Tuesday Open Thread

“The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous.”

–Niccolo Machiavelli

63 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. dwyer says:

    This is another term being used by people calling in to talk radio for the Caldera strategy to get rid of the Romer appointments on the State Supreme Court. FYI

  2. DavidThi808 says:

    Details here but the bottom line is if you bought anything over the net (like from Amazon) that did not have sales taxes included – you owe the state and your local government use taxes.

    I know as strong supporters of government we all want to pay all of the taxes we owe.

    • sxp151 says:

      Sounds like a huge pain in the ass in order to write a check for $2.50.

      • DavidThi808 says:

        Wow, if I find filing and paying taxes a bigger pain than the amount warrants I can choose to not do it?

        To get serious, why do you think it’s any less of a pain per dollar for a company to handle this? It’s a larger total but composed of a ton of small purchases so it’s a lot more work. We’re doing it but it’s costing us a bunch of time.

        • sxp151 says:

          It turns out this was just another excuse to try and bash someone slightly to the left of you without actually reading a comment. I thought you were asking for honest responses.

          Ooh, clever you!

          Seriously, I don’t know why I bother replying to your comments. Half the time your responses are based on the first three letters of my user name rather than anything actually in my posts. You’re an old man, quit acting like a fucking child.

          • DavidThi808 says:

            The law is the law. Why do you think it’s ok to not pay a tax because you find the effort onerous? What’s childish about expecting people to pay the taxes they owe?

            • sxp151 says:

              I just treated your post like an honest question and admitted a personal vice. Nobody else bothered to respond to your obvious trolling, but I figured “What the hell?”

              And your stupid comments on Bayh yesterday are the reason I’m pissed, I don’t actually give a shit about this. Maybe I’ll be guilted into paying my $2.50, I don’t know.

              You’d think a company would have compliance officers who figure out what’s owed and then pay it. If your employee is incapable of doing this, why not fire him/her to motivate the others better?

              • DavidThi808 says:

                I take it you’ve never worked for a small company – we don’t have “officers” for anything. Everything operations is 1½ people.

                We pay our use taxes. And I think it costs more in time spent here determining it than the dollars we pay.

                As to Bayh, I think he was a giant PITA also. But he was our PITA and a big problem I think we have with finding agreement is on both sides we look to replace those squishy moderates with people more to our liking.

                • sxp151 says:

                  prevent me from telling you how to run your company? If it costs more to determine how much your tax is than it costs in paying it, you’re doing it wrong. I could probably figure out your use taxes in an hour on Thursday; it’s just adding numbers together, right? I can add numbers together. Anyone who can’t do as great a job as I keep imagining myself doing should be fired.

                  And once again you’ve missed the point on Bayh, which I clearly articulated in both posts that you ignored. There are plenty of Democratic Senators who get things done with Republicans: Kennedy, Feingold, Wyden, etc. Then there are people like Baucus and Conrad who actively try to get Republicans involved in things. Those people may succeed or fail on any given initiative, but they have had at least some successes with their strategies. Bayh just kept starting conservative clubs which never accomplished anything except getting his beautiful face on the news. THAT is my problem with him. And it would be equally true if he were the most liberal member of the Senate and never accomplished anything in a dozen years.

                  • DavidThi808 says:

                    My first comment was I found it funny you thought we would have not just one, but multiple compliance officers (whatever those are). Small companies don’t have a whole lot of administration.

                    As to the charges, if you want to go through all receipts, some printed, some electronic, to find those that did not charge sales tax – that would be great. My operations person is going through several hundred and would welcome the help.

                    As to Bayh, I didn’t like a lot of what he did either. But I also think pushing out those that aren’t progressive enough is a mistake. Primarying them – sure. But just pushing out, that I think hurts us and reduces people in the middle.

                    • sxp151 says:

                      It’s not because he’s not progressive. It’s because he’s ineffective.

                      There, it rhymes. Try putting it to music and singing it to yourself so you can remember.

                      And I won’t help your operations person. If s/he really needs the help, s/he deserves to be fired. Anyone can look at receipts and copy numbers off them. Tell your operations person to do the job faster, more accurately, and for less money. Clearly s/he is not motivated enough.

                    • DavidThi808 says:

                      The trick is finding all the statements. Once you’ve got them all, then it’s easy.

                      As to Bayh, I understand and agree with you that he spent most of his time ineffectively posing in the middle. I just don’t find that a reason to kick him to the curb.

                    • sxp151 says:

                      it’s because every single one of your weekends is miserable? It’s because you sleep on different bedsides weekdays and weekends?

                      Did you really not get that’s what I was doing? Satire, man! Learn it, live it, love it.

                    • DavidThi808 says:

                      I advocate firing incompetent teachers for the same reason that all private sector companies fire incompetent employees.

                      However in the case of teachers, an incompetent teacher seriously harms the future of the children entrusted to their care. So it matters more than it does for most jobs.

                    • sxp151 says:

                      it seems you’re more concerned about keeping the others in line than in which ones are incompetent.

                      Interestingly this is not a strategem you would use in your own company. Because it’s stupid.

                    • DavidThi808 says:

                      But this conversation is going nowhere. You like the present system where no teacher can be fired because it gives you ironclad job security. There’s nothing I or anyone else can say to get you to reconsider that.

                      And this will be my last post on this thread as it does neither of us any good to continue.

                    • sxp151 says:

                      because you have no fucking idea what actually applying your ideas in any other context would actually entail, yet you imagine your own success entitles you to declare yourself an expert in everything.

                      Oh wait, sorry, I forgot only you can get personal when it helps you in an argument. Never mind.

    • redstateblues says:

      how did Libertad get access to your account Dave?

      • DavidThi808 says:

        People like SXP are all in favor of how everyone else should pay their taxes, but he should get a bye because it’s a hassle. It may be $2.50 each, but across 3 million residents that’s 7.5 million.

        • Fidel's dirt nap says:

          “A January 17 analysis of Enron’s financial documents by Citizens for Tax Justice finds that Enron paid no corporate income taxes in four of the last five years– although the company was profitable in each of those years” – Citizens For Tax Justice, 2002

          Shouldn’t the IRS be going after Fortune 500 companies that don’t pay their fair share ?  I mean, at least before they implode ?  And you’re worried about SXP’s $ 2.50.

          This reminds me of your “postage stamps are poll taxes” issue.  

          Sometimes you can’t see the forest for the trees David…

          • DavidThi808 says:

            But it does annoy me that these laws are passed which inconvenience all and there are people who support the laws, but then blow off following it themselves because it’s a PITA.

            I’m hoping it gets people to realize that the effort required of business, not the check written, is many times the large problem. And personally, I wish instead we had just income tax. Much simpler to handle and if the total check is the same, what’s the diff?

            • Steve Harvey says:

              There are ways of simplifying the tax code without making it any less just and progressive, eliminating the insane tangle of tax credits (which could be just as easily framed as tax penalties). People don’t understand that wherever you levy the tax, you are always taxing people. We should design the tax code to be most economically efficient, have the fewest drag effects on the economy, encourage behaviors which create a net benefit to society (eg, using renewable and effecient energy) and discourage behaviors that have a net cost to society (eg, using hydrocarbon-based energy), and make it something that anyone can fill out and file in an hour without stress.

            • Fidel's dirt nap says:

              I work for a small S corp with 3 others.  The unemployment insurance, payroll tax, etc. is a pain in the ass. Plus we have other daily reporting requirements since we are an exporter.

              I just feel sometimes that no one is going to have respect for tax law if major corporations are paying almost nothing. If they aren’t doing their part, and sometimes break the law to dodge paying, why should I care ?  I’m not going to break the law but I sure am not going to pay more than I should in order to subsidize some shitbag.

  3. peacemonger says:

    A friend of mine read Pols yesterday, and when we met for coffee, she said,

    “You’ve been praising and defending Andrew Romanoff in conversations for years. Until today, even though you’ve been an outspoken Bennet supporter, you always tell me you still respect Andrew Romanoff and think he is wonderful, blah, blah, blah… What happened that today you sound different than the last 9 years?”

    Here’s my answer:  I am tired of the whining. Andrew and/or his supporters whined when he wasn’t selected as Senator (as if Governor Ritter didn’t have a right to appoint whoever he wanted — hmmmmmppfff!), whined when he wasn’t selected as Lt. Governor, whined when Senator Bennet wouldn’t debate him twice in the same week (the nerve — it’s not like the guy has a famiily and a full-time job 1200 miles away!), whined when people held him accountable for the tone of his campaign or the people he hired…

    Has anyone ever heard Senator Bennet whine over the difficult job he had to do post-Bush administration with little support from his home state?  No — he just went to work, worked like a dog, built a strong record, earned the respect of the President and other MOCs, says nice things about Andrew Romanoff, and turns the other cheek when Romanoff has a tantrum at a pro-Romanoff gathering.

    No thanks — I don’t care for any whine with my Senator. I want a grown-up Senator representing me in Washington. I have one now.

  4. peacemonger says:

    he also whined that the President didn’t love him as much as he loves Michael Bennet.  Give me a break.

  5. redstateblues says:

    So if you didn’t feel like making the trip down to the Auraria campus, or you did, and you were surprised to find they ran out of tickets, then have no fear.

    Still don’t know exactly how we’re going to do this. I thought we could make a new account, but then I remembered that new accounts can’t post diaries for 72 hours or something. I may end up making a twitter account for Voyageur and I, but that presents another set of problems as I wouldn’t know how to get the feed readable on Pols.

    Anyone have any suggestions?

    • Middle of the Road says:

      and then just post each candidate’s replies in the comments where people can then reply to your comment if they have questions.

      Just title the diary Live Blog Senate Debateor something like it and then start a running commentary in the comments section–that’s usually what they do at DKos.

    • Voyageur says:

      to simply log in to pols on our laptops with our normal signins.  We do one diary, an intro piece, which MOTR has pledge to front page.  Then, we simply file updates as comments from our respective accounts.


       Live from St. Cajetans on the beautiful downtown Auraria campus, the Young Democrats tonight host the first face to face debate between U.S. Sen. Michael Bennet and his challenger, former Speaker of the House Andrew Romanoff.

      (new) Moderator Aaron Harbor asked both candidates their position on health care.  Bennet, answering first, said he is committed to winning approval of a plan even if it costs him his seat.  While he strongly favors a public option, he feels it is even more important to establish some beginning framework, noting that the original Social Security system also had many flaws.


      new–Romanoff said he favors lowering the age for Medicare to zero and would vote against any plan that did not at least include a public option.


      new Bennet said Romanoff’s all or nothing plan would simply ensure nothing — and a possible Republican takeover of the Senate.


      etc.  etc.


      my main fear is that I won’t be able to log on to Auraria’s gerbil-in-a-cage powered wi-fi system with my aging Apple powerbook or, if I do, Pols won’t recognize me as a standing account and won’t let me post.  

      but if we can both get logged on, I think that posting the candidate responses as simple comments to the dairy is the way to go.  RSB leans to Bennet and I lean to AR, so I will report on Bennet and RSB on AR, hoping to reduce the risk of bias.

       I plan no commentary external to that offered by the candidates themselves.

      It should be fun.  Pols readers should know that, between us, RSB and Voyageur have at least 45 years of professional journalistic experience.   OK, OK, that works out to 45 years to voyageur and none for RSB.  But, on the other hand, he still has his hair, the rat;-) If we can get on line, a good time should be had by all.  I’ll try to get there about 7 p.m. to work out any broadcast bugs.

      If I can’t get on at all, I’ll settle for taking notes and posting a diary when I get back home to my faithful desktop.

  6. ClubTwitty says:


    AUSTIN – The State of Texas ratcheted up its attack on the Obama administration’s environmental policies on Tuesday, filing suit against the EPA over a declaration that could broaden government enforcement of carbon dioxide emissions.

    Gov. Rick Perry, Attorney General Greg Abbott and Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples announced the lawsuit at a joint news conference to declare that the two-month-old declaration is based on bogus conclusions and could cause billions of dollars of economic damage in Texas

    ….Abbott said the finding is legally unsupported because of the agency’s reliance on the International Panel on Climate Change, which has been accused of basing its findings on discredited research and false claims.

    Critics have contended that intercepted e-mails from British scientists suggest that data were distorted to overstate the dangers of global warming. The release of the e-mail conversations gave rise to what later became known as “Climategate.”

    “The EPA should not blindly accept what the world has begun to second-guess,” said Abbott.

    Dallas-Fort Worth has been struggling for years with an ozone pollution problem, linked to automobile traffic and industries. State regulators have conducted tests showing that toxic chemicals are being released from some natural gas wells in the Barnett Shale field, which surrounds Fort Worth.

    • MADCO says:

      ANd when Texas secedes, or nullifies, or whatever it is they think they can do,  I want to keep all our bases and Federal infrastructure, staffed only with American’s from the remaining 49 & territories.  No citizenship.  A wall and some pipelines. That’s all I want from TX.

  7. ClubTwitty says:

    “We’ll be strong, free, prosperous and safe,” Romney writes in an exclusive excerpt obtained by Fox News. “But if we do not face them, I suspect the United States will become the France of the 21st century, still a great country, but no longer the world’s leading nation.”


  8. JO says:

    From CNN:

    The message from the new CNN poll out today couldn’t be more clear: if you’re an incumbent politician in America these days, you’d better shape up or you’ll be shipped out by angry voters. As in other polls, respondents in the CNN survey continue to support removing incumbents from Congress. But for the first time in a long time, their own representative wasn’t shielded from the throw the bums out mentality.

    • JO says:

      New Haven Independent http://www.newhavenindependent

      Barack Obama shouldn’t expect an invitation from fellow Democrat Dick Blumenthal anytime soon: Blumenthal said in a New Haven stop that the president “may not want to come here” to stump for his U.S. Senate campaign, given how independent he claimed he’ll be if elected.

      That turnabout in partisan loyalty emerged Monday night as Blumenthal continued tacking away from his liberal roots -including through newly expanded support for military tribunals for domestic terror suspects.

      Not to quote a trend or anything, but word is tickets are still available for the Fillmore this week…

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