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October 27, 2009 04:11 AM UTC

McInnis: No Debates With Penry

  • 82 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

(Bumped into Tuesday with additional thoughts – promoted by Colorado Pols)

From Politics West:

GOP gubernatorial candidate Scott McInnis told the Associated Press this afternoon that he has no plans to debate fellow Republicans Josh Penry and Dan Maes.  This, of course, means that staffers/supporters of his opponents will start descending upon McInnis events wearing chicken suits and holding signs that call him “Chicken McNugget” or “McChicken,” or some such…

Apparently, ‘it would just give the Democrats ammunition.’ From the AP report cited:

GOP gubernatorial candidate Scott McInnis on Monday refused to share the stage with his chief party rival and said he had no plans to debate him before next year’s primary…

“We don’t see any use in debates for Republicans in a family discussion taking shots at each other,” McInnis said. “This is an in-the-family situation, and we want to talk about the issues and not give the Democrats the bylines for their commercials.”

…Until Monday, Penry held out hope for at least one debate.

“If you can’t stand in front of a friendly crowd of businessmen, what are you going to do when the bullets are flying and the stakes are highest? It’s silly,” Penry said.

Despite what you might think at first glance, this is actually very bad news for Penry, because it shows that McInnis is confident enough in his own internal polling and campaign operation that he doesn’t view Penry as a legitimate threat anymore. Penry may not be able to keep up with McInnis in fundraising (he came in third behind McInnis and Gov. Bill Ritter in the Q3 fundraising period), and he’s been flailing away with talking points that consistently contradict each other.

Candidates ignore opponents when they don’t feel like they have anything to gain by engaging them (in 2004 Ken Salazar rightly refused to debate Mike Miles because there was no upside for Salazar in doing so), and it sets the tone that McInnis is the frontrunner. Even if McInnis isn’t completely confident that he is well ahead of Penry at this point, this is a smart political move to set the tone and put Penry on the defensive in the position of “also-ran” (note how McInnis lumps Penry in with Dan Maes, the latter, of course, being completely irrelevent).

Penry needs to respond to this, and fast, before the narrative becomes permanent.

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82 thoughts on “McInnis: No Debates With Penry”

      1. It’s a reference to grocery sacks.  You know…the Working ManВ® and all that…

        Seriously, though.  Get real, McInnis.  Not debating?  Why’d you go into politics?

        1. I don’t think anyone doubt’s his debating skills, if you’ve seen him in Congress you know he can and will. Maybe even a little too much. His point is that there is no point in debating when all it does is help the Democrats.  

          1. “I believe in less government which is why I would like to be a part of the government. I believe we need to have the freedom of choice that only less government can provide which is why I oppose the right to choose… or marry. I also think we need lower taxes but I wholeheartedly support the soldiers fighting a war against the evil-doers. The free market reigns supreme which is why we should subsidize drilling and agriculture. blah blah guns and FAIL”

          2. Mad debating skills — what’s in doubt is his ability to stay calm and keep from melting down on stage with cameras rolling. He’s wise to avoid the possibility, hothouse flower that he is.

            Of course, that’s just the kind of shrinking violet we want running against Ritter and — even! — running the state.  

          3. He’ll need to learn to taste the rainbow at some point.  This is Colorado, not the Majority Leaders anteroom.

            Here’s the story to go back to the boss with.  

            The newspaper publishers need to sell papers.  This debate blockade has become the story and without the publishers ability to report on debate issues, his blockade has become the story.

            Donors, media, etc… have begun to ask what’s wrong with his principles, why won’t he debate, is this temperament problem an issue, why won’t his values appeal to a cross-section of voters, why the smoke????

        2. You don’t engage your opponent and give them free press or traction if you are confident that you are far enough ahead of them in polling, fundraising, etc. This shows that McInnis thinks he is sufficiently in the lead that he has nothing to gain by standing side-by-side with Penry. Bad news for Penry.

          1. that McInnis truly is that far ahead. If on the other hand McInnis has misjudged, then he’s pissing away advantage.

            McInnis appears to be trying the Sarah Palin approach – don’t talk to anyone unscripted. Don’t allow any questions. Absolutely don’t get sucked into any debates.

            Anyone else remember how Palin’s numbers dove South? Amazingly quickly.

            1. David, you’re drawing a sweeping comparison based on a wee similarity.

              McInnis talks to the press, he appears before groups and answers questions, he’s constantly on the phone with key Republicans — it’s nothing at all like Palin’s stealth candidacy.

              And even if McInnis has “misjudged” his advantage, by not deigning to debate Penry he helps perpetuate whatever advantage he has. Act enough like the unquestioned front-runner, and soon enough, the legend takes on a life of its own. The only people who see through that have already declared a preference so aren’t in play.

    2. As dirty as it makes me feel to agree with you, anyone who won’t let his arguments be tested in debate, especially among his friends, does not deserve election – period.

      The optics of this couldn’t be worse, but maybe from his point of view it’s better than popping  a blood vessel like he did on Caplis and Silverman.

      http://coloradopols.com/showDi…

      Yeah, that’s probably why…

      1. …the ground you walk on sickens me…

        (ok, just kidding.  Trying to go all JeffcoRed on you)

        Would you want a Dem that refused to debate a primary opponent because of some perceived fundraising edge?

        I’m thinking no.

              1. Of course, I mean McInnis- not L. Boy.

                Seriously, I’m not worried I don’t know the candidates’ positions and that I need to in order to decide how to lean in the primary.  This state has corrupted the primary process so that those of us who don’t register as R can’t caucus nor vote in the primary.  

                Of course, there are numerous others who can’t caucus – those who work for judges or the legislature, and others who are legally required to maintain neutrality.

                I could never caucus or primary until I registered with a party in 07 so I could caucus in Feb 08. Odd- the last primary I voted in was the IL R primary in 1980 (yes, of course, I voted for ol’ Dutch)

                I don’t want to debate, our D opponent in the gneral could use what we say against us

                BooHoo.

  2. I can see his point…when opponents go at eachother on the same team it doesn’t help in the end. If the GOP wants a winner then why have the other primary opponent take a crack at him and help out the Democrats? You don’t have to debate to win an election, your views are still going to be out there. McInnis has done forums with Penry so it’s not like he’s avoiding him, he just doesn’t want to get caught up in the political pinata game. With or without debates McInnis is still the stronger candidate.  

    1. And I disagree about the stronger candidate.  And he is totally avoiding him and acting like a freaking Dem in doing it.  We’re Republicans, for crying out loud. Stand up for yourself.

      It’s not like it could possibly be worse than the Holtzman/Beauprez goofiness.

      2. More like a libertarian or constitutional party. Those guys never f**kin debate.

        The greens, on the other hand, they’ll throw down anytime. At least they picked the right color.

        1. .

          the Constitution Party candidate on the ballot dogged the Dem and Lamborn for months for a debate.  

          Finally the Dem realized that all his TV ads with Rick Duncan Strandlof weren’t getting his name out in front of the public enough, and he lowered himself to debate the ACP guy.  

          Cleaned his clock.  I’ve still got bruises.

          These two even had a couple events with a cardboard cutout of the Congressman.  

          After all mail-in ballots were mailed back, Lamborn agreed to one joint appearance with the other two, but only if his fan club ran the event.  Thanks, Newsman.  

          At that joint appearance (not a debate, format controlled by the fan club) Congressman Lamborn said that he thought we should stay the course in Iraq until we achieved military victory over our enemies.  That was in November 2008, after Prez Bush had already conceded defeat with the withdrawal agreement.  

          How is that a Conservative position ?  

          I digress.

          So, hard to see the connection betwixt your slam on the ACP and local reality.

          That’s all I’m sayin’.

          .

          1. but the point was more a dig at how little visibility the other parties and their candidates  get.

            And in the immediate context, the implication would be that the ACP or L primary candidates should debate each other in their respective parties’ primaries.

  3. or, if this is solely his decision, then he is an absolute idiot. He appears gutless in refusing to debate his opponents.

    Republican voters deserve to know his positions and how they differ from the other candidates and have every right to expect a forum which includes all the candidates, not just two out of three.  

    2. Remember, this is the same guy who — as a House member — wigged out and called the Capitol police for protection when some octagenarian geezer on the Dem side of a committee they both served on called Scooter a “fruitcake.”

      1. I forgot about that. You have the best memory of about anybody that blogs here, you know that?

        Seriously for a second, I can see waiting until next spring to debate. No sense in burning everyone out on the race too early. But after reading that article, it appears to me that he’s flat out saying he won’t be debating at all, ever and that just strikes me as balless. To paraphrase the Great One (better known as LB) he needs to man up.

          1. never meet people from the internet.

            Or crazy R congressmen who send lewd text messages,  “walk the Appalachian trail” or threaten to beat on Pete Stark.

      2. Pete Stark would have kicked his ass.

        If my memory is even close- the R’s on some committee or other jammed through some last minute, middle of the night, change to some previously bi-partisan agreement.  The D’s got up and left the room- except Stark who stayed behind to shout and argue.

        Which somehow turned into McInnis claiming he feared a ass whuppin’.  Or something.  He would have got it to – Stark is crazed when it comes to cheating, lying R’s.  

        1. Stark “threatened me with physical harm,” said Rep. Scott McInnis of Colorado, a Republican who sits on the committee.

          “I think it was entirely appropriate for the chairman of the committee to call the sergeant at arms and the Capitol Police,” McInnis said. “I considered that a bodily threat and I fully intended to defend myself. To calm this down — that is why the chairman did that.”

          http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOL…

  4. Scooter is a tool, but I must also say that I rarely find debates enlightening.  It’s not as if there aren’t other, more productive ways of learning a candidate’s positions on various issues, if you really want to know ’em.

    1. It’s time for the candidate to tighten down the bolts; this race is an 18 month endeavor to outshine all other comers.

      The candidates avoidance is distracting to the media who have begun to ask questions.

    2. I’m back – had to get in at least 5 hours sleep.  This is a big to-do about nothing as usual.  Why should there be a blood letting or are you one of those that would rather win a Primary than win next November?  

        1. County commissioner pays a lot better.

          Harmon actually did a little reporting and found fundraising totals for this story showing McInnis’ take in other nearby Western Slope counties. Scooter kicked Penry’s smartass.

          Not surprising at all.

    3. I’m here.  Had to have at least 5 hours sleep.  This whole thing is much ado about nothing or are you one of those Republican’s that would prefer to have your boy win the Primary and lose in the General next year?

      1. clearly, you should be the one who decides what is or isn’t news.

        I could not care less which of the multiple R candidates shows up to debate.

        For example,  Penry should debate Maze if McInnis won’t show. It doesn’t change the answers or the questions, but it changes the perception of the campaign.

        But I think this is news. And that RWCR or whatever they were, was not news.  It’s not news because it should be. It’s news because it’s almost exactly the kind of thing voters think they should care about.

        While I’ll admit the future is uncertain and unknowable, it’s hard for me to imagine myself voting in the R primary.  Hence- I don’t care.  But as a bystander who will likely be voting in the general and as a political observer in general, I think it is newsworthy.

  6. Voters want someone who will fight for them. And they want someone who will work their ass off for them. I’ll agree that many debates don’t illustrate a lot (but some do). But it does show that a candidate will work & fight.

    McInnis is going to come off as both a chicken and one who feels entitled to the job. You won’t win with that.

    Penry will be out there working every day for it. He’ll get beat up at times in some of his events, interviews, here on Pols, etc. And he’ll keep working. The voters will respect that.

    Nixon’s team found he gained more votes when he faced hostile questioning than when he was lobbed softballs. McInnis is throwing away any chance he had.

    2. Not to mention drama and spectacle.

      “You sir, are no Jack Kennedy”

      “Where’s the beef”

      “Oh, shut the fuck up you little twirp”

      And other debate gems.

      1. I googled your last debate gem and only got an English-Spanish translation.  I’m dyin’ to know that debate!  I think it had to involve Dick Cheney…

            1. googling it. With quotes, without quotes, with quotes in certain places, etc.

              This is why we at the blog hate uncited factoids. Because we’re all so obsessive that we’ll go looking for them otherwise.

              And by “we all” I mean “me.” And by “obsessive” I mean “compulsive.” And by “hate” I mean “love,” since I’m being nice today.

  8. In front of a group of far right activists, in order to avoid getting booed off the stage, McInnis would have to take a whole bunch of issue positions that would be completely out of the mainstream.  The decision may hurt him in the primary, but it will protect him from appearing as an extremist should he get to general election.  

      1. A couple of times she’s been primaried by a far right candidate. She has debated and stated her positions and eloquently listed her reasons for supporting them. The far right nut cases go insane, vote for her opponent – and the majority of Republicans in her district vote for her.

        If she ran away from those debates, I’m not sure she would win.

  9. Maybe people are confused between forums and debates.

    Debates are when the candidates ask each other questions.

    Forums are when the audience gets to ask questions.

    I prefer the latter, since as a voter, I’d like to know the answers to my questions not the answers to the candidates questions.

    McInnis apparently was on the stage with Penry this past Saturday and I’m sure they will again soon.

    So, having my question asked is a lot better than them asking each other questions for me.

    2. But plenty of debates include questions from the audience (or did you miss the entire 2008 campaign season?).

      McInnis just doesn’t want anyone holding him to account for his answers, which is what could happen in a debate.

  10. that O’ H Penry knows which closets the skeletons are hidden in from his years of being nurtured and mentored by Scooty.   Might prove embarrassing for the congressman.  And even as McHenis ignores what he created, O’ H Penry will continue to nourish himself on the McKoolade.



    This be a rare occasion where I agree with LB.

  11. A better response would have been–‘sure, we’ll do debates–when it’s time’ without really making a commitment.  Lil’ Josh is running as the ‘insurgent up and comer’ and McLobbyist as the ‘experienced elder.’  THis plays into Josh’s meme and makes McInnis look arrogant and ‘entitled'(‘it belongs to me!  begone gnat!) and Josh as the person standing up for the party base, democracy (small ‘d’), etc.

    The papers will make this the story until Scooter relents.  

    Of course, he can always agree then ‘suspend’ his campaign to deal with an ’emergency’ and try to weasel out of the debate at the last minute.  

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