about her emails? I didn't like her being Comcast's candidate, but not many people know about that, or cared.

          I'm not a huge HRC fan myself, but she has earned her platform and should use it.

          • deathpigeon says:

            Ok, but she has issues well beyond her emails. Her position on healthcare, her positions on foreign policy, her history on criminal justice reform, her positions on immigration, and many other areas she's lacking if not holding pretty far right views (particularly foreign policy). Her biggest saving grace is she isn't her husband who's worse than her on every front.

            • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

              I agree with some of your critique; I was a Bernie supporter, and took a fair amount of shit for it on this forum and on kos because of it. However, my point is that HRC should not "go away" as davebarnes suggests. The article he linked to detailed HRC's opinions on the #Trumpshutdown, and I don't disagree with anything she wrote about that issue. Do you?

              I don't really see much difference between davebarnes and JohninDenver as far as their expressed wishes that powerful women be seen and not heard. Or, not seen.

              HRC and AOC are both doing a great job of representing their diverse constituencies.


              • deathpigeon says:

                If that was all she was saying, I'd get your point, but she argued for bombing Syria shortly before Trump did so, and that we should fight right wing populism by enforcing a harsher immigration policy among other things. She isn't helping.

                (Not that Bernie is much better on many of these issues, to note, and he probably should shut up and go away as well. Even AOC argues for the functions of ICE being transferred to other agencies instead of gotten rid of, which serves to neuter people's calls for ICE's abolition.)

                • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

                  I agree with HRC that bombing Bashir al Assad's air fields would have been appropriate, to prevent him from dropping Sarin gas on civilians. That's what she advocated for in the article you linked to. We're not going to agree on that one.

                  On what she wrote about migration – The devil's in the details; it's hard to know exactly what she was advocating for when she called for European countries to limit refugee migration.

                  Stopping humanitarian aid? Closing the borders? Requiring immigrants to wear red crescent badges? 

                  It does sound on the surface like a dog whistle for right wing populism, the European version of MAGA. If so, as a kid of an Anschluss refugee, (and someone who believes in humane immigration policies),  I'd vehemently disagree with her position.

                  • deathpigeon says:

                    US intervention abroad does not help. It almost always leads to increased deaths of those abroad, increased support for those we bomb, decreased support for the US, increased instability, and many other problems. We should end aid given to Assad, but bombing Assad isn't the answer, either. Intervention in favor of or against Assad will ultimately do more harm than good.

                    The issue isn't her dog whistling for right wing populism, it's for her supporting harsher immigration enforcement when immigration enforcement is far too harsh already and her arguing it would decrease support for right wing populists, which we have no evidence for.

                    No politician should get a pass on anything and none of them should expect to be public figures because of their past or current political work. Every politician should be shouted down and critiqued at every opportunity as none of them are on our side and all of them are ultimately our enemies.

                    • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

                      Every politician should be shouted down and critiqued at every opportunity as none of them are on our side and all of them are ultimately our enemies.

                      I'll just let that statement stand on its own. – with a gratuitous gif for my friend the (not)skinny cook….


                    • deathpigeon says:

                      I'll stand by it. There is no such thing as a good politician.

              • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

                Huh? where did I ever say something about someone NOT speaking out?

                I'm into First Amendment, more discourse is better, positions, and cannot recall ever suggesting women (of any level of power) be seen and not heard.  If I criticized either HRC or AOC, it should have been on substance, not on their right to speak.

                • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

                  I was responding to this comment. You appeared to be saying that AOC should not be put "front and center", and my point was that it is primarily Republicans who are putting her there. She's also very telegenic, does great sound bytes, and will continue to get plenty of media attention, so you'll have to get used to it.

                  Also, that her constituents elected her because she is brash, progressive, and outspoken. The freshman Congressional class is badass…which is exactly what their voters wanted them to be.

                  It’s good to see that you’re a “more discourse is better” guy. Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment above.

          • davebarnesdavebarnes says:

            The polls do not reflect the visceral hatred that many have towards her.

  6. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    Certainly, there is no such thing as a good anarchist.

    If by that you mean having ideas of any value in the real world.

    I still suspect the dead bird is a right wing troll parodying the goofiest possible left wing positions.

    • deathpigeon says:

      Nah, I'm legit.

      • VoyageurVoyageur says:

        So, you're going to stick with the stupidity defense?

        Seriously you should get together with j a dodd, the other professed anarcho — syndicalist on this board.

        • deathpigeon says:

          Y'know, when someone holds beliefs you disagree with, the options aren't "troll" or "stupid". Reasonable people can come to different conclusions and embrace different political positions than you without lying about it or being deficient in reasoning. Sometimes people are perfectly smart and honest and still wrong.

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            The stupidity remark was a joke.  But other than idle curiosity, I never engage with someone like you. I could have spent 1,000 hours trying to convince you tovote for Hillary and you'd still write in krupskaya. It' just not cost effective.

            It was not a joke to mention j.a. Dodd.  He is the other avowed anarcho syndicalist here.  He prety much vanished after the last election but you might find him interesting.

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        Deceased Sky Rat,

        I think you are a new stage name for Andrew Carnegie.

        • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

          Nah. Completely different writing style, subject matter, online persona. Writing style is hard to fake. Carnegie was mean as a snake, but sneaky about it, very deft psychological manipulator.

          Deathpigeon is not mean; their effect is along the lines of "This is what I think and who I am, and if you don't like it, too bad."

          Carnegie was a true troll whose purpose was to deflect, distract, and especially demoralize; the pigeon is deflecting but not demoralizing, seems to have more of a "Live and let live" online persona. Again, that's hard to fake.

          Both hate Hillary Clinton and her hubby, from completely opposite ends of the spectrum, which is amusing.

          I see plenty of these kinds of nihilist, all politicians are corrupt, attitudes in my high school students, and those ideas are pretty fashionable right now. Whereas Carnegie actually kind of idolized Ronnie Raygun, the Bushes, Rick Perry, and Ted Cruz, IIRC. All other politicians were corrupt and untrustworthy.

          Not likely to be the same person at all.

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