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October 05, 2007 02:28 PM UTC

Open Line Friday!

  • 59 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“And don’t forget, Sherrod Brown is black. There’s a racial component here, too.”

–Rush Limbaugh, discussing then-Rep. Sherrod Brown (white)

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59 thoughts on “Open Line Friday!”

  1. Denver voters who are being besiged to fork over more money to the city voted a mil level increase four years ago for Denver Public Schools.  $20 million a year! What happened to that money?  I was shocked to see that the Board of Education expects to save $3.5 million a year by closing 8 schools. They were supposed to have five times that amount to put into these underrolled schools, every single damm year.  Where the hell is the money?  Did it go into the pension fund?  Did it go into cronies’ consultatnt pockets? 

    What kind of fools are denver voters?  John Boy smiles pretty and we give him whatever he wants?  Now, granted, I am on a fixed income and so even if the additional taxes were well spent, it would be a stretch for us.

    But this crap about more money when no one can explain what happened to the $20 million extra every year that voters gave DPS, is crazy.

        1. But this is the exact reason why I am so against tax/bond/refs. I pay more than my fair share in taxes IE: property tax, inheritance tax, sales tax, income tax, bullshit city water run off tax, etc.
          But everytime I turn around we are bombarded with pleas for more money. And each time I wonder what happened to all the money they just got the year before.
          It gets old.
          I agree with Dwyer although it doesn’t affect me. And the funny part of this is the new advertiser, “Yes on Issues A-1” are doing that exact same thing to the people of Denver.

          I expect to see the same thing coming around here in the Springs soon.

          1. People in 47 states pay local taxes at higher rates than Coloradans.

            And, if I recall, Gecko, you and all your sons have received educations that were heavily subsidized by the rest of us (and I am honored to have been able to help you and your family with this).

            Quit yer belly-achin’

            So … do you want to step up to make sure you live in the greatest state in the greatest nation? Or are you going to continue to pretend that you (and your boys) got to where you are “on your own?” [refer to education subsidies above BEFORE you reply]

            So, step up. Or step out.

            1. You have me confused with someone else.
              I went to school in Illinois………graduated from high school in 1974 and went to work. That is it, I have been working since then. No college, no other public funded schooling of any source.
              My wife went to a junior college back in the 70’s in Texas and paid for it with her own loan money.
              And out of my three sons, the oldest went to work part time at 15 and full time when he graduated high school. No college.
              My second oldest is in UCCS. I pay for his books and other incidentals. He pays for his schooling and apartment by working almost full time, and his own personal loans. (That he also pays off from his work)
              My youngest son also never went to any sort of college.

              So if you mean you helped fund my kids high school, yes. But so did I. (Because of the bullshit teachers union monopoly on regular schooling, even if I sent my kids to a private school, I would still have to pay for everyone else’s kids through taxes.)
              If you think you paid for any higher education, you are sadly mistaken.
              Go bark at someone else, because I probably helped pay your way, not the other way around.

              1. you need to think about the concept of inflation.  The cost of books alone has gone up astronomically (but then Bush’s good buddies like the McGraw family of McGraw Hill Publishing have to make their millions by publishing NEW BOOKS for districts so they can meet the testing requirements of Bush’s NCLB.  And then they require students in poorer schools to be (formerly) tested at least four or more times a year outside of CSAP.  And lucky us, another of Bush’s good buddies, one who helped author NCLB got out of the administration, opened a company just in time to create those Dibels tests so many schools now use.  You do understand that schools have to pay for those testing materials and for the books needed so that kids can meet the NCLB requirements….they are very specific.

                And computers.  Parents want their kids to be computer literate.  Big companies sell cheaper to schools but funny thing about those software companies and computer companies.  Every time Microsoft comes out with a new operating system, the educational software doesn’t work.

                And of course little things like roofs on buildings, up keep of boiler systems, AC for computer labs etc. cost money.  One year, because of people like you dominating in my school district, our roof at our school was so bad, every time it rained or when snow melted we had to put over 15 buckets all around the school. 

                Reality check, Gecko.  It’s not the 1970s any more. 

                Maps have a life span of about two years before countries change names, change boundaries. Furniture, while being built cheaply (planned obsolescence) is expensive. 
                And yes, teachers demand decent pay.  Funny thing about that….you put out $40,000 (if you go to a less expensive school) for college and then people say you are overpaid when your starting salary is $27000. And you are required by the state of CO to continue getting (and paying for) more credits all the time. 

                In 40 years of teaching, I never spent less than $300 per year out of my own pocket for materials.  And my MA cost me nearly $10,000.  In forty years, it was only the last 8 years where I was not either going to school, teaching summer school or working in some other way to make a little extra money.

                So please spare me the “I already paid…” cause I paid the same as you and so did everyone else.  It’s called community. Oh wait, I forgot, your people don’t believe in community.

                2. And I see he doesn’t have the guts to say he fucked up.
                  He accused me of living off the tit of society by going to college on someone else’s dime.
                  I didn’t. That is my point.
                  And as far as schooling goes, I pay as much if not more in taxes to fund the black hole known as union dominated public education as anyone. So I did pay my own way.
                  I am not complaining except for the fact that there should be more options out there. If I wanted to send my kids to a different school, I should have been be able to, but then I should be relieved of paying taxes to send other kids to public schools.
                  It is a monopoly run by a union.

              1. By the way, it’s spelled response.

                We in the progressive community are going to work forever if necessary, to achieve true community, lasting peace, and economic justice for every man, woman and child brought into the world.

                For those with blinders on, take them off and be a witness to the possibilities G_d granted humans. Live to your potential. It feels great! I am a witness.

              2. I haven’t responded to you yet Gecko because:
                1) I was working
                2) Then I went to dinner with my wife
                3) And, I really don’t organize my life around your belly aching.

                So, please show me where in my earlier post I said anything about college? Or where I asked you to “step up.” Quite frankly, I was just stating the true and obvious. I really wasn’t asking for or expecting a response. The fact that you felt a need to “respond,” and needed me to notice and validate your response, only reinforces my point.

                BTW, I don’t, and never have, had any children in public schools. None the less, I am honored to have helped with the expense of educating your sons.

                (OTOH, I admit, you probably have paid more than me since if you are making $60k per year as someone else hinted, you are making quite a bit more than me.)

                As for your wife and son “paying for” college. Don’t try to fool me that tuition at public colleges actually comes close to covering the actual costs of education. It’s subsidized heavily by the rest of us. Look it up.

                And, the residents of at least 47 other states do pay state and local taxes at lower rates than Coloradans. So your sob stories don’t cut the mustard.

                You’re welcome.

                1. I didn’t look back at my original post. I guess I did ask you to step up. I also noticed that rather than do this, you chose to side-step.

                  Typical.

            3. Why the hell are you working?  If you paid an IT, you are in the upper income strata.  I think something like $2M for your parents to even start the tax.

              2. Maybe it is technically not considered an inheritance tax……..when my dad died he had some property sold that a company was making payments to him on.
                That of course was passed on to myself and my three siblings. A good portion of this money (we’re not talking about a ton of money here) is interest. And I have to pay taxes on that portion. So maybe I called it wrong. It can maybe be just considered income tax? I’m not sure.
                Oh, and originally the lawyer said anything over one million, I think, would fall into that true inheritance tax bracket. Then uncle sam really fucks ya.

                1. I can say that very few estates pay estate taxes.  I think out of the 4 or 5 million people (I’m doing this from memory) who died in 2006 only about 13,000 estate paid dime one of estate tax.  Of those that pay a tax most don’t pay that much because they still get the exemption.

                  The exemption has been moving up (that’s why it was $1mm for your dad and now its $2mm).  The estate tax will disappear completely for a single year in 2010, but will revert to the $1mm in 2011.  Why you ask? In order to make this tax break for Paris Hilton not bust the budget they had to sunset the law.  The GOP intended to come back and make the elimination permanent later but that is never going to happen now.

                  This tax break for Paris Hilton is worth about $30 million dollars to her alone by my estimates.  As her parents and grandparents kick the bucket her ability to bore us with her antics will be funded with this tax free windfall.  In a country founded on work it offends me.

                  Before you say but “those dead people earned it, they should be allowed to create an entrenched aristocratic leisure class for perpetuity” or however you would say it.  Do you realize that if there is no inheritence tax we will have to INCREASE taxes on working people by $30 billion a year to make up the shortfall.  Thats the choice a tax on work or a tax on sloth.

                  To those that argue $30 billion isn’t a lot of money (Bush thinks its too much to fund for childrens healthcare for 5 years) lets break it down that will fund 1. enough MRAP’s to replace every soft skinned vehicle in Iraq (MRAP-Mine Restistant Ambush Protected- armored vehicle for protecting soldiers against IEDs) 2. properly immunizing the approximately 1/4 of all children who are not immunized in this country for the next 30 years saving us billions in healthcare costs over their lifetime. 3. Pell grants for 6 million working class kids to get scholarships for college.

                  Or maybe Paris Hilton deserves to win the ovarian lottery because of who here parents were.

                  1. Well said. 

                    I had an experience when I moved out here to right wing Colorado Springs.  One of my best friends met and married someone from the exclusive old Broadmoor community.  So I ended up socializing much more often than I would have liked with these people.  We were in our twenties.  I was a teacher, active in my local organization which they looked down at…”how could I support unions.”  Now I grew up in a family where factory work was the norm, where I was the first of my family to go to college (and only a few in my parent’s generation were able to graduate high school). 
                    Interestingly, my mother worked in a textile mill that was non-union (because a lot of violence happened when textile mills try to unionize in the north and then many of them moved south….and later out of the country).  I saw first hand how the women (mainly immigrants like my mother ) were treated.  It was awful.  And when my mother was forced by an injury to leave in 1969, her salary was less than $2000 per year.  Even though she was injured at work, she got little more than a month’s salary as compensation and this was after my Dad and I had driven her from company doctor to company doctor.  Basically they wore us down. 

                    Anyway then I hear these rich jerks talk about how people should be like them…they started their own businesses and worked hard; yada yada…anyway the point is this.  People like this, just like Paris, actually think they “earned” their fortunes.  They ignore the fact that their parents give them however much they need to start their business…or introduce them to the right millionaires.

                    And then they resent “their” money being taxed?  My mother worked harder in a day than Paris and friends will work in a lifetime.  She didn’t ask for handouts…just for decent and fair. 

                    When I hear people complaining about “death taxes” and spinning it as if they are above the rest of us, I see red.
                    George W. didn’t do crap.  Paris Hilton is a freaking spoiled brat.  She whined over unfair treatment? 

                    Any way, thanks for the explanation.  If Paris Hilton doesn’t have to pay taxes on inheritance (Ovarian lottery..love it), why the heck should any of us have to pay taxes on any lottery we win?

    2. It is a very rare occurence when Dwyer and I agree on an issue.

      Any time I deal with city government (or DPS) I am appalled by the wastful spending I see. And now they wnat 1/2 billion more? Not on my ballot they don’t!

      1. I have always found you straightforward. Your information is accurate and freely given….even if I couldn’t figure out the icons on your website.  We  may disagree, but I respect you.

        1. They make sense to people who have reason to go to those areas. The “Donkey 2008” icon is the only one that goes to anything poltical. The rest of them dwelve into my other life an a genealogist and are generally connected to books I have written over the past decade or so.

      3. Denver City Government and the Denver Public Schools are separate entities.  BUT, they both draw from the same tax base.  They take turns with the increases.  Hickenlooper actively worked for the last DPS mil levy increase. So it is legtimate to ask for an accounting before okaying any more money for govenment purposes from that same tax base.
        And if I’ve got that wrong, I expect Dan Willis will do the necessary correction; but, I think that that some of the measures depend on a property tax increase.

        The issue here is not about not wanting to support education.  The issue here is what the hell did Bennet do with the $20 million additional dollars, earmarked specifically for art and music education and “revitalizing underperforming school?”  That was new money, ok’d in 2003.  Where did it go? That was not a one time cash influx.  That mil levy increase puts that much money into DPS coffers every single damm year.  So why didn’t the kids at Remington get a school nurse?  I am very angry that the voters of this city approved a lot of money for kids and evidently that money did not go to help the kids or improve their schools. I don’t like that one damm bit.

        If Bennet and the BOE can not improve schools when they have $15 million dollars a year, specifically for that purpose, how the hell can they do it with $3.5 million?

        AS for the A-I campaign….the money to support these tax raising issues pours into denver…every pr firm and political consultant winds up rolling in dough for the duration…I think it is the equivalent of the old “walking around” money…..there is NO organized opposition to the A-I proposals…as far as I know….

        So David, if at all possible, could you refrain from sticking your Boulder nose into Denver business…..if you want to come down here and live and vote..okay……but this view from the top of the flatirons is getting old.

        Finally. ColoradoPols:  What exactly does it mean that YES on Issues A-I is an advertiser? They pay for space on the website.  Do they get anything else?

        1. So David, if at all possible, could you refrain from sticking your Boulder nose into Denver business…..if you want to come down here and live and vote..okay……but this view from the top of the flatirons is getting old.

          But hey, I’ll stop if everyone outside of Boulder stops making fun of Boulder (because I know that will never happen).

          1. I do not understand Boulder.  I talk a lot about CU..but I am a member of the alumni community..so I think I have the right.  I certainly can’t control what other people do, for god’s sakes…..

            This is big time serious stuff in Denver…and if people who know what is going on want to post, I would appreciate it…..I don’t know what is going on with the money….nor do you.

          2. Boulder’s too rich for rippin’ on – y’all make it waaayyy too easy to poke fun at you.

            But Dwyer is correct, I also don’t see how DPS is going to solve anything with an additional $3.5 mil.  They close schools that are underachieving and send the students to other underachieving schools.  The DPS board is filled with politicos who should all be voted out for not doing their job. The teacher’s union is ineffective and DPS administration is a money pit.

  2. If you’ve ever heard of doing such a thing, or are considering it, don’t hesitate.

    I used Dr. (y Dra.) Botella in Cd. Acuna.  I had three molars with old fillings and some new cavities routed out and repaired with new ceramic fillings.  Dra. Botella did most of the work, two hours of intense concentration and I felt, no shortcuts.  No way to prove that, just my sense.

    I then had an ultrasonic cleaning, had a simple wisdom tooth extraction, and extraction of two old roots from a root canal long gone bad.

    Total bill, $305.  There were less expensive marketed to American dentists in Cd. Juarez, but I understand that Dr.
    Botella’s prime real estate, first building after the bridge costs some bucks.

    It appeared to me that they take all precautions on health safety.  They have a camera that puts images of your teeth on a computer screen, so you can see exactly what he is talking about and before and after shots. 

    I experienced absolutely no pain during or later except for one Novocaine shot which he explained he couldn’t use a topical to proceed it. 

    I found out that an uncle of mine, a retired physician who has always had a home in Guanajuato for many years, always gets his work down while he’s down there.

    So, take a Mexican vacation and get that dental work done!

            1. You are an idiot.  Why do you say that?  I would venture that the doctors Botella are a lot smarter than you are.  What a disparaging ass.

              1. LMAO

                This was not bashing doctors in Mexico, it was pointing out that the vast majority of Mexicans dont make much money and hence have a low standard of living.  While you may be happy that you dont pay much for Mexican services, remember that part of that is because few Mexicans enjoy our standard of living.  They make an average of less than our minimum wage which is why they are cheaper.  You are clearly not very bright if you dont realize this. 

                And FYI, I’ll venture a guess that I am a hell of a lot smarter than you are.  I would not have brought that up, but you seem to like the pissing contest.

                Why do I waste brain space on you Parsing??? 

                1. certainly I’m not smart enought to answer that.

                  Although Mexico is very poor, there have always been middle and upper classes.  There is a whole new wave of technocrats and young Mexicans who are well educated and live pretty well.

                  AS to Dr. Botella “not even making minimum wage,” I’m sure you get your knowledge on this from somewhere other than your butt.

      2. For starters, it is hard to sue, but that’s essentially moot.  All medical malpractices suits, settlements, and awards are less than 1% of the total US medical bill.

        Their education costs far less.  No Porsche in the parking area; in fact I watched la doctora depart on foot.  Three chairs in one large  room so that they can share the various tools. 

        No insurace billing specialist to pay for. 

        A generally lower cost of living, that’s why retireees often choose to live in Mexico.

        To imply that these people are inferior because their prices are lower is insulting.  If, indeed, it was inferior work, why would my retired physician uncle use them?

        Try again.

        1. ..may be less than 1%, but the insurance against those payouts is astronomical.  My friend’s wife in her first year as an OBGYN paid $180,000 in malpractice insurance.

                1. You’re so completely irrelevant, GB.  Quit while you’re behind.

                  How does anything that Rush Limbaugh did with prescription drugs raise the price of going to a doctor in the US?

                  Nothing.

                  You are an angry, unknowledgeable, shrieking fool.  I’d swear you’re a plant from the GOP – you’re so irrational that you make the left side look ridiculous.

                  I know! Let’s box for charity – I’ll give $1000 to Code Pink if you win…

                  🙂

    2. Need to get to Mexico sometime, although with my insurance I don’t need to go to such lengths… Are there any good sights to see there? Because if there isn’t than the travel costs alone would bring up the total expense to something comparable to what an American dentist would charge.

      1. my dog got sick last trip to Mexico and we took her to the vet, the care was way better than any care we have received here. She got shots of antibiotics and anti tick med plus 20 days worth of pills to follow up (she had lime dieses) for $40.
        I was amazed how great the care was, then equally amazed at our bill.

      2. There are dentists set up in places like Mazatlan that combine vacation and dentistry. 

        I don’t recomend Cd. Acuna for a destination unless you are in southeastern Texas.  It’s a dump.  But I got a little Mexico fix before I’m stuck in Florida for a few years, probably.

        Just like so many political issues, it’s interesting how our conservative friends on this blog ignore the facts and just sneer and diss. 

        I notice a pattern, I think.

  4. Hi;

    A couple of years ago I read a couple of studies that showed virtually no corelation between spending and results in public schools. Now that I need it of course, I can’t find it.

    Anyone know of any urls with legit studies on this issue?

    thanks – dave

  5. This may be why Democrats have left certain egregious violations of the Bush administration unchallenged:

    “Do you think the ultimate irony might be that all the work that Dick Cheney has done will make Hillary Clinton the most powerful president in the history of the United States?”

    h/t Jon Stewart

      1. What makes you think that they are planning to leave office?

        Those who cast the votes, they decide nothing. Those who count the votes, they decide everything. — Josef Stalin

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