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August 07, 2007 03:11 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

For it’s the end of history
It’s caged and frozen still
There is no other pill to take
So swallow the one
That made you ill

–Rage Against the Machine


52 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

  1. More local ski towns and other Colorado localities with tourist attractions like Telluride should pass resolutions in favor of impeaching Bush. http://www.denverpos

    It seems that the resolution expressing the opinion of the ski town will keep the Radical Righties from coming here, which only demostrates that the radical right has no stomach for freedom of speech. If the radical right wants to stay out of our ski towns, Im more than happy to accept their threat, since I really do not feel safe skiing or otherwise next to anyone who thinks President Bush is still competent to lead this country; especially those groups from Texas whose town is missing it’s idiot.

    Actually, I must agee with columnist Ed Quillen that “We ought to make it clear that if people want to visit sanitized non-political little towns, they ought to stay out of our mountains and go to Main Street U.S.A. in Anaheim, Calif., where there are no citizens with opinions on the issues of the day, but instead just Disney employees in costume.” http://www.denverpos

      1. …don’t get so upset.  The “rivalry” of Texas and Colorado goes back to the Battle of Glorieta Pass in the War Between the States…..or so it seems.  We have a long history of disliking rich Texans coming here and buying up our resources.  Maybe some of it is sour grapes, but I don’t think that it’s totally unreasonable. 

        And look, that phenomena gave us Bill Owens! 

          1. Well, perhaps my good graces will be re-granted by letting her know that I just recently put a bumper sticker on my Jeep that says, “Somebody in Texas Loves Me.” 

            Actually, its ten somebodies.

    1. …and occasionally chastised for for almot a year.  It’s almost bizarre how lopsided the facts are.  Whether plain ole American graft or corruption or stomach churning sexual misbehavior, the R’s hold the prize.

    2. More and more it seems that there is a strong relationship between extreme Christian fundamentalist social conservatism and sexual compulsions coupled with self-loathing.  The more intolerant, the sleazier the secret self…  That and lot of garden variety skirt chasing by alpha male types who couldn’t care less about family values except as a tool for winning elections.

      Not that Dems are saints.  If Bill Clinton hadn’t been such a sleaze bag in his personal behavior, Gore would have been a shoe-in by a landslide and the darkness of the past 7 years never would have happened.  But, on average, more liberal, tolerant  people do seem to be just a tad better adjusted.  Maybe they put themselves under a little less pressure where there sexual natures are concerned.  Just a wild guess.

      1.   It’s definitely a problem for Republicans.  David Vitter spilling his guts to the Happy Hooker and Rev. Ted prancing around in Mike Jones’ borrowed red, white & blue jockstrap snorting tina may just be the tip of the iceberg as far as Republican sexual dysfunction goes.
          But I take exception to you blaming Gore’s defeat on Clinton sex-capades.  Gore’s problem was that he ran a crappy campaign (who can forget his childish antics during the first debate or his attempts at being something he wasn’t with Naomi Wolfe advising him on earth-tone colors and all that crap), and he could calibrate a proper relationship with Clinton.
          He looked like a fool during the impeachment day pep rally when he said that Clinton would go down in history (as our greatest president.”  That was bit of a stretch.  He could have simply said that Clinton is doing a fine job and being hounded by those with a political agenda.
          Then he went in the other extreme…..ignoring the greatest president we’ve had since FDR to the point of being disrespectful.
          Clinton’s behavior was bad but Gore lost in part because he mishandled his relationship to Clinton.

        1. …that Gore lost by so little – I’m overlooking all the Supreme Court things, the popular vote, etc. – I do agree with f.sage that if it wasn’t for Monica Gore would have overwhelmed Bush.  I’ve met people who should have voted Dem because of income, unions, etc. who voted Bush as an anti-Monica measure.

          Ah, the law of unintended consequences, a mere blow job in the work space…..

        2. ran a crappy campaign but part of that was the perceived need to distance himself from the Clinton sleaze factor.  The only thing People didn’t like about Clinton was the repulsive Lewinsky scandal. True, nobody ever had to have that shoved in their faces if it wasn’t for Republicans desperate to take him down at any cost.  If Clinton hadn’t walked into that particular trap,taking the earlier bimbo eruptions as a warning, and behaved himself for the duration, Gore would have been running as the esteemed VP of a very popular President and it wouldn’t have been anywhere near close enough to steal. 

          Even so, I think he could have won by a Rove-proof margin if, instead of running away from Clinton, he had run on a more tactfully phrased version of “With me, you’ll get everything you got with Clinton but I know how to keep my pants zipped.”

          I liked Clinton as President just fine but any Dem who isn’t pissed off at him for being such an idiot is giving him a free pass he doesn’t deserve.

          1. No Katherine Harris and Gore wins
            No voter roll purges and Gore wins
            No Sandra Day O’Connor and Gore wins

            No NADER and Gore wins FLA and NH

              1. would never have come into play if Clinton hadn’t been such a sleazy moron in his personal life.  I get really fed up with Dems who absolve Saint Bill of all blame.  Yes there WAS a right wing conspiracy.  But there were “Impeach Clinton” bumper stickers out there before he was even inaugurated (a cousin by marriage had one) so its not like he didn’t know they were looking for anything they could get to use against him.  They tried and tried with White Water, the Foster “murder” etc. etc. etc. and never could get anything to stick until he provided them with one last chance and they took advantage.  “What ifs” aside, the man brought the Lewinsky fiasco on himself and made the next election a lot harder than it should have been.  And to tell the truth, it is a little hard to understand Hillary’s attitude, after being humiliated in public with his blatant affairs for years, that it was all their enemies fault.  It was his fault,too.

    3. For starters, I note the fact that few dems were willing to admit what budget money that they were seeking (@ Worse, they did not say no. They just simply said gave the run around. In addition, I also noticed that most dems ran on the idea of cleaning up congress, but then when push came to shove, they gutted the laws that they said that they would push. All in all, this is a needle in pile of grass. Want to find the corruption? Simply look at which dems did not list their earmarks AND voted against the original anti-corruption law (interesting that peloci voted for it; speaks well of her). If you look at the intersection of the above, you will find your corrupt members.

    4. Corrupt politicians should be booted out of office.  Neither party can claim a monopoly on corruption.

      Prominent Ds with ethics problems that came to my mind include:

      Bill Clinton – Democratic President – gets a b*** job from an intern half his age in the Oval Office and tells American pubic “I did not have sex with that woman.”  Now running for First Lady.

      Marion Barry – DC Democratic Mayor videotaped buying coke from a hooker; later convicted of tax evasion

      Harry Reid – Nevada Democratic Senate Majority Leader; land deals than netted him $1.1 million; takes loads of money from mining industry and – suprize – opposed reform of 1872 mining laws that allow public lands to be bought for a pittance

      John Conyers – 21 term Michigan Democratic Representative, chair of the Judiciary Committee ethic violations for having staff members on Congressional payroll babysit his kids

      William Jefferson – Louisiana Democratic Representative bribery case where he hid the money in his freezer

      Frank Ballance – North Carolina Democratic Representative sentenced to prison for diverting tax dollars to a charity he established

      Bill Richardson – New Mexico Democratic Governor claims on his resume – for about 40 years – to have been drafted to pay ball for the Kansas City Athletics; turns out to be untrue; now running for President

      James McGreevey – New Jersey Demcratic Governor has secret affair with another man, gives him a job in his administration

      Jack Murtha – Pennsylvania Democratic Representative funnels big $$ to his lobbyist brother

      Alan Mollogan  — West Virginia Democratic Representative, former ranking Democrat on House Ethics Committee — 500 page ethics complaint for earmarking and misrepresenting his assets

      1. …”Corruption” is not getting a BJ, is not lying, is not allegation (Mollogan, so far, Jefferson), is not passively doing wrong due to complexity of laws (Reid), is not infidelity, is not having staffers babysit (oh, the horror of it!)

        Yes, Dems sometimes are corrupt – as I recently pointed out an allegation here – but the R’s hold the title.

  2. why no post on Salazar getting Ritter his 120 days?  and Udall and Cngmn Salazar’s amendment to ban drilling getting through the House energy vote.

    Cue the Salazar bashing from the big libs…

    1. that Salazar working on the Roan was a great thing.  I was very happy to hear about his.  But lets be realistic that many people in Salazar’s base probably have no idea what is going on in the Roan.

      Everyone in Ken’s base knows what when on with the NSA vote.  You can chalk this up to extreme liberals but I think that you would be off the mark on your voter demographic.  This issue is getting press and once again Ken is on the wrong side of the issue according to his base.

      I would be interested, and I think many voters would be interested, in hearing why he voted the way he did.  Sooner rather than later.

        1. is certainly not the “radical left”.  But to mis-characterize the NSA wiretap issue as only unpopular among the radical left is, in my opinion, a false assumption.  This policy is unpopular among many moderates of both parties as well as among more Libertarian minded Republicans.

            1. Misplaced fear at that.  Dems can’t shake the tendency to just naturally cede to Rs on toughness and patriotism.  They still are on defense when they ought to be on full offense.

          1. Is anyone ever going to be able to use this against him?  Are people paying close enough attention for it to cost him even 0.1% of the vote?

            This vote isn’t going to do anything to his political future.

            1. on their own radically shift political futures.  But taken with many of his other votes it influences the larger narrative that voters have about Ken.

              If the next president happens to be a Democrat, and there is not a significant change in the positive, and Republicans find a good candidate, then Ken’s future as a Senator could definitely be in jeapordy.

            2. this doesn’t matter to me – I was done with him after his Habeas vote and so were many other. It’s not just the rank and file like me either, some prominent Dems in Colorado walked away from Senator Salazar after that vote.

          2. I am (was) part of Salazar’s “base” – a self-described pragmatic dem who supported him (including with time) in the primary against Miles.  It is of course endlessly frustrating how few voters understand or seem to much care about the Bill of Rights (except the 2d amendment), but a lot of voters have decided that the Bush adminstration is completely untrustworthy.  I have no idea if Salazar will ever face a really tough fight again, but if he does some of his decisions this term will hurt him.

  3. From: Sen. Dave Schultheis [mailto:dave@daveschu…]
    Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:36 PM
    To: ‘Greg Brophy’; ‘Ted Harvey’; ‘Kent Lambert’; ‘Kevin Lundberg’; ‘David Schultheis’; ‘David Balmer’; ‘Cory Gardner’; ‘Jim Kerr’; ‘Marsha Looper’; ‘Mike May’; ‘Frank McNulty’; ‘Victor Mitchell’; ‘Jerry Sonnenberg’; ‘Amy Stephens’; ‘Ken Summers’; ‘Spencer Swalm’; ‘Mike Kopp’; ‘Josh Penry’; ‘Scott W. Renfroe’; ‘Tom Wiens’
    Subject: Gazette’s negative spin on Cong. Lamborn

    Jeff Crank is at it again.

    This article showing Lamorn in a bad light could just have easily have been spun as “Finally, there is a congressman willing to keep his constituents informed of his positions on key issues.

    http://www.gazette.c… <>

    Jeff Crank is itching to primary, Congressman Lamborn.

    Sen. Schultheis

  4.   On the Dem side, H.R.C. is at 48%, B.O. is at 26%, and Edwards is at 12%.
      On the GOP side, even better news:  Rudy is cruising along at 33%, Thompson (Fred, not Tommy) is at 21%, McCain is at 16%, and the “Rubberband Man” Romney is holding at 8%.

  5. Thought these numbers were interesting:

    “If the Democratic caucus were being held today, and the candidates were: (Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Dennis Kucinich, and Mike Gravel), who would you support?”


    Barack Obama   27
    Hillary Clinton  26
    John Edwards  26
    Bill Richardson  11
    Joe Biden  2
    Dennis Kucinich  2
    Chris Dodd  1
    None of these (vol.)  2
    No opinion  4

    Do you support (CANDIDATE) strongly, or somewhat?
    7/31/07 – Summary Table

      Strongly Somewhat  No opin.
    Hillary Clinton  60   39   1
    John Edwards  53   47   0
    Barack Obama  56   44   0

    These numbers really surprised me.  I tend to be far more interested in the early state polls than national ones.  If you wish to see the rest of the poll numbers go http://www.washingto

    The latest form the American Research Group poll shows the following numbers:

    Democrats  IA  NH  SC
    Biden  3% 2% 3%
    Clinton  30% 31%  29%
    Obama  15% 31%  33%
    Dodd  1% 1%   1%
    Edwards  21%  14%  18%
    Gravel  – –   –
    Kucinich  2%  1%  1%
    Richardson  13%  7%  2%
    Undecided  15%  13%  12%

    1. Check out the Zogby poll conducted in the days before the Iowa Caucuses in 2004:

      Dean led at 24%, Gephardt was struggling to hold on to second place, while Kerry was in third place, but his support was growing and he was catching up to Gephardt.

      Edwards was in fouth place, at 15%.

      And the result?  Almost flipped, Kerry, Edwards, Dean, Gephardt.

      As late as November, Gephardt and Dean led in Iowa, while Kerry was in 3rd place, with Edwards and Lieberman tied for 4th.  Lieberman!

      These early polls can certainly be entertaining, just like fantasy football.

      1. what do you look for as good indicators of who is doing well and who is not?  I do not put a lot of stock in polls but they can give you *some* idea of how things are shaping up.

    2.   California and other states which vote shortly after the first four states have early voting and liberal use of absentee ballots. 
        If California voting is anything like Colorado, 1/3 of the voters in the Golden State will cast their votes without knowing who won in Iowa or N.H.
        If the races in the states with early voting are close, then Iowa and N.H. may have an effect on those voting on primary election day.

  6. From an article titled “G.O.P. Leaders Fight Expansion of Children’s Health Insurance”:

    Representative Diana DeGette, Democrat of Colorado, a leading proponent of the House bill, said: “For the longest time, I was mystified why Republicans would oppose expansion of the Children’s Health Insurance Program to kids who are eligible but not enrolled. Now I realize. They are trying to deny us a political victory. They want to be able to say that Democrats can’t get anything done.

    “Unfortunately,” Ms. DeGette said, “Republicans are pursuing this strategy on the backs of poor children.”


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