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June 02, 2007 03:20 PM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 43 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“The electronic town hall allows for speedy communications and bad decision-making.”

–David Shenk

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43 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread”

      1. We had all the grandparents up here too. One family has 28 extended family members here for graduation – major major event for all.

        It’s just so cool to see them growing up. It’s a beautiful picture of our future.

    2. However, for all you “mad dads” out there, who weren’t able to see your kid graduate because your kid has been secreted from you or you are disallowed from seeing your kid, suck it up, and you better not miss the monthly child support check!  Your kid is better off with out you and you got what you deserved.

      (See ColoradoKid’s recent post characterizing court reformers as, “mad dads, who want to get back at divorce judges.”

        1. Sometimes, I’m not very effective at making my point well –a criticism that I accept.

          My point was not to take away from others’ joy but, to remind complacent or smug folks like ColoradoKid that seeing your child[ren] graduate is one of those simple life’s pleasures that is often taken for granted by folks like him, who haven’t been pejoratively as some of us “mad dads” have and, who describe us as “frivolous” or disgruntled.

          Perhaps, this article does a better job, than I have done, in making that point.

  3. I was at the Fairview graduation today and looking at 500 students graduating – from one of the toughest schools (public or private) in the state. It’s a tremendous accomplishment due to the kids, the school, and the families.

    And the number of seniors graduating with honors was probably over 100 and the number of IB graduates was about 25. This is just amazing.

    Also 3 students who are teen parents. (All BVSD teen parents go to Fairview.) I think that is a greater accomplishment than the IB diploma.

    BVSD is not perfect. But they are accomplishing a lot. And the end product is amazing. Especially as I have watched a large number of these kids grow up since elementary school.

    It’s also a sad time – my daughter leaves for College in the fall. They will all be moving on and while it’s wonderful to see them go on to live their own lives, I will miss them too.

    But again, kudos to BVSD – the graduating class at Fairview is something they can take great pride in producing.

    – dave

    1. To both you and your daughter. Your many posts about her participation in school and sports have been a balm. Thanks for all the sharing, and I…for one, wish her the very best!

    3. I have been very happy with the BVSD schools also.  Our daughter is graduating from middle school this Thursday and will be attending Centaurus in the fall.  It is a small high school, but it has an IB program and a pre-engineering program – and we have felt really good about our visits there and the teachers and kids we’ve met.

      And regarding school choice (just to bring a little bit of politics into the discussion!), I do thing the fact that BVSD has open enrollment has worked to the benefit of the schools.  They really do compete to have the best programs and reputation.

      1. That a student can attend any public school that they wish, as long as they can get there?  Or, perhaps within a given district? 

        I think that there are Denver students that have attended Englewood High, although that could be my imagination. If a student can catch the Broadway 0 bus, a straight shot south.

      2. I was talking to the principal of one of the schools in Lousiville – BVSD but mostly poor (free lunch) students. I asked him what was the cause of the improvements in the schools in that area, including Centaurus.

        Off the record he told me it was open enrollment and CSAPs. The combination was forcing the bad schools to improve and the BVSD administration to do what was needed to improve the schools.

        And yes, the IB program at Centarus is good. It will continue to improve over the next 5 – 10 years because it is just getting started. But the education in it is good and it’s small enough now each student gets a lot of attention.

        My youngest daughter just finished 9th grade under IB at Fairview and IB is a fantastic program. It’s a lot of work but it also throws a bunch of really smart kids together and that makes excelling in school something they get peer support for.

        1. took place in my senior year!  Back then, there were no advanced type studies, at least in Sarasota.  On the first day of school, 1963, I found myself in a class called English, but we were told that it was going to be Humanities.  Also, that we were all selected (drafted?) for this, and we would be teamed with another, similar class. 

          The class was incredibly challenging and interesting, I loved it!  (I also loved the fact that hottie Marsha Valberg took a decided interest in little ole me!) 

          Sometimes the problem is not that classes are too easy, but not hard enough.

          BTW, did you’ll see the story in todays paper about the success of a prototype Detroit school? Page 3E.  Although it didn’t mention cost, I’m going to bet that with a teacher/student ratio of 16:1 it wasn’t cheap.  So, presuming it cost more, I would offer those who wish to castrate public education, “Pay me now, or pay me later.”

          1. I was impressed with the graduation rate and the dedication of the staff.  But, it doesn’t cause the kids anything and I think that the school basically works with the same budget that a regular public school has…

          2. That is an interesting article.  For me, it illustrates the power of competition in the provision of public education.

            The Detroit University Preparatory Academy (with a 95% graduation rate and a 100% college enrollment rate) is an inner city charter school that limits enrollment to a total of 1,225 students.  The high school grades (9-12) are limited to 128 students in each grade.

            Those results are way better than the 50% graduation rate exhibited by Denver schools.

            Those results are achieved in inner city Detroit, so runs contrary to arguments that poor results are caused by minority students and immigrants.

            Those results are achieved by a school that does not charge tuition, so gets the same per pupil funding as public schools.

            The policy question we should be asking is why aren’t similar schools popping up all throughout Colorado?  Or, what can we do to incent the creation of such schools?

            1. community support for the success of the Detroit University Preparatory Academy.  It is a tremendous victory for a common sense approach to creating a learning environment.  Small classes; individual attention; parental and community involvement; and, having high expectations.

              However, let’s not make assumptions not in the story unless you have other information.  Example: the story didn’t say the school operated with the same per pupil dollars as the regular public schools.  It didn’t say the kids were from a school attendance area.  They could have been from all over the city.  Were there admittance requirements for students?  Did parents have to agree to volunteer time at the school? 

              The story did say one of the supporters put up $15 million to build a state of the art high school.  I’m not complaining or dissing the program, exactly the opposite.  But I am asking folks not to simply compare an out of the box success story to other schools here or elsewhere until some questions, such as, extra money, are answered.

              1. The keys seem to be a couple of things, all but 1 of which is within the control of the school system:

                1) Most are open to any child that applies and they then do a random drawing. But this still self-selects the kids and/or parents who understand that education is important. So we can increase the graduation rate a lot – but not to 100% without getting all kids/parents to see how critical this is.

                2) They have a staff that is dedicated and competent. When you hear of these schools they discuss teacher after teacher who inspires and leads the kids. You never hear of teachers who are doing even an average job.

                3) They have leadership that has determined how to create and run a successful school. And they have put in the effort required to pull it off.

                4) The school district made significant exceptions in their standard operating procedure, rules, etc. to “allow” the school to be created.

                This can be repeated. And it can be done with the money we presently spend. But it does require a significant change in how schools are presently run.

              2. Additional info is available on the school’s web site, which indicates it receives the same per pupil funding as traditional public schools.

                The fact that a supporter was willing to put up $15 million is a testament to the fact that when funding can be provided outside the constraints of property taxes, great things can be done.  For example, if a homeowners’ association could provide funds towards the establishment of a charter school (which is not allowed under Colorado law).

                Many years ago, Kurt Vonnegut wrote a short story called “Harrison Bergeron”  The first paragraph of the story is:

                “THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.”

                Here’s the entire short story if you’ve not read it:

                http://instruct.west…

                The idea of the story is that political efforts to make everyone equal prevent people from excelling.  In public education, the accepted political principle seems to be that we’d rather have an equal system where everyone performs poorly rather than an unqual system where some schools succeed. 

                 

            2. Where, pray tell, does that article mention anything about competition? The school is a courageous experiment; the success obviously comes due to the dedication of the staff and the low student ratios. 

              I presumed that it was a charter school.  OK, if they are doing this with the same cost per pupil but the staffing ratio is essentially double, how do they do it?

              Regardless, it’s not about competition.

    5. In answer to several posts, my daughter is going to CSU. She was also accepted to Univ of Washington and Univ of Oregon but we told her she would have to pay for the difference between instate and out of state and after scholarships she was still looking at 10K/year and didn’t want that kinf of debt.

      She also wants to be a vet – has wanted to since she was 5 or 6. And CSU has a great vet school. So CSU seemed natural to her.

      For some reason, with us living in Boulder, she did not want to go to C.U. 🙂 I don’t understand as my wife and I are such cool parents (can any parent actually be cool?).

      CSU is a good school. My wife went there as did my oldest daughter. Of course, CU is better as I went there :).

      thanks – dave

      ps – Funny story – she goes to pick up her robe on Friday and they hand her some gold braid. She asks what it is for and that is when she finds out she is graduating with honors.

      1. And don’t feel bad.  My oldest son wanted to stay close, the other wanted to go away to school. It’s not about you, it’s about being independent.  Home town colleges are often ignored by their own, while other students come from far away just to attend that same college. 

        1. I do wish though that WICHE included Univ of Wash and Univ of Oregon as those would have both been great for her. It seems WICHE includes every school in both states except the Universities.

          And we lived in Washington for 3-1/2 years paying taxes, etc. But do you think those years of paying in would get us instate? Noooooo.

            1. You can go to Univ of Hawaii for any major. But it’s not that good of a school (I grew up in Hawaii). You can go to Univ of Oregon if you are in one of 2 or 3 very unusual majors but that’s it.

              Probably the same for Oregon/Washingtom residents wanting to go to CU. It would be nice if they offered full reciprocity.

      3. Oldest daughter graduated May 4th from the University of Texas School of Nursing Magna Cum Laude.  Inducted into the honors society.  Did so starting school after a divorce with two kids.  Wound up getting married, had another child, and mommying a blended four child family.

        Superwoman? 

        Her first degree is from CU, so as I’ve mentioned, I have a long horned buffalo!

        -Paul
        (I think Dave was incommunicado when I revealed my secret identity.)

        1. My other two daughters graduated from Mines!  Both went to work for Motorola in Austin but are now at Dell.  Her future is BRIGHT!

    2. Maybe another Republican on Armed Services will get his house raided by the FBI or something, giving him a another chance to impress us all as he skillfully climbs the ranks. O frabjous day!

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