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October 16, 2008 03:03 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 100 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.”

–Otto von Bismarck

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100 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. all polls from 10/8-10/15 have Obama leading by 7.4%. This represents one of the highest margins of the campaign. My guess is that within 48 hours this will trend over 8%, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t go higher than that as a result of last nights clear win by Obama.

    All one had to do was turn off the sound to be turned off by McCain. His body language was very unpresidential. Obama, on the other hand, was composed, even gracious by any standard.

    I agree with those who declare the financial melt down the “October Surprise”. It hasn’t helped the country, the world, or McCain. It takes a steady and firm hand to steer the ship of state out of such rough waters, and I believe the voters see “No Drama Obama” as the best candidate to fill that position.

    As with many here, I expect to see important benefits flow to all Democratic candidates nationally. A filibuster proof Senate looks within reach. Hopefully, some one or some group can bring a laser like focus to accomplish this.

    1. Yep, that sounds like the Congress! 🙂

      Well, maybe with the benefit of a Democratic President, they’ll be able to actually pass some legislation.

      The amount, and scope, of the problems that are awaiting this incoming Congressional class are nothing short of impossible to solve. Immigration reform, education, health care, Iraq, Afghanistan, the GWOT, and countless others. All of those are going to have to take second-fiddle to getting us out of this economic mess.

      I hope that we can get the Republicans to work with the Democrats, because it’s going to be a long 4 years if Congress tries to operate like the way it did for the last 4-8.

      1. I hope that we can get the Republicans to work with the Democrats, because it’s going to be a long 4 years if Congress tries to operate like the way it did for the last 4-8.

        Not going to happen.  A Dem Congress with a single-digit popularity rating, and tough economic times that will likely continue of worsen over the first two years of an Obama Presidency.  Dem Congress will be very vulnerable and under attack from moment one.

        As they should be.  Reid and Pelosi have been awful.  Congress has done nothing.  Nothing.

        1. After the last two years of a filibuster-everything Senate minority and a veto-everything President, any Democrat who tries to bring a Republican over is going to end up looking pretty stupid.

          Although with Joe Biden presiding over the Senate, that “nuclear option” is going to look pretty good. I wonder how Republicans will feel about it.

        3. Without the Bush presidential veto over anything the Democratic congress passes, the track will finally be clear for some honest change in this country.

          And if the Dems get 60 seats in the Senate – not likely, but possible – hopefully we can roll back these anti-middle class laws and policies of Reagan and his ilk.  And maybe regain some of our civil rights.  

            1. Warrantless wiretaps, “Sneak ‘n Peak” warrants, the bad boys lists of persons of interest at the airport, the demeaning airport frisks, every flippin’ transaction has been made harder because of “security,” etc.

              I know you probably think all that is fine, but I don’t.  

                1. we have many more options and much safer solutions.

                  Just because some people don’t want to federaly fund your need for partial birth abortion on demand doesn’t mean you have lost any right.

                    1. Woman’s health care has achieved much in the last 30 years, but still has miles to go.

                      Just think, you’re no longer given the same prescription as men adjusted to size.

                1. I can’t fly from Portland to Denver without the government going into my suitcase without me present! How’s that? Sounds liuke the Soviet Union I grew up hearing called the Red Menace.

  3. Article in the New York Times about the upcoming release of the film Milk, starring Sean Penn as the late San Francisco city supervisor.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10…

    In one more twist this month’s premiere, a benefit for various gay and lesbian youth groups, will open with a screening at the Castro Theater, near the site of Mr. Milk’s old camera shop, and will end with dinner and dancing at City Hall, where he died.

    The moral in all of it, Mr. Van Sant said, is ultimately political. “It’s an illustration of pretty extreme grass-roots politics,” he said of his film’s message, “that you can do it.”

    But others are hoping that he has found the beating heart in Mr. Milk.

    “He wasn’t Mother Teresa,” Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco supervisor who appears in the movie, said of Mr. Milk. “He just connected with people, one by one.”

    1. I grew tired of hitting your website link, finding something that was easily refutable with a little bit of fact checking, and then posting a response here, only to have you post some sort of new drivel the next day.

      Take care.  

        1. As for us Dems, the more you Repubs focus on tired old attacks and petty gotchas, the better the polls look for our guys. Just look at the polls after last night’s “best” McCain performance.

            1. …you just think that JC Watts and/or little Ricky Santorum are the greatest things since sliced bread because you’re a liberal at heart.

              Not only are you a Republican, you’re way out on the fringe, my friend.  McCain just too liberal for your views.    

    1. Last night, our drinking game phrase was “Joe the Plumber.” Not good for our health.

      Who really cares what a registered Republican thinks? Yeah, I guess Barack Obama just can’t seem to connect with fame-seeking Republicans. Shocker of the week.

        1. Governments collect taxes, then spend the money. Some people benefit from this, others don’t. Presidents propose budgets, and therefore what they plan to spend on is important. As is how they plan to collect money to pay for it.

          If you want to call that socialism or communism or liberal fascism or whatever, well then you’re probably a registered Republican who’s going to vote for John McCain anyway. Which is fine, but there’s no good reason for Barack Obama to care what you think.

          1. very balanced in his discussion with Sen. Obama.

            And you’re wrong, Senator Obama should be able to explain his reasons for doing things to everyone in the country – even the ones that disagree with him.

            I take issue with Obama’s characterization of his potential job as apparently being responsible for ‘spreading wealth’.

            His words, not mine.

            You know, if this thing gets close and Obama happens to lose, it will be the greatest “burn” in political history.  

            Even though I might vote for him (don’t tell) I’d still get a lot of pleasure out of some his more idiotic fans (present company certainly excluded) having to reconcile what they’ll do without the rivers of chocolate and spontaneously blooming flowers that will be absent if he loses.

            1. This guy Joe seems like an egomaniac. In his first interview, he seemed to think he was entitled to have both campaigns groveling before him for approval (despite already planning to vote for McCain). He reminds me of a New Hampshire voter.

              Obama made an effort to explain things to this guy; that’s the only reason he’s in the news. The guy didn’t agree with or like his explanation. Fine, what do you expect Republican attention-seekers to do?

              As for “balanced,” no, calling someone you disagree with a “socialist” is no more balanced than calling McCain a “fascist.” I disagree vehemently with McCain, I think he’s got some really stupid ideas, and I think he’s far more to the right than I or anyone else wants in the country. But he’s no fascist.

              As for his detailed question, as I recall it was basically, “Waah, waah, why do I, Joe the Plumber, have to pay taxes just because I’m a plumber who’s named Joe?”  

              1. according to the Toledo Blade

                1. Joe hates regulation–Joe is not a liscenced plumber

                2. Joe hates new taxes…as well as old–he has a tax lien against him

              2. It’s much more accurate referring to someone who gets busted saying he wants to ‘spread wealth around’ as a socialist than it would be calling McCain a fascist.

                Wow – look at the ad hominem attacks coming after a working guy that asked why he should be taxed more for being successful, a very valid question.

                1. If you want to discuss taxes, we could do that. You didn’t.

                  You said, “Look how cool this plumber guy is.” So we said, “He’s actually not.”

                  Which is a huge waste of time, since there are over 300 million other people who all have issues as or more important than whether one guy’s taxes might someday get raised.

                  1. That’s the most important for a lot of folks.

                    Maybe not you, but you probably don’t earn enough money to pay taxes by sitting at the Che Guevara coffee house in Boulder smoking foreign cigarettes and practicing for the weekly McChimpyBushHitler poetry slam every Wednesday night while working on your novel about the evils of American Imperialism set to a love story about a young med student/philosopher trying to win the heart of an heiress who’s just realized that her fortune was made on the BACKS OF WORKING PEOPLE!!!

                    I sure hope you think that was at least mildly funny, and that you realize I was joking.

            2. What he is talking about is that those that can afford to contribute more, should pay more in taxes. It shares the wealth in that the rich contribute more to a system that helps all do better.

              I think we should take pride in an approach like that.

        1. He is registered. And he’s not a plant.

          AN actual detailed tax question somehow got through Sen. Obama’s gauntlet of handlers.  

          The horror!

          1. …because why?

            Two readers with access to the Ohio voter file say that Joe Wurzelbacher’s inluence on this cycle will be limited in one way: He doesn’t appear to be registered to vote.

            –Politico

            Then there’s this from his interview with Couric, straight from the plumber’s crack…

            He also says he actually isn’t in the bracket where Obama would raise his taxes — but he’s worried that Obama will shift the bracket down.

            He also said that, in his encounter with Obama, the Illinois Senator [has] “a tap dance…almost as good as Sammy Davis, Jr.”

             

        2. Just assumes Obama isn’t being honest and will raise taxes on income bellow that amount.  Also something about Obama dancing faster than Sammy Davie Jr. so if he CAN vote he probably never was undecided in the first place.  

          The Joe the Plumber thing was also a complete flop with all the undecided focus groups on various channels.  Maybe because  so many of us have been so thoroughly screwed by plumbers and are especially unsympathetic to plumbers who are portrayed as making over a quarter million.

          We’ve stopped recommending any plumbers to our clients because every single one we’ve ever used has charged us a reasonable sum, knowing we have clients who ask us for recommendations for plumbers, electricians and such, then turned around and outrageously over-charged our admittedly well heeled clients.  

          We just had to give up and tell people we really had no clue who was reasonable and reliable. With plumbers, you’re on your own.  They know it’s usually an emergency so you don’t have much desire to shop around and they don’t care much about repeat business.  There is a never ending supply of new plumbing disasters.  

          And if you are making a quarter million and have to pay a thousand or two more in taxes, that really isn’t going to prevent your hiring more workers. What workers were going to  be paid  only a thousand or two a year anyway?   In fact, what workers aren’t going to earn your business much more than that in a year?  Crying hardship over such a sum is a little over the top.

              1. dont want to pay taxes, hire your spouse, put the spouses Volvo on the company lease as a service vehicle, issue the spouse a company amex, pay for your trip to hawaii via company funds as a business development tour of the south pacific, etc…

      1. Amendment 47 would do away with compulsory union fees for workers covered by collective bargaining contracts. The current state law requires that at least 75 percent of workers vote to establish such “all-union” agreements.

          1. from contributing their non forced union dues to the local.

            You really are a scumbag for your promotion of this anti-worker policy. The employer asked the union to come in, not they want to escape the costs of managing their HR overhead.

            You’re a double talker on these issues Ewegen, you have them backwards. The people should be protected first with rights (47 and 54).

    1. fried chicken

      ribs

      watermelon

      Where is the crack?

      Has McCain denounced this since he denouces all the bad things his supporters seem to say–snark

      1. i believe he is half white, eighth arab, and three-eighths kenyan-luo.

        The small minds will continue to grind out this hateful Obama material for the next 5-9 years.

        1. their parents were caribean immigrants and their ancestors were not part of the american slave experience.

          Both are scoff at the “black enough” “not really black” critique

          1. …to be the victim of anti-black racism.  The racists had no difficulty in identifying him as black.  Or, I should say, most of the racists didn’t.

    2. Obama’s comment about ‘not looking like the other Presidents on the dollar bills’ was dumb, but don’t illustrate that by proving his point and being a racist.

      Sheesh.

      1. DOESN’T look like the presidents on dollar bills and to say so isn’t playing the race card anymore than it would have been playing the gender card for HRC to say that SHE doesn’t look like them either. What’s dumb would be to pretend otherwise a la Stephen Colbert’s clueless Colbert Report persona.    

    3. …imaagine that.  No don’t, because then you’re imagination would accused of race-baiting.  

      Add the California GOP to the pile of evidence, peeps.

    2. Biden has those droopy eyelids and my late stepdad’s got so droopy in his older years he had to have them lifted a bit because they were interfering with his range of vision.  He had absolutely no interest in anything cosmetic. Clearly Biden’s had something done but his eyelids are still pretty droopy when his face is relaxed so maybe it wasn’t strictly cosmetic. Or maybe it was and just didn’t turn out so hot.  

      1. Not that it has anything to do with anything, but look at the guy’s freaking forehead!?!?!

        He looks like Chevy Chase and Aykroyd when they got out of the Sim in “Spies Like Us”.

        1. Only babies have foreheads as smooth as Joe’s looks these days without botox.  Not that it has anything to do with anything, as you say, LB.  There are worse sins than a little vanity.   Palin’s penchant for encouraging vile hate speech and tolerating a lynch mob mentality, for instance.

          1. I hope you were kidding with this:

            Palin’s penchant for encouraging vile hate speech and tolerating a lynch mob mentality, for instance.

            Show me how she’s done this.

            1. True, only uninformed ignorant people would pull into that and go on to the “Kill Him” chant, which by the way happened today at a McCain rally.  Palin McCain advisors knew what they were doing when they put out that Barack Obama was hanging around with terroist, and they did not care they may have increased the threats to the whole Obama family including their little girls.

              In a time of war with terrorist, is this really Presidential.  Hell, your team was pissed off at lipstick on pig – and yes, Palin’s behavior to me is pig like!

              Palin and McCain can kiss my Black Ass!

              1. It doesn’t look like it happened.

                According to the Times Leader, the Secret Service investigated the allegations on Wednesday after hearing the reports, but was unable to find anyone who could corroborate the story other than the reporter.

                Sorry, but Bill Ayers was a terrorist at one point, and he and Sen. Obama are friends.

                I think you’re overreacting.  DO you have a link for the McCain rally today?

            2. I hope YOU’RE kidding, LB.  If nothing else you must be kidding yourself.  I don’t believe you’re really that stupid.  There are any number of videos available, videos that have already been show on TV over and over showing exactly how she’s done this. No need for me to waste my time.  

                1. Palin has ignited this – be clear here, LB.  Telling stupid Americans that a Black man is hanging out with terrorists is sure to incite more hatred.

                  Why are you even defending this?  You should be saying, yes, this was clearly wrong.  And besides, it is not working, it is backfiring.

                  Dave Letterman nailed McCain last night with it.  Then called him out on his relationship with G. Gordon Liddy.  McCain was ready to lie, they went to commercial and when they came back he admitted his “friendship” citing, Liddy, paid his dept to society.  Dave fired back with didn’t Ayers do so as well?

                  LB, ugly is ugly.  Don’t lose your morals and color this anything else but ugly. Everyone is seeing the ugly and you are defending it – please stop, it is not helping America deal with their race issues.

                  1. She just didn’t.  Ever.

                    Obama’s association with someone who led a group that committed bombings against the US Government is a very valid campaign issue.

                    I hope you were more upset by Wright’s actual racist behavior than you were by anything you imagine Palin might have said.

                    I’ve said it before, and I’ll reiterate for you:

                    I’m more likely to vote for a black candidate.  But every time I’m feeling better about Obama he goes and says something like ‘spread the wealth around’ that goes against my core beliefs.

                    My opinion is that the majority of racial politics have been inserted into this campaign by Obama’s machine.  And it wasn’t necessary – I think if his folks had avoided defending some valid questions by crying racism, it would have further marginalized the actual racists who deserve to be ousted from the process.

                    I’d love to meet you sometime.  I think if you knew who I was and what I did, you’d understand why I feel the way I do, and that you’d give my opinion on this more credence in this arena because of it.

                    Maybe sometime I’ll stop by the bar and have a diet coke.

                    1. I don’t think she has to say Black.  I think by putting out hate filled speech it adds to what some Americans already feel about Black America.

                      Some terrorist look like Black people.  They are not, but Arab, Middle Eastern and bi-racial Americans look very similar.

                      LB, you seem to be intelligent, please remember that most Americans comprehend on the 8th grade level.  There is a reason People Magazine and the Enquire are Americas most read pubs.

                      People yelling “Kill Him” and “Terrorist” are not part of the “informed” population.  You are arguing on what you believe about America.  Clearly, you are not someone who would yell “kill him” at a rally.

                      There is a responsibility that intelligent people have not to be the spark that burns down America’s best hope for the future. Palin and McCain have started this hatred. And it is even uglier that smart people are using stupid people to do their bidding.

                    2. Apparently nobody yelled “kill him” at a rally.

                      I don’t think she has to say Black.  I think by putting out hate filled speech it adds to what some Americans already feel about Black America.

                      What is hate-filled?  That Obama “palled around with terrorists?”

                      Well, he did.  Ayers is an admitted (and unrepentant, though seemingly somewhat reformed) terrorist, and Obama appears to have had a very friendly relationship with him.  Now, in normal conversation it doesn’t come up like that.  But in an election, it will.  Just as McCain infuriated most Republicans and is now being tied at the hip to their policies.  Not totally untrue, just exxagerated.

                      Also, again – she simply never said anything about race.  You don’t get to infer a “code” when an actual slur doesn’t exist.  It’s not believable.  

                      Not everyone that’s pro-life and hunts is a racist.  Just as everyone who drives an Escalade with $4000 rims and plays hip hop isn’t a gang member.  

                      Racial transcendence is a two-way street.

  10. after topping at 4.63 last week they have been drifting down.  It was 4.07 at the close today.

    This is still the higher than at any time in history other than the last month.

    This is the key number to watch as far as the credit crisis goes.

    Needs to get down to 2.00 before I breathe easy. Normal is 0.20-.050.  I think the new normal will be .075-1.00 for a while, but we are years away from that.

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