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November 05, 2008 04:57 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 91 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Foot on throat, baby.

Comments

91 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

  1. Looks like we didn’t quite get landslide numbers. Although considering the shit turnout at the polling place I was working outside yesterday, when I was thinking Obama had lost Colorado and probably every other close state, it was pretty good news. (Recovering from a slight hangover this morning.)

    So redstateblues, I owe you a sixpack. Where do you live, anyway? Email me at sxp151@gmail.com. I’m flying out tomorrow, but I think I’ll spend today celebrating.

  2. 1.  I was an election judge yesterday and, except for a 7-8:30 a.m. rush, we were slow as molasses all day.  What a disappointment, until I called home and heard the results!

    2.  And first thing this morning, I get an email from Barack Obama asking me to donate to the DNC.  Not today, sorry!

    What a great night!  What a great day today!  And what a great future for America!

    1. But do you recall the context? It was all about clean coal and the reference cited was with respect to dirty coal.

      Global warming hasn’t gone away. We still need to develop and deploy clean energy. I’m sorry to hear that you’re so dead-set against that. I’m sure that our friends in Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia will be glad to hear that.

      1. I’m sure he knows exactly what the context was – but just like the losing Republican campaign, he’s trying to piss on our leg and tell us it’s raining.

          1. It really was a genius move finding the one thing in common that all successful civilizations share (Co2) and moving to tax it under the guise of catastrophe needing to be averted.

            Brilliant, truly.

              1. go into full AGW debate mode so soon after watching my party deservedly get hammered?

                BTW, the carbon footprint from all those big rallies must be terrible!

                1. Frankly, the economy is not going to be “fixed” without simultaneously addressing the environmental impacts of what we subsidize and otherwise promote by policy.

                  Addressing issues of energy, food production and distribution, education, export opportunities, and jobs that will be held by Americans living in the US, can and must be done while considering (and minimizing and mitigating) impacts to our local and global life support systems.

                  The US economy will never be sufficiently large to be able to cover even just the costs of providing clean water and the pollination of fruits and vegetables. These services are currently provided for free by ecosystems processes we barely understand. It would require gobs more than $700,000,000 to bail out our sorry asses if we over-leverage these ecosystem services.

                  We must address large scale environmental issues and our pathological focus on short term economic concerns simultaneously or we will just be borrowing even more against our grandchildren.

                  (BTW, no need to go into “full AGW debate mode.” I’m confident in the science. It is as solid as our understanding of basic physics and chemistry. Feedbacks are a bear, though! Just because some are unhappy with some of the postulated economic impacts doesn’t have an scintilla of an impact on the underlying scientific understanding.)

                  (FWIW, I’m going to hazard a guess that one large outdoor rally attended by 100,000 people has a smaller carbon footprint than that of 100 indoor “town hall” meetings attended by 1,000 people each. Everything we do requires energy. So to gloat that “you do it too” leaves me unfazed. You need clean air and clean water more frequently than I need gasoline.)

                  It remains true: The economy IS a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment.

                  1. We’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this.  I respect where you’re coming from, but I disagree on AGW to my level of understanding.

                    Convince me – is there indisputable evidence as to Co2 and it’s impact on the earth’s temperature even though it makes up such a miniscule part of the atmosphere?

                    My understanding is that nobody really knows what a raised Co2 level does, and that while Co2 has been greatly increasing, the temperature hasn’t followed it since 1998.

                    Not being snarky, I promise.

                    1. LB, I wouldn’t be responding to you if I thought you were being snarky. I’ve been contributing in a small way to CoPols for two years. I’ve great respect for you. Anyway…

                      The impact of elevated atmospheric CO2 on surface temperatures have been understood for over 100 years. Check out Svante Arrhenius’ 1896 paper if you’re interested. (There’s a link to the paper in the bibliography on this wikipedia link.)

                      The evidence for the direct effects of CO2 on temperature is indisputable. What is still being investigated are the degree and nature of feedbacks (in the chemical, physical, hydrological & biological systems on earth).

                      It’s complicated. No scientist is saying that only CO2 impacts temperature. But no atmospheric scientist is saying there are no impacts from changing CO2.

                      There is uncertainty, of course. This is true of all scientific knowledge. Scientists focus on the uncertainty because this is where new understanding will emerge.

                      As for the “low” concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere … well, you might want to look up the concentration of arsenic that could kill you outright. It is truly miniscule. Small quantities of some materials can have truly outsize effects. The physics of which electromagnetic wavelengths are sensitive to water vapor vs. which are sensitive to CO2 is way to much for this blog!

                      1998 was an El Nino year. Something like 7 of the warmest years on record have come during the last decade. Look at the trends over the last 100 years. The last 1000 years. It’s pretty unmistakable.

                      I could go on, but my posts are way too long, especially being scrunched up on the right edge the way they are. If you’re interested Real Climate is a good source. Written by real climate scientists. Every now and then they get into policy or popular issues. But mostly they stick to science.

                    2. I suppose if you start from an arbitrary year picked for being a high temperature point, the following years don’t quite match up.

                      But the longer term trend is pretty obvious.  Use some statistical averaging and it stands out.

                    3. Again, 1998 was really warm.

                      Based on this graph, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006 would each be the warmest year over the last 150 years of record if the others (including 98) didn’t exist.

                      Instrumental Temperature Record

  3. Russia Warns of New Missile Deployment

    MOSCOW – In a wide-ranging attack on the United States as it elected a new president, the Russian leader Dmitri A. Medvedev warned on Wednesday that Moscow might deploy short-range missiles in the Baltic region to counter a perceived threat from a proposed American missile defense shield in eastern Europe.

    Pretty neat night, though.  I’m alternating between my feelings of pride at seeing a black man standing in front of all those flags as the President, and a little fear that he’s going to lurch so hard to the left that it makes things worse very quickly.

    Mostly pride and er… hope.  Did I just use that word?

    Good luck, Mr. President-Elect.  Keep my girls safe and stay out of my wallet as much as you can.  Please try to help fix my schools even if your union buddies don’t like it.  

    You have about 16 months with a Dem Congress to get busy or I’ll help un-elect you in four years, but congrats.  I’m very proud of you.

  4. Ewegen’s amendment #49 to screw Right-to-Work government employees goes down in flames. If you don’t want to bear the added cost of unionization, you shouldn’t put yourself in that position in the 1st place.

    I must agree with Caldera’s puppet display showing the lobbyist handing back cash to the politician; it does sell the issue at a high level. Facts are facts though, these workers have the right-to-work — they have choice. I suggest you run a legislative bill to charge the union a “collection fee”. 😉

    Amendment 47 – it is truly sad the corrupt coalition to block workplace choice (keep forced unionization) succeeded.

    Joe Blake and Tom Clark … what do you think boys … the EcoDev guys in Dallas, KC, SLC and heck Chicago just might use your opposition to RTW to show their business buddies that you are corrupt bastards. Brothers who cannot be trusted, terrorist negotiators, unprincipled tools of the Union Bosses.

    54. The Union Bosses must be grinning their asses off. They got corporate bosses and political bosses to buy into their external corruption. Then the bastards lose 54 (wink) which will expose the inside dealers. Union bosses will funnel their political cash through alternate channels.

    p.s. to the business community … don’t buy into the corrupt Chamber program to support legal challenges to 54, remember 41.

    1. Colorado taxpayers and Colorado citizens win with 54 – principled and transparent. Hint to corrupt bastards, participate in public bids. It is simple, fair and sustainable.

      Big ups to POTUS Elect Obama too.

        1. next election, you lose your minimum wage shill job to some guy in Bangadesh who gets $2 an hour. The thing is, he has a far better command of the English language than you do;-)

  5. It’s still sinking in for me that we actually did it – we elected an African-American, with a “foreign sounding” name – and did it in a landside (electoral & popular votes). We elected the person – and that is an amazing testament to this country.

        1. Mondale garnered 13 electoral votes.

          THAT’s an ass kicking.  This isn’t.

          McCain did much better than I thought he would.  If not for the financial mess in September, he’d have won this election.

          1. On a flight to Tulsa, on April 1, a moderate Republican talked to me the entire time about politics.  He suggested that if something bad happened in the Middle East the party should immediately send McCain through, if it’s the economy, Romney.  No primary needed.  Bottom line.

            I think you’re right, the economy killed McCain, without it he would have done better.

          2. We were talking about landslides, not ass-kickings.

            This is a landslide. No, it’s not Nixon ’72 or Reagan ’84, but 2/3 of the Electoral College is a landslide.

            1. …popular vote yesterday was not.  

                Then again, compared to what the “winner” in the popular vote in the last two elections received, Obama’s popular vote total is nothing to sneer at!  

          3. Or if he had picked someone other than an air headed, inexperienced beauty queen. I think she turned many level headed moderates away from the ticket.

            1. McCain would have had no interest or support from the base if not for her.

              Underestimate Sarah Palin at your own peril.  She’s going to be a force.

              1. They would not have gone to Obama, a few maybe to Barr.  They just came to Jesus with greater enthusiasm and presence earlier with Sarah.  

                I’m not underestimating Palin.  Nor am I overestimating her intelligence, depth, or experience generally.  

                1. Via Andrew Sullivan

                  NBC-WSJ GOP pollster Neil Newhouse did a post-election survey last night, and here’s what he found: Just 12% of those surveyed believed Palin should be the GOP’s new leader; instead 29% of voters said Romney, followed by 20% who say Huckabee. Among GOPers, it was Romney 33%, Huckabee 20% and Palin 18%.

                  Romney read the writing the on the wall and jumped off the shinking ship. I wonder who’s “aides” leaked this info to Newsweek

                  NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin’s shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain’s top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family–clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent “tens of thousands” more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as “Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast,” and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

                  1. That is going to be the image I’ll recall any time someone refers to her as a “reformer.” That shopping spree shows she’s as corrupt as the bums she replaced.

                  2. Can suck farts out of my asshole.  He’s a lunatic, still chasing Palin’s doctor around about whether she actually gave birth to her child.

                    He’s about as conservative as you are.  Not nearly as intelligent and put together.

                    I’m really disappointed in the Atlantic.  Between the McCain photos and Sullivan acting like a giant rectal wart I canceled my subscription.  It’s just too much.

                    1. In this case he was just reporting what a pollster’s findings. You can hate on him for his opinions all you want, but remember – even a broken clock blah blah blah.

                      BTW, the act you invited Sullivan to perform on you is known as “felching.” Just so you know. (Since it’s not a well known term you can use it and usually get away without having the scolds getting on your case.)

              2.    LB, the exit polling yesterday reported on ABC News showed that somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of people polled though that she was unqualified to be president.

                  While she’s not quite down in Dan Quayle’s league, she comes close.

                  I hope you guys do run her at the top of your ticket next time, with Bobby “the Exorcist” Jindahl as her running mate.

                1. Palin may very well, as has been bandied about, find a place withing the media: TV, more than likely. It’ll have to be a tightly-controlled show so she can shine, kind of like what Rush’s radio show allows Limbaugh to do.

                  Would Palin go to D.C. as a legislator, in order to gain more credible experience? That would defeat her big selling point as an “outsider.”

                  However, unless Obama turns out to be a complete failure, Palin (or most Republicans) won’t have much of a chance against him in 2012.

                  But maybe by 2012 Palin will have learned more about the world at large: like, that Africa is a continent and not a country:

                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

  6. With the re-election of Ted Stevens (convicted felon) and Don Young (soon to be convicted felon) it’s clear that by local standards Sarah Palin is a major reformer and a true maverick.

    What is wrong with the voters in that state? It’s like Louisiana (or Hawaii).

    1. All of those whose Alaska friends were taken aback by Palin’s reception in the lower 48 should take note of the re-election of Stevens as a gauge of how nutty they are.

    2. All of those whose Alaska friends were taken aback by Palin’s reception in the lower 48 should take note of the re-election of Stevens as a gauge of how nutty they are.

      1. At the Presidential level, where their damage is usually harmless.

        However, locally, the Green Party has cost us a Green county. He didn’t campaign, voters didn’t vote for Zulauf because he was spreading a message they liked, they voted for him for the novelty of voting for a Third Party candidate.

        He drives an SUV. He printed his campaign lit on non-recyclable paper. He wasn’t even a good green, just a place-holder on the ballot, and he delivered this county to Republicans.

          1. I staffed Jason on this campaign. We had a field organization that’s never been seen before, and we came within 2% of beating an Incumbent Republican within Jefferson County. If it weren’t for the Green Party on the ballot, there’s no doubt in my mind that we would’ve won.

        1. .

          I didn’t even hit my target of 10,000 votes.  

          .

          I intended to give CD-5 voters a chance to vote to end the Iraq war,

          but I did such a poor job of getting the word out that they even had that choice

          that most people thought the only choices were:

          …A… “stay the course and achieve victory so our troops can come home with honor,” Doug Lamborn, or

          …B… “whatever Obama decides is OK with me,” Hal Bidlack.  

          So, for the next 2 years, there will be no effort to end the war.  Unless you think that “Reasonable Plan” freshman signatories are going to have an impact by sitting in Washington and wringing their hands.  

          I believe the 2006 election was about ending the war, and that went nowhere.  This cycle, the warmongers pulled some strings and got people worried about the economy so Iraq wouldn’t be a top issue.  

          We will still be in Iraq, in large numbers, for the foreseeable future.  Obama’s 16-month pull-out schedule will yield to the exigencies of partisan politics.  

          NEWSFLASH: Obama is not unpartisan or anti-partisan, he’s a Democrat.  

          But for the 8,405 voters of CD-5 who stood up for the Constitution and against imperialism and an imperial presidency, we have done what we could to stave off national decline.

          The voters get the government they deserve, and CD-5 deserves Doug Lamborn, the 60% pro-life candidate.  

          .  

          1.    While I don’t necessary agree with you on all issues, I certainly respect your commitment to your principles and your integrity.  I give you credit for running the race.

    1. the third party candidate in Oregon gained you guys a Senate seat.  Pretty unlikely that the 5% of folks that voted for the Constitution Party candidate would have voted for Merkley.

  7. Sometimes life is not about policy. Sometimes life is about bringing us together and growing as a people.  I wish I could put down all that is in my head right now.  Words my Dad would say are ringing in my ears this morning.

    Yes, Obama we govern just fine, maybe even exceptionally, maybe not.  But the fact that we have grown so much in 18 months, in my humble opinion is the real victory.

    Also, Colorado has elected the first openly gay man.  In a time that prop 8 passed in Cali, this to is a victory for our Blue State.

    OK, I am crying again – I have to stop this, people are going to think I am a weenie – and I just could bear that!

    Congrats America!

    1. I feel so emotional today and I sobbed through his acceptance speech.

      I’m so proud of my state, so proud of my country and really am so proud of how folks on both sides of the aisle have expressed what seems to be a genuine interest in working together. This isn’t going to work unless we come together.

      This is our chance, as a country and as a people, to shine again. We’re all in this together.

        1. My best friend from Hawaii just called. She said her husband Jim last night was crying like a baby while watching his acceptance speech. It was impossible not to, wasn’t it?

          🙂

      1. http://www.dailycamera.com/new

        Reading a little more, it seems we’re slow as hell at counting votes, and even the mail-in votes haven’t been counted yet. There’s some silly problem with dust in the mail-in ballots.

        And they say they’re expecting 170,000 people to have voted, out of I think 210,000 total.

        So maybe I spoke too soon. I’ll wait for fuller results before bitching.

        1. When I heard the report, it started to sound familiar.  Dust gets caught in the inch strip that scans, you get a straight line on the page.  I can see how the computer would be confused by it.

  8. This time, for real.

    Obama’s speech last night could have been his inaugural, it was that good. I’ve listened to a fair amount of FDR speeches and Kennedy and I think that Obama has them all beat, even The Great Communicator.  His cadence, his demeanor, his striking all of the right notes.

    Within the framework of “It’s exactly the same but different,” now I know how my parent’s generation felt with FDR.  

    It’s morning in America.  For real.

  9. Republicans ruled CO in 2000:

    President

    Both Senators

    5/7 Congress-critters

    State Senate

    General Assembly

    Now it is completely reversed (which of course provides a cautionary tale for Dem’s of the dangers of hubris).

  10. As a Democrat, last night felt different than anything I’ve felt in a long time.  But now this morning I’m filled less with joy and more with a combination of unease and determination.  Instant punditry analysis says that this is a moment that will mark a turning point in American political history.  That’s certainly true in terms of electing the first non white male, but whether its something larger than that remains to be seen.  

    The question for Democrats nationally and especially here in Colorado, is whether after all the confetti is cleaned up and the hugs and chants are over, can we actually lead in a way that surpasses that of the Republicans whose firing we helped organize.  Come tomorrow and the next day, politics will become politics again and the temptation of immense power will come calling.  I think, in the end, its up to president-elect Obama.  If he wields power responsibly, ethically and with nobility, I think the rest of the Democratic Party will follow suit.  But choosing to wield power responsibly, ethically and with nobility when you’re not forced to and could get away with doing otherwise is a trait that very few politicians have and that was ultimately the downfall of our current president and his party.  Our new president is exceptional in many ways, and I hope and pray that this is one of them.

    1. Six years ago, after Bill Owens was elected to his second term, Republicans controlled the statehouse, GWB was two years into his first tere and Republicans controlled Congress, I told my R friends, “it’s all in your hands now.  Don’t f**k up.  If you drive the bus off the road, you’ll have no one to blame but yourselves.”

      The same holds true for Democrats today.

  11. From this interesting article:

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

    The Obama campaign’s New Media experts created a computer program that would allow a “flusher”-the term for a volunteer who rounds up nonvoters on Election Day-to know exactly who had, and had not, voted in real time. They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station.

    We had Houdini lists, but they were not updated in real time. Rather, we had people crossing the names off, and the lists came out every three hours. I don’t know if this was an improvement over last time or not. It felt as if it could have been much more efficient if we’d had a laptop inside every polling place (although I think such things may not be allowed). Or if someone like me had an electronic device outside and could update it every few minutes.  

  12. It would appear that at the least the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons have lost a leg on the stool of perceived racism.  

    Does this mean they will find new bogeymen?  Change their thrust as the March of Dimes did 60 years ago?  

    (I’m certainly aware that racism still exists, I’m referring to blame black failures on racism and making political hay from such perceptions.)

    Say, anyone heard from Jesse today?  

    1. He was in attendance at the Obama rally in Grant Park, tears streaming down his face.

      I think for some, getting past the “victim” mentality will be hard.  Folks like Jackson (Sr.) and Sharpton (and Rev. Wright, for that matter) had good reason to grow up suspicious and angry, and the grounds to speak of the abuse of the African-American community.  And some of that abuse still goes on today.

      Obama had the benefit of not growing up in either the environment that had engendered the fears of older African-Americans or in the presence of that older generation.  He can, I think, be a healing presence to a lot of different people.

      We can’t sweep racism under the rug, but at least we can now say that America has healed enough to put a non-white person in the highest office in the land.  

      1. Speaking as another who did (my sister was a classmate of Obama) it is totally different from the rest of the US – especially back then. Mixed marriages were (and are) common, having mixed blood means you’re mixed, not black, and there is no single race sitting on top of the heap. Very different world from the one Jackson & Sharpton grew up in.

          1. Obama is probably the only truly African (Dad)- American (Mom) politician.  Until the rise of Obama, AA meant (History) and (Geography.)

            It’s ironic and in one sense too bad that the first president with African blood didn’t get there via slave ancestors.  

            Regardless, this is just discussion fodder and I’m I’m just tickled black that he is our prez-elect!

            1. .

              will usher in a new paradigm,

              where an individual gets to determine their “race,” based on their knowledge of themselves,

              rather than others making that decision for them.  

              Eldrick Woods, Jr. didn’t used to self-identify as black.  His mirror did not say “black.”  I don’t know where he stands today.  

              Funny how in many other cultures the “one drop” rule works in the favor of the individual,

              as in being a Sayyid (descendant of the Prophet,) or being a Jew under the Law of Return, or even qualifying for tribal membership in Native American circles;

              but it becomes a negative discriminator only regarding negro genes, and only in America,

              the nation of immigrants, as far as I know.  

              Somehow, in this nominally egalitarian society, it still means a lot in some circles to be able to trace lineage back to the Mayflower.  Or to be a Daughter of the American Revolution.  Or to be a “Native Coloradoan.”

              Call me an idiot (again,) but I think that, until we accept something like Amendment 46, we institutionalize and tacitly accept discrimination against Americans with Negro ancestry as somehow an essential part of the American experience.  

              .

              1. Affirmative action programs aren’t meant to – and don’t – keep minorities “down”.  They were instituted to right some pretty egregious wrongs, and until we reach a better level of parity they’re still functionally useful.  Neither were they meant to be permanent, and it is at least good to have the Amdt. 46 conversation now and again.

                I think the newer generations are coming up much more race-blind on both sides, and that can only be good.  We need politicians like Obama whose conversations aren’t biased by offenses of the (mostly) past, but who are connected to many different parts of society and can empathize with them.

                There’s still a lot of progress to be made, as you note.  There is no reason that being of a different skin color is any more important (or less pride-worth) than being a descendant of the first Mayflower passage.  Until that’s true for the vast, vast majority of all people – on all sides – we still have work to do.

  13. Judge James Klein, a Boulder judge who was mercilessly attacked throughout Right Blogistan for issuing a ruling correctly following an unpopular law (which was recently changed), has been retained.

    The retention vote was 68%, only 8 points lower than the average retention rate for an average judge. I voted for him just to piss off conservatives. I see that many other Boulder Liberals ™ did the same.

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