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September 23, 2008 03:26 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 109 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Do not run a campaign that would embarrass your mother.”

–Robert Byrd

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109 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread”

  1. The Democratic National Committee today updated the Count the Lies counter after CNN called John McCain’s false claim that Barack Obama has offered no plan for the financial crisis “misleading.”  In fact, not only has Senator Obama “voiced specific ideas about the bailout plan,” but McCain’s campaign has taken a “wait and see ” stance similar to Obama’s.

    This article is at least the 63rd fact check to debunk McCain campaign lies since he promised to run a respectful campaign in February.

    http://www.democrats.org/CountTheLies

    CNN:

    McCain Claim on Response to Economic Crisis “Misleading.”  “At a town hall meeting Monday, September 22, in Scranton, Pennsylvania, Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain hit his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, on the financial crisis. ‘Sen. Obama has declined to put forth a plan of his own,’ McCain said. ‘In a time of crisis, when leadership is needed, Sen. Obama has simply not provided it.’  The Facts: Obama has said several times since the recent Wall Street meltdown that, in meeting with top economists, he was encouraged to not roll out a specific plan for fear of overly politicizing work of the Congress on a government bailout of financial firms. He has, however, offered ideas for the plan — including limiting pay for executives of businesses that are bailed out by the government and making sure the effort includes a specific plan for the money to be repaid. Verdict: Misleading. Obama has voiced specific ideas about the bailout plan and McCain’s campaign has taken a ‘wait and see’ stance similar to Obama’s.”

    CNN, 9/22/08: http://politicalticker.blogs.c…

  2. THE MYTH: “[Governor Sarah Palin] took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay. And made a profit!” – John McCain, at a campaign stop in Wisconsin

    THE FACTS: No one bought the jet online. It was eventually sold through an aircraft broker – at a loss to taxpayers of nearly $600,000.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/po…

    1. Was the selling price $600,000 less than what it was bought for?  How long was it used, what model was it, was it bought new?  Brand new corporate jets run over $40M.  Depreciation of $600K on one would not be in any way outrageous.

        1. She might have saved money by not maintaining the plane, knowing she wasn’t going to use it.  That could be millions in depreciation, but a huge savings in maintenance that outweighs it.

          I’d be willing to bet that percentage-wise, the plane didn’t depreciate as much as the cars used by the meter maids in Anchorage, and that $600k was waaaaaaay less than the upkeep, staffing, and operation would have been.

          1. WHO CARES!? This is stupid, and has nothing to do with how she would govern.

            I feel like starting my own MoveOn.org so we can move on past this Palin stupidity.

            I wonder what Eli Pariser is doing these days…

            Oh wait, he might be slightly busy.

              1. It is relevant to talk about this–it pertains to her troubles with telling the truth. One more lie in a series of exaggerations or misspeaks. Call them what you like. I call them lies.

                1. We have plenty of evidence that Palin and McCain will both keep right on lying not just UNTIL they’re called on it but long after.  We will be dealing with the lies of the Bush administration for decades.  We don’t need to add four more years of lies to wade through. On the plus side this could be a full employment plan for future historians.  

                1. Asked for a jet that can carry 55 people.  She already had a jet.

                  I think the Jet in AK was for trips to the lower 48.  There are only 5 or 6 full airstrips (including military, I believe) that are 10000 feet up there.

      2. She didn’t sell it on eBay. PERIOD.

        She didn’t make a profit. PERIOD.

        Explain how McCain’s statements were anything other than totally false, and we’ll give you more attention.

  3. from Politico

    Speaking on the House floor earlier today, Democratic Rep. Brad Sherman of California warned Congress not to blindly approve the estimated $700 billion bailout plan, which he called “the most generous power grab a Wall Street executive has ever asked for.”

    From the other end of the political spectrum, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) warned today that the bailout could “make matters much worse by socializing an entire sector of the U.S. economy.”

    “Most Americans are paying their bills on time and investing responsibly and should not be forced to pay for the reckless actions of some on Wall Street, especially when no one can guarantee this will solve our current problems,” DeMint said. “This plan will not only cause our nation to fall off the debt cliff, it could send the value of the dollar into a free-fall as investors around the world question our ability to repay our debts.”

    Republican Rep. Mike Pence of Indiana issued a statement over the weekend acknowledging that the “markets are in turmoil” but arguing that “nationalizing every bad mortgage in America is not the answer.”

  4. from The Independent

    Up to 10,000 staff at the New York office of the bankrupt investment bank Lehman Brothers will share a bonus pool set aside for them that is worth $2.5bn (ВЈ1.4bn), Barclays Bank, which is buying the business, confirmed last night.

    So apparently the skill to make investments so bad it drives Lehman out of business – is worth 2.5 Billion in bonuses. I guess it is a rare skill to be that bad at your job…

    2. .

      those bonuses are being paid out of Barclay’s pocket.

      I’m not a Barclay’s shareholder.

      What I would find really objectionable,

      and what I’m pretty sure is in the offing,

      is for the federal government to bail out a firm,

      and then those who ran it into the ground getting bonuses out of the US Treasury.

      .  

      1. I could be wrong, but nontheless they will be allowed to be paid out and not seized as assets by the US government, since feds will be/are bailing them out they should own these assets.  However, it is the same difference in that they keep their obnoxious bonuses while we pay for their incompetence.

        Profits for uber rich/consequences and losses for the poor and middle class.  Kinda like a REAL IRONIC SUPER-EVIL ROBIN HOOD.

        How does Paulson not see this as wrong, I have no idea.

  5. from The Washington Post George Will starts with:

    Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

    And ends with:

    It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?

    And the part in between lays it out in detail. Remember – George Will is a conservative.

      1. Been a little out in the wilderness on McCain lately.

        Anecdotally, the R’s I talk to would vote for almost anyone before Obama.  He’s so different in so many ways than what we want that it makes even a guy like McCain an obvious choice in the General.

        And Palin helps a ton – the ‘spoonful of sugar’ to McCain’s medicine.

      2. Yep, McCain is seemingly thrashing in the ether. The call for Cox’s ouster was damaging insight into his thought process and his understanding of the current situation.

        So yes, some conservatives, those that follow the economy and business cycles, are dismayed.

  6. The right time is about a month to a month and half before the election.  Before that period anything can happen. (Well, anything can happen at any point) However, it is important that a majority of voters are looking at a candidate favorably at the right moment. And that moment is now.

    Obama has his momentum back.  But not the flashy, star appeal he has carried throughout the election.  He is now being seen as the calm, guiding leadership voice.  McCain is showing what all of us on the blog have known all along.  His temper and inability to remain calm would be his unhinging.

    What do I mean by that?  He over reacts to situations no matter how simple.  Calling his wife a trollop and cunt because she commented on his loss of hair, wanting to fire the SEC chair without an understanding of the entire situation.  Even his “Maverick” title is not a good thing when discussing the Presidency.  I want a President that calmly looks at a situation, polls his advisors and then makes an informed decision about the direction we will follow.

    The black and white picture of JFK and RFK discussing the Cuban Missile Crisis is one of my favorites.  The intensity of both men looking at each other and discussion all options and all consequences is how I see the most important office in the world.

    The POTUS and the decisions he /she makes effects the entire world.  The little boy in India and the King of Jordan are all affected by the POTUS ability to make an informed judgment. Not a rash, knee jerk reaction to an emotional situation.

    John McCain has throughout his life made decisions that have cost him dearly.

    As a vet, this next line is hard for me to say, but here goes.

    From what I understand the reason McCain was shot down was he went further than his orders told him to go.  He was a Maverick and it cost him five years of his life.  It may have also cost other soldiers and sailors lives.  I am not sure what his mission was; however, military combat is based on the fact that all units and personnel do what is expected and what is ordered.  That is how you come out alive.

    I could be wrong about this, but from what I understand McCain chose to go too far and risked an entire combat battalion in the process.

    I do not want someone putting my country, my family in harms way because he made a rash conclusion.  Over 4100 families have paid that price for a Maverick Bush Administration.  I will not use my vote to put a Maverick in office.

    1. I do understand how hard it is to write something like that. I’m glad you did. I’ve not heard very much complimentary about McCain’s military service, even by those of us who respect that he gave 5+ years of his life as a POW.

      1. As evidenced by the fact that he is the only presidential candidate now who has ever been censured by the Senate Ethics Committee.  He is another Dick Cheney when it comes to ethics.  I would like to review the reports of McCain’s activities which led to his losing his aircraft but I doubt it is public record so we’ll probably never know the truth for certain and have to leave it at that. Being a Vietnam era vet myself, I do know putting fellow service members in danger with a “maverick” disregard for life would have cost McCain dearly. Even if his daddy was an Admiral.  

      1. One of those jets wasn’t his fault. he was sitting in line on a carrier and some other doofus inadvertently fired a rocket that hit his jet. Several people died in the ensuing fire.

        The first 3: definitely his fault.

        The last 1: I’d never heard that story before. I wonder if or how it could be verified.

        1. How come no book about the truth of McCain’s military record?

          Sometimes I wish Democrats were as out-and-out evil and ruthless as their Republican counterparts. But then I come to my senses.

                1. because I think John McCain is behaving disrespectfully, you call me a piece of his turd.  You seem to think that you are the final arbitrator of what is fair or not.  

  7. Looks like CNN and AP are going to play the silly games Palin /McCain want to play.

    Crash and Burn, Baby.  Crash and Burn!

    NEW YORK – Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who has not held a press conference in nearly four weeks of campaigning, on Tuesday banned reporters from her first meetings with world leaders, allowing access only to photographers and a television crew.

    CNN, which was providing the television coverage for news organizations, decided to pull its TV crew, effectively denying Palin the high visibility she had sought.

    On the job training provided by the US Gov’t in a time of military and financial crisis…

    Palin planned to meet Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Colombian President Alvaro Uribe in New York on Tuesday as the United Nations General Assembly convenes this week. She also was expected to meet with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

    Those sessions and meetings scheduled for Wednesday are part of the Republican campaign’s effort to give Palin experience in foreign affairs. (WTF, I mean REALLY!!)She has never met a foreign head of state and first traveled outside North America just last year.

    The press is finally growing a pair!

    At least two news organizations, including The Associated Press, objected and were told that the decision was not subject to discussion.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…

    2. Every time she opens her mouth, McCain loses another 5 points.

      And the press gets another shot of testosterone.

      AND Obama raises another million.

      Just keep talking, Governor.

    1. This is just what the country needs right now.  A nasty bully and a short tempered ignoramus who shoots from the lip.  Domestic intimidation and international incident ops abound.

      1. A nasty bully and a short tempered ignoramus who shoots from the lip.

        Voting for McCain/Palin really is four more years of what we already have, isn’t it.  

  9. Who else gets a kick out of Al White’s campaign sun shades on his car?

    For those who haven’t seen it – there’s a sun shade for the back window saying “Al White for State Senate” but what cracks me up is the side window shade.  It looks like the window is open and Al is waving to everyone with a big ol’ grin on his face.

    Classic!

    2. Really FDR hopped on facebook to change his status to “is thinking up the New Deal” then he texted the brain trust to start burning the midnight oil.

      After that he blogged about how much the Depression “sucks” and then got back to the White House in time to catch the episode of Heroes he had recorded earlier that night on his TiVo.

      1. He doesn’t even know who was President during the Stock Market crash in 1929 and he’s using his knowledge of history to show me how he’s got the answers to what’s currently going on?

        It’s not the best I’ve got.  Not even close – you haven’t seen me dance yet…

                1. she seemed like she’d heard the phrase before, but didn’t really know any of the interpretations. Hence her response: “His world view?”

                  I’ll give you that Gibson screwed up as a journalist, and that it’s not intellectually honest.

                  No matter what interpretation you want to talk about, it’s a matter of US policy knowledge. And on that front, Biden has Palin’s number any day.

  11. That on or about 10/5 that Joe Biden will drop out of the VP race for “Health Reasons” and that Obama will be putting up Hillary in the spot?

    I know it is probably bullshit, but I have gotten this via email about a half dozen times in the last week and wanted to see what the bloggers here think about it.

        1. in 2007, and look what happened.

          Granted, it was her first try, and she did amazingly well up until Obama won in Iowa.

          If Obama loses, I can’t say what I’ll do in 2012, but Hillary would be my #1 choice.

                    2. A. Somebody having a bad day? Not sure how to break this to you but most people that reply to each other tend to have something to say about the subject at hand.

                      B. Piss off, killjoy scold.

                    3. I started this series by noting that Hillary would be just 68 if she ran in 2016–which implies an incumbent Obama is at least the nominee in 2012. So LB was on point to my response, though not to your codacil that she’d be 69 by election day.

                      What am I saying?  I HATE being peacemaker!

                  2. the good money is on either winning re-election.  Hard to see the future, and who knows what or when the next 9/11 will be, but the law of large numbers says in four years the economy is up and most troops are out of Iraq, no matter who gets elected.  Personal destruction is what it is, but when times are good it’s hard to make people care (See: soaring popularity of president Clinton amongst and after the Lewinsky affair/impeachment).

                    1. But an Obama win coupled with Worst Congress Evah will certainly energize R’s that might not have been too hot on McCain.

                      Plus, no matter who is elected, taxes will have to go up.  

                      Agreed, though, incumbents are in good shape.  Unless their name is Jimmy Carter.

    2. he wants me to help him get money out of the coutry.  All I have to do is send him $10K to pay for some fees and he’ll split millions with me.

      What do you think about that?

      1. .

        Dear American:

        I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

        I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

        I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

        This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

        Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

        Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson

        is this for reals, man ?

        .

        1. No one knows what lies ahead.  There may be a young Latina running for congress right now that catches the American imagination and both Hillary and Obama are both out.

          Hell, I may decide that after being polster of the week and having met at least three world leaders, had a passport since I was born, been on most continents, I am qualified to at least run for POTUS.

          2012, who the hell knows what lies ahead or what the country will need.

  12. McCain Aide’s Firm Was Paid by Freddie Mac

    One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain’s campaign manager from the end of 2005 through last month, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement. The disclosure contradicts a statement Sunday night by Mr. McCain that the campaign manager, Rick Davis, had no involvement with the company for the last several years.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09…

  14. Talked to a very nice woman who unfortunately is voting for McCain.  She likes Obama and really agrees with the things he says he will do, but there’s no way he’ll be able to do them, so she will vote for McCain, figuring he’ll do pretty much the same things Bush has done.

    Can anyone explain this to me?  I weep for our country.

    1. I can’t help you there.

      Realistically, perhaps this person hasn’t been affected by the realities of life under Shrub and does not pay close attention to world and national news.  Under those conditions, McCain represents “floating along,” with no regard to what exactly we’re floating in or what might be about to affect that environment.

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