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November 02, 2006 07:15 PM UTC
126 Comments
yesterday and this morning on Peter’s show.
IF it is true, I hope that egotistical snob goes down hard, and takes his glorified shit hole church with him.
If it isn’t true, I hope the weirdo that is accusing Haggert goes down just as hard.
The timing of this leads one to wonder if this disgusting crap is true or not.????
But one question nags, isn’t it illegal to be a prostitute? Can’t this joker face jail time for admitting being one and proving it?
Just wondering……..
Wouldn’t Haggard face jail time for soliciting sex from a prostitute? Let alone eternal damnation in hell, if Haggard actually believes what he preaches.
I always figured the more someone hates gays, the gay-er they are. Furthermore, I would like to state that I love gay people.
I always figured the more someone hates gays, the gay-er they are. Furthermore, I would like to state that I love gay people.
I always figured the more someone hates gays, the gay-er they are. Furthermore, I would like to state that I love gay people.
Good one
to put the accuser away, yeah, he could be charged.
I agree: IF it is true, this is another example of a man’s shadow overtaking him. IF it isn’t, slap the accuser down hard – no excuse for it.
The timing is very suspect as there aren’t enough days to officially discover if this is true of not before the elections.
all of the times I’ve thought, “Well, f..k him!”…
Something a bit more than this guy’s testimony.
Still, he’s been talking to 9News for two months now – it’s not just a one-off prank at this stage.
Ted wrote a check? or bought a romantic dinner for two?
Haggard and New Life Church are another blight upon this city, just like Dobson and FOTF. I would love for this to be true and I’d love to see Haggard go down for it, but I just don’t think there’s an ounce of truth in these claims. This is really low and sleazy. I don’t know what possible purpose a story like this could serve either side.
1. What would the accuser stand to gain besides embarrassment (sp?)?
2. Talking to Ch. 9 for several months. In all probability they asked a lot of questions, when, where? (On the other hand, modern “journalism” means believing whatever is told.)
3. Hypocrites rail the most against their very own demons.
4. Jimmy Swaggart.
if they hadn’t given the caveat that he has been working with 9News for two months on this story. He must have been able to give them some kind of assurance or proof that he has something, perhaps an audio tape, etc? I can’t imagine 9News and Paula W. sticking their neck out this far if they didn’t have something more than the “word” of a male prostitute.
….he simply watched her. (Doing what with whom, God only knows……)
Apparently he masturbated while he watched her – of course that is also supposed to be prohibited ‘better to sew your seed in the belly of a whore, than spill it on the ground’. He also had her talk to him in sexual terms about her daughter.
These guys are disgusting.
I wonder if the Reverend would be willing to do the same…
I have known Ted Haggard since his early days dating back to the 1980’s. Days of lawn chairs in his basement. If her were having any type of a leaning toward males, it would have come out much earlier than this.
This crap is just that, a bunch of inuendo that is not backed by evidence. Maybe the accuser would help us believe his story if he were to provide dates, times, and locations. Just a thought.
And the left accuses the right of being…SLEAZY. Sleazy is as sleazy does.
Never be surprised what stupid people can do when the get together in large groups!!!
Whether you like New Life or not. This surprise release was far too coincidental to be coincidental. Why didn’t this gentleman come forward when the legislature was seeking testimony regarding the Same Sex issue? Does make one wonder. Now the real fun, WHO IS BEHIND THIS GUY????
A guy walks into Ch. 9 offices, announces that he’s been doing the Rev. Ted for three years. Paula and naive giant corporation run to the studio with the news.
NOT!
Because they are as credible as CBS and Dan Rather??? Come on now, we know that news agencies have agendas and this is probably a poorly researched story.
As careless as “news” agencies are, they are scared witless about lawsuits. Those are mighty deep pockets. In two months they obviously wanted to do some checking before alleging that Rev Ted was doing this. Imagine if there was no evidence besides this man’s word.
I’ve been in and out of the car and caught Ed Schultz for a few minutes. Teddy Bare is the topic. OK, maybe he was just unzipped. I sent the Ch. 9 page into Drudge.
I recognize that like Ted, I’m a hypocrite. We all are at some times. But this is Hypocrisy with a capital H. I really do try to monitor myself, and if someone points out an incident or attitude in good faith, I will certainly look at it.
Too hard to prove against the media. CBS went on the air with documents that were so blatantly fabricated that it took bloggers under 24 hours to pick them apart. They knew about the story for months and knew that it came from a person who was dead set to bring down the President. CBS has pockets a lot deeper than 9 and they were dumb enough to take that to the air despite knowing there was a good chance it was fabrication. The fact is that media outlets are given tremendous leeway under the law that protects them from libel. CBS clearly intended to damage the President and was willfully negligent to air the false story. They were never even fined.
The news outlets know that if it bleeds it reads and they are willing to put just about anything on the air.
The documents used, were ‘creations’ but the facts they supported were not. Rather was gone not because the story was wrong, but because he relied on documents that were not genuine.
There is a difference.
The story was so fabricated it was not even funny! The only evidence was the forged documents. BTW, it was a felony offense to forge those documents since they are federal government documents. Come back to reality when you get a chance.
Especially considering the most widely accepted source of those documents was the Republican Dirty Tricks Department.
The secretary who “debunked” the documents said that she had typed documents “like those” – i.e. almost identical, about GWB – but that the documents in question weren’t the ones CBS had obtained. In other words, in providing the wingnutosphere with the ammunition they needed to defuse the story, she provided corroborative testimony that backed up CBS’s case.
So now you are saying that a secretary remembers what she typed on one of tens of thousands of standardized form from 30 years ago, but no one else from that unit remembers? I have worked with enough beaurcrats to know that unless the secretary was a computer, there is no way to keep track of what you wrote on what form!
And let’s remember that the documents came from a nutcase in Texas, who refused to rat out his source. Think about it, if he had gotten them from the “Republican Dirty Tricks Department,” he would have done anything to expose them. He would have had all the resources he needed between CBS and the Democratic Party to hunt them down.
Pheonex, I am a bit disappointed with you. You are one of the most intellectual people on this site and I always enjoy reading your posts even though I am politically 180 from you. I just dont get how you can fall into a trap of believing this stuff though.
If you want to know the truth, it was widely reported at the time, just not nearly so loudly as the initial accusations.
Same’s true for Ted Haggard. We may yet find out the guy is innocent–although it seems unlikely–but it won’t matter. He’s been convicted in public already.
That’s what she said?
Some people are like that. I’m not going to discount her; she did the GOP a great service in saying she didn’t type those.
before he died.
Listen, robert, your prez was AWOL for six months and didn’t show up for his flight physical. These facts are very well established, regardless of fake documents in one circumstance.
Being a spoiled, hard drinking and drugging rich kid w/o empathy is just what we need for a president, isn’t it?
are all faked? I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.
Why did Ted Haggard just resign then?
the prostitute whose services Mr. Haggard has allegedly engages, has apparently been keeping phone messages and letters from his customer. So apparently there is evidence…
Ted Haggard, occasionally.
Um, by his account he was behind the Reverend.
Does that make it a church organ?
There is your proof! If it was not true, he would have his lawyers all over it. What I find amazing is the people who profess to be the high and mighty and have the private word of GOD are the ones who fall the hardest. Why not just live your life instead of lying about your life. God made all of us and he condems none of us.
Amazing if true, if not it needs to be removed per Coloradopols’ rumor policy.
.
I cannot find confirmation that Ted resigned. Where is the link ?
“The Rev. Ted Haggard, senior pastor at New Life Church, resigned today as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, following allegations he had a sexual relationship with a Denver man.”
http://www.gazette.c…
It doesn’t say he has resigned from New Life, though. It’s not looking good for him.
ITs time for Lamborn to denounce this guy
….or are they waiting for instructions from Higher Authority before responding (no, not from the Almighty but from Karl Rove, who in turn is probably waiting to get some polling numbers on how best to play this latest problem).
it didn’t happen and using the excuse of election day politics.
of the Haggard/Jones country duo “You Take Me for Granted”.
is always the first response.
Swaggert denied before he cried on TV.
Apologists for Republican leadership (including Dobson) denied there was anything serious about the Foley allegations. (Dobson – boyish pranks by the paiges).
Swaggerts tears didn’t hold a candle to Jim and Tammy Faye.
…..creating those multi-colored mudslides down her face!
When a barn needs a much paint as Tammy Faye, you can expect a little “overspray”. Give the butt-ugly gals a break!!!!
nasty little troll. Have you considered taking a class in how to be a human? I am always amazed that with what little you have to offer humanity, you waste it on being nasty. Try being nicer, maybe nice people will not want to pee on your head.
Try being nicer, maybe nice people will not want to pee on your head.”
You know some people pay a lot of money for that action… just a thought.
Jesus: I see that you built up a huge church and converted a lot of people to this Christianity thing.
Ted: Thank you, Lord.
J: That wasn’t exactly a compliment, but let’s move on. I see you preached furiosly against sin, good. But what’s this thing about sex with the same sex being sinful?
T: Well, you know, there are some references in the Hebrew Scriptures….
J: Yeah, but do you have any record of me saying anything about it?
T: Uh, no, but I……
J: How do you know that I wasn’t, what’s the word, gay? There’s no record of me being married, you know. Pretty weird in that old Jewish culture. There were a lot of whispers about me.
T: (gulp) I, I, I, didn’t mean to cast….Oh my, were you, I mean are you, I mean were you, uh, gay?
J: What does it matter?
T: I see what you mean….I think.
J: But the real reason I had you come in for this high level review, Ted, is your use of a “gay” prostitute. Is that true?
T: (Sniveling like Jimmy Swaggart) Oh, Lord, I mean Oh, God, I mean…Oh, I am soooooo sorry, Jesus. I’ll do anything to regain your love.
J: Just like I questioned my disciples, let me ask “Are you stupid or something?”
T: (Big tears dropping) I..I…I…just couldn’t help myself…I
J: (gently) Stop talking. OK, that’s better. Look, I know that those commandments could be pesky, like don’t commit adultery. But I also know human nature, that humans mess up. That’s why God created forgiveness. My problem with you, Ted,….are you listening closely?
T: (shaking)….Yes.
J: My problem with you and your ilk is “hypocrisy.” You know what that is?
T: Of course, you hated it.
J: Bingo. It was the only behavior I could not forgive if the hypocrite didn’t acknowledge his errors. What’s the PC English now? His or her errors.
T: Pleasee, Lord, please, I…I…I…
J: Was just being human? No problem. But where’s the repentance?
T: Oh, Oh, Oh,…I’m am SO sorry, Lord!
J: You sound like those politicians who are only sorry after they are caught.
T: Oh, no, not me..I, I, I.
Jesus says nothing, let’s it sink in.
T: (Sighs) OK, what is my punishment? Fire and brimstone for all eternity?
J: Nah, too easy, even though the ninth ring of Hell is usually where the hypocrites wind up. Let’s see…..hey, remember those Buddhists and Hindus that you used to rail against because they didn’t “belive in me?”
T: (gulp) Uh, yes….
J: Does reincarnation mean anything to you?
T: Oh, no, please! Send me to the ninth ring!
J: No, I’m sending you back to have a life as a gay man. I’m going to make you a swishing, pinkie out, falsettoed, sashaying, drag queen. (Jesus grins.)
T: But aren’t you saying then that being gay is a punishment?
J: Only for hypocrites….dude.
J: Did you notice the floor around your chair, Ted? The saw lines? And the lever here on my left?
A buzzer sounds, Ted drops from sight, the chair pops back.
J: Peter, send in the next one!
P: Yes, Lord
That was quite entertaining. I’ve noticed the same thing as some of you. Those that are the most anti-gay are often the ones that turn out to be secretly gay themselves.
Hats off to you, o parser of reality.
Does anybody remember how weird it seemed when Tom Cruise was talking about Katie Holmes when they first got together, and it just seemed off (or maybe an act) because it was too…over the top?
Does anybody else feel the same way about Haggard saying, “I am steady with my wife”? Seems like an odd thing to say.
His whole statement was weird. Although I’m sure I would respond badly to a flurry of microphones and cameras as well.
….and She has one hell of a sense of humor letting this story break five days before the election!
I can’t imagine 9news would go this far on a limb unless they had good proof, even if it is just this one guy telling of his trysts with Haggard. How this helps Ref. I and hits Amend. 43, I don’t know…
Obviously even the Dems truly have a problem with the gays amoung us….of any persuasion. Queer Dude, I surprised you would participate in such??????
…….that’s the big, unforgivable sin in my religious upbringing.
Gay Bashing? This is hypocrite bashing! 😉
“I did not have a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver,” said Haggard.”
Maybe he didn’t have a homosexual relationship in Denver. Maybe he had a homosexual relationship in Colorado Springs. Or Fountain. Or Cripple Creek. Or Security. Or Parker. But not in Denver.
maybe it wasn’t a “relationship,” but just a truckstop fling.
Or maybe his quote was clipped:
I blame the Rocky editors for this omission. 🙂
Maybe that man had sex with him in Crested Butte?
IF this is true it has big time implications. There was a lot of talk about Ted possiboly being Dobsons replacement at the helm of FOF when Dobson retires.
If Ted is gone then they are going to have to start grooming someone else fast, before the donations dry up and FOF folds at some point in the future.
I don’t see how what I said was gay bashing. I just said I wonder if this helps or hurts Ref I & A43. Duh. Dems are fine on gay & lesbian issues–during the elections they get a little squeemish, but they’re far better than the GOP.
what self-loathing he must have.
they all deny before they cry…
Cunningham, Ney
Now Haggard will say he was drunk, check himself into rehab, and admit he was molested by a pastor as a boy.
if the anti-American trash from Westboro Baptist Church will now stand outside New Life Church every Sunday spewing their hate. If it is true that the loudest clergy protests come from the gayest, we should all ask how many times Haggart and Fred Phelps have been alone together.
“Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country”.В -Kevin Tillman
My friend in DC tells me that Haggard is a regular participant in White House conference calls (I think they’re described as a sort of “religous advisory council”). Given the Prez is coming into Greeley to support the Queen of Gay-Bashing the day after tomorrow, do you suppose she and the Prez will make a joint statement condemning Pastor Haggard? Any bets?
Think we might get Comcast to do a pay for view???
I was just listening to Ted’s latest podcast and he prays that before the lection that “all lies and deceptions will be exposed”!
LOL!!!
Ted, for supplanting John Kerry’s gaffe from local news coverage and shifting the debate back to a negative for Repubs.
You are to local Dems, what the Limon Tornado was to Roy Romer.
Here’s an odd thought I just had. I’ve been reading the comments on coloradopols, coloradoconfidential, and squarestate. Nobody has really commented on the fact that Haggard is also accused of using meth. Is it that we all like meth? Or is it just not as bad as being gay? LOL
One person did comment on the fact that like the alcohol with Foley, this gives Haggard an excuse. In keeping with the standard checklist for a Republican scandal, he can say he’s sorry and enter a rehab program after this is over.
Haggard doesn’t spend the majority of his time railing against drug users.
You’re right though, “The meth made me do it” is a great out!
And alcohol makes you anti-Semitic?
At least Bill Clinton just fessed up (way too late) and said, “I was tempted and then I lied because I was ashamed of what I did.” We didn’t hear him blaming it on this, that or the other: “My nanny in Hope, Ark. wore a thong…”
The gay sex by the gay-bashing preacher is only high hypocrisy…..but the meth possession is the actual felony!
Is he still?
http://www.coloradoc…
Don’t know about the legal relationship between Lamborn and Haggard, though.
Here’s the best Ted Haggard quote, in my opinion:
Good to know.
Haggard did not endorse anyone. Don’t try to turn this into a Crank versus Lamborn story.
I’m not trying to turn anything into anything. I Googled and found this. Grow up.
Crank isn’t in the game anymore. Don’t give us this line. We all know he is supporting Lamborn. This is your way to devert this from Lamborn.
Get Real Hop a long.
Sorry dude, Haggard only has ties to Crank in CD 5. Crank and Bob Brendle (asst pastor) are good buddies. Stop trying to tie anyone else into this.
What did Lamborn know? When did he know it?
I’m a Democrat, genius. I’d be voting for Jay Fawcett if I lived down in Dobson-Haggard-ville. Google seems to turn up lots of links between Crank and Haggard, but not Lamborn and Haggard, but I was just repeating the first couple hits.
Need some fresh tinfoil for your hat, I think.
.
I’ve spent an hour looking to corroborate the stuff about Haggard resigning. I can’t find it.
I think it is irresponsible for you to leave this up, since it looks like the story is false.
Nobody has posted a link to a credible source on the resignation.
I posted a link about his resigning as president of the National Association of Evangelicals. Its the first paragraph in the gazette story. It’s hard to miss.
as he who will not see.
.
I really did look, didn’t find it, and made that post. Then I had to run some errands. I come back and, sure enough, I’m 100% wrong. Lesson: don’t ever log out of Colorado Pols website.
Denver outlets. Try http://denverpost.co…
Temporarily stepping down is a little different than resigning, I think. Although it doesn’t look good.
If the escort has been working with 9News for 2 months, I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. Surely they have some sort of great “Paula Woodward style” evidence: video of Haggard’s car, etc.
Mike Jones has a pair of Levis or Dockers containing Haggard’s DNA. We can always ask Ken Starr to examine them and then write a lengthy report!
http://www.cnn.com/2…
http://today.reuters…
http://www.krdotv.co…
According to the Rocky, the escort says he has voicemails and a letter from Haggard.
http://www.rockymoun…
Isn’t the “politically correct” term – whore?? These guys are giving “escorts” and truckstops a bad name!
maybe someone can enlighten me, but what i do not understand is why none of you are supporting ted haggard. if it is true (which i think is definitely in question still), everyone should be feeling sympathetic for the tough life haggard has led. gay rights activists everywhere should be issuing statements of support and understanding as they encourage haggard to just “come out”.
but no, is all we have is a lot of hatred flying around. i think it’s ironic. if haggard were to “come out”, it would be tougher than for any other homosexual. yet nobody is saying they’ll support him if he “comes out”. you are all just saying, “YEAH, EAT IT!” did i miss something, or is ted haggard just excluded from the rest of the group if he comes out as being gay? seems like you should be preaching of acceptance and tolerance, even if haggard has spoken against homosexuality in the past. seems like you make quite a point that way.
if he comes out before Tuesday. It’s the compassionate thing to do.
I was curious about this also so I asked some of my friends who are openly gay what they think.
To paraphrase their responces…”Oh my God this is unbelievable, but he deserves everything he gets after the amount of damage that he has inflicted on the gay community.”
I think that it would take a lot of repentance on his part before he was allowed into the good graces of the gay and lesbian community.
He’s not just some guy living the married life struggling. He is a man of influence who has railed against himself (apparently) for years.
Let him stew in his juices for awhile. And, of course, if the man comes out, apologizes for his sins against the gay community, he’s absolved himself.
Forgiveness does not come before the request for it.
Why in God’s name should we have sympathy or compassion for this raving creep?
The issue, CCTiger, is not that he might be gay. It is that Haggard, a fellow who moralizes to others for a living A) may have committed several crimes (remember? Prostitution and meth are both criminal). and that B) he is a fantastic hypocrit who has been demonizing homosexuals for years. I would like nothing more than to see his evangelical, anti-enlightenment ass go down hard.
I found this on the front page of BBC World’s “The Americas” Section:
http://news.bbc.co.u…
Check out the YouTube cut of Ted Haggard in the movie “Jesus Camp” on this web site:
http://www.towleroad…
Google had a link to this web site on its main news page a couple of hours ago, but not anymore. It was hard to find it again, what with 372 news articles now posted on the subject.
sorry – couldn’t resist.
I do think this will have a noticable effect on three issues. Obviously it hurts Amendment 43 and helps Referendum I. How do you fire up the evangelicals to go vote when this subject brings Haggard to mind. SOme won’t go and a lot of those pushing it will shut up.
It also helps Fawcett – a lot. This might be the extra bit needed for a Democrat to actually win in CD-5. And Lamborn is in a lose-lose. If he says nothing he is tactly supporting Haggard which honks off his base. If he does speak against Haggard he will upset a lot of the evangelical power borkers in his district as they won’t like his turning on one of them.
Maybe Lamborn is right and God is involved in this election. Unfortunately for Lamborn, he wants Fawcett to win.
given the time-frame, it could cause social conservatives to come out in droves in response to what they see as a sleazy attack on one of their leaders. i think it all hinges on how quickly this is proven OR disproven.
If Ted Haggard is found to have done this, as a conservative and a Christian I will state that he is a hypocrite for everything he has done and I think he would deserve whatever comes to him.
So how many of you who are blasting him will post apologies on here if these allegations are found to be false? For those of you who would not, you are more of a hypocrite than Haggard could ever be…
We aren’t.
We ARE accusing him of hypocrisy if, indeed, the charges are true. I think most people on this site, whatever their tilt, are intelligent and can differentiate between allegations and believing that they have been proven.
Read some of the comments and you will find that many people are ready to lynch Haggard for allegedly doing something they support. Kind of strange isn’t it?
No one here has come out in favor of hypocrisy that I’ve seen. Correct me if you can find one.
Seems like a weak denial, like the next line would be, “Aurora maybe, but not Denver”.
The timing seems suspect if the kiss and tell prostitute has been talking to 9 News for two months.
Not just this event, but others. So what? Things happen when they happen, or when people decide to make things public. Whatever their motives, the facts remain the facts.
When should truth (I’m working on a presumption here with Ted and John) be told? After the votes are in? Would you be questioning this if the person being exposed was a Dem?
What was that report that the NYT kept under wraps for over a year? They had it before the 2004 election but decided to hold it “so that it wouldn’t influence the elections.”
Huh?
So much for the liberal press.
If national and international ntworks are picking up this story so fast, it has better be true, otherwise just about every news network in the world had just lost credibility. I doubt they would pick this story up if they doubted it veracity.
but when a news agency says they received a big story two months ago and then break it four days before an election, I’m going to be suspicious of timing. It may just be they needed that much time to prove their case as Middle said, but it still seems suspicious. I would be just as skeptical if a Dem scandal broke on Fox news four days before an election. Happy?
the accuser has said he wanted this to come out before the election, because he could not stand Haggard’s hypocritical stance on 43. He talked with 9 News for two months and probably said last week, “If you won’t run with this, I’m taking it next door.” So KUSA made sure they were on safe ground and broke the story.
The timing is entirely political, as the accuser has said. But not a conspiracy.
The movement of terrorist warnings from lower to higher all during the 2004 election cycle had nothing to do with timing, did it?
Of somewhat differnt scope, the release of the Iran hostages 20 minutes after RR was inaugurated. You know, there is more evidence still surfacing that GHWB was very involved in this illegal scandal.
This is a pretty big story and I’m thinking a news channel wouldn’t dream of touching this with a ten foot pole until they had taken some time to do some background and some fact checking.
If they reported something they couldn’t back up, being sued by Haggard had to be a realistic concern that factored into this.
I’ve been wondering about the voice mails and the envelope with the 2 one hundred dollar bills. If 9 News has been working on this story for two months, is it possible they were actively working with this guy?
I’ve nothing to back this up but it would make sense to me that Paula Woodward got the prostitute to save the voice mails in order to offer proof to them that he wasn’t fabricating the story. If Haggard only met him once a month, as it’s being reported, it would take some time to gather that kind of evidence before going public.
And yes, 9News knows how big a splash this will make the weekend before an election that involves an anti-gay marriage referendum on the ballot. I’ve no doubt the timing is intentional, in some way.
ALL the way to the top! He spoke weekly with the “Decider.” If there weren’t any evidence to the aligations, then Darth Chaney would have focused his dark side powers, and Mr. Jones would be in some dark hole in Cuba by now. Lambourn’s seat has become much too important to let this embarassment fester in international news.
While the proof has yet to be made public, it is not looking good for Ted.
will be appearing with Ted Haggard today. Nor will Ted be joining The Chimperor in Greeley tomorrow as previously planned.
Ha. Ha.
Non Prophet has the inside dope.
From: Pastor Ross Parsley
Mailed-By: newlifechurch.org
To: n.prophet@gmail.com
Date: Nov 2, 2006 10:59 PM
Subject: Update from Pastor Ross
Dear New Lifers and friends of New Life Church,
[more here]
From where I sit, I have always thought that these big churches are nothing more than big money bible-thumpers of which most do not really care about what they say. They are in it for the money. I wonder what kind of golden parachute this guy will get from the church? As it is, the Catholic church have done a much better job of paying off the pedophile bishops (and somewhat priests) then they have their victims.
This story and Foley go to show that genetics play a part of being gay i.e. you are what you are born as. What I find interesting is that the Republican’s approach is to make nasty little boys and girls out of otherwise “normal” folks. Perhaps Democrats, Libertarians, Goldwater and Log Cabin Republicans are on to something.