Gaffe Boy vs. The Mooseinator Open Thread

What are you nervous about?

233 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. themonk77 says:

    I am really hoping for a whole night of gaffes, misspeaks, and just hysterical political comedy.  I’m getting tired of all the doomsday rhetoric.

  2. redstateblues says:

    the possibility that hitting Palin hard on her record will be perceived as “beating up” on her…

    …Which would be severely ironic considering Sen. Biden wrote the Violence Against Women Act.  

  3. Gilpin Guy says:

    The country is broke and owes ten TRILLION dollars to creditors around the world.  Biden needs to step up and say the obvious about the state of our economy.  The rescue plan is iffy and we need to start curtailing our commitments around the world to bring our finances back in order.

    Talk about the Republican disgrace of borrowing records amounts of money while giving away tax cuts to the rich.

    • Laughing Boy says:

      Respectfully, do you think the “tax breaks for the rich” is more of a talking point than a fact?  You can almost wipe out the bottom 50% of taxpayers as a viable source of tax income, right.  Any tax break will favor ‘the rich’ because the poor don’t pay taxes, right?

      • Arvadonian says:

        the “poor” do pay taxes.  They pay payroll taxes (FICA, Medicare/Medicaid) on 100% of their income, which the rich (by McCain’s definiation of anyone earning $250k or more) only pay on 40% or less of their income; the poor also pay sales taxes on a higher percentage of their income than do the rich because those living paycheck-to-paycheck, pay sales tax on 100% of their income where as the wealthy can stash some of their cash away.

        • d'Anconia says:

          if, as you state, someone is spending in such a manner that they “…pay sales tax on 100% of their income…”. Obviously, they must be spending 100% of their income on retail purchases (subject to sales tax)and 0% on staple groceries, 0% for housing,0% for medical and dental care, etc. since none of theses categories are subject to sales tax.

          But, it does make a nice soundbite for attempts at class warfare…

          • Arvadonian says:

            expempt food and medical care (including over-the-counter drugs) from sales taxes.

            It isn’t class warfare to point out that the wealthy and their allies in congress have been launching attacks on the middle class since the 1980’s.

          • parsingreality says:

            was predicated on class warfare, as you call it.  From before WWI through the 1960’s it was perfectly OK to point out the differences in perks and obligations between our economic classes.

            The current class warfare is by the privileged to limit their societal obligations.  And they started this push back with Reagan and made “class warfare” a perjorative instead of a good thing.  

            And then they suck in numerous middle class people to side with them! Sucka!

      • Gilpin Guy says:

        My understanding of the Bush tax cuts were that they primarily benefited the top of the pile.

        What I want to see Biden point out is that the narrative that Republicans can govern with out taxes is a hoax because they substitute tax revenue with debt.  Raising taxes is bad according to Republican philosophy but borrowing money with the associated interest isn’t.  What a crazy fraud has been perpetrated on our country in order to win votes.

        I want to see a discussion of how we reduce our 10 trillion dollar debt.  If they want to lead this country then let them discuss how to lead us out of this debt.  I hate the idea that we are going to end up cutting all government functions except debt servicing and the military.  

  4. Arvadonian says:

    that Palin is going to bomb on simple questions and Republicans are going to blame a fine reporter, Gwen Ifill (they’ve already started this).

  5. sxp151 says:

    no matter what, because they’re fucking morons. They literally don’t know anything about issues, and they don’t care because they don’t think that stuff is cool. So they glaze over at substantive discussions, they never notice real gaffes like McCain’s “veto all spending bills” (unless a campaign points them out), and the only way you can get them to notice anything is to say something nasty or repeat yourself six times (like McCain did in the last debate).

    Palin’s utter cluelessness means she’s going to be a perfect debater for this audience of pundit twits, since all she knows is style, and coincidentally that’s all they care about.

  6. Middle of the Road says:

    before the 2nd question wraps up. I intend to take a sip every time she says something stupid but that may prove to backfire and lead to the mother of all hangovers tomorrow.

  7. Stagarite says:

    “That’s a thoughtful question, Gwen. I cede my time to the governor of the great state of Alaska.”

  8. Jambalaya says: never what’ll come out of his mouth.

  9. divad says:

    …and guess Caribou Barbie will be wearing her hair down tonight in an attempt to a) look more “girly” and b) hide the receiver shoved into her ear.

  10. dwyer says:

    I am not ready to write the lady off….

    • dwyer says:

      Katy Couric got hustled…Olberman fell for it…..she is holding her own….twenty minutes into the debate…

      You can disagree with what she is saying…but it is obvious that the media interviews were set ups….she played Gibson and Couric for fools…and tricked the msm….

      • bob ewegen says:

        She just learned fromthe miscues with Gibson and Couric.  She’s no fool but neither is she a master of manipulation.

        The result is, however, exactly as you said.

        Low expectations plus a mediocre performance results in a “Palin didn’t screw up big time” story.

        • dwyer says:

          I think that, in retrospect in the interview with Couric, she was deliberately  a self parody. I think it was a set up…later in the debate, Palin said that she wanted to talk directly to the American people without the “filter” of the msm….implying, of course, that Couric had been a  “filter.”

          I am weary of the trick n treat aspect of the McCain strategy.

          I think the country is in incredible trouble and I think that the steady, deliberate approach of Obama is what is needed…but I will not underestimate McCain, Palin, or the determination of the Republicans to maintain power…

          I thought that Biden was very, very, good. However, the attention was all on Palin.

  11. bob ewegen says:

    and she’ll blow biden out of the water.  After McCain’s inaugural, Tina will be named minister of Culture.

  12. Roger D says:

    Biden can just make his points about the failed Bush/McCain policies and let Sarah be Sarah.  When she is incapable of answering a question in a straight-forward manner, the chips will fall where they may.

  13. colojason says:

    Anyone else notice Palin’s Alaska pin is located above her US flag pin?

    I’m taking a shot every time I hear the word “betcha”.

  14. parsingreality says:

    Damn, right outta the chute and she violates protocol.  

    I’m sure you CAN, honey, but you MAY not!

    And it was about 8 minutes into the debate when the first “maverick” was inserted.  

  15. parsingreality says:

    But probably an improvement over Bush’s.  

    • Laughing Boy says:

      I’m shocked that Biden doesn’t have better comebacks than he does.  He has always struck me as someone who thinks well on his feet but he’s just not agile, and it shouldn’t be that hard.

      He also sounded like he was weaseling on the rope line coal answer.

      They both seem nervous.  Weird.

      • Ralphie says:

        She’s kicking his ass.  Because in typical Democratic fashion, instead of calling her the lying scum that she is, he’s trying to be politically correct.

        • BlueCat says:

          that most thought Palin did pretty well.  No big gaffes from Biden and Palin was coherent if light on content.  

          Good to see that Biden was recognized as being far more knowledgeable but since all Palin had to do was exceed expectations and all Biden had to do was not supply a big fat gaffe or appear mean and condescending, they both did fine.  

          Not a game changer and that’s good for Obama/Biden since their numbers are headed in the right direction. Not a disaster for Palin so MCain/Palin might quit sliding for a while.  After all that hype, that’s about it. For now.  

        • Sir Robin says:

          It’s sad….that being a good human being is so incorrectly labled, denigrated and dehumanized.

      • Precinct854 says:

        My opinion of the VP debates is there is a little to lose and nothing to win. Even the world’s best performance here wouldn’t win more than an anemic handful of votes. But a candidate can blow a good number for the big guy.

        I’m sure I would be nervous despite all the best preparation if I was in a fight with no real upside.


    • Canines says:

      It doesn’t rise and fall like its previous arctic peaks and valleys.

      Calls to mind My Fair Lady: her coaches saying, “Repeat after us, Sarah, ‘The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain!‘”

      • dwyer says:

        The diction did not “rise and fall” when she debated during the Alaska governor’s race. She was articulate and knowledgeable about Alaska….just like she was last night.

        She played “he haw” for the east coast MSM because she rightly figured out that they would not pick up on it…

        • Canines says:

          I never heard her debate during the Alaska governor’s race, so I wouldn’t know.

          However, her cadence did rise and fall during her acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention — much more so than it did during the debate last night.

  16. Laughing Boy says:

    Sorry, Sarah.  But it’s idiotic.

  17. Laughing Boy says:

    Why post a caricature of Palin and a real photo of Biden?

    It’s your blog (until the Truth Squad comes after you in an Obama admin.), but sheesh.

  18. parsingreality says:

    At fifty minutes.

    Boy, she sure has a lot of cliches and gloss overs.

  19. Laughing Boy says:

    patronizing references to the moderator are cheesy.  “As you well know, Gwen…”.

    Not as bad as mispronouncing nuclear, but close.

    Biden’s a likeable guy, but she’s done pretty well against him.  The Afghanistan thing was big, too.

  20. MileHighDaredevil says:

    They both are not answering the questions. But Palin does it so badly!

    Biden should call her on her gaffes. He is being too polite and is not relaxed. She is just concentrating on her notes and talking points.

  21. parsingreality says:

    She’s a genius, I tell ya.

    Get it?  “Ya.”  

    Joe Biden is presidential. He speaks well, has a grasp of nuance that escapes Palin.

    Sarah Palin is mayoral.  Of a 6,000 person village.

    “Can I call ya Vlad?”  

  22. MileHighDaredevil says:

    I learned that in Texas. My Pennsylvania mother tried to correct me. I don’t give a damn. Now, “Eyerack” is a different matter. You becha.

  23. Precinct854 says:

    That was smart. A plug for passing legislation in her home state on divestment from Sudan is pretty good tactics. It will probably light a fire under Alaskan legislators and it probably plays well with viewers at home.

  24. parsingreality says:

    Mavericks: 3

    Substance: 0

  25. Laughing Boy says:

    Biden’s ever bought anything in a Home Depot?

    His neighborhood?  He’s been in Congress since Nixon was in the White House.  I’m not sure why he’s trying to compete with her on the ‘regular person’ thing.  He can’t.  It looks and sounds as believable as Kerry with a shotgun.  

    • bob ewegen says:

      Gave my best friend power tools. He loves me.

    • Precinct854 says:

      He seems like the sort of guy who’d do some of his own repairs. He seems like a blue collar guy gone to congress. Very Mr. Smith Goes to Washington is my impression. Just talking impressions, no idea about the substance except that I know he’s one of the least wealthy of the Senators.  

      • Laughing Boy says:

        Didn’t stay in Washington for a lifetime.  It’s an act.  

        Biden’s a likeable guy, but the quintessential Washington insider.

        • Precinct854 says:

          Might be part of why he’s a Washington insider. Just saying.

          And why wouldn’t Mr. Smith stay in Washington for a lifetime? My memory is fuzzy, but didn’t he win in the end? Wouldn’t he stay to fight on for other causes? Does right go home to the farm or does it stay in Washington like John Quincy Adams did to fight the good fight?

        • Half Glass Full says:

          He goes home to Delaware constantly, and his neighbors and the folks whose stores he shops at know him well. His house is his only asset.

          Palin and her husband are worth a million dollars. Of course, that’s just one of McCain’s smaller houses – or maybe a couple of his most expensive dozen automobiles.

          But let’s get off the mooseburgers and Home Depot and arugula and houses stuff. It’s all window dressing. Who will be the better stewards for America in the coming years?

          Obama and Biden – not even close!

    • Ranger77 says:

      I lived in Delaware off and on for several years.  Yup, you do see him around town doing “normal” kinds of things.  We used to see him in a small resturant over by Trolley Square with the kids.

  26. Danny the Red (hair) says:

    she just strings together buzz words in nonsense.

  27. colojason says:

    Biden hit a home run on the question about the VP’s role.  Wow.

  28. Taxosaurus says:

    Because I’m a man … sob story


    so weak.

  29. Laughing Boy says:

    Time for Biden’s “Maverick” speech.  

  30. bob ewegen says:

    for tearing up.

    You girls gotta tough it out.

    Ain’t the new rules grand?

  31. Laughing Boy says:

    Did a fantastic job.  Anyone that complains about a partisan moderator in this case is a big pussy.

  32. Danny the Red (hair) says:

    Joe “won”

    But it will play as a tie, which isn’t enough.

    • ClubTwitty says:

      favored Biden throughout the debate.  Palin didn’t self-destruct, but she did nothing to turn the momentum back in McCain’s favor, so I think Obama’s climb continued.

      • Canines says:

        Palin won by not losing; Biden won by winning. It’s a win/win situation!

        Which doesn’t much effect the cost of moose meat in Alaska or Taylor Ham in New Jersey: Obama’s still ahead, in the grand scheme of things, as a result.

      • Precinct854 says:

        No one can win a VP debate. There is just not making your running mate look bad. It would be hard to force a VP to make his or her running mate look bad. So it was all on Biden and Palin to not screw up badly. Biden did a better job of that, but it doesn’t matter in this situation.

        The VP debate is like a pass/fail class. It doesn’t matter how much you pass by as long as you pass.

    • BlueCat says:

      It’s just the VP debate.  The whole goal was for him not to make news with a colorful gaffe and for her not to look like a complete moron.  Mission accomplished.  Obama still up and McCain still down in the polls. No real change.  No real loser.

  33. DavidThi808 says:

    was when Joe Biden was talking about being a single parent and understanding that himself. It looked like he was about to cry because of what he had been through and how well he understood.

    I think that was the most powerful moment in the debate and reflects well on Biden.

    • themonk77 says:

      Having once met the man and seen him speak, he is still very emotional when it comes to his family.  Its a great thing to see a man that really does care, a lot.  His care for his family, particularly his sons is something that is special.

      • DavidThi808 says:

        Is that every time when the wives some up on stage he and his wife immediately hug. And they then always either have their arms around each other, or at least hold hands. It clearly is natural for them, to always be touching.

        Barack & Michelle Obama are that way too, not to quite the degree as the Bidens but they also clearly are used to that level of affection.

        I realize that this has nothing to do with how good of an administration they would be. Clinton humped everything in sight yet was a good president. But still, I like it.

      • sxp151 says:

        but among me and my cynical friends, our first thought was that it looked really fake and scripted. He recovered really quickly.

        I’m sure he does still tear up over it (it’s the crappiest thing I can imagine happening to anyone), but he kind of brought it up out of nowhere, it seemed. So it looked a little manipulative.

        • DavidThi808 says:

          Sarah Palin had just said that only she understood what it was like to bring up the kids and juggle all the responsibilities. Biden got pissed and that’s why you say the real Joe Biden – raw.

          • sxp151 says:

            We were talking over some of the debate, so I don’t remember much of that answer (I think she said something about being a mom, like regular people). Be nice to see the longer version with her previous answer.

            • redstateblues says:

              But after I thought about it, I think that years and years of public speaking have given him the ability to recover from something more quickly than the average Joe–so to speak.

    • Half Glass Full says:

      Taxosaurus thinks that someone who still has emotion about his dead wife and children is a wimp.


  34. Danny the Red (hair) says:

    “are we going to have to start calling answers to questions that have nothing to do with the question pulling a Palin?”

    “What do you think of student testing and failing schools?”

    “Blue, my favorite color is blue”

  35. DavidThi808 says:

    The biggest thing everyone was looking for was would Sarah Palin fall flat on her face. And she didn’t. So she came across as acceptable as a VP to enough people that McCain/Palin remains possible.

    Between her prep, the debate format, and the fact that Palin is a very talented candidate, that was a likely outcome. All of us Dems hoped she would crash & burn but this was the likely outcome.

    So point 1 – McCain/Palin is still alive.

    The second thing everyone was looking for was could Biden debate agressively without being viewed as beating up the girl or being patronizing or… And he nailed that perfectly. What he did was tear in to the ideas she brought up, and started by labeling them McCain’s ideas. So he was very agressive beating up McCain.

    So point 2 – Biden was able to be agressive with no issues due to his opponent being female.

    The third thing is races aren’t won in the VP debate, but they can be lost. So they key issue for each is to do no harm to their campaign. And no harm was done. There were hits on each other but a week from now this debate is unlikely to have any real impact on the race.

    How did they do? Biden I think did very well. He came across as knowledgable, competent, and there as the team that can address all of these issues – and tried to do so in the past.

    I also think his part about being a single parent did come from the heart and was incredibly powerful. I think that is the one specific part of the debate people will remember. I’d give him a A-.

    Palin came across as someone who was out of her depth at times and always returned to a couple of themes she was comfortable with. About every third question she ended up on some totally unrelated topic in her answer. And she kept reusing the maverick/just folks lines to the point that they got tired. Her high points was having a topic she was comfortable answering.

    But she did do a competent job both attacking and selling that the answer to 8 years of Republican incompetence was 4 more years of Republican administration. (Interesting how rarely the word Republican or Democratic was used – by either.) And she did say Bush made major mistakes, which the base will let her do and the middle will appreciate. I give her a C.

    How does this change the campaign? The Republicans can relax a bit and concentrate on other items now that this is over. So they’re a bit better off now. But no significant change in how the race is going.

    Tomorrow we’re back to Obama vs McCain and Obama continuing his climb in the polls.

    • parsingreality says:

      This JUST in! 🙂

      On CNN, their focus group said 64? percent thought Biden did better than expected and Palin 84%.  Which shows you what they really thought of Palin before tonight.

      Not ready for prime time.  

      • ClubTwitty says:

        Biden won by about 2:1

        Watch Obama’s polls keep climbing over the weekend, up by 3 more in national tracking by Tuesday.

        • Go Blue says:

          Those numbers aren’t going to get much better and when you corner a rabid animal like McCain they instinctively attack. McCain’s jumpiing out of Michigan and will engage in the worst politics we’ve ever seen in states like Virginia, Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Get ready to fight back.

    • Half Glass Full says:

      She gets a better grade just because she didn’t come across as the total cretin she looked like when Couric was asking her questions.

      Definitely not presidential material, of course. Not even trainable. But was able to speak for about 45 minutes without totally falling on her face.

  36. parsingreality says:

    I bet a lot less.  

    We all tend to like attractive people.

  37. Half Glass Full says:

    That the photo at the top of this post is of Tina Fey and not Sarah Palin…

  38. DavidThi808 says:

    I think this comes more from being an Alaska politician than a Republican. She was constantly talking about both lowering taxes and providing more government services. They can do that in Alaska because they have the oil companies as their trust fund. But it doesn’t work in the rest of the country.

    But it is what people want to hear – they want their taxes to go down and get more services.

    • Gilpin Guy says:

      We are ten trillion dollars in debt and neither candidate would acknowledge that the debt won’t go away with tax cuts.  Our economy is wrecked and we are spending at least ten billion a month on empire.

      Biden made passing reference to the deficit but he could have put the hammer down on Republicans and borrowing.  Every Republican president has increased borrowing and the size of government since Reagan.  Every one has campaign on less government and turned around and borrowed to the max to finance their Star Wars fantasies and occupations.

      Who pray tell is going to pay the bill?  Our children?  Our grandchildren?  I am sick of this constant harping about avoiding paying taxes like it is some kind of fatal disease.  Somebody is going to have to sacrifice and either pay more taxes or accept less services.  Neither candidate in my mind was forthright about the taxes vs deficit issue.

  39. DavidThi808 says:

    I tell you what McCain’s problem with No Child Left Behind was, the funding got left behind. My wife and I lost it over that one.

    I also noticed the CNN graphs had the women higher for Biden almost all the time and the men higher for Palin. Which is fine – more women vote.

  40. ClubTwitty says:

    draws hundreds.

    Wow, hundreds, 4 weeks out from the election.  In a key swing state.

    • Laughing Boy says:

      You’re makin’ that up.

      • ClubTwitty says:

        Front page on both.

        Meanwhile, Michelle Obama drew thousands in Boulder (Daily Camera).  You know me better than that LB, I don’t make things up.

        • Laughing Boy says:

          Just wanted a source because I was lazy.


          • ClubTwitty says:

            But only if its important.  Still, its telling that McCain is only speaking to hundreds 5 weeks out in a key battleground state, I think.  I know you’re a principled man, but there is still time to join the winning team. 🙂

          • Laughing Boy says:

            Event was sold out.  Palin drew 50k last week.

            I think this election is going to be tighter than I think you think it is…

            • ClubTwitty says:

              but not so much McCain.  Sure, but why is he playing in small venues when its this close?  I think it points to his weakness, just as pulling out of MI does.  I think the race wll tighten up, not imaging the blow out that some on my side seem to be relishing.  But the trends look great for Obama/Biden, I think the debate tonight will help (at least not hurt) that trend, and I think come 11/5 Obama wins popular by 5-7 points, EV by over 300, and CO by 2-5%.  You heard it here first.

            • BlueCat says:

              Overconfidence at this point makes me very nervous. No chance it will cause Obama supporters to become complacent, though. We’re not at all taking anything for granted.    

  41. Laughing Boy says:

    When did ‘we and France’ kick Hizbollah out of Lebanon?

    WTF was he trying to pull about the ‘exporting clean coal to China’ BS?

    • Gilpin Guy says:

      my perception was that he was trying to say we can export clean coal technology to China to replace their dirty coal power plants and it will help clean up our air on the west coast.  The interconnectedness of global climate change requires transnational projects and trade with China shouldn’t be a one way street.  It is kind of stunning to see the reversal of conservatives on climate change.  People have transcended Global Warming and are using a more accurate term to describe this issue.

      It was telling that Biden was very explicit that we need to understand the causes of climate change so that we can create effective solutions.  Flailin was trying to have it both ways by acknowledging that climate change is a significant issue and at the same time speak in code to conservatives that industries aren’t at fault and should have to pay to reduce their carbon footprint.

      • Gilpin Guy says:

        . . . shouldn’t have to pay to reduce their carbon footprint.

      • Laughing Boy says:

        He never said that until he was called on it, and Hizbollah never left Lebanon for any reason.

        Nobody’s reversed anything on climate change.  It’s election season.

        Did you think what she said about holding other countries to our standards related to emissions was poignant?

        I think a lot more conservatives would be on board with carbon emissions if we weren’t the only ones held to a standard that affects the bottom line.

        • Gilpin Guy says:

          Other countries did sign the Kyoto agreement and Bush thumbed his nose at them.  The opportunity here is to export our technology in stringent environmental health standards abroad to help with reducing carbon emissions and our balance of trade.  I guess I’m kind of like the illegal immigrant fanatics because I’m single focused and see these deficits as the root cause of a lot of our problems but reducing our trade imbalances could be a side benefit to sharing peaceful technology with the rest of the world.  This is a win/win for liberals and conservatives.

        • sxp151 says:

          And Palin didn’t quite make the point you’re making. She was actually talking about how our pollution from using oil is comparable to their pollution from producing the oil. I’ve never heard an argument for that, and I’m not sure if that’s what she meant to say, but that’s what she said.

  42. Dabee47 says:

    11 folks, 6 undergrads (including my girlfriend), 4 grad students (including myself), and our friend Tom who dropped out like 3 years ago.

    So, we had a little debate watching/drinking session only interrupted by the occasional channel switch to TBS to check the score of the Dodgers-Brewers game.  The results were interesting.

    Nine of 11 of us are self-described Dems, one moderate, and one “conservative” (but not a repub).  None of us thought anyone “won” or “lost,” but 8/11 thought Palin came off better than Biden.  

    The foreign policy section was the game changer.  Biden’s answers were better, but he seemed a little angry.  Not McCain-esque angry, but a little testy.  Palin, while not impressive, held her own.  There was unanimous consent that Palin’s “there you go again, Joe” line was hilarious…but obviously of no real value.

    About an hour in, things got a little fuzzy.  The drinking game went by the wayside and we started acting like college students and taking random shots for no apparent reason.  Oops…

    Final result:  no game-changers and a solid performance by the Senator and Governor.  Going into the debate, nine of us were voting for Obama and that didn’t change.  

    So, there’s your report from the seedy underbelly of CU students that will one day rule the world.  🙂

    • redstateblues says:

      I felt like they were almost having fun up there.

      I didn’t sense Biden’s anger in the foreign policy questions though. I did, however, feel that his closing statement was his best moment.

      Did you notice Palin stopped short of saying she thought gay couples deserved the same civil rights as straight couples? She tolerates them, but not to the extent that they should be treated the same under the law.

      • Dabee47 says:

        It was just so creepy because you can tell she can’t stand gay folks.  She permits their existence but god forbid she accept their lifestyle.  I was just totally creeped out…  It’s like, I “tolerate” babies crying at restaurants and on planes…but I sure as hell don’t like it…

        Maybe “angry” wasn’t the best word for how some of us thought Biden came off.  I guess he just wasn’t quite as lighthearted as he was at other points in the debate.  Personally, there was just something different I couldn’t put my finger on…maybe that’s just me…

        Anyway, his closing was fantastic and they did seem to be having fun like you said.

    • sxp151 says:

      There was unanimous consent that Palin’s “there you go again, Joe” line was hilarious…but obviously of no real value.

      Maybe I’m too deeply into this sort of trivia, but I thought it was pretty obvious she was trying to channel Reagan’s past debate performances. “There you go again” was a stupid line when Reagan first used it against Carter, and Palin couldn’t even come up with her own variation of it.

      And her “Say it ain’t so Joe…doggonit!” was just stupid. Made us laugh out loud, but not for the reasons she’d have wanted. Reminiscent of the end of that last SNL sketch, when Couric tells her she becomes more adorable when she’s cornered.  

      • Dabee47 says:

        I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think anyone  (aside from me) knew Reagan said the same thing in ’80.  None of us were even born then.  🙂

        Regardless, we thought it was funny and didn’t hear a comparable line from Biden…not that he needed it…

      • Pam Bennett says:

        Is an excellent retort to any troll spewing hand me down talking points from the the old man Mccain’s campaign.  

        I missed all but a couple of seconds of the show last night.  So I will be watching the 15 second sound bites when the talking heads are yacking away to figure out how I think it went.

        What I have seen in the short reruns, often without being able to hear what is being spoken, is Biden answering a question with Palin shuffling through whatever was on her podium.  Then when Palin was up just her looking into the camera with a trained beauty contestant look.  

        I was not surprised that she held her own, after all this was not a hardcore interview.  And, if the stagelights are set correctly she couldn’t see the audience allowing her to focus on her talking points.

        My only fear was that Biden would not stand up to her or take her on when she blathered out some lie or distortion.

        I was somewhat surprised that Palin did not have super-glossy lipstick and glitter blush to reinforce her qualifications to almost win a beauty contest.  And, win more of the male vote.  Old man Mccain picked her to be the beauty in the team; the only qualification needed.

        Colorado ballots are in the mailboxes in a week.  If people are basing their vote at this late date on a veep show, it is really sad.

    • dwyer says:

      In whose seedy underbelly do you think all the old farts who have nothing better to do than blog here, were nurtured? Old Alma Mater CU.  

      CU has one of the highest number of peace corps volunteers in the country…because no one cannot get a job when they graduate…..Join the peace corps, postpone paying your student loans, come home and get a teaching degree for the benies and the pension…

      It’s the colleges from Idaho that are turning out the world leaders…

      although, i did appreciate your observations…sounds like what happened at my house, too…

  43. Gilpin Guy says:

    is that Failin looked like a aging beauty pageant queen with less depth than George Bush.

    She is a lightweight Bush 2.0 with the same phony good old boy mannerisms.

    Biden did what he was suppose to do.

    The next month will see American politics get so deep in the gutter by John McCain that we are all going to want to take showers regularly.

    • redstateblues says:

      She held her own.

      • Fidel's dirt nap says:

        yes, but I don’t think she actually answered a question she was asked ONCE.  And she has zero depth – just mindless cheerleading.

        That is really annoying to me, and probably a lot of other people as well.

        • redstateblues says:

          But debates are less about substance than we would all like them to be. Remember that Kennedy won on TV, but Nixon won on the radio.

          Either way, I still don’t think the VP debate changed anything. Obama will most likely continue his lead in the polls–barring some unforeseen gaffe in one of the next two debates.

      • parsingreality says:

        six inches above the floor.  

        I almost everyone concedes that she did better than expected, but the expectations were so low it would have been impossible for her to fail.

        I don’t want my president to be frequently saying “betcha” and “ya.” Nor calling Senator Biden “Joe.”  I may have well missed it, but I don’t recall him calling her Sarah.

        The tragedy of modern American politics is that so many in the public want some one like their own selves to be president.  They vote who they want to have a beer with, not for the person with the experience, knowledge, and skills to navigate a complex world.  And you would think after voting for “Have a beer with” Bush TWICE the public would yearn for an intellectually ELITE leader like Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Clinton, but nooooooooooo……

        I want my president smarter than me, more literate than me, better diction than me, better educated than me, wiser than me.  The Republican ticket fails miserably on those criteria.

        • sxp151 says:

          was to say, “Say it ain’t so, Joe!” A line she fucked up so badly (pairing it with six other folksy things all at once that she hadn’t been able to squeeze into other answers) that she made a lot of people laugh out loud, for the wrong reasons.


          That was the only time she called him “Joe,” other times using “Senator” or “Senator Biden.” I think Biden always called her “the Governor,” but I can’t be certain.  

          • Gilpin Guy says:

            There was no genuine warmth to using a personal name.  It was aimed at stabbing him in the back and diverting attention away from the terrible legacy of Bush.

            Unfortunately her zingers were totally scripted by the invisible hand of the Republican handlers and shows what a tool she would be by those who really control that party.

            It just reinforces the narrative that nothing changes with the mavericks.  Lobbyists will continue to write the legislation and the good old gal shtick will be even thicker than with Bush.  

          • DavidThi808 says:

            He used “it’s not the beginning of the end, it’s the end of the beginning” which was Churchill’s famous quote in WWII – after winning Tobruk I believe.

            McCain delivered it poorly and I doubt many even got where it came from – he’s no Churchill.

        • Dabee47 says:

          The folksy schtick isn’t presidential, it’s mayoral, it may even be gubernatorial…but not presidential.

          One question for “ya” though, parsing.  You don’t like her calling Biden “Joe,” but what about Obama calling McCain “John?” He does it all the time, but McCain usually calls Barack “Senator Obama.”

  44. parsingreality says:


    Transcript at http://www.realclearpolitics.c

    Interestingly, the transcript doesn’t recognize “ya” or “betcha.”  It changes them to you and bet you.  

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