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July 26, 2016 07:24 AM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 91 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Brutal men with unlimited power are the same all over the world.”

–Mary Chesnut

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91 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread”

      5. yes

        I'm hearing some of those demonstrators aren't even real Bernie supporters though I'm sure most are. I certainly know enough of the type myself.

        To those misguided flakes I say if you aren't going to vote for HRC even though you as  a Bernie supporter and Bernie absolutely must have a Dem administration, Senate majority and Supreme Court to hang on to much less expand the gains you've won with your movement then you have ceased to be a Bernie or Buster.

        What you are now is a Bernie Buster helping out Trump.

    4. In comparison, Ted Cruz supporters fell in line. Republicans booed Cruz for failing to endorse Trump. It does not matter to Republicans that Trump is unqualified, incoherent and not conservative. He is the nominee, so he must be followed. In contrast, some Bernie sopporters are not so quick to fall in line, do what they are told. Republicans are the party of tribalism. Democrats are the party of tolerance. And that tolerance gets put to the test every time more than three democrats get together to annoy each other.

      My optimistic view of the recent poll numbers is that they reflect the Republicans falling in line, as is their want. The Democrats are not there yet. I am also hopeful that the undecideds  (independents) will break for the non-racist, competent candidate when forced to choose.

      2. I have a pretty optimistic view of this whole situation, actually. The Latino vote alone is coming on like a freight train….

        The churning within the Democratic party is much like the seething of solar matter inside the Sun….it is incessant and generates heat, varying in degree from time to time. Right now the friction has generated a gigantic flare ( the Sanders campaign) that has interrupted the flow of politics as usual. The subsequent heat buildup will dissipate and the new dynamic within the Democratic party will take hold.

        Busters, take heart! Just as Barack Obamas' candidacy moved the needle, so will the candidacy of the old white guy from Vermont. If you want to help keep Bernies' promise that the revolution continues, then you damned well better get it in gear and do everything you can to make sure Hillary Clinton is the next president of the United States.

        Right. I don't particularly like her, either. But, my particular likes and dislikes are not important…what is important is who fills the next open seat on the Supreme Court. Hillary has been able to see and hear the message brought to the discussion by the Sanders campaign and the rise of the "Warren Wing" of the party. She is on our side…but, like with any elected official, she needs demonstrable public input to use in negotiating with opponents. and…she needs us to keep the pressure on…never relenting.

        This is your challenge. Keep the revolution alive and manifest your support for senator Sanders, and the revolution for which he has already worked so hard, by continuing to press our issues. Get involved ! Not just in Hillarys' campaign, but all of them. All the way down to school boards and taxing districts. It is your point of view and your persistent voice that is needed desperately at that level. It is the only thing that will change the world.

        Don't complain….join and participate.

      3. EW,

        Here is one of your messengers of peace and tolerance:

        "On the sidelines of the Democratic National Convention here, Georgia Democratic Rep. Hank Johnson reportedly compared Israeli settlers – meaning Jews living in the West Bank or eastern Jerusalem – to termites.

        Speaking at a Philadelphia meeting of the US Campaign to end the Israeli Occupation, a group that supports the boycott movement targeting Israel, Johnson made the offensive remarks.

        He complained that “there has been a steady [stream], almost like termites can get into a residence and eat before you know that you’ve been eaten up and you fall in on yourself, there has been settlement activity that has marched forward with impunity and at an ever increasing rate to the point where it has become alarming.”

        “It has come to the point that occupation, with highways that cut through Palestinian land, with walls that go up, with the inability or the restriction, with the illegality of Palestinians being able to travel on those roads and those roads cutting off Palestinian neighborhoods from each other,” Johnson continued.

        “And then with the building of walls and the building of checkpoints that restrict movement of Palestinians. We’ve gotten to the point where the thought of a Palestinian homeland gets further and further removed from reality.”

        1. That is pretty much the reality of Palestinian life. The writer didn't call for violent reaction or retaliation: he was stating the living conditions. Peace and tolerance are still worthwhile goals and values- even if hard to implement under these conditions.

          1. Thanks for the image MJ55.  Even Gaza has been reduced.  The poorest and most overpopulated place on the planet is smaller and Palestinians should be grateful towards the benevolence of the Israeli Democratic institutions.  I guess they have made 'improvements' on the southern Jim Crow laws.  What compassionate administrators of the occupied territories. Not.  If Israelis really lived their commitment to democracy, they would do more than appropriate all the land then can for settlers.

        2. Metaphorically, Trump is entangled with Putin's Russia.

          Trump dodges questions on outstanding loans from and investments in Russia,  from Talking Points Memo's Josh Marshall:

          Why Did Trump Dodge the Russia Question?

          from Twitter:

          Christopher Hayes Retweeted

          Tommy Vietor‏ @TVietor08

          For the record, your Tweet just signaled to every reporter that there's something to this.

          Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrumpFor the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia.

          But what investments does Russia have in you, Mr. Trump?

          from the Washington Post

          Inside Trump’s financial ties to Russia and his unusual flattery of Vladimir Putin

  2. From NBC's First Read:

    “Given all of the news here in Philadelphia, perhaps Monday’s biggest news was about Colorado — in the Clinton campaign’s decision to pull down its TV ads there, because it feels confident enough about its standing versus Trump in that battleground state."

    I have an idea:  Use that money to help the Carroll and Schwartz campaigns!

    And, maybe Michael Bennet can pitch in, too.

      1. I don't think it's a good idea for the Clinton campaign to take any state for granted.

        CHB  (Proud to be a RAT: Republican Against Trump)

        1. I would argue Banger that the selection of Kaine shows that the Clinton campaign isn't taking anything for granted including Virginia.  The fact that they are reallocating resources at this point could indicate a bigger impact in other places rather than a smug over confidence that Colorado is already in the bag.  Timid people rarely seize lifetime opportunities.  This is a chance to build a country changing direction wave that will make the deliberate gridlock of the past look archaic.  Time to put to pump the peddle and take the pads off the drums.

      1. Don't want to violate any laws.  I don't look good in orange or stripes!

        Could you please elaborate why the Clinton and/or Bennet federal campaigns cannot contribute some of their funds to a Congressional race?

        1. Generally anything between campaigns, parties, etc. falls under campaign finance law. I suppose, though, they could make an independent expenditure PAC and unleash the kraken; that's not forbidden any more.

          1. At least do a liz warren style appeal to your donor list asking them to help morgan, gail and other great candidates.  I gave to warren in her race and have responded to a couple of her appeals for other good women.

        1. We easily re-elected a Democratic governor, almost re-elected a Democratic senator who ran what may be the worst campaign in '14 this side of Bruce Brailey in Iowa, held the 3 out of 7 House seats we had going into the '14 election, held the state House and suffered a net loss of one state Senate seat.

          That wasn't too bad in the face of the GOP tidal wave, Andy.

  3. Saw my first Drumpf commercial this morning. (I didn't know he had the money to be running them.) A lot of older, white, blue-collar guys ending in the tag line about making America great again. I'm not so concerned about it gaining traction in Colorado due to the demographics (Latino, younger and college educated) but I can see it playing to his base in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

    The map is going to look really strange in November with HRC carrying states like CO, VA, NC, NV, (maybe) AZ and FL while losing OH and PA.

    1. Mrs. Clinton should be very competitive in Pennsylvania.  Pennsylvania is a very diverse state and Trump is polling close to single digits with all the minorities.  Take out Tommey at the same time.  Down ballot races are going to be very exciting this year.

  4. Crybaby Trump gets a case of diaper rash, whines, "I won't pay the hotel bill!"

    When it gets hot on the hustings, some politicians take off their jackets and roll up their sleeves. Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump complains.

    “See how hot it is? Everyone’s sweating and soaking wet,” Trump said Monday as he delivered a 45-minute speech inside a packed ballroom at The Hotel Roanoke. “I wouldn’t pay the hotel.”

    It was nearly 100 degrees outside the hotel, where hundreds of people were left standing in the sun while police handed out bottles of water. Compared to that, it was blessedly cool inside.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-air-conditioning_us_5797754ee4b0d3568f8485e4?section=

    1. He probably will offer them partial payment, take it leave it, like he does to his contractors. His lawyers tell them they can sue and probably win but it will take a very long time and cost them a fortune. With employees and bills to pay right now the contractors generally feel forced to take whatever faction Trump offers.  Even so it often ruins them. That's his business model: sink all boats but his own. 

      1. Yes, it's the well-known "Trump discount".  Savvy vendors ask for upfront payments and rarely expect anything further.  So Trump can't always (if ever) hire the best since they are probably good enough not to need to do business with him.

        But he does leave a path of devastated small businesses in his wake.

        Talk about untrustworthy…

  5. Should Hillary get the nomination this is what will happen with me, I'll vote for Mrs. Clinton when it comes to the general. I don't approve of Trump. I ain't gotta bit of use for him. But I will not advocate for her. I won't canvass house to house in support of her. No signs or bumper stickers or pins with her name on it. I could not and would not attempt to convince someone to vote for someone that I can not entirely support myself. It will be a dispassionate vote, though a necessary one, and I'm pretty sure that the vote will be enough. That being said, I will urge anyone who is passionate about the Sanders Revolution to focus on down ticket candidates. Even if Trump wins in November if progressives take the Senate and the House, we will at least have the ability to keep him in check, and if Hilldog gets it, it will keep her true to the platform set before her. I think one of the factors regarding Busters vs. Hillary is that they do not trust she will do what she NOW says she will do. These were Bernies' ideas, that she says she will implement. We shall see.

    1. Don't know if dm ox is supposed to be a "dumb ox" but you sound like a wise old owl to me.  Vote for Hillary — we'll do the calling canvassing, etc.  And pour your heart into other races, like Gail Schwartz and Morgan Carroll.  Take back the Colorado Senate, pass a decent minimum wage — it's on the ballot.

      You rock. dm_ox12

      So do you, MJ, Duke, Itlduso, and the rest of you Bernie-loving residents of planet earth!

       

      1. It's been mentioned more than once by supposedly serious political contemplators that the Trump candidacy could open up enough extra opportunities for Democrats to flip the House. Future First Husband Bill is headed for Utah; things that are not normally in play may be in play.

        1. PR,

          Trump is not exactly getting blown out by Hillary.

          Trump may be flawed but you need to be drinking serious cool aid not to recognize Hillary's many flaws.  

          If the race for President becomes non-competitive it is just as likely that Trump blows out Hillary as the other way around.

          1. My honest take on why Trump's numbers seem to be artificially high is that the Republicans (between Right-Wing radio and legislative gridlock except when it comes to passing regressive tax cuts benefiting the wealthy) have done a magnificient job tearing down trust in our institutions — courts, legislatures, heck —  even school boards.

            By instilling fear, hate and distrust, backed by Voodoo economic policies that have stripped away any sense of security or economic hope from the middle and lower class workers, Trump is able to tap into that anger and angst.  

            Democrats need to build a vision of shared opportunity and rebuild trust in the institutions that underpin our country's astounding successes in the last 240 years.  The roadmap needs to show how we can unstack the deck, where it's not just the wealthy, powerful, well-connected that benefit.

            This week has gotten off to a great start building that vision.  I pray to God that people eventually see him for the authoritarian blowhard that even many (ex-)Republicans are coming to recognize and reject.

            The devastation Trump could wreck on our country is unfathomable.

            2. D,

              Trumps numbers are high, not artificially high.

              The tearing down of faith in our institutions was done by those who ran the institutions in such a way as to destroy faith in them.

              How can the Dems be a party of change when running on the back of 8 years of the status quo by a candidate that served in that administration?

              Hillary is the change agent for a corrupt system?  That won't sell.

              1. The tearing down of faith in our institutions was done by those who ran the institutions in such a way as to destroy faith in them. 

                Which would be the Republicans who have been running for decades on the premise that government can't work and only trickle down economics and wild west unregulated banking can save us, then devoting themselves to proving the former and getting low info voters to buy the latter. Rinse repeat.

              2. AC, the tearing down of our institutions and politics of personal destruction ("She's a crook", "Lock Her Up") is your Party's specialty.  Cynical partisanship at it's worst.  

                If judged by your very low bar as to what constitutes a "crook", then proto-fascist dictator-wannabe Donald Trump should already be behind bars and you would throw away the key, right?

                BC and V'ger have already responded to your other cynical provocations, so I'll leave that as is. Guess the civil truce couldn't hold afterall on this blog. You are what you are paid to do apparently.

          2. So, your man Trump thinks POWs were cowards.

            Let me, a veteran of the war he dodged the draft to avoid, reply to that.

            Actually Trump had a medical deferent, because of a bad case of Military Related Spinal Jaundice.

            The most obvious symptom is a big yellow streak down Trump's back.

            He is a disgrace to America, a coward and a crook.  

            And he had the gall to defame John McCain.

            How can you kiss the ass of a scabrous coward like that, Andrew?   Don't you have a shred of respect for the men and women whose sacrifices from Concord to Iraq keep this country great.

            Even Benedict Arnold had more guts than Trump.  At least he served bravely under fire before selling out his country..

              1. Comparing Hillary to Benedict Arnold??

                What happened PissAnt? Did your program get infected with "Moddyware"? That was an extremely stupid comparison….even by your standards.

              2. Donald trump is a draft dodger.

                Donald trump is a lilly livered coward who insulted American POWs.

                Donald Trump has said he doesn't mmind if there is a new korean war.  My brother served two tours in korea. 

                Do ald Trump lovesPutin and hates nato.

                Donald Trump gives aid and comfort to America's enemies.

                I hope you are well paid for your efforts on the draft dodger's behalf, Andrew.  I am told the going rate is 30 pieces of silver.

              3. Did she the insult the courage and sacrifice of every American POW?

                While she has never betrayed her country is she praising Putin and Kim Jong Il and winning their enthusiastic support along with the support of KKK members and members of other White Supremacist hate groups?

                Is she planning to betray us by weakening NATO and strengthening Putin?

                Is she planning to betray our constitution by issuing unlawful orders to our military and intelligence and instituting religious tests and discrimination based on religion?

                Not so much.

            1. V,

              Donald Trump never sold State Department action for donations to his family foundation.  You have a crook leading your ticket.

              1. That is a lie andrew.  If youhad any proof, you would turn it over to the fbi.  But you hnow it is a lie.  Now, go back to kissing donald trump's draft dodging ass.  I hope ypu shaved close this morning

                ..

          4. Yeah, the polls by the news organizations do show the race is close—but look at the real polls, the electoral college vote–it ain't close.

            Needing 270 electoral votes to win, HRC has 342 sitting, waiting for her come November compared to 196 for Trump.

            Those are the numbers at the present time—Trump will continue to make a fool of himself until November, (and probably beyond).

            The news polling means nothing. 

            1. Wouldn't it be ironic if Herr Dumpf wins the popular vote while HRC takes a majority in the Electoral College? Then Drumpf files a lawsuit (he has been known to do that when he's PO'd) in state court in one of the closely contested purple states. Then loses in the state supreme court only to petition to the U.S. Supreme Court which – on a four-to-four split – let's stand the state court decision.

              Revenge is a dish best served up cold!

          1. Agreed.  That is the general consensus on this site.  Btw, nice to have a civil exchange.  I'll try to keep it that way whenever possible 😇

          2. It will take a "wave" election for President to flip the House – and thus far, polls of the popular vote aren't showing that sort of margin.

            But the fullness of Trump has not yet been explored – if connections to Putin are confirmed, if he continues talking about pulling out of NATO, if he releases his tax returns and there IS something there, if he DOESN'T release them and more people start being suspicious, or if someone finds a case confirming the old punchline of what it would take to lose (a "dead girl or live boy"). Ah, if there are those additional disasters, a wave election becomes a possibility, punishing all those who explicitly support Trump or "the nominee." 

            1. And all of those potential disasters averred as to Trump are at least as likely as to Clinton.

              With DNC hacked emails show up on the eve of the DNC convention, expect that national security emails from the home server will show up shortly before the election.

              I think that is at least as likely as anything Trump does coming back to bite him.

              1. With DNC hacked emails show up on the eve of the DNC convention, expect that national security emails from the home server will show up shortly before the election.

                 

                In your wildest dreams, PA. ..in your wildest dreams.

                1. They may not come true, but don't think that they're that wild.

                  Democrats Fear Cyber 'October Surprise' That Could Sink Clinton

                  The big question isn't whether more information will be disclosed, they [political operatives and cybersecurity experts] say, but how destructive it might be to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and to broader U.S. foreign policy efforts.

                  Wikileaks says they have more.  There may not be any "there" there, and it may be more DNC stuff, but there's a reason James Comey said:

                  With respect to potential computer intrusion by hostile actors, we did not find direct evidence that Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail domain, in its various configurations since 2009, was successfully hacked. But, given the nature of the system and of the actors potentially involved, we assess that we would be unlikely to see such direct evidence. We do assess that hostile actors gained access to the private commercial e-mail accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account. We also assess that Secretary Clinton’s use of a personal e-mail domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent. She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.

    4. yes Me, too, dm.  There are already reports that HRC will support "some version" of the TPP. All hail the corporations! Let them write the rules.  Candidates can just be the ventriloquist's puppets.

      1. So you don't want any trade agreement, not even one that addresses your objections. 

        Also this is hardly a hard fact report:

        Terry McAuliffe tells POLITICO the Democratic nominee will support a deal with tweaks that Sanders’ supporters hate. But the Clinton campaign calls the comments ‘flat wrong.’

        Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253#ixzz4Fcwk1u2d
        Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

        But of course anything that feeds your preferred narrative must be fact and anything that doesn’t must be dismissed.

    3. Gawdam! Gawdam! . . . 

      The only thing worse than having to agree with Sondermann . . . 

      It strikes me as a classic example of the cover-up being worse than the offense,” Sondermann said.

      “No reasonable voter would judge someone based on what happened in 1983, before that person was even a young man,” he said. “We all did things we wish we hadn’t … but while voters might not judge him based on what happened in 1983, they can judge how he handles it now — does he own up to it, does he take responsibility, or does he duck, dodge and weave?”

      . . . is having to agree with Sondermann twice.  Ugh. 

  7. Hey Voyageur you were right the first time, I am just a dumb ox. What occurred to me recently is basically a concession of my own. I am deeply disturbed that Hillary Clinton, though not doing anything illegal, unethically took the Democratic ticket. Unfortunately, we Bernie supporters have known this for a long time, but refused to know better than to think it would matter. It started when Bernie announced his candidacy, and there was really nothing we could do but call Clinton, MSM and Little Debbie Cakes out on it. We believed that if we spoke up loud enough, if we stood up tall enough, if we worked harder than everyone else that we could bring continue what Obama started but taking it even further, actually catching us up to the rest of the modern political world. Silly me! This, apparently had some progress, but it didn't put the cherry on the milkshake. After the roll call tonight, I will vote for Hillary Clinton if she is indeed the candidate. But it will bring forth a drive from all of us to make sure that if Hillary get the White House she aggressively follows the democratic platform including comprehensive election reform especially in within the DNC.

     

    1. sincerely, dm ox, I just wondered if dumb ox was what your handle meant.   I meant it when I said you are a wise old owl to me,  With Satan's little helper, Trump. at the gates, I can't be choosy about my allies.  But when you stand at Armageddon and battle for the lord, you can't worry too much about whether the soldier next to you is wearing last season's helmet.  You just hope she knows how to swing that battle axe.

       

  8. dm. I actually think Bernie demonstrates the failure of the DNC not it's success in efforts to put their thumb on the scale. He got farther than his own original wildest dreams. Where they've successfully been putting their thumb on the scale pre-dates his run and goes back through all the years DWS has been in charge fighting to clear the deck for HRC in advance and they were very successful there until Bernie came along and blew their minds.

    The fact is by the time it got to a head to head with no evidence of any contest in any state being stolen, HRC won the most contests, the most pledged delegates and even Bernie realized in the end he could only win by getting pledged delegates to come over to him en masse regardless of which way their states went. 

    Like Nixon and Watergate, the machinations were entirely unnecessary. And even though Bernie came in second, it's such a strong second that the party is in the process of being transformed. He's forced them to fall in line with his positions on issue after issue  because of the power he's amassed. And DWS's head has been handed to him on a silver platter. He won. She lost.

    He could never have accomplished any of this as an indie and he knows it. This is his party now and he needs for his party to be in power and its presidential  and other candidates to win and win yuuuuge to keep growing his power and the power of his movement. 

    Not bad for a little old Jewish socialist indie whose candidacy was supposed to be no more than a brief annoyance on the way to the HRC coronation that's been in the works for year. 

    Bernistas should be dancing in the streets, not sulking. And they should be voting to give Bernie the WH and congress he needs to keep it coming.

  9. We may not be dancing in the streets, but we are organizing and planning. We are neither naive nor stupid, but we will be voting and making sure others vote.

    You'll be glad (maybe) to know that I finally saw a Hillary video at the convention that moved me. It was from her meeting with the Black Lives Matter moms. I did see some sincerity ( I hope not just political opportunism) in her interactions with these women.

      1. AC, Everything you have ever done here was to serve the Republican agenda. We Bernie supporters on this forum understand that you are no friend to Bernie's ideas, and had he by some miracle gotten the nomination, you would now be practicing your "divide and conquer" attacks against him. 

        So spare us your platitudes. I'm a reluctant Hillary voter because your party has selected a monster who brings out the worst in the American people. Because he's "electable". So don't preach about political opportunism.

  10. Ain't no use in looking back

    Trump has got your Cadillac.

    Ain't no use in going home

    Trump has got your girl and gone.

    When I get a three day pass

    I'm gonna kick Donald Trump's white ass.

    Am I right or wrong?

    YOU'RE RIGHT

    Are we going strong?

    YOU'RE Right

    Sound off

    12

    Sound off 

    3 4

    Cadence count 1,2,3,4,
    1 2 3 4!

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