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June 03, 2016 07:35 AM UTC

Friday Open Thread

  • 41 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it.”

–Robert H. Goddard

Comments

41 thoughts on “Friday Open Thread

  1. Finally got to see HRC's unpacking of Drumpf . . . 

    . . . need to add the (repeating) message that an entire party of lunatics (including their Legislative candidates at all levels) feel that Hair Drumpf is the right stuff and the very best their party can do for America !!!

  2. Interesting night last night in San Jose at the Trump rally. Seems some true colors may have come out, with some Bernistas actually being anti-government anarchists. I don't blame Bernie for this; after all, he's just a politician. But if San Jose is any sort of predictor, and those rally permits already obtained by Bernie supporters, the convention in Philly may end up looking like Chicago in '68. 

    1. I think we saw the same crew harassing Clinton supporters last week.

      I always found it odd that some folks are having a hard time deciding between Trump and Sanders 

      1. Those video reports of protester-on-protester violence were disturbing. I saw no "Bernie" signs or gear, heard no interviews where people claimed affiliation with the Sanders campaign. Les, when you write that you "saw the same crew", do you mean the exact individuals, or do all young brown males in T shirts look alike to you?

        There's a lot of low-info rage out there – young people angry that Trump is stirring up racist hatred. I've heard it from my own students. "Why does this man hate us? Why do the people love him?"

        The slogan, "Fuck Trump!" is about as articulate as they get.  They go out looking for trouble, and they'll find it. Some may be paid provocateurs. Look for the best-equipped ones – if they have expensive gas masks and professional bullhorns or sound systems,  they're probably professional disruptors. And I sincerely hope that Sanders folks are training in nonviolent crowd control, because yeah, they'll need it in Philadelphia in July

        Naturally, Trump et al will make political hay out of it.  As for Clinton supporters, the best thing they can do in Philly is to run a fair and open convention, follow their own rules and not make up new ones on the fly, listen to people's concerns, welcome discussion, allow dissent, not suppress or dismiss or belittle the Bernie "hordes" , and respect the spirit of democracy.  Anything else, it will be a floor fight, and a nasty one.

        1. And I hope Bernie and his supporters at the convention respect the spirit of democracy too. Especially if HRC wins California and comes in the clear and big time winner of pledged delegates. And let's hope a California win would be enough to end the nonsense of going for all those supers he has no chance in hell of getting considering just how many of those would be required to negate the will of the majority of pledged delegate

          Even if she doesn't win California let's hope the spirit of democracy will be honored by both sides.

          1. Of course. Any delegate on the convention floor will have already demonstrated a commitment to democracy by hanging in through the district, county, and state conventions and all of the disheartening, "Why hasn't Bernie already quit?" "Hillary is inevitable!!!!"  rhetoric.

            Sanders delegates are not anarchists, by and large. We're still clinging to the idea of working through established channels, absurd and pointless as that seems at times. Nobody threw chairs in Nevada, even though Maddow reported it as fact. It's going to be important to have alternative reporting on site.

            Right now, Sanders delegates are studying up on the rules and procedures of the convention so that they don't get blindsided by those over-eager for quick closure for their preferred candidate. We would like Sanders' candidacy to mean something, by opening up the ossified channels of the DNC to grassroots input. Some token contributions to a meaningless Dem platform are not going to be enough. We want structural change.

             

            If HRC wins California in a fair and open election, which is still not a sure thing, I'll concede that she won.  Although I'll still probably put up my "Primary Shenanigans" diary, not to promote a "the system is rigged" narrative, but to show what Sanders was fighting, against what odds, and what he (we) actually won.

             

            1. Well, even if hillary loses California there are still 49 0ther states and she will still win the nomination with about 350 votes to spare, including her capstone victory in DC.  Don't forget she won california in 2008 and obama still had the nomination

                "Bragging rights" ain't worth dip squat.

      1. Because many of them are also anti-corporate anarchists, and Sanders is willing to tip a few apple carts. Also, because of the two "outsiders", Sanders is the one who isn't a raving bigot, and some of the anarchist contingent is also idealistically egalitarian.

  3. Here's a fine analysis by the Los Angeles Times of the California poll that either showed Bernie ahead by1 point or Hillary ahead by ten  — depending on which groups actually turn out and in what numbers.  The key to such polls isn't in the vaunted — and basically meaningless — margin of error, a term referring only to statistical sampling.  The key is in what assumptions you make.   Hillary rocks with over 50 voters — and historically, they are the ones most likely to actually vote.   If you think that history repeats itself on June 7, then you think Hillary will win by a fairly comfortable margin.  

    But the Bern scorches under 50, right?  has he changed the rules of the game by not only registering lots of new voters but motivating them to actually vote?  If so, the same raw numbers project a 1 pct Bernie win.

    I used to teach this stuff alongside the legendary Floyd Ciruli at the CU Graduate School of Public Affairs.  The bottom line when looking any poll — the so-called margin of error is only one variable and often the least important.  To really analyze a poll, you need to know the assumptions the authors used in analyzing that data.

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-latimes-presidential-primary-poll-20160602-snap-story.html

  4. Speaking of polls Obama's continue to stand up to all assaults. In fact his latest show him over 50% in three separate polls. Generic congressional Dem lead has also held up through most of spring.

    From RCP.

    President Obama Job ApprovalGallupApprove 51, Disapprove 45 Approve +6

    President Obama Job ApprovalRasmussen ReportsApprove 52, Disapprove 46 Approve +6

    President Obama Job ApprovalReuters/IpsosApprove 52, Disapprove 44 Approve +8

     

    2016 Generic Congressional Vote

    Democrats 45.5

    Republicans 43.3

    Democrats +2.2

    Small leads but Obama’s persistent over many weeks now. Last generic May 19th but Dems had been ahead for weeks by then too.

    1. BTW. Obama's RCP approval average jumped from +1.4 to +2.4 in one day. HRC's slide against Trump has halted and started to reverse.  Just one day after endorsing, Ryan has had to express disapproval of Trump claiming a Mexican American judge can't be fair to him. Interesting.

      1. Obama abandons Grand Bargain, makes the case for Expanding Social Security:

        Marking a stark reversal from his past position, President Barack Obama said Wednesday the U.S. ought to increase Social Security retirement benefits.

        “It’s time we finally made Social Security more generous and increased its benefits so that today’s retirees and future generations get the dignified retirement that they’ve earned,” Obama said during a speech in Elkhart, Indiana.

        “And we can start paying for it by asking the wealthiest Americans to contribute a little bit more,” Obama said. “They can afford it. I can afford it.”

        That's the plain and simple truth and it makes me wonder if we still might have a Sen. Mark Udall if he hadn't been such a Grand Bargain Junkie. Now, of course, Obama does have to be the one that has to do that hard work of getting something like this done. 

        But Michael Bennet says he wants to make some hard decisions. I doubt he has the guts to really do what's right for retirees, what's right for tax fairness, what's popular and proven. Unfortunately, I think he'd rather appeal to the Op-Ed board of the Washington Post than to the citizens of Colorado on this one.

    1. You know, JD, I looked at that YourNewsWire link, and it isn’t doing our candidate any favors. It was sloppy and misspelled, it was obviously biased (call HRC “Killary”? Call Bill “Viagra Bill”?) On top of that, it seems to have exaggerated the numbers attending the 5/31 Oakland rally. Huffpo and Heavy both said there were about 60,000 people there. That’s a huge fricking rally, and no, HRC has never gotten crowds that size.

      We don’t need to exaggerate crowd size to be 100,000 people. We don’t need to promote shoddy, name-calling fake journalism. There’s plenty of hard evidence of establishment Dem and media bias against Sanders. We don’t have to make shit up or call names. It doesn’t help.

      For some reason, I wasn’t able to post this twice. When I copied and pasted it in from a Word doc, it scrubbed out the links. But it’s easy enough to look up : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kicker/is-bernie-sanders-on-the-_b_10266334.html

    1. That's like dating a known serial killer to make your ex, the control freak, jealous. In other words, it just makes no freaking sense for anyone at all, let alone "smart progressives".

    2. OK James. We get it. You're a confirmed Bernie or Buster, fond of sites that refer to HRC as Killary and we'll just have to beat Trump without you and your merry little crew. Fine. Will do. Try not to make too much of a mess when your head explodes. 

      1. Please don't project, BC. I do not engage in the cult of personality politics. What I care about is policy. Clinton's policies regarding the economy, world trade and military engagement make her unsupportable.

        Once again, you engage in the propaganda of the binary choice. The only way to fight Trump is to support Hillary. That is simply not true.

        BTW: The article comes from Politico – hardly a "Killary" website. I posted it so you and Voyageur might take a moment to get out of the Democratic Party bubble.

          1. No, V., it isn't hate. Why must it be that you must disrespect anyone who criticizes your "Precious"? 

            I don't think it is fair to accuse James or Zap or mama of being hateful. I know I don't "hate" Hillary…I don't think any of us do. We have legitimate issues with the prospect of another Clinton presidency. Your "adoration" of Hillary clouds your judgement. Relax…we are not the "enemy".

            1. You and mj certainly dont hate.  Dodd hates with every fiber of his being.  If the sun rises in the east, it's hillary's fault.  And if you dont think zappy hates bennet, you haven't read his last 96,532 posts.

    1. I remember reading somewhere once that, for many years, he was the most widely recognized human being on the planet. 

      "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un"

      Rest, now.

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