Thursday Open Thread

“In the face of an obstacle which is impossible to overcome, stubbornness is stupid.”

–Simone de Beauvoir

50 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Conserv. Head Banger says:

    In a break from all the political talk, was driving by Green Mountain High School in Lakewood recently. This message was playing on their electronic message board in front of the school.

    School's Out for Summer — Alice Cooper

    Made me wonder how many kids know who Alice is, even though he still tours. And how many teachers recall a song from 1972. 

  2. Early Worm says:

    I have teenaged kids. With the various music apps and youtube, they listen to and hear all kinds of music. But, they get no context or history. To them it is just music. They know the song, they have no idea who Alice Cooper is.

    I know the principal at Green Mountain and she is my age. I heard that song every year, starting in 72, at the end of the school year. Don't know if the principal programs the message board but it wouldn't surprise me. She recently was awarded pricipal of the year.

  3. Pseudonymous says:

    Representative Wasserman Schultz?  Yes, I believe this is your bus.

    • Canines says:

      Debbie, We Hardly Knew Ye…

      “And all those scumbags who are giving you shit on social media,” [Wasserman Schultz] concluded, according to several attendees, “f— them, they don’t know the first thing. They don’t know you.”

  4. Chickenheed says:

    I was listening to CPR on the way into work this morning (like we do) and I heard an interview with Sen. Tom Cole (R-VA). The reporter kept asking him about Trump's Russia comments from yesterday and Cole kept changing the subject to Clinton.

    This makes me wonder if it's possible for a Trump supporter to say good things about Trump without saying bad things about Clinton or anyone else for that matter. I don't think I've ever heard it happen.

  5. Andrew Carnegie says:

    From the LA Times today's daily tracking number:

    Trump 47.4

    Clinton 40.1

    • Davie says:

      So when Trump wins, do you plan to be a "Good Nazi"?

      Turn out the lights, the party's over…

      With three decades invested in the Republican Party, there is a powerful temptation to shrug and soldier on. Despite the bold rhetoric, we all know Trump will lose. Why throw away a great personal investment over one bad nominee? Trump is not merely a poor candidate, but an indictment of our character. Preserving a party is not a morally defensible goal if that party has lost its legitimacy.

      I will not contribute my name, my work, or my character to an utterly indefensible cause. No sensible adult demands moral purity from a political party, but conscience is meaningless without constraints. A party willing to lend its collective capital to Donald Trump has entered a compromise beyond any credible threshold of legitimacy. There is no redemption in being one of the “good Nazis.”

      – See more at:

    • BlueCat says:

      As I'm now apparently known for saying…. Give it a rest. The Dem convention isn't even over . A new Razzie has HRC ahead by a point.  Yeah, I know… Razzie. Point is this is a pretty silly discussion at this point in time.

      So AC…. you're a Trump fan?

      • Andrew Carnegie says:

        BC, I support Hillary.  I think she is the best change maker I have ever seen.

        Political Cartoons by Mike Lester

        • BlueCat says:

          If HRC spent the rest of her life swindling people 24/7 (no evidence she's ever swindled anybody) she couldn't catch up with Trump who regularly uses bankruptcy to avoid paying his contractors more than pennies on the dollar and even when he doesn't choose bankruptcy has his lawyers offer contractors a fraction of the agreed contract, telling them …sure you can sue but it will take years and cost you a fortune. The little guys have to take what they can get. 

          But you haven't answered my question.

          Are you a Trump fan?

        • Voyageur says:

          How's that Trump University Fraud suit coming, AC?  Are you still laughing about how your man cheated the veteran's widow?

          What kind of man cheats a veteran's widow?
          A 3D man?  Draft Dodger Donald.

          How is that 30 pieces of silver thing working out for you? Or are you being paid directly in rubles?

          Come on down to the Legion Hall with me and let’s talk about how a draft dodger can make America great by swindling veterans’ widows.

          Oh, wait. You can’t join the American Legion can you? You never served.

          Explains a lot about you.

          Should I just call you Jody?

    • FWIW, the poll you're quoting (that Trump likes to quote as well) started tracking on July 10 at Clinton -3 when the national poll average was Clinton +4. It's been decidedly off from the national poll averages ever since.

      (Also note – this poll is unusual; it updates 1/7th of a pool of about 3000 fixed poll targets daily…)

  6. BlueCat says:

    Very good look at turmoil inside DNC long before DSW got the hook.The woman is apparently a real piece of work and even the HRC campaign has been pretty appalled by her "leadership" despite her being an HRC supporter. Kind of a…. with friends like this who needs enemies kind of thing.

  7. PKolbenschlag says:

    Is it really appropriate for our elected State Treasurer to be traveling as a representative of the state with his campaign/political consultant stumping against a ballot measure?




    • Diogenesdemar says:

      Do I agree with him?  No, not exactly (and, frankly, rarely)

      Is it appropriate?  Hell yes, of course.

      Maybe I'm an outlier, but I kinda' expect my elected officials to occasionally take a public stand and use the bully pulpit of their office. (Maybe we've gotten used to 6 years of 'Hick hiding under a bushel and rearing from the lead / leading from the rear?)

    • Pseudonymous says:

      There's law that seems to say it is, at the very least, permissible.

      Although the case involved Romer and his opposition to Amendment 6 (I'm guessing an early try at TABOR), the court clearly stated that an elected official can do this sort of thing, even if there are public funds spent that are incidental to his office rather than the effort.

      Besides, Walker will be running for governor in a couple years against Ken Salazar.  Let him have his fun now before he hits the buzzsaw.


  8. dm_ox12 says:

    From Facebook Live. People are walking the streets of Philly with Bernie and Jane. When asked of one ladies experience, she stated that she had asked Jane, "So what's next?" She said to be prepared in the future for the Bernie Sanders' grassroots movement. It seems to me that Bernie understood a long time ago that this country needed to go in a different direction. He tried to get it done the easy way, running for the WH. (it would not have been that easy) But it looks like the DNC has insured that we are gonna have to do it the hard way. I was reminded recently that whether I like it or not, our government works incrementally. That is how democracies work, little bit, by little bit. Sudden dramatic change in government policy is indicative to monarchy. Look, I love Bernie, because he was willing to actually try a bit of dramatic change in the way we do things and see if it could work. It used to. On that note, I can tell you one thing for sure. If Heir Drumpf wins, all of this, everything Bernie and the Gang has worked for will be tossed right out the window. Then let's ask, "So, what's next?"


    • mamajama55 says:

      Hi d-mox,

      It's good to know that Bernie and Jane are walking around Philly talking to folks.  I took notes on his June 16 big supporter conference call, and his "to-do" list still seems pretty good to me. It's what we mean by the Bernie Sanders revolution. Which of these would be your top 3 priorities?


      1. ending income inequality. It’s about ending campaign finance by corporations. Creating an economy for all of us, not just the 1%.

      2.Ending status quo: On the Native American reservation, life expectancy 2/3 of anywhere else in US. Millions of americans dying at a younger age than their parents: suicide, childhood poverty. E

      3.Ending the disgrace, undocumented people exploited on their jobs. comprehensive immigration reform.

      4.It’s about ending income inequality. It’s about ending campaign finance by corporations. Creating an economy for all of us, not just the 1%.

      5.         Tens of Thousands of Americans dying every year from preventable diseases.

      6.         Make the minimum wage a living wage ($15 hr) in the US = pay for women, women .79 / vs men $1.

      7.       Strengthen water and air regulations and enforcement. EX: Mom in Flint, Mich. Excessive lead in water, stunted intellectual development of her child.

      8.       Homelessness veterans in streets.

      9.       Corporations avoid paying a nickel in taxes, stash in tax havens. End this.

      10.       Priority this year is Defeating Donald Trump. Makes bigotry the cornerstone of his campaign. 6:40 Trump wants to give hundreds of B of $ in tax breaks, climate change denier.

      11. Democrats will pass the most progressive platform in history and that we actually fight for that agenda.

      12.       A party that has the guts to take on the Pharma, Fossil Fuel industries, others.

      13.       Women must have right to control own bodies. Protect right to gay marriage.

      14.       Ban sale and distribution of assault weapons, gun show loophole, and have instant background checks.

      15.       Stop the TPP, must not come to the floor.

      16.       Expand Social security, not cut it.

      17.       Greed, recklessness of wall st must end. Pass a modern Glass Steagal. No more “too big to fail”.

      18.       Aggressively combat climate change, impose a tax on carbon. Must protect our water supply by banning fracking.

      19.       Make public colleges tuition free reduce student debt.

      20       Health care a right, not a privilege

      21.       Prison industry, criminal justice reform,  end "war on drugs".

      22.       Waste in ever department including D o D.

      23.       Can’t keep throwing young people into unnecessary wars.

      24.       Fight for our ideals, defeat D Trump. 3 at every level continue to fight for our nation to be just. Current DNC leadership has turned its back on many states, like red states, allowed right wing to run unopposed, we need a 50 state strategy. Must provide resources to ignored states. 6:47

      25.       Leadership, DNC must open its doors, welcome working people and young people. Cold hard fact. Since 2009, some_____ legislative seats have been lost to R. Start engaging at local and state level in unprecedented way.

      26.       Young people deeply concerned about country and community. Start running for office! School boards, commissioners, whatever! Be prepared to engage at that level.

      27.       With energy and enthusiasm our campaign has shown, we can win significant numbers of offices at down ticket level. We need new blood. You are that new blood.

      Government is not the enemy. what Rs say. I disagree. Government must protect us and our planet. But we need to attract dedicated people from all walks of life to run for office.

      28       Tens of thousands of new Drs, medical personnel, where ppl lack care.

      29       We need child care workers, teachers.

      30       We need scientists, engineers, entrepeneurs to work for renewables, efficient and cost effective as possible. Construction.

      31       Business entrepeneurs who respect employees and environment.

             Conclude: we have begun the long and arduous process of transforming America. My hope is that when historians look back and find when we began reversing the trend towards oligarchy. They see that the political revolution began in 2016.




      • Voyageur says:

        And as Bernie would be the first to say, not a single one of these priorities will begin if Donald Trump is elected president.

        • BlueCat says:

          Probably why Jane Sanders says she doesn't understand Bernie supporters who aren't going to support HRC. Guess Bernie Busters gotta do what Bernie Busters gotta do. At this point whatever they claim they're going to continue to fight for by voting for this cycle's Green joke candidate or whatever doesn't have any connection to Bernie's policies in particular or advancing a progressive agenda in general.

          Delayed Terrible Twos?

      • Diogenesdemar says:

        So if you agree that there’s too much inequality in our economy, and too much money in our politics, we all need to be as vocal and as organized and as persistent as Bernie Sanders’ supporters have been.  We all need to get out and vote for Democrats up and down the ticket, and then hold them accountable until they get the job done.

        If you want more justice in the justice system, then we’ve all got to vote—not just for a President, but for mayors, and sheriffs, and state’s attorneys, and state legislators.  And we’ve got to work with police and protesters until laws and practices are changed. … That’s how change will happen.



      • dm_ox12 says:

        Dang Mama, I only get three? Well, I guess they are all important, but to start off,I think there should be initiatives that could at least lay a ground work to push us to a more progressive country. Some of these choices coincide with each other.

        1.It’s about ending income inequality. It’s about ending campaign finance by corporations. Creating an economy for all of us, not just the 1%.  Ending Citizens United and the other bill that escapes me.

        2.Greed, recklessness of Wall st must end. Pass a modern Glass Steagal. No more “too big to fail” and A party that has the guts to take on the Pharma, Fossil Fuel industries, others are all part and parcel of the same problem.

        3. Young people deeply concerned about country and community. Start running for office! School boards, commissioners, whatever! Be prepared to engage at that level.

        I feel that these three issues can get the ball rolling. Until a progressive agenda is established, fresh faces enter the political realm who can put forth useful legislation and agree upon it and those powers that be, which are preventing change are muzzled and leashed, other issues can be more easily addressed.

        If I could have 5 choices:

        4 would be raise the national minimum wage

        5. Tuition free college.

        Give poor people more money and they will spend more in the economy, creating more revenue, higher demand for product and a need for more employees. And college is incredibly important these days. My time in college opened my eyes wide  and I believe that only a well informed populace can prevent tyranny. Let's face it, there are a lot of really clueless people out there. Including yours truly.


        • mamajama55 says:

          d-mox, the good news is that the Democratic party platform now endorses  your goals 4 and 5 (list #6 & 19). The bad news is that legislators hardly ever fulfill the promises of the party platform. So we have to go to your goal 3: elect progressives in all of those little down-ticket offices, so we can make progress.

          The platform also copies Bernie's wording almost verbatim on pt. 2. The bad news is that the version of Glass Steagal Hillary likes is sorta anemic, and her VP pick, Kaine, is a DLC Wall Street supporting centrist.  Per economist Robert Reich, Hillary is not signalling that she will put any meaningful restrictions on banks (and non-banks) gambling with our money. She is at least looking beyond just banks to include other financial entities which contribute to the bloated speculation and crashes.

          As far as your #1 priority, d-mox, I'm not seeing any repeal of Citizens United under a Clinton Presidency. Depends on Supreme Court picks, I guess. But she certainly does have plenty of corporate donors, even if we're supposed to believe that this will never influence her decisions.

          But thanks for responding! The only reason I put "top 3" is because it's easy to get overwhelmed. My own top 3:

          Climate change and energy restructuring. Forgive old student debt. Elect progressive legislators.



  9. Voyageur says:

    The Stakes this November

    With its multiple checks and balances, state, federal, local, executive, legislative, judicial, the U.S.constitution was deliberately crafted to avoid radical change.  We have never achieved socialist paradise, nor have we plunged into fascist hell.

    But in the end, the constitution is a scrap of paper if the American people don't respect and defend it.   That is the the danger for Donald Trump.   For the first time in 220 years, we have a major party candidate for president whose slogan is "Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Donald!"  Who simply doesn't give a shit about the American system.

    You can't build a national health care system without the support of Congress.   You can destroy one simply by refusing to fund it.  You can eviscerate the Supreme Court with robotic fascist appointments.  You can destroy NATO by selling out to Putin, tossing the Baltic states and Ukraine back to their role as Soviet fiefdoms.

    You can love Israel to death, by simply turning the United States into a rogue nation with no diplomatic standing abroad, so the UN and other world forums lock in against an Israel that no longer has a prestigious and powerful ally.

    You can build a wall, not just against Mexico but Canada as well by destroying NAFTA

    and adopting the discredited policy of mercantilism as the basis of our economy.

    You can cut taxes on the rich by 30 trillion dollars in ten years.  The result will be to impoverish the rich by destroying the middle  class that buys the goods and services produced by the S&P 500.

    America has survived presidents who were bigots and utterly ignorant of economics.  Andrew Jackson comes to mind.   His trail of tears destroyed the greatest of the Indian Nations, his Panic of 1837 put uncounted numbers out of work (there was no bureau of Labor Statistics then to count the havoc) but America survived and eventually found the vision of a lincoln, two roosevelts and others to go on.

    But we have never had a president who didn't give a shit about America.  A president whose only interest was amassing personal wealth, personal power, bolstering a colossal ego and masking an epic insecurity.

    We have, of course, had many such men.   Usually, we put them in rubber lined rooms, humor their fantasies ( "of course, Emperor Napoleon” ) and give them whatever drugs seem to control their illnesses, physical and mental.

    Now, we are asked to put such a man into an oval office. Hand him a suitcase of codes that can end human civilization.  Trust him not to destroy the federal reserve system that keeps our economy working.   Endure his taunts that half of humanity is worthless because menstration drives it mad.

    And explain to our stunned and accusing  grandchildren that we, as a nation, freely handed over the power to destroy our world to a raving madman.

    Is that really how the dreams of Washington. Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Medgar Evers, Mark Twain, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and the men like my late father-in-law who landed on a darkling shore at Normandy are destined to end?

    This November, vote as if the survival of Western Civilization depends upon it.

    Because it does.

    Believe me.




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