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CO-02 (Boulder-ish)
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April 25, 2007 02:43 AM UTC
36 Comments
Schaffer just seems baffled — “Where did it go? . . . where did it all go?”
Now that’s a scary quote.
…is that “it” never was. And he still doesn’t understand that.
Yes, scary.
Why are people like Shaffer who have repeatedly been wrong on the most important issues of our time still taken seriously?
As seen here Shaffer cannot admit fault so how can we just trust him to learn from such dire mistakes.
“I see my old friends in Congress. I constantly ask them: The information we had, (that) I had seen, was so overwhelming and corroborated. Where did it go? These specific mobile labs and armaments and equipment, where did it all go?”
“Where did everybody go”…Janis
So easily deluded, so easily led, so easily swayed. Do we want sheep as representatives, or do we want tough minded, independent thinkers?
I wonder the same thing. When I saw Colin Powell testifying on the UN floor, I was scared witless. I thought it was all true too.
Sen. Barack Obama has sought advice from a wide circle, including, I have read, Gen. Colin Powell, who now deeply regrets his role in making the case for war in Iraq.
On the Republican side, Gov. Mitt Romney (another foreign policy neophyte) has reached out to a number of advisors, among them, Gen. Brent Scowcroft, an early foe of the war in Iraq and a close ally of Powell’s from the first Bush presidency.
Ennaresting, indeed.
When I read about the scene at the White House where Cheney put Colin Powell up to delivering that damn speech (after Powell called it a crock of shit), I was disgusted.
Did what good soldiers do, follow orders.
Reason #1 why I would have failed in the military. “Excuse me, Sarge, but I just don’t see things that way. Why don’t we instead……”
Allowed himself to be compromised by the one bush expectation: Loyalty.
Im not military and maybe some off of resident military people can chime in, but isnt there the expectation to question orders that are deemed unethical? My dad was in the army and he told me his first sargeant once said to him “Sir, yelling at me is like pissing in the ocean.”
..about not following orders if deemed improper.
My sense, and that’s all it is, after Nuremburg this was a major component of the military culture. But with time there was A Forgetting. It’s still policy, but not likely to be recognized.
Look at all these soldiers in the middle east. Either they are going along despite recognizing the illegality and immorality from the alleged reason we are there, on down. Unlike Viet Nam, there is not a huge media and resource base to blow on the embers of conscience.
who unfortunately got caught up with a bunch of ass clowns.
When it came time to do the right thing he did the wrong thing.
Bush was not the Commander In Chief of Powell when the latter was SoS. Powell should have told him to stuff it and then gone to the world and say why he was fired.
He chose to be a good suplicant, not American.
He really should have told the Shrub and cheney what to do with that God damn speech rather than meekly follow their orders and delivering the damn thing at the U.N.
Then he should have submitted his resignation, and a week later, announced he was running for president.
Or is it, Hear, hear!
I’ve never gotten that one down. They both make sense. Here as in now, right here, is where the action is, or Hear as in “listen.”
I agree with you that Powell made a huge mistake, but I would hope you would look at his entire career to judge him, not just this one big blunder…
People who say Powell lost his credibility underestimate the pressures and don’t remember the context.
When Powell gave that speech, he was under enormous pressure from the Administration, who at the time was very powerful. Powell was the one dissenter that had the public’s eye, but, as you all remember, the media, politicians and the politic were caught in the tide of war. The presentation was billed as the Adlai Stevenson speech for the new century. Glad the bar wasn’t set too high.
Powell did his job as an honourable man should. He did more for the State Dept internally than his predecessors and helped move the organization to a place where the diplomats had more power than the ideologues.
The man was a brave soldier in battle, but when confronted with doing the right thing, he cratered.
Cratering under pressure is something I would understand if it was you or me. Not a man of his background.
Doing the difficult or unpopular thing is the hard thing in the world to do.
If he followed his conscience instead of doing GW’s bidding the whole war thrust might have fallen apart. Powell has blood on his hands.
Pictures of trailers?
It was a highly underwhelming presentation at the time if you actually watched it. Powell speaks with confidence even when he lies, but I have to say it took only a healthy amount of skepticism to see immediately that the Administration had nothing.
The Powell speech destroyed my last hope that my instincts were wrong, that we might possibly not be simply hearing lies.
Iraqis on a camping trip? Or maybe a mobile meth lab?
Udall really hit the nail on the head in 2002. A thoughtful answer to a question that many had trouble answering. He’ll be tough to beat.
He can use Obama’s line “I told you so.” I’m sure it will work for one of them!
Unlike Obama, Udall actually was faced with a vote and still did the right thing. There are not many politicians that can stand up to the strong political pressure that was being exerted at that time. Udall was one of them. If I remember right, DeGette was another (although to be fair, she is in a much safer district). Most of the Dems failed their duty to the nation to do what was right in the face of political pressure. Who cares if they lost the next election if they could have staved off this horrendous war.
…DID vote against: 126 against (including Udall), 81 for. in the Senate 21 Dems and 2 independents voted against, not a majority of the Dems but getting close to half. It simply isn’t true that most Dems went along.
Interesting though, that back then almost all the Dems with Presidential ambitions voted for. It is said that Kerry’s advisers told him that if the war went well and he was on record with a “no” it would ruin him. Others no doubt also voted out of fear and ambition even though they knew what a pack of lies they were being fed. There were plenty of experts, former officials, intelligence operatives and diplomats, etc. telling us all then what is so clear now. The “we were misled” excuse is just that for most yea-voting Dems, a lame excuse but, taking the House and Senate Dems together, most Dems DID stand up.
As for being scared by Powell’s pathetic aerial views of tiny trucks that could be anything or nothing, too bad so many of us were such ninnies.
I didn’t just mean the House of Representatives. Dems in the State legislature supported the war as well.
It needs to be pointed out, however, that Udall is moving closer to Bush’s position on Iraq … at least when it comes to funding the escalation and on a timeline for getting our troops home.
The price of political ambition is apparently worth the sacrifice of many more lives lost in Iraq … judging from a recent vote by Udall.
Last Thursday, April 19, 2007, on the Motion to Instruct Conferees on the House version of the bill that would fund the war, but call for a scheduled withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq — Mark Udall joined the radical Republicans and voted NO.
Take a look for yourself at the roll call vote: http://clerk.house.g…
Or try something more radical?
I can’t imagine that he is against a pullout timeline.
Or maybe a dose of reality. Go arrange a visit with Mark or one of his staffers.
I have. Three times.
Mark Udall opposes any timeline. He talks a lot.
The appropriation bill will be vetoed because of the withdrawl timeline in it. The troops in the field, according to Sec. of Def. Gates, have the funding they need for the next several months so their lives are being put at risk by the failed Bush policy no matter what that vote was.
As Rep. Udall stated, there is going to be further debate, and time to revisit that approach.
three years ago.
So whatcha doin’, Mark?
Kucinich voted “Present” and no one is going to accuse him of being FOR the war. There must have been something going on with the motion that isn’t clear from your post.
It was never really there, Congressman. It hadn’t been there since, at the latest, 1998.
The Bush Administration pushed a view voiced by a single misguided CIA analyst over that of entire department investigative bureaus at DOE and State for nuclear weapons. It pushed half of a CIA interview and ignored the other half, and listened to a drunk and known liar as though his word was gospel.
It was all a lie, Congressman.
Oh, and By The Way: Saddam hasn’t been functionally aggressive since we pounded his army into the sand in 1991.
– Links 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq
– Thinks the Iraq War is a “continuation” of the 1991 conflict
– Admits the neocon Republicans had war as a goal regardless of other circumstances
Game over, man. Schaffer should save his money and not even run.
Looks like one (Udall) made a very prescient statement and the other (Schaffer) got duped by his own administration. Where did it all go ? Huh ?
The question then follows, who do you want as your next US Senator? If that’s the case I’ll take “team tofu” any day of the week.
“timid opposition” versus “willing and eager dupe.”
And like you, I’ll take #1 any day. Go Team Tofu!