President (To Win Colorado)
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CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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(R) Marshall Dawson
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DEMOCRATS
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July 03, 2007 03:16 PM UTC
27 Comments
Why are so many people shocked by the Libby 3/4 pardon? They had to keep him out of jail or he would have sung like a bird. I saw this coming as soon as he was convicted.
An “excessive” punishment? In Colorado first degree perjury is considered a Class 4 Felony which carries a penalty of 2 to 10 years in prison and a $100,000 fine. How is Libby’s punishment excessive? Wish I could lie with that kind of immunity on the stand!
and what it says about our legal system in this day and age. No rule of law, just who you know. Our legal system sells justice at a premium. If you have money and connections you are all set. Otherwise your ass is going to the slammer whether you did it or not.
Bush was willing to execute a mentally retarded man and has said he usually spent 20 minutes reviewing execution cases and never even stayed an execution for more review. Though I despise Bush, I thought the cognitive dissonance created by pardoning Libby might prevent him from pardoning Libby.
Now he should just drop all pretense and rule by fiat.
Long live King George!!!
….the mentally retarded guy wasn’t rich and powerful. And how much time do you want him to spend on death sentence review when he can be out clearing brush and riding his bike?
pardoned, but rather Bush commuted his sentence. I expect that he will be fully pardoned when Bush leaves office. What a perversian of the legal system and the findings of a jury.
Wow.
Here we are, on the eve of the fourth. What a call. Our founders are grinning in their graves.
The spirit lives.
http://www.msnbc.msn…
As much as I agree on a certain level, I really wish my fellow Dems would quit whining about the President and quit acting like he did anything illegal specific to Libby. We elect a president every 4 years. Bush isn’t going to resign and congress doesnt have the balls to impeach him…Olbermann and the like can keep on complaining…I meanwhile will be knocking on doors, donating time and money and trying to do things constructively to elect a Dem in 2008…
Just cuz the Dems haven’t shown real leadership thus far doesn’t mean we should just say, “Oh well, 08 will be a chance for change.”
There are issues here that involve the people putting future kings, I mean presidents, on notice that certain behaviors will not be tolerated. That Bush may not have been directly involved with the Scoot is not the point. His mentors Rove and Cheney were. Libby obstructed justice, which once obstructed, we become a nation of cult, not law. This was Nixon’s issue, obstruction of justice. That “The Plumbers” probably did little or not damage was not the issue.
Impeach either or both, now.
But really, I agree that throwing up ones hands is not the way to go…but, do you think anyone is getting impeached???…b/c I dont. As I’ve said several times before, pick any Article of Impeachment you want, I’ll even grant you the passage of that article through the House…but there’s no way on God’s green earth that Dems even come close to convicting Bush/Cheney/Gonzo…whoever…sorry. Hence, my feeling that people like Olbermann need to come back to reality and stop “demanding” impeachment…something that won’t happen…
Oh, BTW, I meant that Bush hadnt done anything illegal in pardoning…er, uh…”commuting” Scoot’s jail time. Lil’ Bush probably did obstruct justice himself. Youre right in the sense that Bush’s “crimes” are not the only issue here.
If Pelosi would feel the pulse of the country and go with it, articles of impeachment could be had in days. Then Chenbush could either play the game or risk being sent “up” to the Senate. Like with Clinton, it may not result in removal, but it would drag these mussels out of the mud for the world to see.
And who knows what not there might be some serious flip flopping in the Senate Republicans when they understand that the ship they are on is the Titanic.
Like I said, getting through the House isnt the issue. Youre a smart guy parsing…name for me who’ll be “flip flopping” to get to the threshold required to convict the Pres/Cheney.
This is what annoys me to no end about this impeachment “debate.” The Senate is small enough that if you have some political knowledge at all you can determine how most if not all bills will go down. I am soooo sick of this, “well, maybe we’ll find the votes attitude.” Please…SOMEONE tell me where you get the votes to Convict ANYONE in the Senate. Coleman-MN maybe…Snowe/Collins-ME maybe…Smith-OR maybe, Ensign-NV maybe…Voinovich-OH maybe…Graham-SC maybe…and that’s freakin’ IT. There are 7 MAYBE Repubs and no one else. 58 votes (and that’s assuming the EVERY Dem and Ind. votes to impeach) is obviously not going to cut it. Find me the votes to Convict Arbusto and I’ll pay closer attention to the irrational dems fueling this impeachment debate…
…we are just having dialogue here.
PR’s Rule #1: I don’t go predicting the future except in the most general terms such as “It looks like Dems will take back the WH in 2008.”
So, yes, it does appear that there aren’t enough votes in the Senate to remove from office, but have not stranger things happened? Who would have guessed that Arnie has become essentially anti-Bush?
And looking at history, although we’ve never removed a president, Nixon having impaled himself voluntarily, but Johnson and Clinton certainly were reigned in by the impreachement process.
My concerns, if I were you, would not be at the removal end of the process, but at the articles of impeachment, House, end.
Maybe a little drunk but… 😛
really though, the Caps werent meant for “yelling” as many people use them for…it was just for emphasis. And any anger there was wasnt directed at you, just the idea of impeaching the prez sometimes gets me going b/c, as you mention, its never happened (Imp + conviction).
Plus, as a giant nerd who gets paid to do congressional research (at the moment), my familiarity w/ the Senate borders on the insane. 😛
just wanted to see how thin these comments can get . . .
…drunk or not.
Another round of “Kumbaya?”
Can you not imagine how this administration would spin an impeachment acquittal? The press secretary would be talking about how the Shrub has been exonerated by the elected representatives of the American people from this politically-motivated witch hunt.
Why would the Dems make the same stupid mistakes that Tom Delay made in 1998?
Neither Ensign nor Graham would ever vote to convict. But you might want to put John Sununu, Jr. on that list of “maybes”. It could be payback time.
Shrub was the guy who actually fired Sununu, Sr. as White House Chief of Staff in the early ’90’s. Daddy Bush didn’t have the cojones to do the dirty deed, so they got Jr. tanked up on Jack Daniels and sent him in to give Sununu his walking papers.
Even if you get six GOP votes to convict, you know Lieberman is a definite vote to acquit. And there are probably a couple of Dems from Red States who will feel the heat (Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Mark Pryor, Jim Webb, Jon Tester).
Dems would be very lucky to keep 49 votes for conviction.
But Sununu is a good add…he’s also up for reelection next year and seeing what happened to the other repubs in NH last cycle, he’ll be running away from the Prez like crazy.
But, as youre aware, the point was that baring something crazy happening, Dems wouldnt come close to Impeaching Bush. It would be similar to Repubs and Clinton…and we all see how well that worked out for Newt and the gang… 😛
Goes to jail for lying to the FBI despite the fact that there was no underlying criminal activity.
But Scooter has to be released from jail time because the sentence was excessive and there was “no underlying criminal activity”. Meaning that no one was ever charged with the crime of outing a CIA agent. Martha was not guilty of any crime involving insider trading – no underlying criminal activity – but she did go to the slammer for lying to the FBI.
So, GW, why didn’t you commute Martha’s sentence?
Perhaps because she was a woman and was not a close associate of your vice president (emphasis on the word VICE)?
….and she even eventually accepted responsibility for what she did.
The Walker/Bush family is still struggling with their Nuveau (sp?) Riche status…..
My thoughts on what to do next here
tries to impeach Bush, he’ll bounce back like Clinton did when the berserker right tried to impeach him. Don’t you political extremists believe in learning from your enemies mistakes? Thank God Pelosi at least has a brain and won’t let that happen.
…cuz all the did was lie about a blow job between consenting adults.
Bush and Cheney have committed many breakings of the law, which is a tad more serieous, and the public gets that.
Clinton was at something like 73% approval rating on the day the impeachment started. So, he never really had to bounce back. Most of America understood that the impeachment was partisan politics at its worst. (And probably reflected on all the illicit sex that they had had in their lives and let The Big Dog off of the moral hook.)
Bush would start impeachment at virtually 1/3 of the popularity, to say nothing of genuinely criminal guilt.
Elect a President in an election in which the other side views the election as stolen or spoiled.
Maintain party control in both chambers of Congress.
Piss off everybody until you lose both chambers of congress.
Opposing party impeaches President.
President blames opposing party of political witch-hunting, uses military to distract voters.
President survives impeachment, is hated more by opposing party.
Opposing party’s nominee wins White House, cycle repeats (especially if the last names are “Bush” or “Clinton”)