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August 18, 2005 08:00 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 63 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

How ’bout them Broncos?

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63 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  3. More people pay attention to the Broncos than they do to politics.  The more the two are combined, the more people are involved, and the better we are as a society.  Put John Elway on a bus and see what kind of crowds you get…lie about him being on a bus and see how many people talk about you.  It’s all about the Broncos baby!

  5. The Broncos rule the Rocky Mountains. I think we have a great team in the making and will dominate the Western AFC Conference.

    Don’t think Elway is going to spend any time on the RV tour for pork or whatever he has too many business deals going on, I will concede though if Marc took Elway to Eastern, Southern, or Northern CO it would draw huuuuuge crowds.

    But it isn’t going to happen so my bet is crowds will be non existant and he will have to piggy back on already scheduled GOP events which there are not alot of until early next year other than the breakfast club circut he has alreay hit.

    Go Broncos and Alva block out that Raider puke who posted that’s a new low for this site and that’s saying something. GO BRONCOS!

  7. I think it bears noting that over 2000 people went out last night in Colorado to express their support for an answer to Cindy Sheehan’s question: “what noble cause are our soldiers dying for?”  Vigils of assorted sizes were held throughout the state.

    There were more than 700 people at the Denver Capitol rally (moved to the Civic Center Park apparently due to concerns about candle wax on the Capitol stairs).  Another 250+ went a few blocks down to Cheesman Park, while others spread out through other city locations.  In Castle Rock, almost 50 people held vigil, while in Boulder, 800+ showed up at the vigil in front of the courthouse, while hundreds of others gathered in intersections and other locations throughout the city.  Colorado Springs had over 300 people Standing with Cindy, as the vigil slogan went.

    News coverage was broad – on all the local TV news broadcasts – as well as in the Post, Camera, and the News.

  8. Davbe – lighten up – the Broncos may be one of the few areas of agreement among many of the Rs and Ds on this site.  Let’s celebrate our togetherness, man – peace love and harmony in Bronco-Nation.

    Seriosuly, the Broncos (and sports in general – both team-based and outdoor sports) rule this region in a way no politician ever will.  I bet name recognition for the Broncos second-string QB is higher than that for the leading candidates for Governor, or even elected members of Congress.

    Not related to Colorado, but there’s a great story about an incumbent office-holder in Wisconsin who would only agree to debates with opponents during Packers games. That would most likely work here too.

  9. So, who’s in favor for Council Bill 601 in Denver?  Are you righties for it?  It will decriminalize possession of up to 1 ounce of marijuana in Denver City and County.  I wrote a litte piece on how passing this will save the Denver PD money over at SoapBlox Colorado (click my name to see it).

  11. Peter:
    “I have made very few negative comments about any of the other candidates,” is what you said in a post yesterday. Alongside that and other similar comments, you kept refering to 100-1 odds.
    Today, are you ready to admit the world that you are, in fact, Herb Rubenstein?

    P.S: You smell like a hot dumpster.

  12. Leave it to the liberals to think that a vigil will make a difference. No one cares how many people showed up in support of a grief-blinded crackpot. She isn’t making a difference and neither are you.

  13. Leave it to the liberals to think that a vigil will make a difference. No one cares how many people showed up in support of a grief-blinded crackpot. She isn’t making a difference and neither are you.

  14. Leave it to the liberals to think that a vigil will make a difference. No one cares how many people showed up in support of a grief-blinded crackpot. She isn’t making a difference and neither are you.

  15. Peter:
    “I have made very few negative comments about any of the other candidates,” is what you said in a post yesterday. Alongside that and other similar comments, you kept referring to 100-1 odds.

    Today, are you ready to admit the world that you are, in fact, Herb Rubenstein?

    P.S: You smell like a hot dumpster.

  16. Impressive response there Orage Man, have you ever heard of the freedom of speech?  Or is is just freedom of speech when it is convenient for you or against anything that Republicans do?

    Nice Double Standard….

  17. Peter:
    “I have made very few negative comments about any of the other candidates,” is what you said in a post yesterday. Alongside that and other similar comments, you kept referring to 100-1 odds.

    Today are you ready to admit the world that you are, in fact, Herb Rubenstein?

    P.S: You smell like a hot dumpster.

  18. I grew up in Ohio, when the Broncos would ALWAYS beat the Browns in the AFC championship game (or something very close).

    I can’t like the Broncos yet.  Damn that John Elway!

  19. Impressive response there Orage Man, have you ever heard of the freedom of speech?  Or is is just freedom of speech when it is convenient for you or against anything that Republicans do?

    Nice Double Standard….

  20. Hey Galo, you’re a first class A-hole.  Calling someone a “grief-blinded crackpot” because they are upset by their son’s meaningless death (and they are doing something about it) is the epitome of ignorance. Maybe in your world she should just stay home, shut her mouth, and accept that it was God’s and W’s will – yeah, that will provide some solace.  Jerk.

  21. shouldn’t the chickenhawk galo be in Iraq?  Oh wait… coward.  Go fight for your president who puts his party before his country.

    Alas, Galo is a coward.

  22. Hey Galosucks:

    Get a clue.  Her son signed up and took the paycheck and knew the risks.  The military is not an opt-out program based on your mother’s thoughts.

    Let me know how your hug me, understand me, defend me, sessions go with terrorists.  Hope you don’t cry to much when the military doesn’t come rescue you.

  23. Hey I served.  It is faulty logic to say I want to be understood and loved/hugged by terrorists because I think the war in Iraq is a mistake, but if that’s a dead horse you want to beat, go ahead.  If we weren’t in Iraq we could have finished off Osama by now, and you know it.  Don’t presume to tell people who are for a strong national defense and a smarter persecution of the war that they are somehow liberal bedwetters.

  24. Also, Cindy Sheehan’s son signed up to fight in Afghanistan because he believed in that cause; he apparently never believed in the cause of going to Iraq, and was disappointed when he found out he wasn’t going to serve the “noble cause” he thought he would be fighting.

    If you listen to Cindy, she does not sound nor act like a “grief-blinded crackpot”.  I went in support because I believe the country needs to have her question answered: “what noble cause are our soldiers dying for?”  Do you agree that we should have that answered?  Shouldn’t we know what the President is sending our citizens to die for?

    In a debate with Al Gore, Dubya said he would only go to war for vital national security interests, if we had a well-defined mission, a well-equipped army, and a clear exit strategy; he added he wouldn’t do nation-building.  Where are we now, Mr. President?  Would you like to debate yourself on that?

  25. Republican politicians are largely tying themselves to Bush’s policies, domestic and foreign.  They stand in lockstep to protect the symbol of their party from damage, and they send a unified message to enforce groupthink to the media.  They and their mouthpieces demand attention, and belittle anything that stands in their way.

    If and when the top of the chain is broken, the rest of the GOP is going to have problems saving themselves from tumbling down themselves…  Bush’s approval ratings are about as low as they’re going to go unless Republicans stop listening to the mighty Wurlitzer; that will happen if one of several investigations breaks through the barriers, and then all bets are off for the 2006 GOP.

    Ohio is already a lost cause; Gov. Taft just pled nolo contendre to 4 charges of ethics violations, and the GOP downfall is nowhere near complete yet.  I expect the R’s will lose 6 of the 8 Congressional seats they now hold in Ohio, and possibly also Sen. DeWine’s seat.  A turnover in Musgrave’s and/or Beauprez’s seats would be an addition to a potential landslide back to Democratic Party control.

  26. Phoenix –

    You are very intelligent … you raise very important questions.  I would like to ask our President the same questions that you have raised. 

    However, our President is too busy riding his bicycle on vacation.

  27. Phoenix –

    I am also worried, from what I heard over the radio yesterday.  It was stated that President Bush is spending a great deal of his time reading 3 books, about 1500 pages.  One of those books is about a worldwide plague that could kill millions.  The other book is named “Alexander the Second.”  I don’t know the third.  IF this is true … then, why is he reading these books?  It seems when Bush goes on vacation, something terrible happens.  Are we expecting another 911 event?  The anniversary of that terrible day is next month … these things concern me.

  29. Anyone hear Tancredo’s interview on NPR last night?  He said we should be patroling the Mexican border with unmanned planes, a.k.a. drones.  Sounds like someone has a case of the Rubensteins.

  30. I think DHS is patrolling, or planning to patrol, with drones.  I think it’s more a case that Tancredo’s not in touch with what’s already being done.  Sensor nets, drones, lots (but not enough) Border Patrol agents – the area already has the feel of a DMZ…

  32. Bush’s 3rd book is about the history of SALT!!?!?!?!  Are you kidding? 

    Can’t he save the pleasure reading for the next 40 years of his sliver-spoon life? 

    I’ll bet if either of his daughters had to serve in Iraq, he’d be spending more time worrying about what is going on there.

  33. Well I have complete faith in Tancredo’s ability to achieve those things.  However, it might just be more effective for him to propose bombing Mexico City if Mexico keeps allowing their disease ridden citizens sneak over the border.

  34. The issue here is choice. Casey Sheehan chose to join the United States Military, and accepted the risks associated therewith. His death is a tragedy, and he is — the same as the other soldiers — a hero in every sense of the word. Cindy has the right to protest just like any other citizen. However, because her son made the ultimate sacrifice though a choice of his own, and not a draft, her “ultimate authority,” as it has been called, to question the President is considerably reduced.

    That being said, my point was that she isn’t accomplishing anything through her little vigil, save besmirching the memory of her fallen son. And likewise, Phoenix Rising and his fellow protesters are not doing anything by marching on the Capitol, save making themselves feel better by bitching in unison, rather than alone. And you want to accuse me of groupthink?

  35. Bush’s 3rd book is about the history of SALT!!?!?!?! Are you kidding?

    So what’s the title?

    I can actually cobble together a few parallels between the pre-modern salt trade and the contemporary oil trade, so such a book could actually be a worthwhile read.

  36. Phoenix, we need to ban land mines right away!  I cannot turn on the news without hearing how many people around the world are being blown up by american land mines!  Fortunately we already banned DDT, which could be used by developing countries to save tens of thousands of lives each year by stopping the spread of disease, but we won’t let those bastards have it!

    By the way, maybe instead of machine gun turrents people from other countries could trying to obey our immigration policies.

  38. Notice how the GOoPs never talk about going after people who employeee illegal workers.

    It’s just as un-American and against the law to hire an illegal.  We should just start raiding Wendys.

  39. EXCUSE ME?  “besmirching the memory of her son”!?!?!?  She is doing what Presidents throughout our history have considered the most patriotic thing to do: hold our government accountable.  Did her son die so that people like you could smear his mom when she tried to get an answer from her government?  If so, we are truly not sending our soldiers to die for something noble anymore.

    We outlawed DDT because it was killing off birds, including our national symbol.  No other nation in this world still uses or stockpiles land mines – just us.  Our land mines still kill people in Vietnam and elsewhere.  They are deployed by the thousands along the DMZ on the Korean peninsula – perhaps the only remaining rational use for them, if we were to clean them up properly when we left.

    You folks are bringing out the worst in me today; I just don’t understand the whole Religious Right take on Christianity, and I can’t fathom where you’re getting your weird rationales on today’s topics.  I think some prayerful meditation is in order…

  40. Hey C&D opponents – thanks for the email spam today.  i was undecided on this issue but am now voting FOR it.  Why you thought that a poorly written, unasked-for email would make me see your POV is beyond me.

    I swear polticos are some of the dumbest people on the planet.

  42. Get Bent – Offer, or suggestion?

    Seriously though: no one cares how you’re going to vote, you’re an activist, if you weren’t, you wouldn’t on this website.  You’ve been written off for years, and don’t even know it: and its the saddest thing I’ve heard all day.

  44. Your right Phoenix, We should protect the birds and let tens of thousands of humans die of disease each year.  I would like you to go over to Africa and tell someone who has a child that is dying it could have been prevented, but you wanted to protect our national bird. 

    As for land mines, why would we take a military tool off the table that could protect American lives?  Can you tall me, since Korea and VietNam, where has the U.S. used land mines?

    As for Sheehan, are you saying that she has the right to say whatever se wants with impunity and people who disagree with her can’t?  Yes, her son died so all people can say whatever they want.  She seems pleased with the answers she got from the government the first time she got to meet Bush.

    Your are proving each day that you are a liberal elitist.

  45. I’m about as far from an activist as you can get.  Lots of ‘normal’ people on this blog these days; in case you hadn’t noticed – all kinds of mentions in the DP/RMN…anyway like i said, thanks for the nudge i needed.

  47. me –

    The Catholics have not been helpful about this issue.  They really have taken this element to an extreme.  I doubt Jesus would want children to be born one after another, in conditions where no child should be born.  It is ungodly to allow children to suffer in Africa … I dispise the Catholic Church for their unwillingness to recognize that you must learn to how to walk, before you are able to change …

    The Catholics have been protecting their own agenda, at the risk of children … this is absolutely VERY VERY devilish and among the Opus Day.

  48. Pacified and Jonathan,

    You’re right about holding those who hire illegals accountable.  Read below from the Durango Herald (it was a wire story originally).  Does that mean you’re voting for Beauprez?

    Beauprez outlines tough immigration-control proposals

    Sunday, August 7th 2005

    FORT COLLINS – Tough penalties should be levied against businesses that employ undocumented immigrants, Republican gubernatorial candidate Bob Beauprez said.

    Read on:

    http://durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&article_path=/news/05/news050807_6.htm

  49. Bob,

    I might be proving myself liberal – I’ll proudly accept a label meaning “persuing an agenda of improving the human condition”.  And if, by elitist, you mean that I base my stances on my educational background, I’ll proudly admit that I haven’t ditched the things I’ve learned in school and college.

    DDT was responsible for a massive die-off of raptors and other birds; when an entire set of species die off, the consequences ripple through the entire ecosystem.  The eventual consequences of such a die-off would far exceed the almost zero consequences of banning it; DDT’s only advantage was its low cost – several substances immediately stepped up to the plate to replace DDT, and IIRC, DDT was not totally banned – just limited to specific locations (like poor overseas countries); I can’t confirm that last, but it sticks in my memory – regardless, it doesn’t change the argument.

    According to the United States Campaign to Ban Landmines (http://banminesusa.org), from 1969-1992, we “exported” over 4.4 million landmines to countries including Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia (and of course Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia).

    If you want to disagree with Cindy (or with me), fine.  If you want to attack her with baseless and ridiculous accusations, I think I have the right to counter-attack on her behalf.  “Grief-stricken crackpot” ranks up there with Phil Hendrie’s “ignorant cow” and Charles Krauthammer’s “libeling America” comments.

    The people camped out at Camp Casey are overwhelmingly military or families of military; they are bi(non)-partisan, and they just want to know that their (relatives’) brother and sister soldiers are getting the best planning, provisioning, and justification for being at war.

  50. I dispise the Catholic Church for their unwillingness to recognize that you must learn to how to walk, before you are able to change .

    All hands on the Barque of Peter:  Hoist the Vatican flag and the Jolly Roger, we’ve attracted the disdain of a cliche-spouting blabbermouth!

    I’d be happy to argue about birth control, but I don’t think this is quite the venue for it.  To sum up:  babies aren’t STDs and marriage is about the total gift of self.

  51. Hi Peter,
    I am not sure anyone has done much about the population of Africa.

    Kevin Jones,
    The women and men birthing 10-20 children are not usually married to the best of my knowledge.  And I wasn’t necessarily speaking of the kind of birth control to which you are referring.  I was speaking more about educating the people and showing them that they could have healthier, happier, safer children if they were to plan.  However, given the AIDS crisis in Africa, I am not sure physical birth control would be a bad idea.  Most religions and their leaders are severely out of touch with the hardships of the real world.

  52. Phoenix Rising, Please (no, pretty please) spare us the sermonizing on DDT, land mines, and the “bipartisan” nature of Camp Casey.  (Feel free to weigh in on restructuring the UN Security Council and the demise of the Brazilian Muscrat along the Rhine River in your next post.) 

    What are you, the Yoda of Colorado Pols?  Wise soothsayer of all things political gossip? 

    Spare us.

    And by the way, you know nothing about border security.  Check out any of the dozens of GAO audits over the last several years that have ripped the glaring lack of presence on the border – DHS or otherwise.  One analysis found that most the federal lands abutting the border were totally without protective presence.  DMZ.  Right, Wise Phoenix, whatever.

    There’s a reason Napolitano and Richardson declared the border a disaster area.  IT IS!  Plus, they read the polls and figured out what a HUGE issue immigration has become.  I know, I know: it seems so far removed from the day to day struggles that you encounter in your spacious luxury loft primely positioned above Pearl Street in Boulder.  Well Wise Phoenix, if the border were the flippin’ DMZ, do ya think that the guy who turned over nuclear secrets to China would be getting tough on immigration? 

    It’s a problem.  Save all your talk of unmanned drones and the other stuff you learned on Google for your conversations with the bellhop at the loft.  He’ll be impressed.  We’re not.

    Oh and by the way, that bipartisan exemplar down at Camp Casey called W. the world’s biggest terrorist yesterday.  You’re right Phoenix Surmising: real bipartisan down there at Camp Casey.

  53. givemeabreak –

    Spare us your dry dribble.  Nothing in your statement impresses me … matter in fact, border security has only become an issue because of the loss of vision by the Republicans, who now are finally realizing the error of their ways, attempting to figure out how to support improved border security without looking like they support the Democratic position.  Indeed, President Bush has basically gave away the farm from Mexico, hoping for the support in votes for his Party, thinking that we are coddling the new electoriate for the future growing GOP.  Well, it is not working.  Consider the fact that Salazar beat the pants off of Coors and the Mexican culture recognizes this scheme.  The Mexican culture is much smarter than this … the President of Mexico is much smarter than this.  The Democrats have been advocating improved border security, not because they are against immigration of the poor in Mexico to the US, but to protect our country against a terrorist that walks into our country untouched.  It is pretty damn easy to see that President Bush seemingly is opening our border for some type of “bring it on” … an open offer for another attack, which would then guarantee his fearful agenda.  My goodness, wasn’t it President Bush that pushed aside the reality of a possible attack for months before 911, ignoring Bin Laden and those risks?  Wasn’t he on vacation during those months … yep he was.  I don’t know his further motivations, but it is certain that tghe GOP has not done its best in supplying our troops with proper armor against IED’s in Iraq.  Further, his Administration has had so many that have left his Administration (Clarke and Powell, as examples), who realized that his planning was suspect and the policies as a creation of more terrorists in the future.  An advocation of not protecting our borders, is alikened to opening a doorway that needs to be locked, chained and most certainly protecting our America against an policy that too many in Washington simply don’t agree with.

    Don’t you worry Phoenix … the Majority of the country stands with you and against more of our men and women dying for a war that should have never been started. 

    Arrrgggggg.  Thank God for our Liberty, and I pray for peace … and a change in Leadership in 2006, to protect us against the radical GOP.

  54. Me –

    I agree with you completely … the out-of-touch radical Christain agenda has greatly harmed many many children …

    Africa has been a much greater disaster than what has happened in Iraq … believe it or not.  Many millions of children have simply starved to death.  At the moment 11.7 million are feared to be on the edge of death of starvation … and, worse, a fraction of our military budget could have saved all of them.  It is unconcionable that we have ignored Africa for decades … and decades.  If it were not for the Democrats, I am certain that nothing would have been done to help them … except send people to Africal, noting that they are brown skinned and we simply don’t care about brown skinned people.

  56. Hey Peter,
    Newsflash for you, the same polls that you quote now said that the majority of the people did not approve of President Bush and the way he does his job right before the election…. but he still won the electoral vote AND the popular vote.

    Could it be that your polls that you love to quote all day long are slanted and misleading themselves?

  57. I never said border security was sufficient, just that we already have drones (and scanner nets, and…).  I was at the AZ border just a year ago; DHS has an Air Force base worth of patrol cars and other equipment down in Tucson.  The problem is, the border is so much larger than we could hope to adequately defend.

    It would be cheaper to have DHS inspectors auditing every business of over 10 employees than it would be to defend our Southern border.  Of course, we need stronger documentation and verification systems to help employers and auditors.  Dry up the ability of people to make money here illegally, and we won’t have to spend so much time chasing down the people smugglers.

    I don’t agree with Cindy that Bush is a terrorist; leaders of countries aren’t terrorists – they’re war criminals.

    I think the reason you’re “not impressed” with anything I have to say is that you can’t actually respond to it with a real rebuttal.  I mean, it has to be hard to defend a President who is cutting airport security by 15%; is re-allowing ice picks, knives, and box-cutters on planes; and hasn’t spent much money or time increasing security at other truly vulnerable points in our infrastructure – all while taking his eye off the Al Qaeda ball in favor of a grudge match against Iraq.

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