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March 04, 2013 06:04 AM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 23 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

"A technical objection is the first refuge of a scoundrel."

–Heywood Broun

Comments

23 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread

  1. It is very important not to rewrite history with opinion.  I will repeat the 1968 election can NOT be discussed without also including the fact that RFK, a sitting Senator and a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination, was assassinated.  No one can say that RFK would not have won the nomination or that he would have won the nomination, because he was killed before the nominating process was finished.  He was OUT of the race due to assassination. No on can talk about 1968 and the Humphrey nomination or the reemergence of Nixon and "forget" to mention the assassination.  I will not let you reduce the assassinations of the 1960s to mere media events or somehow personal passionate recollections of the old. The assassinations of the 1960s, all three of them…JFK, MLK, and RFK, were the greatest threats to our constitutional government since the Civil War. The assassination of MLK attempted to stop the civil rights efforts, intimidate Blacks, and leave them leadersless. It was a direct attack on the First Amendment.The assassinations of JFK and RFK replaced the ballot with the bullet.  

    Today, there may be fools riding around the Capital, whose members may include those who claim the right to do that, today.  You all think that is okay?

    As for the stupidity of the person below.  The Oregon primary was not the same night as the California primary, I am almost positive.  The Oregon primary was the very first one in which a Kennedy lost and RFK was alive to know that.  The New Mexico primary was the same night and we defeated the "democratic Montoya machine," with a very carefully planned strategy.  I do not know what would have happened at the convention if Kennedy had lived, but NO ONE else does, because KENNEDY DIED BEFORE THE CONVENTION.  Comprende?  

    To assert the ability to do "objective analysis" on something that never happened or to claim the abillity to "objectively analyze" events by selectively leaving out any event that would influence the analysis is stupid and not to be tolerated I won't. 

    @Republican36

    I was in college when RFK was assassinated but he would have never won the nomination in Chicago that year.

    1. I was responding to the assinine comment by Republican 36  that is quoted below and it may appear that I was making the statement.  I still don't have the new format 

      down pat.  It R36's who said RFK would never have won the nomination.

      He or she doesn't know that.

       

      @Republican36

      I was in college when RFK was assassinated but he would have never won the nomination in Chicago that year.

      1. Oh for the love of God, Dwyer, what on earth is the point? Rep36's analysis is a lot less assinine than your personalization and emoting all over the place and in both instances there is no absolute line possible between any "what if" and any sure outcome. While it's valid to discuss what we think may or may not have been likely  under altered circumstances, it's silly to toss such insults over whose speculation is "wrong".

        What might have been is forever unknowable.  I also don't recall 36 or anyone else saying anything as stupid as that the assassinations of the 60s had no effect on anything. 

        There is also very little similarity between the GOP of those days and the GOP of today or between the positions and circumstances in which that very different past party and today's find themselves.  And your habit of claiming those who weren't around at a particular time can't possibly know anything about anything is infuriating.  Surely you've heard of history and historians?  Or should we just not bother? When the last person who remembers an event dies should we just say  that there's no point in discussing it because no one is entitled to anymore?

        And pardon me if I'm mis-remembering but aren't you also the one who once claimed that Rachel Maddow had little credibility on issues of women's reproductive rights because she's a lesbian and therefore doesn't have to personally worry about family planning, a statement that makes so little sense on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin? Concern for all humanity? Rape if you insist on personal concerns as the only relevant ones? 

        If that wasn't you I apologize but of course we all are capable of having informed opinions about things outside of our small world of personal experience and personal circumstances and we are all equally capable of being entirely wrong on any given issue despite a personal connection. Sometimes, in fact, the emotions connected with personal experience obscure objectivity to the extent of making us less likely to be able to see things clearly.  

         

    2. We CAN skip RFK's assassination when the topic was whether the GOP was dead following Goldwater's defeat or not. While the history IS that Nixon won and revitalized the party's fortunes, his election was not necessary to do so because the party was not in fact dead. While the assassinations were key to bringing about this course of events, it can be reasonably argued that the GOP would have come back in the 70s anyway.

      THAT is the point of the discussion.

      Anyway, if you and others want to argue about whether or not RFK would have been nominated in 1968, and whether or not he would have defeated Nixon in the general, you need to do it with the understanding that that's completely beside the point.

      But I will add this. The 1968 primaries can be looked up here. Y'all might as well have the facts at your fingertips.

      1. From your citation, Ari.

        "Robert Kennedy's death altered the dynamics of the race, and threw the Democratic Party into disarray."

        @little rp36

        The Oregon primary was May 28th, prior to the June California primary.

        Now, I don't care what you need to analyze about the republican party or who won in 1968, I just want to make sure that the RKF assassination is noted in that context. It was not originally.  Now, it has been.

  2. I took a rather lengthy poll last night.  It was a bit different and I had to conclude it was primarily one for or to influence the Governor on guns.  One early question I thought strange – was I fairly happy or fairly unhappy with the job the Gov was doing?  Those were my only two options.  (I may be a bit off on the exact wording but I'm close.). 

    It was a direct call and not a robo call for which I give someone creds.  Anyone else get polled?

    1. Not me, but then again I don't answer calls from numbers I don't recognize. (Not that I got a such a call last night…)

      Anyway, I'm curious as to why you think that question strange. I suppose it might come across that way in the context of the other questions asked, but it seems simple enough. I would answer fairly satisfied (that's a better word than happy). I hate the way he's handling fracking and O&G development in general, but he's saying and doing the right thing on most issues.

      1. Maybe I should have said the poll was different (instead of strange).  Generally in a poll you get more than two options on your satisfaction, approval or agreement type questions.  For the most part there was little or no room to express a gray area or indicate "not sure" or "don't know" or something in between.  As it happens I have firm beliefs on the gun bills currently before the legislature but I can see where the way a few were worded could have influenced the answer, i.e. gun manufacturers leaving the state.  The caller gave pros/cons on each and on one con I mumbled that's b—s— and she giggled then said "but I have to read the whole thing."  All in all the poll was quite entertaining.

    1. Hey – you know what economists say about the things cannot continue forever?  They stop.

       

      CU is one of th emost underfunded colleges in the country. And everyone that works there – everyone- knows it, and is always waiting for next year.

       

      Mudd?  Their start has been on the rise for sometime, and is rising strong.  If not now- when?

      You want cheap college?  Go to Europe.  Or Wyoming.

      1. save money, get your BA at Colorado Mountain College. They got legislative authority 2 years ago to offer 4 yr degrees in several areas including nursing, business and sustainability. Or, go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 yr college or university

        1. I've read several news stories that list studies showing that athletic programs do mostly require some funds from the school. I know at C.U. Every couple of years the athletic department gets another "loan."

  3. Saw Ashley Judd on CSpan last night. Very articulate on women's issues which was the topic at George Washington U in DC.  With a great campaign staff she may be a formidable opponent for McConnel

  4. Well in the ideal conservative/libertarian world all education ( like everything else) would be private and if you weren't smart enough to choose the right parents with the right assets…. tough luck, right? Tough luck and tough Daddy Party love.

    Remember the whole Daddy Party/Mommy Party take on Rs and Ds? Here's an interesting revisiting of that particular theory:

    It’s a popular analogy among fans of the political game to call Republicans the “Daddy Party” and assign “Mommy Party” to Democratic folk.

    The source of this analogy is generally understood to be George Lakoff, a professor of linguistics who wrote the book “Moral Politics” in 1996. This book postulated that Americans tend to comprehend governance through the metaphor of the family, with conservatives preferring a “Strict Father morality” – which values discipline, hard work, and self-reliance – and liberals having a “Nurturant Parent morality” in which people are better off by helping each other.

    Aside from the fact that interpreting “nurturant” as “Mommy” seems more than a bit sexist, the analogy has endured, with Republicans especially loving the hunky manliness of being seen as “Daddy.”

    But what if Daddy is a deadbeat?

    That’s certainly a reasonable conclusion to draw in light of Republican’s refusal to negotiate a halt to massive budget cuts – called “the sequester” – that began on Friday.

    It’s been widely reported that some of the hardest hit by the budget cuts will be children:

    • Prenatal children will feel the brunt of $353 million in cuts to nutrition, care, and education for their pregnant moms.
    • An estimated 30,000 children in low-income families will lose access to child care assistance due to $121.5 million in cuts.
    • 70,000 fewer children will have access to early childhood education due to $424 million in cuts to Head Start.
    • Children in K-12 schools who happen to be poor or who have learning disabilities will be especially hurt by $725 million in cuts to Title I and $600 million to special education.

    Deadbeat dads are famous for withholding financial support from children. So Republicans seem to fit the mold here.

    Of course, Republicans are going to deny this. Conservatives are going to claim the cuts aren’t that big of a deal – or are even actually a good thing. But Democrats need to call them out for their negligence and stop playing the role of the “ineffectual mom” who fails to confront the harm being done to children.

    http://blog.ourfuture.org/20130303/sequester-cuts-confirm-republicans-are-party-of-deadbeat-dads

    The whole article is pretty spot on.

     

     

  5. With Democrat's like this, who needs a Republican. I assume the Longmont folks won't be so happy about this.

    SB13-191-Pipeline Rights of Way / Hodge –Williams – The bill clarifies that, subject to state constitutional and statutory requirements that require payment of just compensation and otherwise govern the exercise of the power of eminent domain, companies operating pipelines that convey oil, gasoline or other petroleum or hydrocarbon products are pipeline companies granted the right of eminent domain.

    A pipeline company must also comply with all applicable laws and regulations including, but not limited to, federal pipeline safety regulations.

  6. More proof that "tadpole" just blindly listens to right wing lies.

     

    Senator Menendez appears to be innocent:

     

    An escort who appeared on a video claiming Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) paid her for sex has told Dominican Republic police that she was instead paid to make up the claims in a tape recording and has never met or seen the senator before, according to court documents and two people briefed on her claim.

    The woman identified a lawyer who approached her and a friend to make the videotape, according to affidavits obtained by the Post. That man has in turn identified another lawyer who gave him a script for the tape and paid him to find women to fabricate the claims, the affidavits say.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/escort-says-menendez-prostitution-claims-were-made-up/2013/03/04/31299fe2-8514-11e2-999e-5f8e0410cb9d_story.html

    When will these clowns ever learn?

     

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