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October 11, 2005 08:00 AM UTC

YES on C&D Slightly Ahead

  • 72 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Various polls now show ‘YES on C&D’ pulling slightly further ahead of ‘NO on C&D.’ The word is that YES is winning by 1-9 points, depending on the poll.

Those numbers, except for the high end, indicate that this is still near the margin of error and too close to call. However, we haven’t seen a number as high as 9 points in any of the polling lately, so there is some indication that the YES campaign is moving ahead.

No, we aren’t going to tell you who did these polls, and no, we didn’t just make this up.

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72 thoughts on “YES on C&D Slightly Ahead”

  2. I just got off the phone with John Andrews’ recorded voice.

    First, he asked me about eminent domain, then about supporting elections for judges (as if we don’t have enough to vote on!). 

    Then he said “would you support Ref C – the tax increase to rasie taxes by $4billion?”.

    Sponsored by Americans for Tax Reform.

    I know two other people that got the call last night — return number is 571-522-1180 (not even from Colorado).

    Can’t you guys fing any local vendors to push your lies?  Jon?

  5. Have any of you idiots seen polling data that people will allow to be released? If the pollsters wanted it released they’d do it themselves.

    Even if they did release who did the polls you guys would say that it wasn’t true. You’ll try to discredit everything you don’t agree with.

    Go Pols!

  6. No, the anti-government zealots are doing a major Push Polling thing, and they can’t even run it out of Colorado.

    See this at SoapBlox Colorado. 

    http://www.soapblox.net/colorado/showDiary.do?diaryId=432

    At least 8-10 of the readers have received Push Poll calls from “FECR” in Northern Virginia.  The number is (571) 522-1180.

    It’s bad enough that Caldara and his ilk get all their funding from out-of-state rich folks, but do they have to outsource their push polls to another state too?

  7. Colorado Pols gets more ridiculous by the day.  The fact is that the so-called polls could only come from the yes camp and if they had a poll showing them up by *9* points then I think  they’d make that public.

  8. The No on C&D ads are improving. My hunch is that the NO folks are keeping their powder dry for the final push during the next few weeks, recognizing that early voting begins soon.

    People experienced with state referenda seem to think the early polls don’t matter much, because decisions are made at the last moment.

    Hank Brown is proving he’s no longer a conservative Republican, just another university president who’s more worried about raising money for his school than about what’s best for Colorado. Shows, I guess, that a hack politician can be a hack academic.

  9. Shows how much you know about politics and polling. There are a lot of organizations that do polling, and a lot more that throw one or two questions into another poll at the personal request of someone. It isn’t just the yes and no camps that are polling on this. Pols could very well be getting numbers from a poll on water issues that happened to throw in one or two questions on C&D. Don’t throw stones if you have no idea how this stuff works.

  10. As someone who is pro C and D I am happy to hear they are doing well in the polls, but as someone who worked in the polling industry I wonder how reliable these polls are.

    1) Are they using all Coloradans, registered voters, likely voters for Presidential election, or likely voters for off year election? 

    2) What is there sample size, and thus what is the margin of error?

    The polling is only useful if the voters on Election Day are similar to the group surveyed in the polls.  The passage of C and D is going to depend on more than anything turnout and ensuring that the supporters of C and D get out and vote.

  11. Since undecided voters break 4-1 against ballot initiatives*, isn’t it a little premature to say that C & D are ahead?

    For example, lets say the most recent poll put support at 48%, with 44% against and 8% undecided. 20% of 8 isn’t the 2% that C and D need to get to 50%+1 (its actually 1.6%, which would make the final tally 49.6-50.4; a statistical tie).

    Wouldn’t it be more HONEST to say that C and D are STATISTICALLY tied?

    See Mile High Delphi for a detailed look at how we got this breakdown.

  12. Matrow, I’ve heard the conventional wisdom about ballot initiatives. However, I would think the undecideds would be a lot more likely to stay home than go wait in line in this off-year election.

    The phenomenon you’re talking about would be similar to Ref. A in the 2004 election. Many undecideds showed up at the polls to vote for President/Senator/etc. and voted on Ref. A while they were there. This year, those undecideds will not show. Frankly, I’m not sure who is helped more by that.

    Back to the numbers Colo Pols is reporting. I admit I don’t fully understand the issues, but why not reveal the source? Who’s the victim?

  13. Matt,

    Referendum A was defeated in 2003, not last year. It, like Referendums C and D, was a multi-billion dollar blank check. C and D should also be defeated.

  14. “For example, lets say the most recent poll put support at 48%, with 44% against and 8% undecided. 20% of 8 isn’t the 2% that C and D need to get to 50%+1 (its actually 1.6%, which would make the final tally 49.6-50.4; a statistical tie).”

    Okie-dokie. Whatever he said.

  16. I am a huge Ref. C and D supporter but I question the decision on your part to post a poll  with the logic of “believe us because we tell you to believe us.”  First, you still hide behind anonymous names. Second, If you want to be respected as a source of Colorado political news you have a responsibility to give us the source of your information.  The polls you speak of credibilty depends wholly on who ran the poll, what questions were asked, and what was the margin of error.

    I would speculate that your “source” is the Yes campaign which is fine BUT you need to let us know.

  17. OK I’m confused… I just voted. My ballot came in the mail today and since my mind is pretty made up, I voted.

    Everyone keeps talking about early voting, how “undecideds would be a lot more likely to stay home than go wait in line” and “when things get rolling”, but uh… Isn’t this a mail in vote? As in no lines to wait in, no early voting, no polling places?

    If my ballot dropped today here in Douglas, aren’t they all dropping now as well?

    Hence, if the YES crowd has the better ads running… Get off your ass Caldera!!!! (Although I really like the one with the lovely Anna Bartha in it and think it has the best message.)

  18. Is votenoitsyourdough.com really done by supporters of Anrews/Caldara? I’ve heard it, I dont buy it but I figured if I could find anyone who knew, it would be in here.

  19. Is votenoitsyourdough.com really done by supporters of Anrews/Caldara? I’ve heard it, I dont buy it but I figured if I could find anyone who knew, it would be in here.

  20. Is votenoitsyourdough.com really done by supporters of Anrews/Caldara? I’ve heard it, I dont buy it but I figured if I could find anyone who knew, it would be in here.

  21. Is votenoitsyourdough.com really done by supporters of Anrews/Caldara? I’ve heard it, I dont buy it but I figured if I could find anyone who knew, it would be in here.

  22. TK – Yeah.

    DougCo – Pretty sure you’re right… People are voting today… Just depends on when the individual counties actually drop the ballots.

  24. I just got a call from a “research” organization. The caller did not speak clearly, so I didn’t pickup on the name of the company he gave me. He asked if I work for a political party or the news media before asking:

    First question. Do you feel things in Colorado are going well or are off track?

    After giving it some thought, I said, “off track.” I was thinking that if C&D passes, things are sure off track.

    Then he asks, “Can you think of a statewide initiative that you can support?” I replied, “That is a poorly written question. I don’t think you’re a professional polling company.” And I hung up.

    So if the polls Colorado Pols is citing are as biased and leading as this one, I don’t think we know how this election will turn out. I probably should have played along, but I hate dishonesty in politics.

    Don

  25. Dougco-
    Several counties are doing mail-ballot elections, but several others are not.

    Denver, El Paso, Pueblo, Broomfield and few other Counties are doing traditional precinct elections on election day which means they will aslo have early voting available the two weeks prior to the election.

    Larimer, Weld, Otero and Adams Counties are doing the vote center model on election day. Much of the rest of state though ar doing mail-ballot elections.

    And poor Pueblo City has to hold two elections one on Nov 1st and one on Nov. 8th because the differences in language in the state constitution vs. their city charter. The TABOR amendment requires the state election to be te 1st Monday on Novemebr (1 Nov this year) and the Pueblo city charter puts the city election on the Monday following the first Tuesday (the date used my most of the rest of the country, and by Colorado prior to the TABOR amendment) which is 8 Nov. this year.

  26. I have recently gotten several calls to my voicemail where there is a recorded message saying something to the effect of “you were called by a political polling firm, we will try you again in the near future.” Since they seem to be calling the number that goes directly to the voicemail, I have no idea who it is that is calling.

  27. Dan,

    Grover Norquist and his out-of-state rich guys are  running push-poll robo ads. 

    Also,  Colorado Club for Growth have at least one billboard that has popped up.  I’m guessing that sign got paid for by the same type of handiwork Norquist, DeLay, Abramoff, and that ilk get their fund.

  28. The Denver Post’s David Harsanyl mocks C& D supporters, especially the Republicans.

    Tet, we’re supposed to believe the Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights was a failure?

    You could, I suppose, buy into this notion if, like Democratic legislators Andrew Romanoff and Joan Fitz-Gerald, you believe a $2.5 trillion federal budget and $15 billion state budget means government is starving.

    Why, even a typically clearheaded leader such as Denver Catholic Archbishop Charles Chaput has come out in favor of C and D. (Incidentally, why is it that when the church sides with the left, there’s no talk of a theocracy? I guess nothing brings the powerful together like stiffing the middle class.)

    Curiously, it’s been Republican supporters of C and D who have turned their backs on their constituents. They’ve employed scare-mongering, personal attacks and truth-twisting. But hey, that’s your run-of-the-mill

  30. delighted to see you are accepting The Denver Post as the final arbiter of the C and D debate, Donald!  Yes on C and D is their position.  It’s also the position of the Rocky Mountain News.  Even the Colorado Springs Gazette.  In fact, every single newspaper in Colorado that has editorialized on the subject has endorsed C and D.  Glad you’re finally getting on board.

  31. Voyageur,
    I’ve opposed C&D on this forum and elsewhere since the legislature decided to put them on the ballot. The Denver Post and other papers are like the chambers of commerce, they have never seen taxes on small businesses and the middle class that they didn’t like and support.

    C&D have corrupted our GOP governor, a former GOP senator, some of the GOP establishment who’ve been sucked in by academics and the left and, of course, the self-serving unions and academics who see nothing but dollars for themselves in C&D.

    Take a look at the stories and columns in the papers outlining the need for state funding of marketing campaigns for tourism, economic development, new roads, new schools and more money for the state’s colleges and universities.

    The message is the same: Lobbyists and special interests already have written bills that will spend two or three times much money as C&D would make availabe to spendthrift legislators and governors.

    If you back C&D, you probably work for the government and have little understanding of politics or economics. Typical.

    Don

  32. Lebowski–I believe the Ref. A that Colvin was talking about was the one on the 2004 ballot.  There was a Ref. A on that ballot as well, dealing with Civil Service.  Not until this last leg. session was the law changed to proceed with the next letter.  Before that, they were always Ref. A or B, C, etc. year after year.  They changed this law because Ref. A in ’04 was a no-brainer yes, but people still assumed it was the water referendum and voted no.

  34. wrongrefA, you are correct in my assumption. I know that the 2004 Ref. A was at least partially poisoned by they associated it with the “Water Grab” referendum.

    Another reason it lost is due to Matrow’s point–when in doubt about a Referendum, people mostly vote no. My point was that many people in doubt about Ref C & D will not vote at all, because there is very little else on the ballot that interests them enough to actually go out and vote (unlike 2004, which was obviously a major election).

    So, those voting on this issue will have relatively strong feelings about it (I can’t think of any other major issues this election). If I am right, which side does that favor?

  35. The only time I ever worked for “the government” was when I was in the Army, Don, and somehow I doubt that you ever made a similar service to your country (it didn’t pay very well, after all, and you seem obsessed with money to the exclusion of all other values.)  But I have to laugh at your tirade that the newspapers are all totally unreliable except for the one teeny exception of a column by the rare writer who shares your far-right perspective.

  36. Don,

    I don’t work for the government and something makes me think that I have much better grasp on politcal and economic issues than you.  I understand that we must make wise investments to achieve appropriate future returns.  Starving higher education is one investment that we cannot ignore.  Businesses will not come to Colorado if they can’t get an educated workforce and they will have trouble finding workers that want to work in a state where their children will not have the educational opportunity that they would have in other states.  That is simple economics for you.

    Don attacks anyone that doesn’t agree with him and his obviously superior intellect.

  37. Donald,

    The NO folks are keeping their powder dry?

    What a brilliant strategy.  I sent my mail-in ballot YESTERDAY.  Half Colorado’s counties are conducting their mail elections RIGHT NOW.

    The loony NO ads may improve, but the time for that was last week.  But I am very impressed by the dry powder.

  38. I think the No ads are great — for the Yes side. If you want better schools for your kids, you’re a pig!  If you want better roads, you’re a pig!  If you want to help seniors, you’re a pig!
    I’m Marc Holtzman and my daddy paid for this ad.

  40. To those of you who think that the yes campaign would certainly tout their numbers if they were ahead, you obviously don’t have a real knowledge of politics. There would be no benefit to doing that because it could make people less likely to vote if they think the election is in the bag. You release good poll numbers if you are a campaign looking for money and endorsements, and the yes campaign doesn’t need either.

    Get a clue.

  41. Can we stop with “get a clue?”  It does nothing constructive, and until your post had been the private catch phrase of the right-wing crowd here.

    I find it fascinating the box that Donald and others are willingly painting themselves into such a corner here.  A little corner where the “real” Republicans live.

    It’s as if Referenda C & D were some evil animate force, because apparently these demon-possessed ballot initiatives have led once-proud Governor Owens astray, corrupted a former GOP Senator and much of the GOP establishment, hoodwinked a lot of conservative newspaper editors and Republican County Chairs, and ruined Hank Brown’s mind.

    I had no idea this “C & D” thing was so powerful.  Better get out of its way before it corrupts you too!

    And finally, I agree with the criticism of this topic.  I am eager to believe that C & D are polling well now, but citing unnammed sources and unreleased polls is simply shoddy journalism.

  42. voyageur:

    Wanting better schools doesn’t make you a pig.

    Thinking that those who would rather schools spend money more wisely are against better schools makes you willfully blind.

    Thinking that spending more money on K-12 education than we already do will make better schools makes you an idiot.

  44. Think for a moment,

    “Thinking that spending more money on K-12 education than we already do will make better schools makes you an idiot.”

    Ah, this is why I love this blog.  The scintillating dialogue, the friendly back-and-forth, and the scholarly debate.  You do your nickname proud.

  45. “Think for a moment” is the perfect name for a raving right-wing fruitcake who couldn’t think for more than 60 seconds if his life depended on it!  Keep up the insults, counterproductive boy, they will only swell our margin of victory.

  46. Why haven’t I heard of these polls on TV, radio, or newspapers? The media is usually in lockstep with any tax/spending increase or bigger government proposal.

    They’re usually more than happy to trumpet these good poll results. I don’t think support for C or D is as solid as supporters want the public to believe.

  47. What fascinates me is how angry and shallow the pro C&D crowd sound and look. Angry because you have a shallow argument?

    The facts are that the scare  stories being spouted by Owens and Brown are just that, scare stories with no basis in facts.

    If C&D fail, schools won’t close nor falter, college tuition won’t go up any faster or slower than if the initiatives were passed and roads and bridges still would carry our traffic with no more problems. Remember, every study ever done has shown that expanding roads expands traffic jams. So building more roads is not the answer to our traffic problems. We don’t need D and will be better off if it fails.

    The beauty of TABOR is that it forces politicians to set priorities instead of spending money on every project presented to the legislature. And the tragedies of C&D is that they allow spendthrift politicians to use taxpayers’ money to buy votes.

    For some reason, proponents of C&D think they are critical to attracting new employers and residents. But they won’t solve the problem.

    Why aren’t people moving to Colorado? First, they are, albiet not as many as 10 or 13 years ago. Second, why would anyone want to move a business or family to a state that:

    1. Is thousands of miles from suppliers, customers, families and friends? Geography won’t be overcome by spending C & D money to attract more businesses.

    2. Has some of the most expensive housing in the country? We’ve spent the last six months house shopping, and I can tell you prices are much higher and unreasonable than they were when we were in the market only two years ago. The bubble is about to burst here and nationally, because a buyer’s strike is starting to take hold.

    3. Offers ski vacations to tourists that are expensive any way you look at it, and makes the mountains unaffordable for many Front Ranger residents?

    4. Has high property taxes on businesses, making the operation of factories costly? That we’re thousands of miles from suppliers of raw materials makes Colorado a difficult sell to employers who might move here.

    5. Is dominated by religious extremists who have a knack for screwing up our schools and fostering religious discrimination?

    I could go on, but the point is that C&D wouldn’t improve our schools, attract new employers or make Colorado more attractive to tourists. Nor would C&D make this state a better place to live.

    The fact is that by increasing taxes by $3 billion to $5 billion, C&D would slow economic growth, making it harder for families to send their kids to college and denying them the opportunities to obtain higher education that the proponents of the tax increases have enjoyed.

  48. Donald,

    CSU’s tuition went up 30 percent THIS semester, the economy didn’t grow 30 percent and I doubt the students going to CSU income didn’t go up 30 percent so how do you explain the disconnect.  Tuition is due to go up another 45 percent next year if C and D doesn’t pass, so now according to your logic I guess our economy should grow 45 percent to make the difference up so those families that you claim to care about won’t be affected if C and D doesn’t pass.  I’m not making this stuff up; this is Hank Brown which you guys love to slander now that he is just telling the truth.  Wake up Donald, if C and D doesn’t pass and the cuts come next year are you going to eat crow, somehow I doubt it, you will just blame government for everything that is wrong in the world like you always do.  Those that want to move Colorado forward are going to vote yes on C and D.  I won’t be counting Donald into that group.

  50. Donald,

    Do you think that the sharp increase in energy prices will affect the housing market anywhere nearly as strongly as it’s affecting the auto market?  Values of large SUVS and other large vehicles are dropping, and there is a glut on the market of such vehicles.  Values of large and energy inefficient houses might stagnate or drop first.

    Of course, energy consumption is a much smaller proportion of the carrying cost of a house relative to its cost than for cars, houses can be somewhat retrofitted to reduce energy consumption, and there are many more reasons for buying housing, such as proximity to employment, recreation, entertainment, and amenities, access to good public schools, and space for sheltered living.

    In the information economy, we were the center of the cable television industry.  Broomfield-Boulder-Longmont has the highest concentration of software engineers in the country, and Longmont is one of the world’s centers of data storage R&D.

    Proximity to sources of raw materials is less of a factor for high value-added manufacturing.

    Colorado is still a desirable destination for travelers because of our recreation opportunities.  Colorado is still a relative bargain to most of California and east coast population centers.

    I agree that Ref. C&D is just a huge tax grab, and the TABOR limits on growth of government help our economy in times of economic growth to be at or near the top in the country.

    Tuition will continue to increase significantly with or without Ref. C&D because of the nature of the higher education market.  Even if one considers higher education a public good, we are currently subsidizing the most those residents most likely to move out of Colorado upon graduation, and least assisting those the most likely to remain in Colorado.

  51. Donald:

    As a religious “zealot” I’m insulted by the fact that you come off as a level-headed right winger like me, yet you cast aspersions on religious people (I assume evengelicals). Why do that? Don’t you relize conservative die more often from friendly fire than from the looney left??

    RWRZ

  52. Don,

    It’s good to see you posting your drivel here where you can do no harm.  As for me, well, I’m out there fighting for C&D, explaining it to people in terms of “investment in the future”, getting the vote out, etc.

    Please, stay here in this mini chat room and entertain us with your Fantasy-Island conservative nonsense.  Seeing just how far the shrill right wing of the Republican Party has fallen does my heart good

  53. Donald,

    What fascinates me is how angry and shallow the pro C&D crowd sound and look.

    Try to stick with facts and issues.  Your crowd watching is uninteresting.

  54. Interesting that there are so many “negative” comments here.  I guess these folks would be happier living in Mississippi.  What, 47th in the Union isn’t low enough?

  55. The tuition question is a bit perplexing. Yes, tuition is soaring all over the country, not just in Colorado. Is it because the socialists who run universities really are capitalists?

    To me, the big question is whether Hank Brown, the former conservative, has the business sense to find ways to cut costs enough to limit tuition increases. Seems like a simple task, but Brown, being a former conservative, may now be thinking like a liberal academic. And so no relief will be in sight for college students regardless of what happens to C.

    And I have to wonder whether CU has been raising tuition to pave the way for advocating the approval of C? Wouldn’t put it past them. Also, if only a small percentage of the tax increase allowed by C would go to CU and other state schools, how is C the answer to soaring tuition?

    Finally, how many noticed Vincent Carroll’s lame defense of C in his on-point column today? He uses state employees as sources to confirm his opinion that C is only a  time out from TABOR.

    Give me a break, Vincent. You’re talking to people with conflicts of interest. They’re as credible as the C blue book, which no one should believe when it comes to economic opinions.

    P.S. I don’t mean to offend evangelicals or others with strong religious views, but I’m in the habit of calling it like I see it. And there have been stories about how Utah’s strong religious values have turned away employers and could do the same for Colorado, like it or not. That’s what I had in mind when I wrote the item, and I may have expressed myself more inartfully than usual.

  56. Donald,

    the socialists who run universities

    I’m interested in this quip.  What’s your definition of a Socialist, and which Socialists in particular are leaders of American Universities?  Is Republican Hank Brown also a Socialist?

  57. Question: Does Referendum C end TABOR’s “ratchet effect?”

    Answer: No, but it does set a low point beyond which we can’t shrink.

    If Referendum C passes, TABOR rebates are suspended for 5 years.  Whatever the biggest budget is during those five years becomes the new baseline used to calculate the sixth year’s budget.  The year 6 budget uses the same TABOR formula of population growth + inflation over the baseline to limit spending, so we’re back to exactly what happens today.

    The one difference is that the biggest budget of the five years–the new year 6 baseline–now represents a *minimum* baseline as well.  So if a recession happens in year 6 that shrinks our tax revenues, the 5-year baseline is still used for year 7’s budget.  Obviously if tax revenues drop, we can’t spend what we don’t have.  But the baseline remains in effect for calculating the budget limits.  It’s as if revenue years below the 5-year baseline don’t count.

    So the ratchet mechanics are still there.  The state budget can still shrink, but not below the 5-year baseline set while Referendum C is in effect.  The ratchet just can’t close as far.

    If you acknowledge inflation and population growth as a fact of life, this is reasonable.  We can grow, grow, grow for ten years, then shrink, shrink, shrink for several too, just not below the new baseline.

    But if you think the goal of TABOR is to shrink government each year until it no longer exists, while our population continues to grow, then I acknowledge you may have a problem with how Referendum C alters the ratchet effect.

    –

    (I’ve just gotten off the phone with Rob at the Independence Institute and Robin at the Bell Policy Center.  I asked them the simple question above and kept silent while they answered, and followed up only for clarification.  While their spin was different, they both agreed on these facts.  I’m confident this represents the intent of Referendum C.)

  59. I meant i’m for fixing TABOR, but not with C.

    Someone asked whether I think high energy prices will tank housing costs? Indirectly, because people are worried about the economy, the stock market and their jobs. And they’re realizing housing prices are ridiculously high and are likely to fall. Nobody wants to be the last to pay top dollar, not when prices are likely to fall 15% to 30% during the next couple of years.

  60. beaupreznit,

    Who is Rob at the Independence Institute? Are you sure you have the right name? … I’m inclined to disbelieve your story because none of the Institute’s employees or experts on fiscal issues are named Rob.

    I thought I’d add my two cents to this long discussion – somebody earlier made the blunt, inartful point that believing more money going to K-12 education would yield better results makes someone an idiot.

    Discourtesy and poor rhetorical strategies aside, his point is essentially correct. I beg someone to logically refute the following facts:

    1. Colorado spends more per pupil in real dollars on K-12 education now than ever before. In fact, Colorado’s per-pupil spending was at an all-time high right BEFORE Amendment 23 was passed… and has reached an all-time high each year thereafter.
    2. Colorado spends less than 58 percent of education dollars in the classroom. (Maybe it’s how we are spending the money, not how much….)
    3. From 1992 to 2003, Colorado significantly improved its ranking on national test scores while its national ranking in per-pupil spending went down.
    4. The reason Colorado’s ranking went down is because our per-pupil spending increases weren’t as big as the national average.

    My goal for listing these surprising facts (of which there are many more) and the following discussion is to make some people read and think about a different point of view.

    Maybe, just maybe, people who are opposed to unending spending increases for K-12 education care just as much as you about kids and schools. Maybe they believe in a sort of “tough love” that asks for school leaders to consider new, more effective ways of getting things done rather than just holding their hands out.

    After all, public education’s central mission is to educate each child in the system to his or her fullest potential, not to provide jobs to adult teachers or administrators. Whose interests should we be looking out for first?

    Maybe the teachers union isn’t evil, just misguided because many of its interests collide with what is best for students. Maybe educrats aren’t evil, just that the vast majority are so focused on protecting the status quo and their own interests that the only fault they can ever see is that there isn’t enough money – never enough. And maybe opposing their agenda from time to time doesn’t make you an enemy of education or someone who hates kids and/or teachers.

    My proposal is to remold the public education system with constructive incentives that promote its central mission, maximizing the investments of taxpayers for the good of society. Education tax credits, charter schools, meaningful reforms of pay-for-performance and tenure, in tandem with streamlined and effective accountability measures – these point the way toward a better system. Continuing to feed the system with more & more money without promoting such reforms is not compassionate but naive.

    Education funding and reform aren’t the only things to consider when voting for C & D – vote how you will – but those spreading the scare tactics about schools ought to be ashamed of themselves. Anyone interested in a constructive dialogue on this topic can comment here or send me an email.

  61. Must have been Rob Corry, the “free speech” lawyer at the II who persecutes professors with his bat-faced wife while he hushes up stories about his conviction for POINTING A SHOTGUN AT A CROWD OF PEOPLE in the middle of downtown Washington DC. Look it up.

  62. You’re wrong, Beaupreznit.  Indy Institute
    doesn’t know anything about this issue and I suspect Bell misunderstood your question or you misunderstood their answer _though to be frank, they are weak on the details also.  I talk to Office of State Budget and Planning.

    Actual language of the referendum C refers to the “excess revenue cap” as “An amount that is equal to the highest total state revenues for a fiscal year from the period of the 2005-06 fiscal year through the 2009-10 fiscal year, adjusted EACH SUBSEQUENT FISCAL YEAR for inflation and the percentage change in state population, plus $100 million (if Ref D passes) and adjusting such sum for the qualification or disqualification of enterprises and debt service changes.”

    Beginning in 2011, the ratchet is gone and whatever the highest year was in the five-years preceding is adjusting each subsequent year to reflect changes in inflation and consumer price index.  So even if revenue falls in 2015, the next year’s revenue cap goes up (or down) with changes in the CPI and population.
    You admittedly could have a drop in 2010 that would cause you to revert to the 2009 base as your ceiling, if you want to call that a ratchet, but basically, the ratchet is gone if C passes.
    As to Don’s reference to Amendment 23 and Gallagher, neither is affected one way or another by C.  The last attempt to fix Gallagher failed 4-1!  And Don’s claim that CSU and CU raised tuition by 30 percent each this year as a ploy to force approval of C and D is beneath contempt even for his feeble and conspiratorial mind. A $170 cut in general fund support for higher education was the reason.

  63. Obviously, above post should have said $170 MILLION cut.
    as to I Know’s slam at Jessica Corry as “Bat Faced,” that’s the kind of mindless sexism that only turns off voters.  I know the lady well and she is both smart and comely, — albeit, by age and temperment, Hillary Clinton is more my type both intellectually and physically. If it was Rob Corry, it explains why Beaupreznit got bad advice.  Corry is the lawyer for the merry-wanna crowd and methinks his interest in that subject is not wholly confined to the legal aspects.  Like we said in the Army, smoke ’em if you got ’em.

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