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October 21, 2008 03:37 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 73 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.”

–Lao Tzu

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73 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread”

  1. To those who say, I voted Republican in 2000 and 2004, can also say, I f*** myself.

    Congratulations…it’s a difficult anatomical act I’m told. And for those who are voting the Repub ticket this year…..well, you provide the punch line.

    1. next to the picture of a stupid donkey (dumbass Democrat) is a picture of you, Sir Bravely Running Away.

      Did you ever notice that even the liberals on this site very rarely if ever respond to your ignorant comments?

      Why don’t you get the hint and just go away?

  2. Article over at Salon.com, which includes a quote from David Sirota:

    http://www.salon.com/news/feat…

    By the time Washington settles down to look at the election results next month, there may not be many more lines left for Lieberman to cross. Endorse the GOP nominee? Check. Blast Barack Obama at the Republican National Convention? Check. Defend embattled Republican incumbent Norm Coleman of Minnesota in one of the country’s most contested Senate races? Check. Yet, despite all that, top Senate Democrats like Harry Reid still aren’t willing to say they’ll kick Lieberman out of the caucus next year…

    What seems likely both to Lieberman’s defenders and his attackers is that he’ll lose the chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs…Keeping him in the post could be a real problem for an Obama administration; if Lieberman wanted to stir up trouble, he could launch investigation after investigation, with support from Republican members of the panel, even though the Democrats have big majorities in the House and Senate. “Lieberman is a lot of things, and one of the things he is is a media whore,” [David] Sirota said. “You combine his need for attention with his, I would say, pretty vitriolic anger towards Barack Obama, and you take those two things and empower him with the committee chairmanship whose major function is to investigate an administration, and you’ve got a pretty nasty brew there.”

    1. as Lieberman. Reid has done a horrible job and can’t seem to bring himself to admit that Lieberman has truly abandoned the Democratic Party.

      I truly loathe Harry Reid. I find him to be completely impotent in his position of power. Utterly worthless. If he doesn’t get rid of Lieberman after this election, perhaps it’s time for us to make some noise and get rid of Harry.

        2. so I’d go with Chris Dodd perhaps or Dick Durbin.

          Less seniority but equally impressive–Feingold, Clinton, Webb and Bernie Sanders come to mind.  

          1. Sanders being an independent (Democratic Socialist), he’s not likely to be in line for a caucus leadership post – ever.

            Clinton, yes. Feingold, maybe, though I don’t think the caucus would go for it.  Webb, too new I think.

            1. I think Feingold would be a brilliant pick but highly unlikely that they would let someone so progressive near the leadership position. I could see Dick Durbin or Dodd being a top pick.

              My personal favorite would be Bernie Sanders. Highly unlikely? Yes. But that wasn’t what Early Worm asked me so I gave my ultimate wish list. 🙂

          2. might not be around much longer.  Congress is going to have hearings on Fannie and Freddie…

            …

            …after the election of course because it’s such a pressing issue.

            Durbin is just like Reid.  You’re going to alienate a lot of independents with him running loose saying stuff like this:

            “If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings,” Durbin said. “Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.”

            Folks tend to remember stuff like that.  I know he apologized, but it should have ended his career.

            Hillary would be good.  She’s smart enough to know when not to be partisan, and is still polarizing enough that it would help the new Republican “contract with America” that I’m sure will be forthcoming in about 18 months.

            1. Was what he was saying basically untrue? Maybe exaggerated (the Nazis, Soviets, and Pol Pot were murderers after all) but what happened (and I hope is not still happening) at Gitmo was disgusting.

                1. they tortured.  I think that was Durbin’s point.  It’s ridiculous that one of our reports could sound like one of those descriptions.

                  I think he was absolutely right to say it and to bring attention to it.

            2. In fact, I applaud him for it. If the truth is so ugly to hear, then maybe this administration shouldn’t be engaging in such ugly, immoral, unethical, inhuman tactics.

              Dodd isn’t going anywhere. To suggest otherwise is delusional.  

              1. Took “special” loans from Countrywide, and presided over the Fannie and Freddie mess as he took more money from them than any other lawmaker.

                If the economy gets much worse, the public will be looking for blood (metaphoric blood).

                  1. But don’t you think you’re being a little too dismissive about it?  It certainly seems like a possibility when this economic mess is shaken out.

          4. and Dems with more seniority might be willing to accept HRC.  After all, most Americans have never heard of Reid, Pelosi, Dodd or Durbin.  With HRC they get a celebrity household name. She can bring plenty of attention to the Dem’s agenda which can translate into lots of public support and pressure. That will be helpful, even with Obama as President, if they can’t reach the magic 60.

              1. the GOP has spent 6 months rehabilitating her image amongst the electorate in order to create a wedge with Obama that reversing and attacking her will look self serving.

    2. Lieberman’s an independent now.  He’s been kicked out of the caucus lunch meetings already.  He’ll almost certainly lose his committee chairmanships this coming session.

      There’s not much more “out of the caucus” you can get, except to vote for Republican Senate leadership and actively move yourself into the Republican caucus.  As of 2009, Lieberman is a caucus of one.

      1. he removed himself from the lunch meetings.  There has been no “retaliation” from the caucus as yet. Were they to “kick him from the caucus”, the ‘pubs would pick him up and call for a reorganization with Cheney casting the deciding vote and Mitch McConnell becoming becoming majority leader.

        My guess is that the leadership is biding their time to see if his vote will be needed to break filibusters before they strip him of committee assignments.  If after the election the split is 60 dem / 40 rep then I would expect they won’t kick him to the curb.

        1. Sent out a video today asking people to donate to previously unthinkably competitive Senate races in the hopes of getting 60.

          He also had one House member, interestingly enough, one Betsy Markey.

        2. There is no reason to have him caucus because of cloture votes – those are individula votes and you won’t see every Dem voting to override each time. And in or out, Liberman will cast the same vote each time.

          I also think the worry of needing 60 Dem votes is over-blown, there are a number of moderate Republicans there and they will use the excuse of bi-partisanship to go along on the cloture override.

          ps – good riddance.

        3. After he attacked Obama’s character at the GOP convention, Reid uninvited him from the lunch meetings.  He hadn’t been attending anyway, but he is now officially unwelcome.

          And the Republicans can’t call for a re-organization this year – at least not and succeed.  The current session’s rules would require a 60-vote majority to change the leadership.  All committee chair positions and the senior leadership are in place until 2009.

          I agree with the Salon assessment; he’s been the very ineffective chair of the Senate committee on government oversight, and if he retains that seat he’ll be able to cause havoc with Obama’s administration, who he apparently dislikes.

          Joe will be at best a fringe hanger-on come January.

  3. In the end the Palin candidacy is a symptom and expression of a new vulgarization in American politics. It’s no good, not for conservatism and not for the country. And yes, it is a mark against John McCain, against his judgment and idealism.

    Palin has no idea what she doing or the negative effect she has had on America and on the American people.

    But we have seen Mrs. Palin on the national stage for seven weeks now, and there is little sign that she has the tools, the equipment, the knowledge or the philosophical grounding one hopes for, and expects, in a holder of high office. She is a person of great ambition, but the question remains: What is the purpose of the ambition? She wants to rise, but what for?

    In the past two weeks she has spent her time throwing out tinny lines to crowds she doesn’t, really, understand. This is not a leader, this is a follower, and she follows what she imagines is the base, which is in fact a vast and broken-hearted thing whose pain she cannot, actually, imagine. She could reinspire and reinspirit; she chooses merely to excite. She doesn’t seem to understand the implications of her own thoughts.

    I see no reason to to discuss Sarah Palin over the next two weeks.  Colin Powell and Peggy Noonan have given an  honest assesment of her and of John McCain’s judgement on picking her.  McCain aides were even saying that she was not his first pick – let the “distant-cing” begin. Even lipstick can’t help this Pitbull.

  4. “There’s no way around the map. It says the nation is in recession. The recession is coast to coast,” Zandi said. “Just a handful of states are expanding at this point. One of the unique features of this downturn is how broad-based it is, regionally.

    2. Maybe we are not in an admitted recession, but driving around Aurora I see a lot of empty offices and storefronts.  Driving around Denver it is even worse.  Many long term business have folded.  A telling sign is to drive Evans from Parker Road west to Sheridan.  There are many empty business buildings.  Terrible scene.  

      I just continue to hope that it gets no worse than it is right now.  The housing situation is defining more of our future because of the loss of value.

      1. …driving through Morrison,Evergreen and Kittredge this last weekend.  Lots of vacant buildings with for sale/for rent signs up in the windows.  

        We may not be in recession, but it is hard to see any expansion going on around here.

        1. The west slope is expanding and that is helping CO as a whole.  Will it be enough to keep CO out of the recession? Maybe it will only delay the effects here in CO.

          Without our natural resources we would be red on that map just like most other states.  Even with the resources, the boom/bust economy will catch up with us eventually.  

          State lawmakers need to plan ahead and be smart. Amend 59 starts us down that path, but there is much more to do.  The state Dems have a grand opportunity to show leadership with fiscally conservative policies this next year.  

      2. Our company sells worldwide and over half our sales are outside the U.S. So how Colorado does vs elsewhere is irrelevant for us. On the good news side, a lot of the world is still doing ok – and for companies that are hurting, we’re a much better alternative than our competitors and so that helps us.

        But still, scary times.

      3. Ask realtors and everybody who works on fixing up homes to sell and remodeling homes newly bought.   And plenty of restaurants ARE seeing a big decrease in business.  Not to mention retail and the kind of pricey services people can scratch off the list first when times get tough.  Glad we’re doing relatively well but for many, it’s still no picnic.

  5. I just got a letter from the national Right To Work committee. Addressed to me as a CEO. And you want to know something, not a word in the 6 pages of the letter about how Right To Work will help employees. Not a word about how it will let them make more money. Nothing for the workers – nada.

    It did talk a lot however about how Right To Work will help reduce employee costs.

    I’m starting to think that maybe Right To Work is designed to reduce pay for employees. Could Libertad have been lying to us???

    2. When they have to lie in the very text of the amendment and keep repeating that in their ads one should know something is up.  Their messaging also pushes freedom and choice.  What kind of freedom are they selling that would deny Coloradans their second union vote as created by the Colorado Labor Peace Act?  Sounds like more restrictions, less choices, less freedom.  Heck, even the nurse quoted in their ads, op eds, etc. hasn’t bothered to get a refund on fess she can get back as a non-union member.  Lazy enough to assert her rights, but not to put her name on a ghost written op ed.

      Vote No on Amendment 47.

    4. Why, he’s pro worker, he’s said it many times!  It’s like the Marxist theory of the withering away of the state. When you’ve smashed the last union and reduced the last worker to servitude, the good side of capitalism will come out, CEOs will limit their pay to no more than 10 times the average work force pay, health care will be given to all employees and, except for the occasional forced sex with the boss that women employees will be expected to perform to prove their loyalty, everything will be wonderful in the work place.    

  6. about 6 p.m. no lines, cruised through. They said they had a good turnout. Now, I can go home, turn off the television, and finish reading “Audacity of Hope.” Not a bad book, though Dreams From my Father is a far better read.

    But for me, at least, this election is over.

    I almost cried walking over to cast my first vote for an African American President thinking about two wonderful black friends of mine, Former Lt. Gov. George Brown and former state Rep. Arie Taylor, who didn’t live to see this day. It would have meant so much to them.

    For guys like Parsing and me, born and raised in a racist society, (I was born in 1945) it is simply amazing to have come this far.  Whatever happens Nov. 4, America has at last started to live up to the ideals of the Declaration of Independence that “All men are created equal.”

    1. That’s why it’s not as good. It has a lot of good, specific policy though.

      Dreams From My Father is a great book, IMO. It gave me a lot of insight into what it’s like for black people to be living in America. Changed my life, actually. It’s not just about race, though. There are universals about living your life through the eyes of a parent who may not have been around. I think everyone can relate to that.

      1. of my own experience with my father and my own role as a father and grand father.

        I also drew on it in writing the endorsement, in terms of mentioning the things you learn as a community organizer and why those things are as bad as Sarah Palin wants us to believe.

        But yes, it’s mostly about fathers and sons, and grandparents and trying to make our way in aworld that rarely makes sense.

        Yes, it’s a great book.

         Audacity, while not great, does have some usual insights on our current hyperpartisanship. Not original, maybe, but well organized.

        1. Dreams was a brilliant book, because it was written beore Obama became a politiacl figure, it is very revealing.  I feel I understand Obama better than any other politician, I didn’t personally know well.

          My own lens helped me relate to Obama.

          My parents were divorced when i was very young and I didn’t see my dad at all until I was much older (fortunately we have a good relationship today). together with the intermitent poverty, nd a familiy focused on education, I share this with Obama.

          My wife’s sister is African American (she ws adopted)and since she is divorced and her x lives in chicago I do a lot of the father duties for her son.  I see the confusion in others and can only imagine what it was like 40 years ago (being in Hawaii with its peculiar racial dynamics helped).  So I see Obama’s grandfather in myself.

          To some Obama is exotic–to me he is familiar.

          1. I relate to Obama, not because of race or family construct, but because as an army brat, I lived all over and had no place which felt like home.  I realize now in my old age, that in some ways I did exactly what Obama and McCain did….I chose a place to live; but it was my spouse’s home…and I took on all of those hometown attributes and family to make it mine.  Now, of course, I am blessed to live in  a house of many colors.

            I have lived in Colorado for fifty years. I still identify with the “outsider.”  

  7. after seeing it over at Square State

    There are some McCain supporters who are getting fed up with the stupidity, fear mongering and racism occurring on the fringe.

    h/t to sufimarie.

    1. Standing up to the hate mongers and sending their dumb asses home.  Those young Muslim and Christian Republicans who have had enough of the shit hold the future of their party in their hands.  Sometimes youth is so golden.

      1. There are always fringers, like the neo Nazis or LaRouchers, etc. that will embarrass any campaign for their own ends. Good to see the Rs stand up to these goons.

        1. Is that most of the R’s who stood up to the goons were the younger, more cosmopolitan, melting pot crowd.  

          Made me feel very good about the future – if these were the type of Republicans that were mostly in control the Democratic party would be in trouble.  Even if it means a tougher road to hoe for dems I hope they (meaning the more moderate wing) take back their party from the nutjobs.

    2. The young muslim man was supposed to have been on CNN today at some point, but at the last minute, the McCain campaign pulled the plug on the interview, no explanation.  More details at huffington post.

      1. felt that this video was staged.

        I’m more inclined to believe it was real. To me, it felt genuine, especially when the young woman says “You just changed my mind” in reference to her vote. I really felt the resentment she was feeling.

        Until I see some proof, I’ll take it at face value.

        1. Give me a break.  It’s that kind of nonsense response that undermines credibility.  If something isn’t what some fringe-ers want it to be, it MUST be a conspiracy of some sort.

          1. People wear their tin-foil hats on their sleeves…

            er… the sides of their heads, as it were.

            When it supports what you want to happen, it’s real. If it refutes what you want to happen, it’s a conspiracy.

    3. on the other side who still recognize that freedom of religion doesn’t just mean the right to be Baptist or Assembly of God, but it also means the right to be Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan, atheist or Christian etc. etc..

    1. the vice president shall preside over the Senate. That one Palin didn’t make up. Now if you want to spend the rest of the day blustering that there is a difference between presiding and being in charge of, be my guest.

       Is that really the best you can come up with to bash Palin?

      1. “The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.”

        Article I, Section III

        1. means he presides over the Senate!  Article I, Section III.

          He also can make critical rulings that set the stage for key issues: read “nuclear option” for a recent example.

          So, you made my point.

  10. This bodes well for the future of healthcare on the mainland..


    HONOLULU –  Hawaii is dropping the only state universal child health care program in the country just seven months after it launched.

    Gov. Linda Lingle’s administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program. A state official said families were dropping private coverage so their children would be eligible for the subsidized plan.

    “People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free,”

    said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. “I don’t believe that was the intent of the program.”

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