Weekend Open Thread

“It’s time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers.”

–Ronald Reagan

69 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Barron X says:


    Ronald Reagan, not that steadfast a Conservative himself,

    questioning the Conservative credentials of George W. Bush.


  2. parsingreality says:

    ….you know something is in the wind.  Literally.  

    Please note, all you drill everywhere fans, even Pickens says we can’t drill our way out of this mess.


    Will the last oil men please turn on the lights?  The ones running on wind and solar.  

    • Danny the Red (hair) says:

      $1.2 trillion will build enough wind farms to replace the energy produced by NG.

      Then the NG is shifted to transportation.

      Sounds reasonable, but what does Pickens want from the government–doesn’t say.

      • parsingreality says:

        It’s who’s behind it.  Having that endorsement, as it were, takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of the oil bidniss (best Bush accent there.)

        The ones that keep saying we need to drill more, we can’t do wind and solar, and want to keep their exorbitant profits flowing.

        • Yokel says:

          My question is – Why can’t we do all three?  Hell, with oil prices the way they are, when you count the North Dakota fields, the sands and shales of the Rocky Mountain West, the North American continent will out-OPEC OPEC in 30 years.  And that’s just in hydrocarbons.

          And this guy’s being a little disingenuous.  I drove through West Texas and up through Eastern Colorado a couple weeks back, and there are windmills everywhere.  This ain’t exactly visionary.

          • Danny the Red (hair) says:

            He’s been in wind for years.

            He makes a couple of important points on why not all 3.   The most important being we will never drill enough to fill our cars.

            He is advocating a fundamental change in infrastructure.  He is also in favor of drilling–for NG.  He correctly points out that we’ve already reached peak oil.

            We are going to need the oil we have for plastics and other non energy uses.  I think 20% of oil goes to non energy uses.

            The reality is Shale will never be workable because of the water requirements.

            Tar sands are a bit of a faustian bargain, extraction is really bad for the environment.  I’m ok with it for now, but it is not a long term solution.

            I’m a fan of NG as long as local communitees,competing commercial interests and surface owners rights are considered in the extraction.  

            Pickens point is that we need to change the infrastructure and get us off of an oil based transportation system.

    • Client9FromOuterSpace says:

      T. Boone is doing this to enrich his own wallet.  IMO, he invested in a wind farm and is trying to find a way to profit from it. Nothing wrong with that, but that’s the story.

      When T. Boone is short oil, he says oil is in a bubble…when he’s long oil, it’s a supply/demand story.  When he speaks, he hopes other investors will follow his direction so that he can make money from the pop.

  3. parsingreality says:

    It appears now that we, the taxpayers of America, will be asked once again to rescue private enterprise.  This time around it is the mortgage twin giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  

    Let me add that being quasi-government bodies, they are supposed to have Congressional oversight.  Now, what party was in power during the E-Z Credit years????  Never mind, nothing here to see…

    I see also that the huge IndyMac bank chain has been taken over by the Feds.  Did I see Neil Bush scuttling out the back door?  I hope this isn’t a deja vu all over again of the late eighties. (The biggest ever example of private profits, public responsibility.)

    • BlueCat says:

      all those Main Street Republicans and Joe Six Packs who vote Republican because the Dems are “socialist” would realize one little thing.  The Republican right is all for socialism as long as it’s socialism for the ultra rich only. They are all for free markets only if it’s the rest of us, never them, who have to suffer the consequences of the risks they take.  

      When the little people find themselves in desperate trouble because of their shenanigans, they expect is to shut up, stop whining and continue to pay for the golden safety nets of the elite.  They make sure  we have no choice.  

      That’s what Phil Gramm really was saying with his “whining” remark and if McCain doesn’t see eye to eye with him, why did he choose him to be his top economic adviser?

      Gramm and friends believe in grabbing all the advantages of the free market for themselves and sticking the rest of us with all the risk and all the bills when they come due. And the hell of it is, all they have to do is throw out the same old saws about socialism, high taxes, gay marriage, liberal elitism, be afraid, soft on terror etc. to get the people they’re screwing to vote for them.

      No wonder the Republicans practically worship Reagan as a Saint.  No one was more successful at pushing this crap than he was. If it works again this election cycle, we’re clearly just a bunch of hopeless morons who NEVER learn.  

      • One Queer Dude says:

           Reagan really was responsible for instilling in people the idea that they could get something for nothing with his irresponsible tax cuts and humungous deficits in the ’80s which were immoral.  Someone aptly labeled it voodoo economics.  Hmmm, who was it who said that?  

          Then the grown ups (i.e., Daddy Bush and Bill Clinton) came in and had to fix the mess.

        • parsingreality says:

          I have a friend that sometimes refers to certain people and politics as “They get you to stab yourself and thank them at the same time.”

          That’s what Reagan and so many Pubs are geniuses at.  

        • Barron X says:


          Reagan really was responsible for instilling in people the idea that they could get something for nothing

          you have heard of Frank Roosevelt and Social Security, haven’t you ?  

          What is that, if not “something for nothing ?”


          • ThillyWabbit says:

            is not something for nothing.

            • Barron X says:


              and you change the subject to “Retirement insurance.”  

              Now, I’m making the numbers up, so sue me,

              but the average Social Security recipient receives back in monthly checks the full value of all of their contributions, plus compound interest,

              in a little over three years.  

              If they keep collecting after that point,

              and some do,

              they are getting “wealth transfer payments” from the current working poor.  

              That’s like “something for nothing.”  


              • BlueCat says:

                any sort of retirement investment program.  It was always a program whereby you pay in while you are working. That money supports people who have retired. When you retire   you, in turn, draw funds from the contributions of those who are working and paying in.  

                The fact that it isn’t an investment program is what makes it secure. Unlike investing in the stock market or a company  matching funds system, pension fund etc, you don’t lose it when things go to hell in a hand basket. It’s supposed to be there to make sure everybody has something after a life time of hard work no matter what.

                If you also have a nice private nest egg from your investments, good for you.  If you lose it all in a crash, you’ve still got something.  Drawing connections between the amount you put in and the amount you draw out simply isn’t and never has been relevant.  

                • ThillyWabbit says:

                  Retirement insurance. But if Republicans want to call old people freeloaders and oppose Social Security, I’m all for it. It goes well with them calling children freeloaders and opposing S-CHIP.

                  • Barron X says:


                    And where is your rebuttal to that Blue cat,

                    where she (?he?) says that Social Security really is “something for nothing ?”

                    The Cat explains that it is simply a Government-run pyramid scheme.  

                    Wealth is not created by the Social Security system.  

                    Wealth (“something”) is given to the retirees, after it is taken from the working class.  

                    While working, today’s retirees chipped in nominal amounts (comparatively “nothing”) for the far fewer folks that the system was supporting years ago.  

                    FREE MONEY!!  Free money from the Government!

                    Why don’t we vote ourselves more of that!


                    • BlueCat says:

                      of social security to remain solvent and the fear-mongering to young people about how it can’t possibly be there for them is a bunch  bald faced lies.  It’s been so “solvent” that, over the years, surpluses have been taken out and spent on other things.  It is still highly fixable, requiring adjustment to caps and a few other tweaks to remain  there for our young workers for the foreseeable future.  It is not at all something for nothing.  

                      The nation’s elite, who get bailed out whenever their schemes lead to disaster for the economy are the only ones getting not just something but the lion’s share of all the wealth we produce for nothing. They can do a lousy job, run their businesses, savings and loans etc into the ground and still be assured of spending the rest of their lives living like kings, getting new  ridiculously high paying jobs in which to fail some more, all at the tax payers expense.

                      That’s  Socialism for the rich and powerful, dog eat dog free market for the rest. The last thing in the world the Republican elite wants is a  free market that would penalize them for failing along with rewarding them for succeeding. They want a one way street with a fool proof safety net only for themselves.

                    • parsingreality says:
              • Yokel says:

                Even God the Franklin knew SS wouldn’t ever be a solvent program.  But he did it anyway because he felt he had to do something.

                • parsingreality says:

                  First, what is “solvent?”  If you mean never missing a payment for 73 years, and good to about 2040 without changes, I think that’s solvent.

                  Second, the program worked fine when there were 16 workers for every SS recipient.  Demographics have changed, and we have responded, mostly with RR working with the congress.  It’s time to tweak again, no doubt about it.  Remove the contributions cap and it’s good for nigh onto eternity.

                  Social Security is the world’s oldest and most successful anti-poverty program. Most nations are jealous at it’s success.  Not one scandal from those boring beaucrats in all those years, either.  

          • One Queer Dude says:

            …and it could be workable today, it just needs to adapt.  

              When the original retirement age was set at 65, the average life expectancy was something in the neighborhood of 62. Not so anymore.  Even thouh the retirement age has been raised slightly, life expectancy exceeds retirement age.  That’s not sustainable.

              And don’t even get me started on that cap on social security wages.  Raise that (or remove it entirely), and the system becomes flush with money very quickly.


    • Barron X says:


      or his golden parachute ?  

      considering the job he did, will he be returning his salary ?


  4. ClubTwitty says:

    From the Week Daily

    The American Family Association, which got an unintended result when it used an auto-replace filter to change “inappropriate” words such as “gay” in the news stories on its website. A story on American sprinter Tyson Gay was headlined, “Homosexual eases into 100 meter final at Olympic trials,” and repeatedly referred to him as “Tyson Homosexual.”

    PrideSource.com writes:

    – The problem? Tyson’s real last name is Gay. But OneNewsNow, a Christian news outlet, has an automated system that changes the forbidden “g” word to “homosexual”. The news site published the story about a world-class sprinter named “Tyson Homosexual” who qualified this week for the Beijing Olympics, on blog.WashingtonPost titled: “Christian Site’s Ban on ‘G’ Word Sends Homosexual to Olympics, July 1, 2008.

  5. davebarnes says:


    A good overview.

    Not enough detail, in my opinion.

    • Danny the Red (hair) says:

      For someone outside the state writing for a national audience I thought it was pretty detailed.

      I mean the Pols and Squarestate got a mention

    • DavidThi808 says:

      for example they talk about the “Both Ways Bob” label somehow coming out of this. The issue in that case was that Bob held every position on everything – it was a defect in tv candidate.

      They also talk to Caldera an Andrews who talk as though they are powerless to counter what comes out of tv liberal groups. The II was there first – they root problem is that the voters aren’t buying what they’re selling.

      And finally Pols as part of the left wing machine? Yes Haners, NEWSMAN, GOPStudent, etc are all liberals – wow, that’s a shocker.

      I think a lot of it is excuses for the fact that voters find the Democratic answers more compelling.

    • BlueCat says:

      stuff is hilarious.  Republicans have traditionally been the ones with the most money. With the rise of right wing talk radio and Fox, they have been the ones in control of the echo chamber and the swarm attack has long been a favorite tactic of theirs.  Guess they can dish it out but they can’t take it.

      The combination of liberal money and centrist candidates like the Salazars and Ritter, with the left uniting behind them with the rest of the party to win in a largely centrist state, is indeed a winning combination.  It can win more state legislature seats, House and Senate races here in Colorado and throughout the heartland.  

      In combination with internet muscle and all out voter registration drives it can also win Dems the presidency as long as, nationwide, we unite behind Obama the way Colorado Dems united behind our middle friendly candidates in 2004 and 2006.  The five Supreme Court Justices now over 70 make it especially imperative that we bury the Obama/HRC hatchet and join together to win.

      • ThillyWabbit says:

        has existed for decades and is far better funded. Richard Mellon Scaife, Sun Myung Moon, et.al. have pumped billions of dollars into the right wing.

        The fact is that their dog just won’t hunt anymore. They let their agenda become so narrow (anti-gay, anti-abortion, and anti-tax) that they forgot how to be pro-anything. Lately they’ve shifted into anti-immigrant, anti-labor, and anti-affirmative action, but they have yet to jump on the Republican bandwagon of pro-drilling.

        People have watched the right wing dismantle the progressive tax structure, eviscerate affirmative action, pass gay marriage ban after gay marriage ban, put the ten commandments in the classroom, pass every abortion ban that will withstand judicial scrutiny, and cancel science class. ВҐes their lives aren’t getting any better as a result.

  6. Oliver says:

    The Republicans cannot win on their record, their issues, their integrity so now they are resorting to lies and trying to confuse the voters.  

    But as long as McSame keeps putting out out his chief economic adviser to call Americans whiners, switching his position every week day, kicking out librarians from his ‘straight talk town halls,’ dissing vets and lying about his record, sweating though questions about his inconsistent viagra/birth control votes, missing his cues whenever he tries to attack-followed by his creepy laugh, he really is a lost cause.  

    Hey Republicans–its not too dispiriting voting for a losing candidate, hell I have been voting for them up until 2004 when Colorado Dems began romping all over your ass.  Everything heals with time, even your broken, black little hearts.  

  7. anya says:

    From the Rocky Mountain News 7/12/2008, a

    story about Republican Commissioner j. kevin mccasky denying that he did anything unethical, immoral, illegal, or against the American Way.

    Them people hain’t been bribed, that money jest happened to come from that there developer out of the blue.

    I’ve lost track of how many times the Jefferson County elected officials have had to deny naughty behavior. You’d think they would be getting tired of it by now, but not these folks, they’re indefatigable that way.

  8. Barron X says:


    When would either Bentley or Jeff have to drop out,

    and throw his support to the other,

    to still be able to shake up the race ?

    Is it too late now ?

    Give me a date, considering the mail-in voting.


  9. DavidThi808 says:

    from Think Progress we have “Bush Homeland Security Aide Caught On Tape Offering High-Level Access For Donations To Bush Library”

    The Sunday Times reports Stephen Payne, a Bush pioneer and a political appointee to the Homeland Security Advisory Council, was caught on tape offering access to key members of the Bush administration inner circle in exchange for “six-figure donations to the private library being set up to commemorate Bush’s presidency.”

  10. ColoradoPolitical says:

    Rasmussen Reports  now says that the Presidential race is dead even. Newsweek is reporting that Senator Obama has lost a 15 point lead and the race is now even. What happened to the landslide?  

    When Senator Obama tries to mimic President Kennedy at the Brandenburg Gate the American people will realize to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen this guy is no Jack Kennedy.  

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