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February 08, 2007 04:14 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

Like a shouting match, except quieter.


40 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. I am listening to Rosen go after one of his favorite targets: Kids.  These kids wrote a letter to the editor at the Rocky and it got published and Rosen disagrees with them.  He gets to use his great big radio to go after them, vivicously..  Must make you republicans proud….makes me sick.

    1. …about taking care of the widows and orphans, etc.  How anyone could read the Hebrew Bible or listen to any legitimate rabbi and come out as selfish as he is, I don’t know.

      I’ll grant ya, maybe he gives a lot of his income to true charitable causes, I don’t know.  But the written and spoken evidence speaks otherwise.

      1. I heard his rant, and you’re twisting it.

        He’s a good man. He’s selfish? Do you know him? Who is an anonymous blogger to judge anyone regarding charity work, anyway?

        He wasn’t going after the kids, but the fact that they, as primary students were being cajoled into public partisan politics. Inappropriate, just as much as any kid who wore a “W” shirt in ’04.  They are kids. They should learn about the process, not the partisanship at that age.  His teachers should have more respect for them than that.

        He absolutely dismantles lefties on his show, so maybe that’s the reason for the venom. Dwyer, maybe you should go on? Let me know and I’ll listen.

        1. He had their letter.  He had nothing else. He did not talk to them, he did not talk to their parents; he did not talk to their teachers. How did he know they were being “cajoled into public partisan politics?” He loaded assumption after assumption  into his interpretation of why they felt as they did. He doesn’t know bullshit about their motivation or anything….they were not talking about politics or partisan party politics….they were talking about winning and losing and feeling very pressured as ten and eleven year olds…..that’s all. They expressed their collective opinions and wrote a fairly articulate letter. And he used their letter as a springboard for his  radical generalizations  They are just kids.

          Rosen talks about parents……but when he goes after kids, it is as if he assumes that their parents are nonexistent or that he has some kind of right to run shipshod over  parents and go after the kids.  Adults should respect boundaries when it comes to minors. There is something unhealthy about Rosen not recognizing he is “dismantling”  the  feelings of other people’s ten and eleven year old children.  Decent men respect boundaries around kids.

          We had a kid who wrote a letter, at about that age, to the paper and it got published.  It was a big deal.  We submitted it for him, but we didn’t correct or edit it.  If you can remember ten and eleven year olds, they are getting pretty independent, trying out their wings.  If Rosen had gone after my kid’s
          letter, the way he used those other kids, I would have gone on his show with a lawyer and gotten an apology.

        2. I’ll keep these sentences short.

          I was not addressing the particular show.

          I listened to Mike regulary some years ago.

          I glance at his columns in the RMN.

          I was referring to A) the teachings of Judaism.

          And B) his political philosophies.

          I specifically stated that I don’t know his personal giving history.

          He might be an Andrew Carnegie in private, for all I know.

          (Carnegie: “To die rich is to die disgraced.”)

          His philosophy is that of selfishniss.

          I don’t recall him ever conceding that some people need help from society.

          Even Shill O’Reilly says that 15% do.

  2. In a story in today’s Post, headline Amend. 41 a partisan gift, she writes, “Some lawmakers don’t like…” and “Others have ambitions…” and “Some believe they have no legal…”. HOLY COW Karen.  Some, Others, and Some….who are these Some, Others and Some? It’s 2007 and an MSM publication allows a “Reporter” to write like a blogger. And by the way the article is not labeled at “Opinion or Commentary.” Is it news? If so, it’s not much news…it doesn’t even say, off-the-record, on-background, unnamed sources. It says, “Some believe..” And the Post wonders why fewer people are reading their newspaper. Uh, DUH.

    1. Lynn Bartels.  Errors, often, of both major and minor.  Crummy and Bartels are good examples of why even the printed media is losing readers amongst anyone with an IQ over warmed butter.  Trust me, I’m not happy about that.

  3. Level 3 Bill Ritter’s favorite company just announced a thousand person layoff. The Colorado Promise lives on. At least they waited until after the Ritter inaugural that the Level 3 CEO chaired and donated thousands of dollars to.

    1. that’s why they delayed it.  And why Kodak just announced 30,000 jobs axed worldwide.

      How do you manage to connect those dots?  Level 3 has been on the skids for years. 

    2. Let me get this straight.  Since level 3 supported Ritter and his inauguration and today they laid off 1000 people, then by association it is Ritter’s fault and he is bad.

      1. The association is when a company is going to wack 1000 Colorado families and that company has supported the governor financially, then the legtimate question is: Why didn’t Ritter fight for those jobs?  Why didn’t he ask for some time?  Why didn’t he set up a committee or a meeting….or god save us, why didn’t he pull a Romer….offer Level 3 stuff….fight tooth and nail for Colorado families?  That doesn’t make Ritter bad; he makes him a wimp.

        1. To say nothing of barely warming Owens’ chair yet. 

          If Ritter had “fought” for those jobs, wouldn’t you be pissed off that he was trying to sidestep market forces, or that he was just doing political payback?  How do you functionally ask for more time?  Taxpayer cash?  Loans?  Loans into a black hole? Then what company is next in line?

          Level 3 has always overreached.  Warren Buffet bought a lot of stock some years ago, things looked better.  Then he dumped it last year, I think. 

          1. Trying to post  here is like trying to jump on a moving train…I never know where I am going to land…, I am presuming, pr, that you are challenging what I said about Ritter’s failure to fight the layoffs.  First off, I always say what I think.  Don’t speculate about what I would say “if this then that” kind construct or what I would be pissed about.  I am perfectly capable of spelling out what is pissing me off.  OK.

            You raised excellent questions.  I don’t have answers. BUT, I think Ritter should be working on them.  Government policies impact businesses all over the place.  The issues of companies leaving colorado or greatly reducing work force in colorado is a legtimate one for the state.  We still  have a boom or bust economy and when government can miitigate those effects, it should.  Is it outsourcing or force reduction? 

            Taking corporate largess from Level 3 and then being silent when the layoffs come on the heels of Ritter’s first days in office, makes him look like a wimp…a rollover.  Now, I need to say, I don’t know anything about this situation, including the Ritter connection, except what I have read here.  So, if my facts are all wet,  my fault…I trusted you guys.  There’s a cop out for you.

            1. Actually, we sound pretty close with this post.

              I got my facts, I presume they are, from googling and reading stories in the Denve Biz Journal and the Post.

              I can’t help but thinking back to the days of the Chrysler bailout.  I’m still conflicted about that.  Many more thousands of workers directly and indirectly effected by a compnay like Chrysler going under.  There was only one place that was fiscally big enough to help, the federal government.

              Don’t forget, that 1,000 jobs were spread out all over geographically, I think.  I could not find the home cities of the six acquired companies. It’s quite possible that “only” 200 jobs were lost here.

              I also do not know how much of the contributions to Ritter were personal and how much were corporate.  Whatever they were, they weren’t enough to pay for more than a minute or so of the laid off worker’s salaries. 

              So what should Colorado have done?  Serious question, not trying to be snippy.

        2. Republicans always see them as the market at work.  “It’s like printing money” Ken Lay once said.

          I’m not sure what Ritter could or should have done here, assuming he even had knowledge about it.  I do know he’d be criticized if he’d done what you suggest, probably by other Republicans.

        3. Ritter could have and should have done nothing.  Ok, I’ll be the heartless conservative…it’s part of business. Some fail, some succeed and some just maintain.  It’s part of a thriving and dynamic economy.  I hope Ritter does what any good governor should – build the infrastructure and encourage the incentives for companies to come to Colorado or expand the business base already here. 

    3. Level 3’s business strategy has been to acquire bankrupt and financially distressed telephone network companies in the hopes that the combination would produce a financially viable company.  “Heh, let’s combine a bunch of  disfunctional, broke companies who sell network capacity that no one needs.  Betcha that will make money.”

      The only surprize is that Level 3 had enough cash to avoid massive layoffs until now.  (Our Strategy: “It takes a long time to piss away a billion dollars.”)

      The only dumber company in Colorado is Qwest, which has managed to screw up a monopoly.  While the other Baby Bells have gone through mergers and managed to maintain decent returns, nobody seems to want to acquire Qwest even though its stock is now at its multi-year highs of more than seven dollars!  Boy Howdy.

      Qwest has done its share of wiping out Coloradan retirements.  (Where was the Owens’ administration PUC for the last 8 years?)

      Economic development in Colorado would be best promoted by a statute that exports the managerial bozos at Qwest to Mexico.

      1. I love Qwest!  Of course, I bought it at $1.15, three cents above it’s all time low, and it’s been hovering in the $8-9 range.  But all those reitrees that saw their stock plummet from $45, wow, I can’t even imagine their pain. 

        Nacchio was just another dotcom rapist.  I hope he gets pilloried.

        At the time of the takeover, I was the director of the US West Technology Center at the Curtis Park Community Center. (whew!) In other words, a computer lab that got a lot of its funding from US West, hence the honorary name.  While I was there, they bought all new computers for the lab, supplied volunteer help to teach classes, paid for the DSL line, set up networks, and so on.  Life was better here, just like the slogan claimed.

        The deal with Qwest was closed on a Friday afternoon.  First thing early Monday AM, the CPCC director got the phone call:  There would be no more checks written. (Except for the rich white boys Castle Pines golf tourney.)  They saw the US West Foundation as leaking dolllars that they wanted.  A century of contributing to the communities that Mountain Bell served, up in bean counter smoke. 

        I left over other issues and the computer lab struggled on for another year or so.  Today, that room once filled with vibrancy and hope is instead filled with old clothes to give to those who ask…………

  4. Bill Ritter has not a clue how to build a strong Colorado economy. Ritter takes advice from people such as the Level 3 CEO who lay off thousands of workers and export jobs overseas. You’d think the Governor  would get advice from people who really are interested in the future of Colorado.
    By the end of the year I wonder how many more Colorado workers will have lost their jobs as the Colorado Promise moves on.

    1. And the CEO of Level 3 is not interested in the future of Colorado? 

      The jobs being lost are throughout the company, which has in the last year acquired five or six other companies.  Not all are in Colorado.  They are getting rid of duplicate positions, and the total is 14% of the entire company.  Not exactly a fire sale.  No mention of offshoring, either. 

      Or, by the end of the year I wonder how many new jobs the Colorado Promise will have created.  You know, in the big trend of things like the economy, this is nothing.  It’s one event. Check back in in four years, OK?

        1. The best way to increase the total pie is to have survival of the fittest among companies.

          With that said, as a society we also need to help individuals through the rough times when they are the one laid off. I think we are going to have to revisit the whole unemployment insurance thing because it can be longer stretches now.

          And the disparity in pay is a crime. CEOs of large companies are just siphoning off money.

          But if a company can’t make it – it should close down. (That said, I sure hope my company continues to be successful.)

          So yes, a Democrat but one wanting to see the total pie increase so all can get a bit more.

          1. I just never expected this “…more government meddling has worked so well…” to be uttered.

            Now, apply that to the concept of somehow seizing Oil Profits ala Hillary, and I’ll teach you the secret conservative handshake…

            1. So much for a Harvard MBA!

              Seriously, LB, the Dems have learned a lot of lessons while wandering in the desert the last 27 years.  Including the Clinton years, ah, Bill Clinton, the best Republican president we ever had!

              We have made a course correction (and I AM talking major generalities) away from a more socialist, government solves all things, away from gun control issues, and so on.  I’m not saying some Dems don’t long for the old days, but our political candidates don’t.

              Most of the newly elected Dems, statehouse or congress, would best be pigeonholed as economic progressives but social, well, not exactly conservatives, but more so than Dems elected way back when. 

              As David says via other words, capitalism is indeed the answer – just as FDR saved capitalism’s ass – but needs to be well monitored and regulated.  It’s like fire, great to warm you out camping, but don’t let it burn down the forest.  (As happened to Mark Twain and his brother at Lake Tahoe!) 

              As he points out, our unemployment system is antiquated.  We have far more “white collar” jobs than “blue” compared to when the system was set up.  Job skill transference is much more difficult and the jobs are much more specialized. Hence, is is very easy for a person to find themselves unemployed for much longer periods than before. 

              Without a large, easy to access “safety net”, we will just revert to the Robber Baron era.  Will there be abuses?  Sure, but that’s a small price to pay.

  5. Talk hosts will emcee Tancredo fundraiser

    February 8, 2007
    Rep. Tom Tancredo’s talk radio buddies are about to give his White House ambitions an off-the-air boost.

    Conservative talkers Peter Boyles and Robert “Gunny Bob” Newman will share the emcee duties at a Feb. 25 fundraiser for Tancredo’s newly-formed presidential exploratory committee, Tancredo for a Secure America.

    “He doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell, but what he can do is affect a platform of their (Republican) ticket on illegal immigration,” Boyles said in an interview Thursday.

    1. …did everyone hear his latest rant?  According to CMM, Bob said that Bill Richardson favors an open-border policy with Mexico because he’s Hispanic. 
        This is similar to the charge leveled against Cruz Bustamonte when he ran against Ahhhhnold in the California recall election back in ’03. 
        There are people (basically, Tom Tancredo’s base) who sincerely believe that “la reconquista” is coming, and that U.S. elected officials of Hispanic ancestry are simply “sleepers cells” getting into place to return title to the southwestern U.S. to Mexican owner.
        Has anyone bothered to ask Mexico whether it actually wants Texas or southern California back?

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