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August 23, 2007 02:13 AM UTC

Novak on CD-2 and Fitz-Gerald

  • 47 Comments
  • by: BusterS

( – promoted by Colorado Pols)

Robert Novak, in his latest Political Report took a look at Colorado’s Second Congressional District. Here is what he had to say about Fitz-Gerald:

“Fitz-Gerald is an elder stateswoman of Colorado Democrats, a powerful parliamentarian and old-fashioned Democrat. She has behind her the infrastructure of her party, which has recently gained the governorship along with both chambers of the legislature. She is the establishment candidate.”

Comments

47 thoughts on “Novak on CD-2 and Fitz-Gerald

  1. Who cares wha Bob Novak has to say about anything?

    BusterS, go and find someone who actually knows what they are talking about and not just repeating the talking points. Bob Novak is no Patriot, and certaintly no Journalist. He’s an old washed out DC gossip hack.
    http://www.thenation

    1. I see you attack him instead of contesting the accuracy of his article. It seems to be a pretty good description of the race to me. Do you really dispute anything he has to say about the CD-2 race?

      1. he could analyze whether there is cheese on the moon or not and I still wouldn’t care what his opinion was.

        If he wants to label Fitz-Gerald as the establishment candidate and Polis as the million dollar kid who can buy his seat; and Will as just some outsider without any background, I find it as ridiculous as Raf’s comments on MyDD.

        1. There’s nothing in the Colorado section of his piece that’s negative towards any of the three candidates or Udall.  I hate Novak too, but when he writes something entirely correct and coherent just ignore it instead of trying to find something to criticize when there’s nothing there.

          1. The messaging BusterS is trying to use here isn’t one that positive for Jared, but rather negative for Fitz-Gerald. He wants to paint her, the same way Raf did on MyDD, and through Bob Novak of all people.

            If the thread were state “Great News for Polis, Novak present Polis as the greatest Democratic threat in this campaign” to win the seat, I’d be all for it. But instead BusterS rather try and use a hack like Novak to create a black sheep out of Fitz-Gerald as if having party support was a bad thing. It’s hard to believe Polis supporters would repeat Bob Novak, let alone try to paint the party as a bad thing just like Raf did.

            I will read it, comment on how I perceive it, and let it go from there to be debated because that’s exactly what’s done on this blog. Im not going to sit back and let someone tell me, if you don’t agree don’t comment.

            1. Or at least I’m not.  If your problem is with Buster, then fine.  But dont try to act like Novak mischaracterizes the CD2 race in his article.  Calling him a hack when he’s wrong (which him is most of the time) is one thing but doing it b/c you support JFG and disagree w/ Buster doesnt make sense.

        2. If he declares that gravity will pull us towards the center of larger objects will you find that ridiculous? Too me, it pretty much summed it up. What was incorrect about it?

  2. I’m confused, is this supposed to be a negative? Establishment Democrat means what exactly? She has the support of Unions, she’s Pro-Choice, supports GTLB rights, will fight for social security. Sounds like a good candidate to me.

    So since Jared’s supporters are trying to position him as the non-establishment candidate I guess it’s safe to assume that he is on the opposite side of all of these issues.

      1. Again, it’s how BusterS put it up “Novak on CD2 and Fitz-Gerald” as the establisment candidate. It’s a lame use of Novak to attack one of the Democratic Candidates. Let’s swing it around shall we?

        “Novak on CD2 and Polis” the candidate who is most likely to buy his congressional seat!

        See how that works?

        1. Except you cant quote the actual article to say “the candidate who is most likely to buy his congressional seat!”  If you find what Novak said about JFG as a negative maybe youre supporting the wrong party.

        2. She IS the establishment. Is she new to politics? No. She has made a career of it. And she is very much part of the establishment. And he says flat out in there that she is the establishment candidate.

          OTH, you are trying to use a play on words WRT buying his seat. Had you said that Polis will be able to outspend his candidate (i.e. take it from the report), then you would accurate to the report AND might even be correct (It is not established that Polis will spend 10-20 million here).

          See how that works correctly?

    1. SB,
        Let me preface this statement by noting I like both Joan and J.P., but have not met Will.  I’m going to attack your statement, but this attack is not meant as an attack on Joan. 
        The reason I’m attacking your statement is that you use a priori logic in place of a posteriori statement.  This is a good technique, but flawed when you have factually informed readers.

        In particular you state that Establishment Dems = Unions, Pro-choice, GTLB and +Social Sec [aka, A=B].  Then you state that Polis is not an establishment Dem, therefore he must not support Unions, Choice, GTLB, & Soc. Sec [aka, if not A, then not B].

        The problem with this argument is that you assume that only Establishment Dems can = Unions, choice, etc.  This is at best a false assumption and at worst a knowing lie.  Establishment Dems may be pro-Union, etc., but Establishment Dems do not support Unions, Choice, etc. to the exclusion of all other types of Dems or other voters.  Non-establishment Dems can also support those same issues,[aka, A=B, but also, C=B].

        The mere possibility that establishment Dems could be defined as something other than your given definition dismantles your logic.  For example, establishment Dems could be defined as Dems in power who believe in solving problems in traditional fashion; as opposed to non-traditional Dems, who hold no elected position and have new, albeit untried, solutions to problems.  — I don’t offer this definition as the one and only for establishment Dems; I use it only to demonstrate that alternative definitions exist.

        SB – If you only typed out your 1st paragraph, everyone would be fine with that opinion.  It’s your second paragraph that enters into the world of high school debate.  If you’re a high schooler, good for you.  If not, don’t try and pull a priori arguments and expect readers to buy your leaps in logic and assumption.

        Want to sign my yearbook?

      1. Thanks, I’m not in high school. Are you taking undergrad philosophy somewhere?

        I’m well aware of how I framed my question, it was done purposefully. To draw attention to the framing of JFG as “establishment” without noting what JP believes in that makes him less “establishment.”

        “Establishment” has become a creeping pejorative and yet it is a nebulous term. I was hoping to provoke someone into being more sharp and pointed about their criticisms.

        A little early morning pot-stirring… no harm intended.

        I’m not in CD2, don’t have a dog in the fight. I like and respect Joan. I know very little about Polis. Something about the tone of the post at MyDD last week though didn’t sit right. I don’t want to seem my party turn it’s guns on each other like the Colorado GOP has done.

        1. TouchГ©.  My post is more than a little pedantic and, well, snarky.  As I come down from my high horse, please note my apologies for tone and temperament.

          To explain, I stopped reading the comments section here for a long time because of the circular arguments and overly coarse judicial ravings.  I should have noticed the verbal trap you left.  My bad. 

          You can still sign my yearbook if you’d like.

    2. There is a big difference from being an establishment vs a Non-establishment candidate. I do not think anyone will dispute Joan is the establishment candidate in the race.

      I am just correcting your misstatements in your posting.

      Jared has been one of the larger Donors of NARAL Pro Choice Colorado and Planned Parenthood. Jared is a leader in  Colorado on a woman’s right to choose.

      LGBT rights – Jared is an openly LGBT Candidate and would score a 100% from the HRC.  A large number of LGBT leaders in Colorado and nationally are supporting Jared Polis. Including the LGBT group equality giving. (http://www.equalityg…)Polis was one of the larger Donor’s to Ref I last cycle (http://www.denverpos…) as well as a large number of Colorado’s LGBT groups.

      On social security – You can learn more about his stances at http://www.polisforc

       

      1. How come Jared is the only picture under “candidates to elect???????”
          All of the  Presidential Democratic primary candidates are on the site. We all know that Joan has been a great friend to LGBT causes in the statehouse. Will has never said anything offensive and certainly upholds civil rights issues for LGBT.
          Is this a political site to advance the causes of the gay community, then let’s put all of the candidates on the site, or is being gay, the only qualification? At best the site should at least be consistent, at worst it is contrived to make it appear that someone has a hidden agenda.

        1. Here you go – E giving has been around for a number of years and has support a number of Colorado Dems that include Angie P and Jay Fawcett.

          Here is the press release below if you want to read it.

          Help Send JARED POLIS to the US Congress

          An Openly Gay Pro-equality Candidate in Colorado

          Dear Andy,

          Jared Polis is running for Congress in Colorado’s 2nd district for the seat that will be vacated by Representative Mark Udall who is running for US Senate. If Polis wins, he would be the first openly gay man elected to Congress as a freshman.

          Polis supports all the Equality Goals including marriage equality. We could count on Representative Polis voting for Employment Non-Discrimination, Hate Crimes, repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” and repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act and any other pro-equality bills that would come his way.

          Polis needs to win the Democratic primary in Colorado next year in August. The winner of the primary is likely to win the general in this heavily Democratic district that includes Boulder. While his opponents have strong credentials as well, Polis has out-fundraised them so far, indicating he has a great shot of winning. His fundraising must continue to be strong for him to remain competitive. You can contribute here.

          Polis is a successful entrepreneur and businessman, a proven community leader, a loyal Democrat and dedicated citizen. Additionally, Polis has been very active in improving education in Colorado and created the Jared Polis Foundation, founded the New America High School, and co-founded the Academy of Urban Learning in addition to serving on Colorado’s State Board of Education for six years.

          Please give what you can today to help Polis become just the 3rd openly gay politician in Congress, joining Representatives Tammy Baldwin and Barney Frank.

          For up to date information on the LGBTQ equality positions of all candidates running for US President, please go to our website, http://www.eQualityGiving.org under politicians.

          Best regards,

          Juan Ahonen-Jover, Ph.D.
          Ken Ahonen-Jover, M.D.
          Founders@eQualityGiving.org

            1.   Did he campaign for state board of ed as the gay candidate in 2000?  No, he didn’t. 
                Was he asked whether he was gay and lied about it?  No, he didn’t. 
                Was he asked whether he was gay and dodged the question?  No, he didn’t do that either. 
                But he did not run as the gay candidate….whatever the hell that means.
                Maybe it had something to do with fact that he was running for something other than Empress of the Imperial Court which is one post where one’s gayness is an essential job qualification. 
                Now, I did not actually see this but a friend of mine (whose judgment on such matter I trust) swears that prior to the 2000 election, Jared had been seen hugging and kissing another man in public at a pride parade. 
                If true, does that satisfy your demand that he demonstrate his sexual orientation in a loud, public manner?

              1. I apologize I was not clear.  I believe that orientation is a personal matter and if you choose to keep it private that is your business.

                I was just pointing out that his activism before he came out was not related to LGBT issues.  I am sure he supported them, and he gave some money, but he was not vocal on them.  On the other hand, JFG has consistantly fougt for LGBT rights–and the only thing missing from her LGBT bona fides is harley and a mullet.

                (my apologies for the Dykes on Bikes stereotype)

          1. You are telling me that this site supports Angie and Jay, but no mention of them?? All of the Democratic candidates support Equality goals. It is discrimination of the other candidates to leave them absent from the site when they have also pushed the LGBTQ agenda.

            It is ridiculous to think that the one who can serve best is the one who is a gay. Simply put, being gay is Jared’s greatest credential with this group.

            Forget the record of other candidates, forget their stand on this issue or any other issue and forget the fact that JP has only openly embraced this issue in the last year.

            The bias is offensive to those who have taken the heat and brought to the forefront issues that undermine our collective civil rights. Put Angie, Joan,Jay and Will and every other Democratic for Congress who has done due diligenge to the gay community on the site!

    1. I love how people see a conservative commentator and immediately assume they are knocking a Dem.  It’s an analytical piece…not so complicated.

      1. It’s the messaging being used by BusterS that is wrong. If you read what I wrote, I told him to find someone credible instead of Novak, because I knew he was only using this to try and make JFG look bad.

        It’s pretty simple, but perhaps you don’t get it.

          1. I take issue with one part of his statement.

            “She has behind her the infrastructure of her party, which has recently gained the governorship along with both chambers of the legislature.”

            The same people who put Ritter into office are not the same people currently backing Fitz-Gerald. If people here remember, Fitz-Gerald was taking an “anyone but Ritter” approach to the Governor’s race.

          1. Sure, I could argue Novak left out important facts about all three candidates, but as I have repeatedly said the actually analysis of Novak is not the point, but the use of it.

            If you don’t care, why do you keep bothering? I said above I’d drop it…

  3. Colorado-2: Rep. Mark Udall (D) is vacating his seat in this district that includes Boulder, the Northwest suburbs of Denver, and many ski areas. It’s a left-leaning district that has always liked liberal Udall, re-electing him with 68 percent of the vote last time. Bush received only 41 percent in this district in 2004.

    The Democratic primary could be a three-way race, with State Senate President Joan Fitz-Gerald (D) leading the pack. Fitz-Gerald is an elder stateswoman of Colorado Democrats, a powerful parliamentarian and old-fashioned Democrat. She has behind her the infrastructure of her party, which has recently gained the governorship along with both chambers of the legislature. She is the establishment candidate.

    Jared Polis (D) might be her toughest competition. He is a wealthy businessman, philanthropist and former member of the state board of education. Polis is willing to pour his sizable bank account into this race (he spent $1 million on a school board race) and will be able to outspend his rivals. State Conservation Trust Director Will Shafroth (D) is also a serious contender.

    So you see, the headline clearly was biased against JFG. The poster could have just as easily mentioned either of the other candidates. Why wasn’t it “Novak on CD-2 and Polis” or “Novak on CD-2 and Shafroth”. The reason the bias is so obvious is because, hello, this is Robert “I titled my auto-biography the Prince of Darkness and I’m a conservative mouthpiece” Novak’s name being associated with JFG, which is a negative.

    I understand the need to promote this post on the behalf of Pols but lets not pretend that the poster doesn’t have an agenda.

    Finally, let me say that Novak is in the main to point to JFG as the front runner, especially from those who are not immediately familiar with the situation. To those of us that are, we know that this is going to be tough and that right now it’s a toss up on who’s going to win. Ground game will rule and the candidates without the initials J.P. will have to raise tons of M$O$N$E$Y$.

    1. Why do you consider this negative? She is part of the establishment. She has played a MAJOR part in pushing the core democratic theme over the last year. She is head of the senate after all. And as head of the senate, a democratic senator, she IS the establishment. There are many folks in Denver and CD2 who will more willing vote for the establishment. Here is a hint; the district has been democrat for a LONG time and it implies that they do not want change, i.e. they want establishment. That is no different than CD5. They want hard core established republicans. A RINO would not work there. And an outsider would have a difficult time.

      As to a tough race, well yeah. This is almost certainly the real election. AS a SWAG, baring any major screw-ups, JFG and JP will be within 5 points of each other, with WS within 10. Though personally, I think pols has it in for JP, he seems to constantly knock his percentage only to be shown later that he is down. But he, it is a line :).

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