2018-19 #TrumpShutdown Day 21 Open Thread

Hug a federal employee today. They need it.

52 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Voyageur says:

    Beto O'Roarke is circulating a video of him getting his teeth cleaned on social media.  Let us all pray he never gets circumcised!


  2. itlduso says:

    The current list of thirty something possible Democratic presidential candidates is underwhelming to me.  That includes our own Hickenlooper and Bennet.  My tentative interest in Beto O'Rourke was damaged yesterday when I viewed his cringe worthy tooth cleaning Instagram.  It was as cringe worthy as watching Elizabeth Warren try to drink a beer.

    I heard an interesting idea the other day:  Why doesn't a Democratic candidate announce his/her running mate right out of the gate?  For example, I might be more interested (and think there might be more nationwide appeal) for say a Biden/O'Rourke or O'Rourke/Biden ticket than either one of them singly.  There are dozens of iterations of this.  Just sayin'.


    • deathpigeon says:

      Biden/O'Rourke sounds honestly horrible to me.

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        I kind of like it

        • deathpigeon says:

          What, an old racist and a young bland white guy, neither of which know how to make a stand on anything that matters?

          • RepealAndReplace says:

            That old racist (your term, Birdie, not mine) is leading the pack in the early polling. And he probably will be able to raise more than sufficient money to be competitive. The young bland white guy (your term, not mine) apparently excites millennials and inspires millions.

            As far as candidates willing to take a stand on anything that matters (your term, not mine), the white-haired Old Bolshevik is struggling now on how to handle a sexual predator on his staff. Hint: talk to former U.S. Rep Elizabeth Esty and ask her what not to do.

            And that other candidate who takes a stand on things that matter to you, Elizabeth Warren, shot herself in the foot with the DNA test only to be outdone by that silly video of her getting herself a beer. She looks like Dukakis riding in the tank.

            If she had said that she was pouring herself a glass of Merlot and asked her husband if he wanted one, it would have looked more genuine.

            • deathpigeon says:

              Leading the pack and exciting people is no substitute for having good policy positions and a good voting record, both things which Biden and O'Rourke lack.

            • deathpigeon says:

              Lol at you calling a moderate like Bernie an "Old Bolshevik" and, like, yeah, fuck Bernie, the imperialist swine he is, but that doesn't mean Joe "shit on Anita Hill in her Senate Judiciary hearing and passed a shit ton of racist policing bills" or Robert "takes fossil fuel money and applauds the border patrol" O'Rourke are any good.

              • Voyageur says:

                Unforfunatel y, your preferred team of Stalin and Bakunin is dead!

              • RepealAndReplace says:

                DustPuppy DeathPigeon ….. I think the statute of limitations ran out on Biden's failure to protect Anita Hill back around when Barack Obama selected Biden as his running mate.

                I am guessing a number of people on  this site who are professed Sandernistas had no difficulty voting for him for VEEP.

                As for calling Bernie Sanders – a self-avowed Trotskyite – a moderate, well, I think Voyageur summed it up best.

                You are the Tea Party of the Left. You are so far off the field you see the edge as the center.

                • deathpigeon says:

                  Bernie isn't a trotskyite, lol. He doesn't even believe in revolution. He's just a milquetoast social democrat.

                  The Tea Party were a group of rich people funding far right candidates within the Republican Party, not poor far right dissidents critical of the Republican Party, but not a part of it, lol. I'm a communist, not some reformist trying to save the Democrats from themselves.

                  • Pseudonymous says:

                    Anyone to the left of Hillary is a tankie to these folks.  Saying, "Hey, we really should make sure everyone can see a doctor" is the equivalent of trying to do a second October Revolution.

                    • deathpigeon says:

                      I mean, to be fair to them, I literally am a far left communist who believes in a final end to the state and capital through global revolution.

                    • deathpigeon says:

                      Like, you're right that lots of people make that sort of accusation for moderate social democrats, they were doing it for Bernie, but, in my case, I literally am a communist (tho not a tankie), so it's not like they were totally wrong.

                    • Pseudonymous says:

                      Certainly.  I was only talking about Bernie, who, as you note, would be easily at home in the middle left in the UK or Germany.

                    • deathpigeon says:

                      Oh, yeah. He's well to Corbyn's right (despite Corbyn being a cop loving social democrat) and he'd be in the SPD, not Die Linke (not that Die Linke is all that great).

                    • mamajama55 says:


                  • Diogenesdemar says:

                    "I'm a communist . . . "

                    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                      "I'm a communist……"  Yes, that worked out real well in the old Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Cuba. 

                      "Meet the new boss; same as the old boss."

  3. JohnInDenver says:

    Trump's going for the record of 21 days, but it will have an asterisk next to it because it is only a PARTIAL government shutdown.

    The shutdown matches the longest stoppage yet: a 21-day closure that ended Jan. 6, 1996, during President Bill Clinton’s administration.


    p.s.  You remember what happened the LAST time we had a shutdown this long, right?

  4. davebarnes says:

    A tiny link to Colorado.

    Steve King is worried that:
    "We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies."

    While Tim Tebow imports a mail-order bride from Africa.

    The Dumpster® does not know whether he approves (hot Miss Universe) or disapproves (murderous immigrant from a shithole country).

    Life is too funny, sometimes.

  5. itlduso says:

    Saw a report on CNN claiming that illegal immigration was drastically reduced between Egypt and Israel after a 150 mile fence was built.   But it was also noted that laws prohibiting employers from hiring those immigrants were also passed.  Sounds like EVerify to me.  When was the last time you heard anyone mention EVerify during the shutdown?

    • davebarnes says:

      Chris Matthews on MSNBC is fixated on eVerify. Mentions it all the time.

    • deathpigeon says:

      Ok, but that's assuming illegal immigration is a problem we need to solve. Maybe EVerify and a border wall could stop it (EVerify probs could and a border wall deffo wouldn't), but that doesn't mean we should get either. Israel also has snipers shoot unarmed Palestinian protesters and that probably discourages protests, but discouraging protests isn't a good thing and nor is shooting at unarmed protesters, so its efficacy doesn't mean we should adopt it.

      • itlduso says:

        Illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be solved.  I'm not advocating a wall — merely citing the CNN report.

        I am advocating the required use of EVerify.  US employers hire undocumented workers with impunity, including Trump at his NJ golf course.  EVerify, coupled with significant penalties for not using it, though not perfect, would be a major step toward ending this problem.  It's also good politics for the Dems.  Which Dem presidential candidate is going to promote this? 

        • deathpigeon says:

          No it isn't. People entering this country, regardless of if they're doing so legally or illegally, is not a problem. It has numerous economic benefits and preventing it requires us to engage in massive harm against many people. The only "problem" with illegal immigration is that it is illegal.

          • itlduso says:

            Well you’re representing about 5% of the US population with those views.  The rest of us who like to win elections expect reasonable border security augmented by EVerify.

            • Pseudonymous says:

              I think deathpigeon is making the moral case rather than the electoral case.

            • deathpigeon says:

              I don't actually care what percentage of the US population shares this view. Closed borders to any degree are demonstrably harmful and based around mass violence against immigrants all to combat something which is beneficial to everyone which does no violence. People who support border security and border policing are incorrect about basic facts about immigration and support a policy of mass harm.

          • mamajama55 says:

            I’m going to come in on your right for once, and advocate for reasonable border controls. There really are terrorists out there who want to cause havoc and ruin America. (Other than the President’s Russian friends, I mean). 

            Most of the foreign terrorists overstayed legal visas. Most of the domestic terrorists are white male citizens with mental health issues, right wing politics, and unlimited access to mass-murder capable weapons.

            Criminals are a small fraction of the immigrants crossing the border – most really are economic or climate refugees, or are fleeing gang violence in their home countries. But there are some. I am in favor of knowing who people are and where they’re from and why they’re here. I’m not down with the completely open borders concept.

            • deathpigeon says:

              "Terrorists" account for almost none of the immigrants we get and represent an extremely low risk to anyone living here, less risk than driving your car. Immigrants also commit crime at a much lower rate than existing residents, so it doesn't make much sense to single out immigrants for screening for criminals compared to residents. Neither foreign terrorists nor immigrant criminals provide us with a rational reason to support immigration controls or border security. Reasonable border controls are no border controls.

              • mamajama55 says:

                Disagree – but appreciate the sentiment. I see a great deal of harm and unnecessary suffering because of present policies, due to the people I work with. 

                If our society really practiced “family values”, then we wouldn’t be intentionally breaking up families. At the same time, I don’t want the cartel thugs to have free range in our communities- , and they definitely exist , even if American drug war policies created them. 

                They are not nice people, and Central American folks are smart to get away from them.

                Perhaps it would clarify the debate on borders if you could define what “no borders” looks like in your vision – no barriers, no checkpoints, no passports, no bureaucracy?

                • deathpigeon says:

                  Cartels are the people least effected by border security because they have their own infrastructure for getting people across borders and getting goods across the border which generally allows them to entirely bypass any existing border security. They have tunnel systems, paths, launchers, etc for getting across borders unmolested which normal immigrants do not have. This means that any border security system powerful enough to stop the cartels will be doing massive undue harm to normal immigrants.

                  Ideally, there'd be no national/state division, but, given the reality of states, nations, and division, porous borders not unlike the borders between US states or between EU countries within the Schengen Area is what I'd prefer accompanied by simple and easy methods for anyone to become a citizen upon moving to a new country and no differences in the law based upon your country of origin (for example, not allowing people not born in the US to run for president should be scrapped). Moving from Mexico to the US shouldn't be much different from moving from Nebraska to Colorado or from France to Germany.

  6. Pseudonymous says:

    Colorado Supreme Court to release ruling in pivotal oil and gas lawsuit

    The Colorado Supreme Court will release its long-awaited ruling Monday in a case that could dictate how the state's oil and gas regulators weigh environmental and health concerns in their decision-making.

    A coalition of municipal, environmental and health groups wants the Supreme Court to require the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission to ensure the protection of the environment and people before issuing permits for oil and gas drilling.

  7. mamajama55 says:

    Breaking news – absolutely chilling – the FBI opened an inquiry into whether Trump was a Russian asset – per NYT breaking news today, reported by Chris Hayes.

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