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May 25, 2017 06:26 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“An oath will encourage fidelity in office only to the degree that officeholders continue to believe that they cannot escape ultimate accountability for a breach of faith.”

–James L. Buckley


39 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. A stinging rebuke this morning from the Billings Gazette

    "We believe that you cannot love America, love the Constitution, talk about the importance of a free press and then pummel a reporter. 

    Beyond that, if Gianforte didn't have the good and common sense to simply walk away from questions he didn't like, we cannot believe he's going to be able to make much more difficult, complex decisions when he's in Congress.

    In no way would we want our readers or our community to believe we stood behind what appears to be an assault or an attack. 

    We do not, and we do not endorse Gianforte."

        1. The delicious irony to me is that the eyewitness account that backed the Guardian reporter's complaint came from none other than a Fox News TV crew.

          Their account blew the campaign statement out of the water.

          With any luck, it'll help the GOTV in the university towns of Missoula and Bozeman and put Quist over the top.


    1. Interesting read. Sounds like the farmers want to blame the minimum wage, but then you see this:

      Taylor says more than 90 percent of our hired farm workers– come from Mexico, but we’re seeing 150,000 fewer farm workers each year.

      “Young people growing up in rural Mexico are getting more education that gives them a ticket to higher paying jobs that demand more skills and provide them with more stable employment than they would get in agriculture. This is a case in which what is good news for Mexico, is bad news for CA farm work,” said Taylor.

      President Trump has raised tensions on immigration with his plans to build a wall at the Mexican-U.S. border and although he says he will protect the U.S. farm industry– the fear among these workers is real.

      1. How can you be such a nitwit? Of, course somebody will pay. You will. All consumers will. Do you think the corporate CEO is going to cut dividends to shareholders? Do you think the board will accept cutting its profit margin? No, of course not…they will raise the price..and you will wind up paying much more for your food. It is the price of purity.

        It works the same way with healthcare…someone has to cover that 35% margin enjoyed by Big Insurance..that's your job.

        1. The question remains, will you pay for avocados and lettuce so farm workers will have a living wage? Or will you stop buying them.

          1. It's a false choice. Yes, the true cost of producing food is much higher than what we pay, when all environmental and health costs are factored in. For the most part, it isn't consumers who pay, either. Migrant workers could get paid and treated better with only modest increases in prices. It's why we need regulations – EPA and worker's comp and OSHA. It's why Trump is freaking WRONG.

            Farmworkers who get sprayed with pesticides or workers whose lungs get damaged so you can have yellow-tinted butter-flavored popcorn absorb those costs, and for the most part you never know.

            I'm all about the cost savings on the fruits and veggies. There was a food co-op, Bountiful Baskets, which met every other week here. Participants got a bushel of fresh veggies, not necessarily organic, but pretty great. Now, BB is still seeking local vendors in Colorado, since "buying local" is the next best thing to buying organic as far as impact on the planet.

            We have a relatively short growing season here on the high plains so the vendor challenges are real.

            Yet there are ways to eat health – consciously and still advocate for higher wages and better conditions for farmworkers. Not all are $22/hr – that appears from the article to be a specialized wine-maker skill.

            1. I'm sure Bountiful Baskets is a worthwhile charity but your response does not address the question. If the demand for labor exceed the supply the producer can automate or compete for labor with higher wages, benefits. The cost of avocados and lettuce will increase. If the price of avocados and lettuce is inelastic, consumers will purchase something else. If the price of avocados and lettuce is elastic, consumers will continue to purchase avocados and lettuce. It makes a difference for the farm workers. So your guacamole and taco salad determines if the worker will get a living wage.

              I find it interesting that as a hard core progressive you are interested in migrant workers getting a modest increase, not quite an endorsement for a living wage. 

              1. You're not really good at that mind-reading thing. I think both wages and working conditions need to be livable, with modest decreases in profits. This can be accomplished with meaningful health, safety, and working conditions laws and regulations. Just what your guy Trump wants to get rid of.

                Child labor was considered essential to industry profits…until it was outlawed. That happened because of union organizing.
                Some processes can be automated, decreasing need for workers while maintaining profits; some cannot. It's not possible to generalize what should or can happen in every industry.
                By the way, consumer co-ops are not charities.

                Neither are farmer, employee, or any other kind of co-op. It’s a way to share costs and profits. It works on a small scale.

                My point in bringing up BB co-op is to show that there are ways to hold costs down on food, while simultaneously polluting less (local vendors = less carbon burned in transport). It’s possible to have real win-wins – it takes planning, intention, cooperation, and good government.




                1. PP, I believe MJ has made it clear you THAT I'm the only one alowed to read her mind…

                  What's that, Dear Heart?

                  But, but, I don't have a horse…smiley

                  1. You're not good at mind reading, either, but at least you can spell, and your intent is benevolent. Your horse may proceed unmolested.

                    1. . . . because the horse has a much better record of correctly judging trollish character!?!

  2. Here's a suggestion to the RepublicanTs:  Be more like Reagan.  That is, leave Medicaid alone and go for your tax cuts for the wealthy and increases in defense spending.  I suspect a projected 5% GDP growth rate will cover any deficits.


  3. If nothing else has become clear over the last month or two, it's how very safe it is to have industrial petroleum production in close proximity to residential areas.

    3 injured in oil tank explosion in Mead: 'It was like 2 bombs going off'

    Edit: looks like one person died in addition to the three injured

    Mountain View Fire Battalion Chief Roger Rademacher said three workers working on site were injured and transported by ambulance, one with serious injuries and the two others with moderate injuries.

    Officials on Twitter said there are no hazards to residents and there are currently no evacuations.

    According to a Weld County sheriff's news release, the oil tank battery is owned by Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, which is currently under scrutiny for owning a well linked to a deadly Firestone house explosion on April 17.

    Pockets of flammable methane gas found near Firestone house explosion that killed 2

    Two high concentration pockets of flammable methane gas have been found in Firestone's Oak Meadows neighborhood, where one house has already exploded, according to the state's vapor test findings.

    Mitigation is underway, with PVC venting and extraction systems set up in both locations.

    "Monitoring point data indicate that methane in soil is not migrating to occupied residences," the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission presentation says.

    1. And they want to put 24 freaking wells right next to a K-8 school, Bella Romero Academy, in Greeley. #Nobellawells

      Cause who cares if poor kids get their lungs and brains, and now possibly bodies, damaged by methane emissions?

      If a Muslim endangered these kids, AC, Pompous Pyrus, and Moderatuss would be all up in arms. But it's an oil and gas company, so it's all copacetic.

    1. The DNC is doing a great job.  Can't wait until 2018.

       During an interview with DNC Chairman Tom Perez on Thursday’s edition of MSNBC’s “MTP Daily,” host Chuck Todd asked Perez why he didn’t take the Montana special election for the US House “seriously” sooner, and told Perez “you didn’t put your money where your mouth is.”

      Todd said, “[Y]ou caught a break here at the end. … But the question is whether the Democrats were there in time to take advantage. I know it’s late here. But you look at the spending advantage. The Republican Congressional Campaign Committee has outspent the Democrats 3 to 1. The Republican PACs, including one led by Speaker Ryan, has outspent the Democratic PACs in this race 16 to 1. Your own organization would not tell us how much money you’ve spent, but the RNC has spent almost a million dollars. The fact of the matter is, why didn’t you guys take this race seriously earlier? You did — you have lately, but you — the money, you didn’t put your money where your mouth is.”

      1. Can't argue with that. DNC still doesn't trust its grassroots folks.

        And it was hard to argue that putting an inexperienced folk singer into Congress would be better than an experienced guy.

        Sort of like electing as President a blowhard real-estate magnate who relies on manipulating debt and blowing off his creditors. Could never happen, right?

  4. Gianforte holds back on a first class ass whipping of a rude snowflake reporter by breaking his glasses. Montana votes for a manly man who sets boundaries for his personal space.

        1. MJ: don't get too carried away here. Passionate Prune obviously doesn't understand Montana politics. Dems had a weak candidate. Gianforte failed in his first attempt at elective politics. PP also won't understand how Montana went strongly for Trump last year, but still re-elected a Dem governor.

      1. Now if he drove the reporter in his car when he was drunk, drove into a lake, left the guy to drown while he sobered up he would get reelected for the rest of his life, if he were a Dem.

        1. That's your story and you're sticking to it, hey, noodledick?  Say, how'd your mom's court hearing come out?  I'm with you on that one, btw.  Prostitution is a victimless crime and they had no business arresting your mom in the first place.

          1. Andrew loves him some ancient history. Full story goes: "never go riding in a car with (the late) Ted Kennedy; never go hunting with Dick Cheney." 

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