CO-04 (Special Election)
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(R) Greg Lopez
(R) Trisha Calvarese
90%
10%
President (To Win Colorado)
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(D) Joe Biden*
(R) Donald Trump
80%
20%↓
CO-01 (Denver)
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(D) Diana DeGette*
90%
CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(D) Joe Neguse*
90%
CO-03 (West & Southern CO)
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(D) Adam Frisch
(R) Jeff Hurd
(R) Ron Hanks
40%
30%
20%
CO-04 (Northeast-ish Colorado)
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(R) Lauren Boebert
(R) Deborah Flora
(R) J. Sonnenberg
30%↑
15%↑
10%↓
CO-05 (Colorado Springs)
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(R) Dave Williams
(R) Jeff Crank
50%↓
50%↑
CO-06 (Aurora)
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(D) Jason Crow*
90%
CO-07 (Jefferson County)
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(D) Brittany Pettersen
85%↑
CO-08 (Northern Colo.)
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(D) Yadira Caraveo
(R) Gabe Evans
(R) Janak Joshi
60%↑
35%↓
30%↑
State Senate Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
80%
20%
State House Majority
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DEMOCRATS
REPUBLICANS
95%
5%
October 03, 2008 01:00 AM UTC
233 Comments
I am really hoping for a whole night of gaffes, misspeaks, and just hysterical political comedy. I’m getting tired of all the doomsday rhetoric.
the possibility that hitting Palin hard on her record will be perceived as “beating up” on her…
…Which would be severely ironic considering Sen. Biden wrote the Violence Against Women Act.
The country is broke and owes ten TRILLION dollars to creditors around the world. Biden needs to step up and say the obvious about the state of our economy. The rescue plan is iffy and we need to start curtailing our commitments around the world to bring our finances back in order.
Talk about the Republican disgrace of borrowing records amounts of money while giving away tax cuts to the rich.
Respectfully, do you think the “tax breaks for the rich” is more of a talking point than a fact? You can almost wipe out the bottom 50% of taxpayers as a viable source of tax income, right. Any tax break will favor ‘the rich’ because the poor don’t pay taxes, right?
the “poor” do pay taxes. They pay payroll taxes (FICA, Medicare/Medicaid) on 100% of their income, which the rich (by McCain’s definiation of anyone earning $250k or more) only pay on 40% or less of their income; the poor also pay sales taxes on a higher percentage of their income than do the rich because those living paycheck-to-paycheck, pay sales tax on 100% of their income where as the wealthy can stash some of their cash away.
if, as you state, someone is spending in such a manner that they “…pay sales tax on 100% of their income…”. Obviously, they must be spending 100% of their income on retail purchases (subject to sales tax)and 0% on staple groceries, 0% for housing,0% for medical and dental care, etc. since none of theses categories are subject to sales tax.
But, it does make a nice soundbite for attempts at class warfare…
expempt food and medical care (including over-the-counter drugs) from sales taxes.
It isn’t class warfare to point out that the wealthy and their allies in congress have been launching attacks on the middle class since the 1980’s.
was predicated on class warfare, as you call it. From before WWI through the 1960’s it was perfectly OK to point out the differences in perks and obligations between our economic classes.
The current class warfare is by the privileged to limit their societal obligations. And they started this push back with Reagan and made “class warfare” a perjorative instead of a good thing.
And then they suck in numerous middle class people to side with them! Sucka!
My understanding of the Bush tax cuts were that they primarily benefited the top of the pile.
What I want to see Biden point out is that the narrative that Republicans can govern with out taxes is a hoax because they substitute tax revenue with debt. Raising taxes is bad according to Republican philosophy but borrowing money with the associated interest isn’t. What a crazy fraud has been perpetrated on our country in order to win votes.
I want to see a discussion of how we reduce our 10 trillion dollar debt. If they want to lead this country then let them discuss how to lead us out of this debt. I hate the idea that we are going to end up cutting all government functions except debt servicing and the military.
that Palin is going to bomb on simple questions and Republicans are going to blame a fine reporter, Gwen Ifill (they’ve already started this).
no matter what, because they’re fucking morons. They literally don’t know anything about issues, and they don’t care because they don’t think that stuff is cool. So they glaze over at substantive discussions, they never notice real gaffes like McCain’s “veto all spending bills” (unless a campaign points them out), and the only way you can get them to notice anything is to say something nasty or repeat yourself six times (like McCain did in the last debate).
Palin’s utter cluelessness means she’s going to be a perfect debater for this audience of pundit twits, since all she knows is style, and coincidentally that’s all they care about.
Based on past performance I would have assumed the ads were already running . . .
the New York Times will write:
“Alaska Governor Can’t Swim!”
Lord help us……..my eyes, my eyes!
…there goes my appetite. Thanks a lot Jambalaya.
/Off to find the brain bleach
..the ginorous Bluebook!
…for bedtime reading. I can’t wait to get to the Spanish part!
I needed something a little more medicinal to wash away the thought of the MooseMaster in a swimsuit.
…there! now you’ve had it! Only a distilled medicine can help you now.
…you just had to point that out. Eeeeewwww.
There’s no helping me now.
the Denver Post will write: “Palin, the Hockey Mom, walks on water!”
After her Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric interviews the bar is set so low, it’s almost impossible for her not to exceed expectations.
Hillary on top, of course.
Thanks for THAT mental image.
before the 2nd question wraps up. I intend to take a sip every time she says something stupid but that may prove to backfire and lead to the mother of all hangovers tomorrow.
You’ll end up running to the bathroom a lot, but no hangover.
Since I have a lovely bottle of Grey Goose taking up space in my freezer. 🙂
Obama now has 34 field offices in Colorado. This community organizer thing really does translate into political effectiveness.
(Uhh, you could give me the Grey Goose and you could sip the tonic water…)
McCain has now conceded Michigan.
How do you win when you concede a battleground state that in theory has your most persuadeable voters?
he said “We took public money and don’t have the virtually unlimited resources Obama does.”
They don’t admit to writing off Michigan but cutting back there lets them divert staf and ad budgets to ohio, florida and other winnable states, including Colorado. I never seriously thought McCain could take Michigan.
There is probably some poor McCain volunteer that is now responsible for the trying to keep up the effort. That would be a fun job.
It wasn’t on their list of states they are concentrating on.
as is obama
yesterday.
Wow. Both McCain and Obama are throwing every resource they have into winning Colorado, from the looks of it.
And btw, I’m fine today. I skipped cocktails, listened to the debate on NPR and went to bed. 🙂
“That’s a thoughtful question, Gwen. I cede my time to the governor of the great state of Alaska.”
exactly. please Joe, just let her do all of the talking
..you never what’ll come out of his mouth.
…and guess Caribou Barbie will be wearing her hair down tonight in an attempt to a) look more “girly” and b) hide the receiver shoved into her ear.
Her one big advantage is her smooth delivery of the one-liners. If she’s getting it from the ear piece that will totally blow that smooth delivery.
I am not ready to write the lady off….
Katy Couric got hustled…Olberman fell for it…..she is holding her own….twenty minutes into the debate…
You can disagree with what she is saying…but it is obvious that the media interviews were set ups….she played Gibson and Couric for fools…and tricked the msm….
She just learned fromthe miscues with Gibson and Couric. She’s no fool but neither is she a master of manipulation.
The result is, however, exactly as you said.
Low expectations plus a mediocre performance results in a “Palin didn’t screw up big time” story.
I think that, in retrospect in the interview with Couric, she was deliberately a self parody. I think it was a set up…later in the debate, Palin said that she wanted to talk directly to the American people without the “filter” of the msm….implying, of course, that Couric had been a “filter.”
I am weary of the trick n treat aspect of the McCain strategy.
I think the country is in incredible trouble and I think that the steady, deliberate approach of Obama is what is needed…but I will not underestimate McCain, Palin, or the determination of the Republicans to maintain power…
I thought that Biden was very, very, good. However, the attention was all on Palin.
To say she wanted it “like tonight” without the MSM filter when the only difference was that there were no follow up questions. It was still an interview from a MSM anchor and it will still be debated by the talking heads afterwards.
She just wants to avoid follow-up questions.
and she’ll blow biden out of the water. After McCain’s inaugural, Tina will be named minister of Culture.
Biden can just make his points about the failed Bush/McCain policies and let Sarah be Sarah. When she is incapable of answering a question in a straight-forward manner, the chips will fall where they may.
Anyone else notice Palin’s Alaska pin is located above her US flag pin?
I’m taking a shot every time I hear the word “betcha”.
…his blinding white teeth are distracting and condescending.
oops, sorry.
Damn, right outta the chute and she violates protocol.
I’m sure you CAN, honey, but you MAY not!
And it was about 8 minutes into the debate when the first “maverick” was inserted.
But probably an improvement over Bush’s.
I’m shocked that Biden doesn’t have better comebacks than he does. He has always struck me as someone who thinks well on his feet but he’s just not agile, and it shouldn’t be that hard.
He also sounded like he was weaseling on the rope line coal answer.
They both seem nervous. Weird.
She’s kicking his ass. Because in typical Democratic fashion, instead of calling her the lying scum that she is, he’s trying to be politically correct.
that most thought Palin did pretty well. No big gaffes from Biden and Palin was coherent if light on content.
Good to see that Biden was recognized as being far more knowledgeable but since all Palin had to do was exceed expectations and all Biden had to do was not supply a big fat gaffe or appear mean and condescending, they both did fine.
Not a game changer and that’s good for Obama/Biden since their numbers are headed in the right direction. Not a disaster for Palin so MCain/Palin might quit sliding for a while. After all that hype, that’s about it. For now.
It’s sad….that being a good human being is so incorrectly labled, denigrated and dehumanized.
My opinion of the VP debates is there is a little to lose and nothing to win. Even the world’s best performance here wouldn’t win more than an anemic handful of votes. But a candidate can blow a good number for the big guy.
I’m sure I would be nervous despite all the best preparation if I was in a fight with no real upside.
Matthew
It doesn’t rise and fall like its previous arctic peaks and valleys.
Calls to mind My Fair Lady: her coaches saying, “Repeat after us, Sarah, ‘The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain!‘”
The diction did not “rise and fall” when she debated during the Alaska governor’s race. She was articulate and knowledgeable about Alaska….just like she was last night.
She played “he haw” for the east coast MSM because she rightly figured out that they would not pick up on it…
I never heard her debate during the Alaska governor’s race, so I wouldn’t know.
However, her cadence did rise and fall during her acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention — much more so than it did during the debate last night.
Kinda like a pregame show. She sounded fine in those debates.
although I must admit I am not linguist. I just think that she played dumb for charlie and katie, and smart for the larger TV audience.
MSM = George Frazier
She pulled the ‘ol rope-a-dope on them.
Sorry, Sarah. But it’s idiotic.
Not all so afflicted, but a tragedy nevertheless.
Please help, donate until it hurts to stop this scourge.
Donate here. Quickly. Give ’til it hurts.
She was stumbling at first, complete deer in headlights. Then she finally managed to find a way to connect it to one of her talking points. You could just see her face light up as she realized her way out. Then she quickly changed topics and went on to hit a completely different robotic talking point.
CNN analyst score has it at 195 to 103 in Biden’s favor.
Gee, what a surprise… guess I’ll change my vote!
One of my major pet peeves is pols who pronounce nuclear as “nuc-u-lar.” (Shudder) Get a clue!
Why post a caricature of Palin and a real photo of Biden?
It’s your blog (until the Truth Squad comes after you in an Obama admin.), but sheesh.
I did not notice that before. It could be an oversight, but intentional or not it isn’t cricket to use a Britishism I’m fond of.
At fifty minutes.
Boy, she sure has a lot of cliches and gloss overs.
patronizing references to the moderator are cheesy. “As you well know, Gwen…”.
Not as bad as mispronouncing nuclear, but close.
Biden’s a likeable guy, but she’s done pretty well against him. The Afghanistan thing was big, too.
They both are not answering the questions. But Palin does it so badly!
Biden should call her on her gaffes. He is being too polite and is not relaxed. She is just concentrating on her notes and talking points.
🙂
She’s a genius, I tell ya.
Get it? “Ya.”
Joe Biden is presidential. He speaks well, has a grasp of nuance that escapes Palin.
Sarah Palin is mayoral. Of a 6,000 person village.
“Can I call ya Vlad?”
I learned that in Texas. My Pennsylvania mother tried to correct me. I don’t give a damn. Now, “Eyerack” is a different matter. You becha.
as it’s gone on. The first five minutes I was cringing because she looked so frightened.
as in “warshington is where the nukular codes are kept.
That’s where I learned to say “warsh,” then we moved to Missouri and I was laughed at. Never recovered. Thanks for bringing it up.
but I guess Kansas standard extends past the state line. Still, those folks in “muh-zur-uh” aint got no right to make fun of us folks.
Eastern side of the state says Mizzuree, western side says muhzuruh. The proper pronunciation of the state name was one of the few topics on which I disagree with Calvin Trillin.
card awful heavy the other night.
But we who live in a state that literally translates as “Red” need to be careful about throwing those stones.
Some professor from Penn was on NPR and identified that pronunciation as being from Rhode Island down to Wilimington, Del. he was on today, for god’s sakes.
Made my philadelphia heart glad, as I never could even hear the difference between what I said and what others heard..
I love this staff. What a wonderful cultural mosaic this country is.
and I don’t remember people around pronouncing “Warshington.”
Of course, we did say “crick” instead of “creek,” and New Yorkers would tell me we all said “wudder” instead of “water,” but as you say, I could never hear it.
That was smart. A plug for passing legislation in her home state on divestment from Sudan is pretty good tactics. It will probably light a fire under Alaskan legislators and it probably plays well with viewers at home.
Biden’s rambling on the ‘what if Obama died’ question.
Free association after reading from his card to make sure he didn’t deviate. I thought Palin would do that, but she had a pretty snappy answer.
I’m feeling relieved. She did well.
Yeah,
shit, another “ya” as I typedid real well jumping over the bar six inches above the debate floor.She’s a joke and if elected it’s America that will find out it’s April Fools.
Right? She’s everything you despise. But Biden’s trying to ‘out white trash’ her, and it’s confusing to me why he’d do that. He can’t.
I really think she’s outperformed what she needed to do.
Sad, that you and I could have a much more pointed and intelligent debate with the same questions than any of these turds. Plus we’d both be smoking cigars so we’d look cooler.
Think they look cool, but they really look gay.
Wait – does that mean I’m gay?
🙂
No, surely not!
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Biden. I’d never watched him before, just read newspaper articles. And from that I had an impression of him as being a lot more stiff and scattered than he comes across in this debate.
And Palin is very charming, but she isn’t really ahead of Biden on that department. I thought she’d be terribly disarming in a nice folksy way. Maybe it is the careful play of to VPs, but this isn’t living up to billing as great political theater.
“Oh goody goody, I can’t wait until I get to choose my choice/s for the Supreme Court!”
Mavericks: 3
Substance: 0
We thought it was 4. Maverick is one of the key words in our debate drinking game. 🙂
I was busy for a few minutes here and there and wasn’t so focused.
Biden’s ever bought anything in a Home Depot?
His neighborhood? He’s been in Congress since Nixon was in the White House. I’m not sure why he’s trying to compete with her on the ‘regular person’ thing. He can’t. It looks and sounds as believable as Kerry with a shotgun.
Gave my best friend power tools. He loves me.
He seems like the sort of guy who’d do some of his own repairs. He seems like a blue collar guy gone to congress. Very Mr. Smith Goes to Washington is my impression. Just talking impressions, no idea about the substance except that I know he’s one of the least wealthy of the Senators.
Didn’t stay in Washington for a lifetime. It’s an act.
Biden’s a likeable guy, but the quintessential Washington insider.
Might be part of why he’s a Washington insider. Just saying.
And why wouldn’t Mr. Smith stay in Washington for a lifetime? My memory is fuzzy, but didn’t he win in the end? Wouldn’t he stay to fight on for other causes? Does right go home to the farm or does it stay in Washington like John Quincy Adams did to fight the good fight?
He goes home to Delaware constantly, and his neighbors and the folks whose stores he shops at know him well. His house is his only asset.
Palin and her husband are worth a million dollars. Of course, that’s just one of McCain’s smaller houses – or maybe a couple of his most expensive dozen automobiles.
But let’s get off the mooseburgers and Home Depot and arugula and houses stuff. It’s all window dressing. Who will be the better stewards for America in the coming years?
Obama and Biden – not even close!
I lived in Delaware off and on for several years. Yup, you do see him around town doing “normal” kinds of things. We used to see him in a small resturant over by Trolley Square with the kids.
she just strings together buzz words in nonsense.
Biden could have spent zero time prepping and I think he would have done as well.
Palin has obviously been well coached because she needed to be.
Oops, another maverick sighting at 20 minutes after the hour.
Hey, Biden is calling him “No maverick.” Go, Joe! I mean Senator Biden.
then don’t answer the question, sprinkle in a few mavericks, a touch of gosh darn it, 20 bumper sticker phrases, and repeat…
and PRESTO, what do you have ?
A disaster
a contest
Biden hit a home run on the question about the VP’s role. Wow.
Because I’m a man … sob story
(choke)
so weak.
Your name fits: you’re reptilian.
Seriously, that “sob story” is about his wife and child dying. What a “compassionate” conservative you are.
If you’re watching those tracking devices at the bottom of the screen, notice how they take a very sudden dive as soon as Biden starts to choke up. My wife was watching it on CNN (I was on MSNBC), and she told me about it. I wouldn’t have believed it. The ratings do go back up shortly after, higher than they were before.
I can understand them going down – it was very real and clearly very very painful even now to him. It made people uncomfortable and so I can see the ratings dropping – yet at the same time, that doesn’t mean it had a negative effect.
Time for Biden’s “Maverick” speech.
and mindless talking points. Joe mopped up the floor with her, as the CNN tracker clearly showed throughout the debate.
McCain/Palin is gonna lose BAD.
San Dimas High School Football RULES!
Look at this headline on RedState…
Sarah Palin is mopping the floor with Joe Biden.
Sexist too: Now she’s a maid?
whenever she got uncomfortable (which was often) she kept going back to her safe words.
So that’s what “betcha” means!
Seriously, the woman is one bouffant hair away from being Miss South Carolina in last year’s Miss Teen USA pagent. It was a veritable blizzard of bs.
Ten minutes into the debate and somebody in my group had already won VP Debate Cliche Bingo.
for tearing up.
You girls gotta tough it out.
Ain’t the new rules grand?
Did a fantastic job. Anyone that complains about a partisan moderator in this case is a big pussy.
what a GREAT president she would be snark
You big meanie.
I think Gwen did OK but I think Palin did terribly
You are willing to make some objective observations.
n/t
She’s effective at marshaling divergent points of view on her PBS show Washington Week.
Joe “won”
But it will play as a tie, which isn’t enough.
favored Biden throughout the debate. Palin didn’t self-destruct, but she did nothing to turn the momentum back in McCain’s favor, so I think Obama’s climb continued.
Palin won by not losing; Biden won by winning. It’s a win/win situation!
Which doesn’t much effect the cost of moose meat in Alaska or Taylor Ham in New Jersey: Obama’s still ahead, in the grand scheme of things, as a result.
No one can win a VP debate. There is just not making your running mate look bad. It would be hard to force a VP to make his or her running mate look bad. So it was all on Biden and Palin to not screw up badly. Biden did a better job of that, but it doesn’t matter in this situation.
The VP debate is like a pass/fail class. It doesn’t matter how much you pass by as long as you pass.
It’s just the VP debate. The whole goal was for him not to make news with a colorful gaffe and for her not to look like a complete moron. Mission accomplished. Obama still up and McCain still down in the polls. No real change. No real loser.
Isn’t enough to change the dynamics of the race.
was when Joe Biden was talking about being a single parent and understanding that himself. It looked like he was about to cry because of what he had been through and how well he understood.
I think that was the most powerful moment in the debate and reflects well on Biden.
Having once met the man and seen him speak, he is still very emotional when it comes to his family. Its a great thing to see a man that really does care, a lot. His care for his family, particularly his sons is something that is special.
Is that every time when the wives some up on stage he and his wife immediately hug. And they then always either have their arms around each other, or at least hold hands. It clearly is natural for them, to always be touching.
Barack & Michelle Obama are that way too, not to quite the degree as the Bidens but they also clearly are used to that level of affection.
I realize that this has nothing to do with how good of an administration they would be. Clinton humped everything in sight yet was a good president. But still, I like it.
Also his final sentence – something like “I know this is selfish but especially God watch over our troops.” That wasn’t said for votes, that was said because his son is over there and that matters more to him than anything.
while McCain seems completely unaware of her presence. He never looks at her, much less touches her. He’s much warmer toward Palin. It’s kind of creepy. Makes you wonder if he’s as contemptuous of his wife as he is of Obama.
Trollop and cunt are terms of endearment!
I thought everyone knew that … well, at least everyone who went to CU.
Most likely a McCain supporter 🙂
n/t
but among me and my cynical friends, our first thought was that it looked really fake and scripted. He recovered really quickly.
I’m sure he does still tear up over it (it’s the crappiest thing I can imagine happening to anyone), but he kind of brought it up out of nowhere, it seemed. So it looked a little manipulative.
Sarah Palin had just said that only she understood what it was like to bring up the kids and juggle all the responsibilities. Biden got pissed and that’s why you say the real Joe Biden – raw.
We were talking over some of the debate, so I don’t remember much of that answer (I think she said something about being a mom, like regular people). Be nice to see the longer version with her previous answer.
But after I thought about it, I think that years and years of public speaking have given him the ability to recover from something more quickly than the average Joe–so to speak.
Taxosaurus thinks that someone who still has emotion about his dead wife and children is a wimp.
Loser.
“are we going to have to start calling answers to questions that have nothing to do with the question pulling a Palin?”
“What do you think of student testing and failing schools?”
“Blue, my favorite color is blue”
Turned to me 4 times during Palin’s answers and said “what was the original question.” She was also annoyed about Palin doing that.
Who is not political but is a fantastic hockey player turned to me and said:
“What the fuck’s wrong with his eyes? It looks like someone tightened his ears a turn too many. He used to be bald and wrinkly and now he’s got a head full of weird hair and he looks like he can’t smile?”
Plastic Surgery Disasters?
tell her to hit you over the head with her hockey stick and knock some sense into you 🙂
His forehead definitely did look weird – botox?
I’m the king of my castle and what I say goes…
Uh…nothing honey! Hee hee! Just looking at the blogs!
Thank God for our anonymity here! 🙂
http://shirley.thielen.com/thi…
oh, forget it, you’ve probably heard that punchline before.
a mom who can’t provide her kid with health care because McCain voted against SCHIP? A lot.
The biggest thing everyone was looking for was would Sarah Palin fall flat on her face. And she didn’t. So she came across as acceptable as a VP to enough people that McCain/Palin remains possible.
Between her prep, the debate format, and the fact that Palin is a very talented candidate, that was a likely outcome. All of us Dems hoped she would crash & burn but this was the likely outcome.
So point 1 – McCain/Palin is still alive.
The second thing everyone was looking for was could Biden debate agressively without being viewed as beating up the girl or being patronizing or… And he nailed that perfectly. What he did was tear in to the ideas she brought up, and started by labeling them McCain’s ideas. So he was very agressive beating up McCain.
So point 2 – Biden was able to be agressive with no issues due to his opponent being female.
The third thing is races aren’t won in the VP debate, but they can be lost. So they key issue for each is to do no harm to their campaign. And no harm was done. There were hits on each other but a week from now this debate is unlikely to have any real impact on the race.
How did they do? Biden I think did very well. He came across as knowledgable, competent, and there as the team that can address all of these issues – and tried to do so in the past.
I also think his part about being a single parent did come from the heart and was incredibly powerful. I think that is the one specific part of the debate people will remember. I’d give him a A-.
Palin came across as someone who was out of her depth at times and always returned to a couple of themes she was comfortable with. About every third question she ended up on some totally unrelated topic in her answer. And she kept reusing the maverick/just folks lines to the point that they got tired. Her high points was having a topic she was comfortable answering.
But she did do a competent job both attacking and selling that the answer to 8 years of Republican incompetence was 4 more years of Republican administration. (Interesting how rarely the word Republican or Democratic was used – by either.) And she did say Bush made major mistakes, which the base will let her do and the middle will appreciate. I give her a C.
How does this change the campaign? The Republicans can relax a bit and concentrate on other items now that this is over. So they’re a bit better off now. But no significant change in how the race is going.
Tomorrow we’re back to Obama vs McCain and Obama continuing his climb in the polls.
This JUST in! 🙂
On CNN, their focus group said 64? percent thought Biden did better than expected and Palin 84%. Which shows you what they really thought of Palin before tonight.
Not ready for prime time.
Biden won by about 2:1
Watch Obama’s polls keep climbing over the weekend, up by 3 more in national tracking by Tuesday.
Those numbers aren’t going to get much better and when you corner a rabid animal like McCain they instinctively attack. McCain’s jumpiing out of Michigan and will engage in the worst politics we’ve ever seen in states like Virginia, Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Get ready to fight back.
She gets a better grade just because she didn’t come across as the total cretin she looked like when Couric was asking her questions.
Definitely not presidential material, of course. Not even trainable. But was able to speak for about 45 minutes without totally falling on her face.
But it was so obvious that the only way she didn’t look like a total cretin was by completely changing to different topics that she had been coached and prepared on. She panicked when she was asked a question she hadn’t been coached on, then looked relieved when she could finally find a way to switch it to a rehersed topic.
I bet a lot less.
We all tend to like attractive people.
That the photo at the top of this post is of Tina Fey and not Sarah Palin…
I think this comes more from being an Alaska politician than a Republican. She was constantly talking about both lowering taxes and providing more government services. They can do that in Alaska because they have the oil companies as their trust fund. But it doesn’t work in the rest of the country.
But it is what people want to hear – they want their taxes to go down and get more services.
We are ten trillion dollars in debt and neither candidate would acknowledge that the debt won’t go away with tax cuts. Our economy is wrecked and we are spending at least ten billion a month on empire.
Biden made passing reference to the deficit but he could have put the hammer down on Republicans and borrowing. Every Republican president has increased borrowing and the size of government since Reagan. Every one has campaign on less government and turned around and borrowed to the max to finance their Star Wars fantasies and occupations.
Who pray tell is going to pay the bill? Our children? Our grandchildren? I am sick of this constant harping about avoiding paying taxes like it is some kind of fatal disease. Somebody is going to have to sacrifice and either pay more taxes or accept less services. Neither candidate in my mind was forthright about the taxes vs deficit issue.
I tell you what McCain’s problem with No Child Left Behind was, the funding got left behind. My wife and I lost it over that one.
I also noticed the CNN graphs had the women higher for Biden almost all the time and the men higher for Palin. Which is fine – more women vote.
draws hundreds.
Wow, hundreds, 4 weeks out from the election. In a key swing state.
You’re makin’ that up.
Front page on both.
Meanwhile, Michelle Obama drew thousands in Boulder (Daily Camera). You know me better than that LB, I don’t make things up.
Just wanted a source because I was lazy.
🙂
But only if its important. Still, its telling that McCain is only speaking to hundreds 5 weeks out in a key battleground state, I think. I know you’re a principled man, but there is still time to join the winning team. 🙂
Event was sold out. Palin drew 50k last week.
I think this election is going to be tighter than I think you think it is…
but not so much McCain. Sure, but why is he playing in small venues when its this close? I think it points to his weakness, just as pulling out of MI does. I think the race wll tighten up, not imaging the blow out that some on my side seem to be relishing. But the trends look great for Obama/Biden, I think the debate tonight will help (at least not hurt) that trend, and I think come 11/5 Obama wins popular by 5-7 points, EV by over 300, and CO by 2-5%. You heard it here first.
Overconfidence at this point makes me very nervous. No chance it will cause Obama supporters to become complacent, though. We’re not at all taking anything for granted.
When did ‘we and France’ kick Hizbollah out of Lebanon?
WTF was he trying to pull about the ‘exporting clean coal to China’ BS?
my perception was that he was trying to say we can export clean coal technology to China to replace their dirty coal power plants and it will help clean up our air on the west coast. The interconnectedness of global climate change requires transnational projects and trade with China shouldn’t be a one way street. It is kind of stunning to see the reversal of conservatives on climate change. People have transcended Global Warming and are using a more accurate term to describe this issue.
It was telling that Biden was very explicit that we need to understand the causes of climate change so that we can create effective solutions. Flailin was trying to have it both ways by acknowledging that climate change is a significant issue and at the same time speak in code to conservatives that industries aren’t at fault and should have to pay to reduce their carbon footprint.
. . . shouldn’t have to pay to reduce their carbon footprint.
He never said that until he was called on it, and Hizbollah never left Lebanon for any reason.
Nobody’s reversed anything on climate change. It’s election season.
Did you think what she said about holding other countries to our standards related to emissions was poignant?
I think a lot more conservatives would be on board with carbon emissions if we weren’t the only ones held to a standard that affects the bottom line.
Other countries did sign the Kyoto agreement and Bush thumbed his nose at them. The opportunity here is to export our technology in stringent environmental health standards abroad to help with reducing carbon emissions and our balance of trade. I guess I’m kind of like the illegal immigrant fanatics because I’m single focused and see these deficits as the root cause of a lot of our problems but reducing our trade imbalances could be a side benefit to sharing peaceful technology with the rest of the world. This is a win/win for liberals and conservatives.
And Palin didn’t quite make the point you’re making. She was actually talking about how our pollution from using oil is comparable to their pollution from producing the oil. I’ve never heard an argument for that, and I’m not sure if that’s what she meant to say, but that’s what she said.
11 folks, 6 undergrads (including my girlfriend), 4 grad students (including myself), and our friend Tom who dropped out like 3 years ago.
So, we had a little debate watching/drinking session only interrupted by the occasional channel switch to TBS to check the score of the Dodgers-Brewers game. The results were interesting.
Nine of 11 of us are self-described Dems, one moderate, and one “conservative” (but not a repub). None of us thought anyone “won” or “lost,” but 8/11 thought Palin came off better than Biden.
The foreign policy section was the game changer. Biden’s answers were better, but he seemed a little angry. Not McCain-esque angry, but a little testy. Palin, while not impressive, held her own. There was unanimous consent that Palin’s “there you go again, Joe” line was hilarious…but obviously of no real value.
About an hour in, things got a little fuzzy. The drinking game went by the wayside and we started acting like college students and taking random shots for no apparent reason. Oops…
Final result: no game-changers and a solid performance by the Senator and Governor. Going into the debate, nine of us were voting for Obama and that didn’t change.
So, there’s your report from the seedy underbelly of CU students that will one day rule the world. 🙂
I felt like they were almost having fun up there.
I didn’t sense Biden’s anger in the foreign policy questions though. I did, however, feel that his closing statement was his best moment.
Did you notice Palin stopped short of saying she thought gay couples deserved the same civil rights as straight couples? She tolerates them, but not to the extent that they should be treated the same under the law.
It was just so creepy because you can tell she can’t stand gay folks. She permits their existence but god forbid she accept their lifestyle. I was just totally creeped out… It’s like, I “tolerate” babies crying at restaurants and on planes…but I sure as hell don’t like it…
Maybe “angry” wasn’t the best word for how some of us thought Biden came off. I guess he just wasn’t quite as lighthearted as he was at other points in the debate. Personally, there was just something different I couldn’t put my finger on…maybe that’s just me…
Anyway, his closing was fantastic and they did seem to be having fun like you said.
the “tolerant” trainwreck of disconnected thoughts she spewed out at that point.
Maybe I’m too deeply into this sort of trivia, but I thought it was pretty obvious she was trying to channel Reagan’s past debate performances. “There you go again” was a stupid line when Reagan first used it against Carter, and Palin couldn’t even come up with her own variation of it.
And her “Say it ain’t so Joe…doggonit!” was just stupid. Made us laugh out loud, but not for the reasons she’d have wanted. Reminiscent of the end of that last SNL sketch, when Couric tells her she becomes more adorable when she’s cornered.
I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think anyone (aside from me) knew Reagan said the same thing in ’80. None of us were even born then. 🙂
Regardless, we thought it was funny and didn’t hear a comparable line from Biden…not that he needed it…
Is an excellent retort to any troll spewing hand me down talking points from the the old man Mccain’s campaign.
I missed all but a couple of seconds of the show last night. So I will be watching the 15 second sound bites when the talking heads are yacking away to figure out how I think it went.
What I have seen in the short reruns, often without being able to hear what is being spoken, is Biden answering a question with Palin shuffling through whatever was on her podium. Then when Palin was up just her looking into the camera with a trained beauty contestant look.
I was not surprised that she held her own, after all this was not a hardcore interview. And, if the stagelights are set correctly she couldn’t see the audience allowing her to focus on her talking points.
My only fear was that Biden would not stand up to her or take her on when she blathered out some lie or distortion.
I was somewhat surprised that Palin did not have super-glossy lipstick and glitter blush to reinforce her qualifications to almost win a beauty contest. And, win more of the male vote. Old man Mccain picked her to be the beauty in the team; the only qualification needed.
Colorado ballots are in the mailboxes in a week. If people are basing their vote at this late date on a veep show, it is really sad.
In whose seedy underbelly do you think all the old farts who have nothing better to do than blog here, were nurtured? Old Alma Mater CU.
CU has one of the highest number of peace corps volunteers in the country…because no one cannot get a job when they graduate…..Join the peace corps, postpone paying your student loans, come home and get a teaching degree for the benies and the pension…
It’s the colleges from Idaho that are turning out the world leaders…
although, i did appreciate your observations…sounds like what happened at my house, too…
Other than the guys in camo?
Palin is the antithesis of a world leader.
Thank God for Rozek!
is that Failin looked like a aging beauty pageant queen with less depth than George Bush.
She is a lightweight Bush 2.0 with the same phony good old boy mannerisms.
Biden did what he was suppose to do.
The next month will see American politics get so deep in the gutter by John McCain that we are all going to want to take showers regularly.
She held her own.
yes, but I don’t think she actually answered a question she was asked ONCE. And she has zero depth – just mindless cheerleading.
That is really annoying to me, and probably a lot of other people as well.
But debates are less about substance than we would all like them to be. Remember that Kennedy won on TV, but Nixon won on the radio.
Either way, I still don’t think the VP debate changed anything. Obama will most likely continue his lead in the polls–barring some unforeseen gaffe in one of the next two debates.
was not due to substance, it was due to him having a deep familiar voice and Kennedy having a weird Boston accent.
Of course, that’s only if you assume Americans are total morons. Considering most of them saw through Palin’s schtick, I think that’s an unfair assumption.
She did not do well
I think for Palin, doing well was exceeding expectations. She did that.
six inches above the floor.
I almost everyone concedes that she did better than expected, but the expectations were so low it would have been impossible for her to fail.
I don’t want my president to be frequently saying “betcha” and “ya.” Nor calling Senator Biden “Joe.” I may have well missed it, but I don’t recall him calling her Sarah.
The tragedy of modern American politics is that so many in the public want some one like their own selves to be president. They vote who they want to have a beer with, not for the person with the experience, knowledge, and skills to navigate a complex world. And you would think after voting for “Have a beer with” Bush TWICE the public would yearn for an intellectually ELITE leader like Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Clinton, but nooooooooooo……
I want my president smarter than me, more literate than me, better diction than me, better educated than me, wiser than me. The Republican ticket fails miserably on those criteria.
was to say, “Say it ain’t so, Joe!” A line she fucked up so badly (pairing it with six other folksy things all at once that she hadn’t been able to squeeze into other answers) that she made a lot of people laugh out loud, for the wrong reasons.
Lame.
That was the only time she called him “Joe,” other times using “Senator” or “Senator Biden.” I think Biden always called her “the Governor,” but I can’t be certain.
There was no genuine warmth to using a personal name. It was aimed at stabbing him in the back and diverting attention away from the terrible legacy of Bush.
Unfortunately her zingers were totally scripted by the invisible hand of the Republican handlers and shows what a tool she would be by those who really control that party.
It just reinforces the narrative that nothing changes with the mavericks. Lobbyists will continue to write the legislation and the good old gal shtick will be even thicker than with Bush.
He used “it’s not the beginning of the end, it’s the end of the beginning” which was Churchill’s famous quote in WWII – after winning Tobruk I believe.
McCain delivered it poorly and I doubt many even got where it came from – he’s no Churchill.
The folksy schtick isn’t presidential, it’s mayoral, it may even be gubernatorial…but not presidential.
One question for “ya” though, parsing. You don’t like her calling Biden “Joe,” but what about Obama calling McCain “John?” He does it all the time, but McCain usually calls Barack “Senator Obama.”
Same body, same title.
Even though there are twice as many senators as governors, it is a higher office with greater prestige. Certainly there is a large difference in skillsets between California, and say, oh, Alaska.
The difference, of course, is that Biden and McCain have some respect for each other, but McCain absolutely hates Obama, and is always acting like a dick around him.
The Swamp
Seven.
Transcript at http://www.realclearpolitics.c…
Interestingly, the transcript doesn’t recognize “ya” or “betcha.” It changes them to you and bet you.