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January 24, 2012 04:44 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 49 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Silence is foolish if we are wise, but wise if we are foolish.”

–Charles Caleb Colton

Comments

49 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

  1. He’s rich – so what?

    Makes perfect sense that he would describe $370k of speaking fees as “not much.”

    He should have released them sooner, at least before SC voters punished him for being Mormon.  Because if he was a real mormon he would have given $4.2 million  to the church, not just 1.5.  See- he’s not real mormon, just like Gingrich is probably not a real Catholic.

    14% effective rate.  Ouch.

    Sure, he apparently didn’t break the law, but it’s the law that is the problem, not his wealth.

    Caymans?  I know their laws are different, but still. Shouldn’t he be banking in the US? How committed to the US is his family anyway?

    1. I think that the rate Romney paid is not the problem, if any thing I think many people who would vote for a Republican would say, “Right on, I want to be able to do that.”

      There are potential problems here depending upon what people respond to, but nothing that prevents him from winning the nomination without a lot of work on the part of Gingrich and allies.

      1. … but Swiss bank accounts, even if they’re closed now, even if they co-operate with the IRS now, and even if it was all perfectly legal to begin with, are going to be bad for his image. It’s also only going to raise questions like, How much of his money has he offshored in his life? How much is he really worth? (The quarter of a billion figure seems low now.) When will he release more returns?

        It’s easy to see why he was a bit reluctant.

        1. Swiss Bank accounts, not a good visual, but this is the Republican nomination. For that matter other than making us Democrats dislike him even more I am not sure that a majority of Americans would regard having a Swiss bank account as worse than being a Mormon.

          1. People who believe in pursuing wealth, paying few taxes for it, and all that generally believe in fair play at the same time. Most of us don’t have many tax shelters to take advantage of, and few of us would even know how to go about opening a Swiss bank account. You probably have to do it in person. (And I think most people don’t have strong feelings about Mormons, either.)

            The perception of Swiss bank accounts, regardless of the reality, is that it’s where rich people put their money to avoid taxes. I’m sure many core Republicans hail that, just as they support slashing taxes for the wealthy because they dream of joining that club. But the Republicans don’t elect the president.

            Romney may not be hurt too bad, not yet, but it isn’t helping him any.

            This is the tip of the iceberg anyway – he’s likely to be pressured to release more returns, and you have to wonder what they show.

            One last thing… think about his reported tax burden of about 14%. If people perceive this as normal for those in Romney’s wealth bracket, this could seriously hurt the “slash taxes for the wealthy” mantra if not stop it dead in its tracks. Most of us are bearing a larger burden, and seeing what Romney pays will make more people decide that maybe the rich can afford to keep paying what they’re paying now. Whether that manifests as “soak the rich” (unlikely), “slash MY taxes” (more likely), or some other position remains to be seen.

    2. not so bad.  He does pay taxes though  at a very low percent and his charitable contributions are well over 10% with most going to his church.

      On the other hand the Cayman Island and Swiss bank account money aren’t exactly fueling jobs here and his income of over 20 million in both years puts him in a far more rarified income class than the mere top 1% or even .1%.  He earns more than twice the floor for top .01% earners or .001 of us.  That’s rarified indeed. Kind of makes all his little I’m an average guy comments…pink slip worries, being unemployed…look more like I’m a clueless schmuck comments.

      Top 1% = $368,238 (20.9% of income)

      Top 0.5% = $558,726 (16.8% of income)

      Top 0.1% = $1,695,136 (10.3% of income)

      Top 0.01% = $9,141,190 (5% of income)

    3. I do envy Mitt Romney and other millionaires in one respect — I wish the tax rate on my income was not more than twice the rate they pay on their investment income.

    4. As I understand it, the policy rationale for the relatively low (15%) rate of capital gains is to encourage investment.  You know, for the job creators.  But looking at Romney as an example, what else is he going to do with his money?  You physically can’t stuff 100’s of millions in cash or bullion in your mattress.  Doesn’t he have to invest it? Is the risk that he will invest it in some other country? If he does, does that avoid US taxes?

      1. Who is most likely to have capital gains?

        RIch guys.

        Rich guys want to pay less tax. RIch guys vote and donate to candidates and hire lobbyists.  The policy rationale is to  allow rich guys to pay less tax.

        Think about it.

        You can pay 35% on income tax form income you were paid for work.  Or, you can pay 35% on  income from cap gains where you invested and others worked.

        You would still invest and not work. Work sucks – that’s why you get paid to do it.

  2. Yes, since that whole “Kenyan Muslim” thing has worked so well for their reputation as intellectual giants, now the Tenn. sect of these shrieking idiots wants to make sure that textbooks don’t have any mean things about the Founding Fathers:


    For a bunch of people who worship the Founders and like to play dress-up American Revolutionary War, Tea Partyers sure hate knowing anything remotely reality-based about the Founding Fathers. Tennessee Tea Party groups have introduced a proposal to take what few minorities there are in American history textbooks out of American history textbooks, along with any negative portrayals of the wealthy white men who led this young nation in its infancy.

    At a press conference, two dozen activists presented their proposals – I’m sorry, their “demands” – for the new state legislative session. Among them are sweeping changes to school materials that they probably have not actually read.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/01/1

    Please, lead Teabagger, use your Constitutional rights to display the depths of your ignorance:

    Fayette County attorney Hal Rounds, the group’s lead spokesman during the news conference, said the group wants to address “an awful lot of made-up criticism about, for instance, the founders intruding on the Indians or having slaves or being hypocrites in one way or another.

    http://www.commercialappeal.co

    In reality (once place the Tea Party has yet to inhabit), George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, owned slaves. Thomas Jefferson fathered children with his slave Sally Hemings and James Madison brought a slave with him to the White House when he became president.

    1. There’s much more.  Ben Franklin never married the mother of his children.  He had multiple affairs, both here and in Europe (I suppose he’s Gingrich’s hero).  For heaven’s sake, Jefferson re-wrote the Bible denying the divinity of Christ.  Hope others can add more.

    2. is the inevitable “They were better off under slavery” argument for African Americans, and “we brought them civilization” for the Native Americans.

      1. I wrote about Polis being awesome last time. Someone else’s turn, lest he think I’m just kissing up because I want to hug his baby and his dog.

  3. credit, his $6 million in taxes are supplemented by $7 million in charitable contributions.  About $4 million of that went to his church [he tithes] but about three million to other charities.  Add it up and his tax rate plus charity is about 31 percent of his income.  He has nothing to be ashamed of and much to be proud of.

    1. there is some pretty impressive stuff there, truth be told.  I don’t want him anywhere near the Presidency, but he does have a ton of accomplishments in his life.

      1. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

        36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

        37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

        38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

        39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

        40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

         Mathew 25 verses 35-40.

        1. And I don’t mean to belittle the contribution, but most Mormons in good standing pay the 10% tithe on top of their regular tax rate and don’t get the benefit of a reduced capital gains rate.  It’s strongly expected of LDS members that they tithe a full 10% of their income, and I believe it’s a prerequisite if you hold certain offices within the church as Romney has.

          The 5% on top of that is certainly nice, but frankly he can afford it – he’s certainly not hurting with $20m+ annual effortless income and the low tax rate to go with it.  Hell, if I was retired on $20m per year of new income, I’d be handing out well over 75% – I don’t need that much money.

          And I still want to know if any of that other money is going to non-charitable goals, despite being labelled “charity”.

          So color me less impressed than you, but I’m glad he’s not a complete scrooge.

  4. The Way It Was.

    I don’t remember the way it was. Neither does the young woman about my age who is in the forefront of the zygote personhood “movement” in Colorado. Neither she nor I have ever lost a friend because she went somewhere to take care of a little embarrassment. Neither she nor I have ever known someone who was raped by an abortionist because you can’t really report a sex crime committed by someone in the process of helping you commit the crime of making a choice about your own body.

    But if she wants the “way it was” to become “the way it is,” she really ought to acknowledge that personhood is simply a choice of a fetus’s life over the life of a girl or woman. You can’t take away choice, as this article illustrates. You can only take away the availability of safe choices. Maybe instead of “pro life” and “pro choice,” we should just say “pro birth” and “pro life.” Because that’s all that personhood is… pro birth. A few more births, exchanged for the deaths of a lot more women, and their fetuses.

  5. BRET STEPHENS:

        The GOP Deserves to Lose

    http://online.wsj.com/article/


    …it’s like confronting a terminal diagnosis. There may be an apparent range of treatments: conventional (Romney), experimental (Gingrich), homeopathic (Paul) or prayerful (Santorum). But none will avail you in the end. Just try to exit laughing.

  6. Yup, let’s talk about Colorado Typotiks. Time for a good chuckle ’round the ol’ pot bellied stove.В 

    Like Luke Larimarkins’s bill he’s gonna introduce in the House of Representatives requirin’ that skuls inklud JohnВ 3:16 in the pledge of allegiance ever’ morning. Okay by me so long as long as it’s in English, just like Jesus spoke it, and it don’t cost nothin’. That’s the important part…how much does it cost?

    Who kares about some girl named Maddie Parlier livin’ in South Karolina? Yeah, her story is in The AtlanticВ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/01/making-it-in-america/8844/ , sum В East Coast librul magazine story ’bout bein’ hard to get ahead without an educashun if your dad’s a semi truk an’ all. No passin on the right! Hahahaha.

    What’s that got to do with Colorado Polyticks? As long as weВ got Tabor В an’ all, what’s there to talk about?В http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=753

    ‘Cause the way I see it, bein’ in 50th place is the same as bein’ in 1st if you look at it from the right angle. Why not lead everybody else to the bottom in spending on education? ‘Cause we can always count on Kalifornia to educate people B4 they move here to go skiin’. Just ask Loopdeloop. He’ll tell you all about the Kolorado Kontradickshun, and why he ain’t botherin’ to try to persuade people to waste a bunch more money on skuls. Besides, how hard is it to lurn to sing I’m Just a Lonesome Kowboy From Wazee?

    Besides, that talk about buildin’ up the next generashun of energy here in Kolorado is just some silly ass talk by a buncha “scientists” who wouldn’t know a wart from a warthog if one bit him on the ass! Hahahahaha. We kan build modern hitek faktorys here any time we want. Plenty of people to work in ’em, too, long as there’s plenty of room to park their pickups (and some semi trucks, too, hahahaha).

    I know kold when I feel it. You kall this global warmin’? C’mon, pull up a chair ’round the stove. Plenty of room so long as you agree with ever’ buddy here. Don’t want none of that mental masturbation, though. We got a Greek fillosofur to watch out for that. Right, Plato?В 

    1. If you didn’t talk down to them, and then use that as a way to instruct all of us not to talk down to them, how could we at Pols possibly go on ?  You are a beacon in the darkness. Thank you.

  7. which kind of sounds like me threatening to boycott air. He thinks he lost the last one because applause wasn’t allowed. (Rather than, you know, because he can’t respond to substantive criticism without throwing a temper tantrum.)

    Romney has also benefited from a boisterous audience. Remember when Stephanopoulos asked him about the Griswold decision and the right to privacy, and Romney played dumb about contraception for his idiot audience (which dutifully booed the moderator)?  

      1. Unfortunately for you, I don’t think Gingrich will follow through with it.  He’s been winning or at least keeping even in the debates, and they give him free air time, which his campaign needs since it doesn’t have the money to match Mitt.

        PS – Mitt wasn’t confirmed to last night’s debate, either, but he showed up in the end…

        1. But the Right-Wing-Uber-alles Superpack just got another $5 million from Mr. I want to Buy Influence with the Next President so I can expand my gambling empire.

            But the debates are the only forum where snarly gnarly guy looks good, and they’ll take away Newt from the Debate when they pry his cold, stiff demagoguery off the podium;-)

  8. couldn’t this o have been the Kerry sports moment in 2004 instead of wind surfing?  Seems he showed up to honor the Bruins after busting his nose playing Hockey, a regular manly man pastime of his.  

    Sen. John Kerry made quite an impression on Monday when he appeared at a White House event honoring the Stanley Cup champs, the Boston Bruins, sporting a broken nose and two black eyes.

    Kerry has played hockey for many years, typically in the forward/right wing position. The centrist lawmaker and former presidential contender also participates in the Congressional Hockey Challenge, a charity event between lawmakers and lobbyists that raises thousands of dollars for the Fort Dupont Ice Hockey Club in Washington D.C.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

      1. know thast hockey is a non-brie eating, non-latte sipping, non-elite, non-effete pastime. Although you can’t be absolutely sure about the brie and latte with those Frenchie players but you can be damned sure you’d get your clock cleaned teasing them about it. And it’s easier to have a beer with a hockey player than it is to have one with a teetotalling reformed drunk. Couldn’t have hurt.  

  9. Good ol Doug Laimbrain is boycotting the State of the Union. Because he disagrees with the President’s policies.  So, the chamber should only be half full then?

    What did I do to whom that I am stuck with this guy? I thought I might be saved by redistricting, but no.  Scott Tipton would be welcome relief compared to this nimrod.  

  10. but just this one more thing before I tune in. Here’s an example of the kind of jobs Romney is creating with his 200 or so million:

    IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).

    You suppose the missus and kids do most of the chores?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

    1. One for each of several houses?  That’s what that looks like to me…

      No actual cooking staff or butlers, anyway.  Maybe she likes cooking – or maybe he does?  Or maybe they have a semi-permanent catering arrangement…

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