U.S. Senate
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(D) J. Hickenlooper*
(R) Somebody
80%
20%
Governor
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(D) Phil Weiser
(D) Joe Neguse
(D) Jena Griswold
60%
60%
40%↓
Att. General
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(D) M. Dougherty
(D) Alexis King
(D) Brian Mason
40%
40%
30%
Sec. of State
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(D) A. Gonzalez
(D) George Stern
(R) Sheri Davis
50%↑
40%
30%
State Treasurer
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(D) Brianna Titone
(R) Kevin Grantham
(D) Jerry DiTullio
60%
30%
20%
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
(R) Somebody
90%
2%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
(R) Somebody
90%
2%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(R) Jeff Hurd*
(D) Somebody
80%
40%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert*
(D) Somebody
90%
10%
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Jeff Crank*
(D) Somebody
80%
20%
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
(R) Somebody
90%
10%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) B. Pettersen*
(R) Somebody
90%
10%
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(R) Gabe Evans*
(D) Yadira Caraveo
(D) Joe Salazar
50%
40%
40%
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
October 21, 2008 09:53 PM UTC
28 Comments
Than one quote, I’m sure Ali Hasan could have found a way to put his foot in his mouth.
Yes Ali has more than his share of foot in mouth moments. But what he said above was classy – a nice change this campaign season.
But one good sentence does not weight out the thousands of others he’s said that made me cringe with schadenfreude.
Is a douchebag, and it has nothing to do with the fact that he’s a Muslim or the fact that he’s a Republican.
We can do much better.
Maybe foot in mouth is a Republican issue 🙂
that one got an out loud laugh.
BTW I agree.
Not very often I feel the need to chide you, Danny. I think the quote of yours above needs to be tempered with “most of them.”
Many Muslims in America are not citizens, too.
A major Pew research a few years ago found that about 25% of young Muslims said that being Muslim was more important than being American. Some similar numbers approved of radical Islam. Yet, Pew spun the story along the lines of “Muslims wonderfully assimilating.” Sorry, when a quarter of a group approves of suicide bombers and such, I can’t think of them being like most Americans.
Most of them, yes. Many, no.
Many Christians in America are not citizens either. Would you rush to chide someone who said, “Christians are just like other Americans”?
Lesseee, most of the people who have lived and do live in America consider themselves Christian. Granted, lots of pretenders and all, but it has been the dominant religion.
Muslims in America is a very new phenomena.
To compare the majority to the minority is completely illogical. Which, dare I say, I’ve seen this before.
The point about citizenship was Danny sort of implied that all Muslims are citizens.
Are some Americans criminals? sure. Some of those are white, some are black some are asian, or arab or jew.
Most american terrorists are white. Whether Tim McViegh or the folks at mountain meadows or WAR or the KKK. Its just because of demographics.
For that matter American Muslims are responsible for very little terrorism compared to the Christian Identity movement (Christian based white supremacy)
My point was that Arab Americans are just like other americans: good and bad. Lazy and hard working. smart and dumb.
I make no comment about foriegn nationals in the US–I don’t trust Canadians.
“But,” as they say:
1. We have huge numbers of residents that are not citizens, here both legally and illegally. Let’s not confuse them with citizens.
2. Other than Timothy McVeigh, the list of “successful” American citizen white terrorists is somewhere between non-existent to not quite a blip on the statistical radar.
3. As there are about 8-9 times the number of “American Christians” than Muslims, of course they might constitute a greater absolute number. From what I’ve observed they mostly go to the woods and pretend they are saving America. (I saw this literally once in north Texas. I pulled into a rest area that already had a white truck in it. Four guys in camo with rifles left it and went into the woods. Weird.)
4. Remember the Pew survey…. “”Younger Muslims are both more religiously observant, more self-identifying as Muslims than older Muslims, and they’re more likely to say that suicide bombing in defense of Islam can be, at least some times, justified,” Kohut says.
One-quarter of Muslims under age 30 said suicide bombing is legitimate on some occasions. That compares with 6 percent of older Muslims.” http://www.npr.org/templates/s…
I don’t have numbers to back this up, but there is no way 25% of American Christians would agree with the terrorist activities of McVeigh and the like.
But how many think bombing Iran is a good idea because they are Islamic and pose a threat to our interests? More accurately, how many Iranian Christians would feel it was justified?
Al Qaeda didn’t attack us because we existed; they attacked us because they saw us as a major threat to their interests in the Middle East, both religious and secular. And as is typical of asymmetrical warfare, they went after targets they thought would do the most damage with the least investment on their part.
…Danny did not imply that all Muslims are citizens. Only your hyper-sensitive, anti-immigrant eyes would come to that conclusion….as the other posts in this thread have made clear.
According to the Pew poll you referenced…
77% of Muslims are US Citizens.
Now, considering the wait time between arrival and citizenship, and immigrants’ frequent long stays under valid visas without applying for citizenship, that’s not a bad percentage.
They don’t have a comparative poll question for Christians to compare “Do you think of yourself as Christian first, or American first”, but my guess is that number is not even close to zero – and that the number responding “Christian first” is less than half the true total. (BTW, it’s 46% of Muslims that think of themselves as Muslim first, plus about 17% that put equal emphasis on each…)
If my math is good, only 8.7% of Muslims in the U.S. think suicide bombings are justified, and it’s mostly the younger African-American Muslim native-born citizens that are the more radical (aka dissatisfied with the USA); of those age 30+, only 6% think bombings are justified, and only 4% like al Qaeda.
And Muslims in America aren’t new, either: 28% of Muslim Americans are at least third generation.
Danny’s response below sums it up: Muslim Americans are just like other Americans – some good, some bad. You, on the other hand, are sounding like a prejudiced fuddy-duddy.
Per another Pew poll done shortly before the Muslim poll…
42% of Christian Americans view themselves as “Christian First”, 48% “Americans first”, with apparently only 10% as either “Did Not Answer” or “Both equally”.
Higher number than I thought – I’ll have to take back what I said about the real number being more than twice that reported.
That American First question is really kind of silly. If I believe in a God (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, whatever) wouldn’t it make sense that I would identify with my religous beliefs ahead of my national citizenship. Just because someone feels that they are a Christian First, doesn’t mean that they don’t love America and aren’t patriotic. I just means they prioritize their immortal soul over their government. Since Christianity has no basis for terrorism and overthrowing goverments, it’s really not a problem.
I’ve seen plenty of people using Christianity to justify injustice and violence.
And yes, I think the question is silly – no matter what the religion. But since parsing brought it up, I thought I’d point him to some numbers that showed that Muslim Americans aren’t out of line compared to other religions when answering it.
I might be a prejudiced fuddy-duddy, or I might have my eyes open.
Third generation is still pretty short term in the history of America.
The NPR story is a secondary report; the Pew Poll above is the original. Somehow NPR got 15% and 25% confused. This is still high, but again, it’s not like these are mostly young Arab Muslims who might have the most personal reasons to support bombings – it’s radical native-born Islam (i.e. Farrakhan or worse). Like the “Christians first” question, I don’t have a poll, but I suspect if you were to ask it, you’d get similar responses to insurgent acts by Christians in, say, China as you do about suicide bombers (which target “foreign infidels” from the radical Muslim viewpoint).
The poll doesn’t break down anything longer than third generation – sorry. I have relatives three generations back who are immigrants, including a great-aunt who has the most wonderful Irish accent. I suspect most of those third generation Muslim citizens have similar relationships to their past.
As to the history of Islam in the country, a Berber was among the Spanish Empire’s expeditionaries and was a primary explorer of New Mexico and Arizona; a colony of Moroccans was recognized in 1790 in South Carolina; and it is estimated that some 10-20% of the slaves brought into this country were Muslim. So while most Muslim Americans are recent, the country does in fact have a long history of Muslim citizenship.
Cuz some few dozen folks were Muslim long, long ago does not mean we have had a Muslim culture or influence here. And where did those East Africans selling their captives to the slave trade get Muslim slaves? If this happened to the degree mentioned, wouldn’t there have been threads of Muslim religion in the slaves? I’ve never heard of such a thing, yet many of the components of African religion are still around, especially in the Caribbean.
Yes, the NPR story is secondary, but that’s the quick summary. As to 25% or 15%, I think you need to supply a reference to that.
There have been incidences of Muslim NYC cabbies refusing to serve people with guide dogs or carrying alcohol. And then there are the Somalis in Greeley at the Swift plant. Yeah, real assimilation.
(The only Muslims I’ve known, one a Denver religious leader have been the middle aged kind. Fine people and very appreciative of being in America. The Pew research shows that, indeed, they have assimilated well and are great Americans. It is many of their kids and again their kids that seem to not appreciate America.)
It’s in plain text in the tables in the original Pew poll link! First thing I posted when I engaged on this thread.
As for history, you might try looking up History of Islam in the United States – Wikipedia has an entry with some nice cross-references.
Those poor Somalis – wanting to have their religious practices respected by getting breaks and a place to pray for prayer time. You get Sundays off, don’t you?
But that’s not the point.
The Somalis knew what the deal was before they took the jobs. Tails don’t wag dogs (sorry for the dog reference, Muslims.)
We’ve discussed this topic here before.
The pew link is right there in PR’s first post!
For god’s sake, parsing, you’re dealing with PR here. You should take more care when debating him because he always has his shit together.
I think parsing has gotten my point across quite nicely by now.
But to miss your link and say you didn’t post it? I expect better of him.
Hasan’s running for the Colorado House of Representatives, not the State Senate. Whereas Hasan might not have screwed this one up, CNN shit the bed, as usual.