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July 21, 2011 03:42 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 61 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Indifference is harder to fight than hostility, and there is nothing that kills an agitation like having everybody admit that it is fundamentally right.”

–Crystal Eastman  

Comments

61 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. As we (The Professional Left) get a chance to look closer at the “Raw Deal,” it gets worse.  One of the things buried on page four in the directions to the Finance Committee is a fundamental change in how we will tax corporations. The Gang of Six wants to give billions of dollars in tax savings to the richest corporations in the US, and encourage them to move jobs overseas. That is the logical result of changing to a system of taxing income only if it is “earned” in the US. This is called a “territorial taxation” system. Currently we have a hybrid system. We tax income from whatever source, but we give a credit for foreign taxes on the income, and we don’t tax any of the money until it is repatriated.

    Left warns, CEOs laud Gang of Six on overseas tax

    And, Bennet and Udall still support this turkey.

    1. Why has he chosen to throw you and your issues under the bus? Does he sense that tax equality for job creators is a more important issue? Or is it that he wants you (all individuals) to pay their fairshare versus burdening job creators?

      1. Does he sense that tax equality for job creators

        Tax equality for job creators? That tired old bullshit is really starting to wear thin. Hedge fund managers and commodity traders, insurance company and oil company executives do not create jobs. Demand creates jobs. Taxes create jobs. Small businesses (under five employees and self-employed people…not the U.S.Chambers’ definition of “small business”)create jobs.

        Well, guess what. The fat cat bankers won’t lend us the money we need to get this economy rolling. You want to know, Libby, what made this economy tick?

        Stated Income loans. My business (I am a self-employed general contractor)operated for years on them. My credit is impeccable. I have been profitable for twelve consecutive years. My wife and I have real estate equity and money in the bank.

        We can’t find a lender that will write us a mortgage. The banking industry doesn’t DO stated income loans anymore. A recent story on NPR featured an economist that said a simple return to the lending practices that were used prior to the mortgage debacle would immediately result in a 30% spike in home sales and construction. You don’t suppose that would spur the economy, do you?

        How do you kill an economy? Disenfranchise 30% of it’s participants. That’s how. How do you unseat a president? Kill an economy.

        Politics 101…just ask Mitch “Wormtongue” McConnell.

         

        1. Duke, I was with you 100% until you got to your penultimate paragraph. Stated Income Loans?  We call them “liars loans” because the borrowers were either lying to the lender about their income or lied to the IRS which is why their tax returns would not support a conventional loan.  A friend of mine was recently confronted with this problem.  As a small businessman he – upon the advice of his accountant – grossly understated his income on his tax returns to avoid paying taxes.  When he went to get a mortgage, his tax returns showed 4 figure income rather than the near 6 figure income that he actually made.  He couldn’t get a loan.  I don’t feel very bad for him.  Perhaps if he and the rest of the small business community stopped screwing around and honestly reported all of their income, we wouldn’t have the deficit problem.

          1. and tax returns might reflect reality a little better.  Solves at least two problems at once — increased revenue for the US Treasury, and more loans to small businesses.  I suppose that’s too simple . . .

          2. and I have no sympathy for him either.

            We have never lied on our taxes, nor have we ever falsified a loan application. We have received and paid off several six-figure loans. We didn’t change…the fucking banks did.

            Stated income loans have been used successfully by the lending industry for many years before the scuttling of regulations by the GOP allowed the thieves in the financial sector to create the phony mortgage market and all the other larcenous shit they have pulled.

            Read this part of my comment again.

            A recent story on NPR featured an economist that said a simple return to the lending practices that were used prior to the mortgage debacle would immediately result in a 30% spike in home sales and construction.  

            Your insinuation that all business people who use stated loans are liars is very offensive.  How do you suppose we got our 825 FICO score…by lying?

            How else is a self-employed person to get a loan? I know…stop being self-employed and get a job with a corporation. Oh, wait…they aren’t hiring.

            1. Duke is right and Jadodd is right, but I think you guys are talking about to ends of the problem.

              The fact that some people and some brokers misrepresented their income was a significant problem.  

              However, not all people mistated their income and self stated loans have a long history of performing–particularly before securitization when the borrower went to their community banker that they had an ongoing relationship with.

              The problem now is that there is an over reaction to the abuses of the past and good credits are having the door slammed in their faces due to blanket bans.

              1. many community institutions used to employ analysts and underwriters who were trained to read and interpret  complicated tax returns and financial statements.

                Today borrowers, even at small local institutions, are “scored” using a limited amount of purely statistical data.  Scoring models are much less expensive than employees.

            2. Stated income loans have been a major problem in the housing bubble and the attendant financial crisis.  People used stated income loan to buy houses that their real incomes could not support.

              It was not my intention to get personal with you.  I, too, am a small business owner.  However, I have never had to use a stated income loan because the income on my tax return less the debts that I have (fortunately nearly none) allow me to qualify for loans.  When I read you comment, I had to wonder why you needed or supported stated income loans – i.e. a loan where you do not provide documentation for your income.  While normally it is none of my business, you put it out there.

              As a personal fiscal conservative, I support the abolishment of stated income loans.  They, generally, lead to excessive defaults which raise the cost of credit to the rest of us – and most recently to a major financial crisis.

              I suppose you can argue whether a specific formula (debt service below 35%, 40% or 45% of income) is appropriate, but someone needs to evaluate a borrowers current ability to repay the loan based upon documented and reliable information.

                1. Sure.  I don’t personally borrow money if I can help it and mostly I can.  I save for a new car and purchase it with cash rather than buy one on credit. (My current car is 15 years old and still going strong.)  I don’t have any credit card debt. (I can’t remember when I last used my credit card.)  Live in a modest home which will be paid for in two years (originally a 15 year mortgage).

                  I will be the first to admit that I am financial blessed.  But, I also believe in living modestly.  I am the bain of the modern consumer economy.

                    1. ..so there’s no point in making a comparison.

                      Except if you move to Somalia, you’ll never have to mobilize your family to fight an armed conflict with the neighbors over an HOA agreement.  

                    2. SO much easier to be “not a fiscal conservative” when it’s someone else’s money.  Got it.

                    3. sophomoric – conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature

                    4. Why would it make sense for you to be “personally fiscally responsible” but not the government?

                      That’s truly one of the most awesome things I’ve ever read.

                    5. Ellbee – I suspect that I pay more in income taxes than you make.  But, I consider it my patriotic duty.

                    6. You showed me.

                      My bad.  Because I eat your breadcrumbs I shall henceforth not have an opinion.  Or feel patriotic.

                      How rude of me!

                    7. Your the one who started with the snark.  

                      My point was that I pay my taxes and lots of them.  It is my money that is being spent. If you pay your taxes in full as required by the tax codes, I ask nothing further of you.  You have met your current duty.

                      As for your opinions, you know the old cliche about opinions.  What bothers me is that your opinions are most like religious tracts.  You offer viritually no factual support for them.  And, when you do, your “facts” are from thoroughly discredited sources.  You seem to be operating on a leap of faith and you want the rest of us to jump off the cliff with you.

                      Any analogy between my personal financial philosophy and that of national governmental fiscal policy is overly simplistic and – yes – the best word for it is sophomoric.

                      Nevertheless and against my better judgment, let me take you up on it:

                      First, I would never voluntarily cut my income below my anticipated expenses.  Yet, both Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush instituted massive unfunded tax cuts which created the largest deficits and debt in the history of this country.  The Bush taxes cuts alone increased the debt by $2.5 trillion in just 8 years.  I always plan for my income to cover my expenses. That’s why I support letting all of the Bush tax cuts expire as of December 31, 2012, which would reduce the deficits over the next ten years by $5.1 trillion. (Congressional Research Service, 10/27/10.)  That is why I support the return of the tax rates in effect during the Eisenhower administration. (If you don’t know what they are, I suggest you look them up.)

                      Second, in the event of some personal financial emergency, you bet I would borrow money and spend more than I make. Bush and the Republicans pushed us into a financial crisis unseen since the Great Depression.  The federal government was the only entity which had the resources bring us out of it. Unfortunately, Obama did too little and relied too much on tax cuts.  His stimulus may have kept us from falling into the abyss, but it was not enough to get the Main Street economy moving again.

                      I just object to frivolously spending money – like on jet engines the military doesn’t want or need or military occupations doomed to failure.

                    8. You offer viritually no factual support for them.  And, when you do, your “facts” are from thoroughly discredited sources.

                      Example?

  2. Yes sports fans, it’s discouraging, but then again leading Colorado politicians agree with Rassy and Zogby polls, our Presidents approval ratings are in the toilet.

    The question is why are the Pres numbers so very low? Is it failed policies, flawed principles or a combination of the two and piss poor execution … you make the call.

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday …snip…  giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17 (see trends).



    A Generic Republican candidate leads President Obama by six points in an early look at Election 2012.

    …. Snip …

    Sixtynine percent (69%) believe that competition between health insurance companies would be better for consumers than more government regulation.В  Such competition is now effectively outlawed and health insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws.

    Sixtyeight percent (68%) would like to see that exemption repealed.

    -By a 56% to 33% margin, voters believe that competing state standards would do more to reduce health care costs than a single federal standard of regulation.

    Seventyfive percent (75%) favor strict sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

    -Most also favor strong sanctions against those who knowingly provide housing for illegal immigrants.

  3. I’ve heard from a few folks that the new maps and data are showing that the Dems will lock up the Senate for years and the GOP could loose the House too … Although another friend says the maps lock up the House for the GOP for years to come.

    Anyone with some thoughts and data want to opine?

  4. Does she have to pay the House physician or is this more of the extra-special health care for the elites?

    My guess is it came from TPaw or Perry through Rove.

  5. Right up front, the Gang of Six endorsed switching from the Cost of Living Adjustments currently used by the Federal government to Alan Greenspan’s suggestion of the “chained-CPI.”  As you might expect from the apologist for the wealthy, this proposal is aimed squarely at poor, working class and middle class families

    Switching to chained CPI changes not only the cost of living adjustment for Social Security and other benefit programs that use a COLA, like federal pensions and veteran’s benefits. It also changes the cost of living adjustment for…. tax brackets. A tax bracket that might go up, say, $100 year-over-year would only go up $50, under chained CPI. And that means that higher tax brackets would be available at lower yearly income. This sounds technical, but the point is it’s a tax increase, designed to bring in $60 billion over ten years. What’s more, it’s a regressive tax increase.

    The U.S. has a progressive income tax system that taxes higher incomes at higher rates. For example, a married couple making $50,000 in taxable income pays a 10 percent tax on the first $17,000 and a 15 percent tax on the rest.

    Those thresholds, or brackets, are adjusted each year to ensure that people don’t get a tax increase just because their incomes increase with inflation. Adopting the Chained CPI would mean smaller adjustments to the brackets, leading to higher taxes for people at just about every income level.

    Low-wage workers would eventually see the biggest increases, while high-income taxpayers would see only small changes. That’s because the wealthiest taxpayers already pay taxes at the highest marginal rate, currently 35 percent.

    For example, by 2021, taxpayers making between $10,000 and $20,000 would see a 14.5 percent increase in their income taxes with a Chained CPI, according to an analysis by the Joint Committee on Taxation. Taxpayers making more than $500,000 would get a tax increase of 0.3 percent, while those making more than $1 million would get a tax increase of 0.1 percent.

    2/3 of the tax increases under this change would be paid by people making under $100,000 a year.

  6. Cenk Uygur, a very feisty liberal host on MSNBC has left the network.  I have to admit that I never watched a full show (it comes on at 4 pm here), but I frequently saw the first few minutes at the end of Hardball that I Tivo’d.  He always had a great introduction to his show that seemed to nail the liberal perspective on the day’s news.  He’s being replaced by, wait for it, Al Sharpton.  That’s just pathetic.

    So, in the past few months we liberals have lost:

    –Keith Olbermann (now on the seldom seen Current TV)

    –Bob Herbert, NY Times columnist

    –Frank Rich, NY Times columnist (now at the seldom read New Yorker magazine, I think)

    –and now, Cenk Uygur.

    It’s hard for the left to present a narrative when we have to rely on lesser figures like Maureen Dowd (ugh), Lawrence O’Donnell (mild ugh), and Al Sharpton (really?).

    1. Sharpton is doing a great job on that show.  He’s been hosting it for about three weeks now while Cenk was “on vacation.”  He doesn’t let his guests filibuster–he forces them to answer the questions.

      Cenk did a good job too, sad to see him gone.

  7. Smithsonian Civil War 150 – A Commemoration by the Smithsonian

    http://civilwar150.si.edu/

    One of my favorite exhibits is now a permanent physical and virtual one:

    The Price of Freedom: Americans at War surveys the history of America’s military from the French and Indian Wars to the present conflict in Iraq, exploring ways in which wars have been defining episodes in American history. The exhibition extends far beyond a survey of battles to present the link between military conflict and American political leadership, social values, technological innovation, and personal sacrifice. The heart of the story is the impact of war on citizen soldiers, their families, and communities.

    http://americanhistory.si.edu/

  8. Update on the breast milk baby doll:  

    If we had a Fairness Doctrine, would women who had actually had a baby  have a chance to host a show?

    There are no women who haven given birth who are also talk show hosts.  Fascinating.  

  9. http://polis.house.gov/News/Do

    Hmm, well, in Colorado we already don’t have enough resources to properly educate our students. At least not those  who weren’t lucky enough to be born to parents in the affluent ‘burbs.

    So while this is noble of Rep. Polis, I’m not sure its practical for our current economic climate. $100 million in new spending when we’re looking at cutting some huge programs also doesn’t seem like the best idea…

    1. but I for one don’t get annoyed when Democrats try to do good things. It’s nice to have Democrats remind us once in a while why we try to elect them instead of Republicans, especially when the people at the top can’t seem to make that case.

  10. Put Me In Charge

    June 7, 2011

    В 

    It’s not that I can’t think of stuff to write, because I can!В  But some letters are so absolutely GREAT, that I feel they are often a column by themselves.В  So here we go, from the Waco Texas Herald Tribune on 11/18/10, written by Alfred Evans, in Gatesville, TX.В  (Don’t mess with Texas)

    “Put me in charge of food stamps.В  I’d get rid of Lone Star Cards (?), no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho’s, just money for 50 pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese, and all the powdered milk you can haul away.В  If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

    “Put me in charge of Medicaid.В  The first thing I’d do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations.В  Then, we’ll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, nicotine, and document all tattoos and piercings.В  If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke, or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

    “Put me in charge of government housing.В  Ever live in a military barracks?В  You will maintain our property in a clean and good state or repair.В  Your “Home” will be subject to inspections anytime, and possessions will be inventoried.В  If you want plasma TV or X box 360, then get a job and your own place.

    “In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week, or you will report to a “government ” job.В  It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, or whatever we can find for you to do.В  We will sell your 22 inch rims, low profile tires, your blasting stereo and speakers, and put that money toward the “common good.”

    “Before you write that I’ve violated someone’s rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary.В  If you want our money, accept our rules.В  Before you say that this would be “demeaning” and ruin your “self esteem,” consider that it wasn’t that long ago, that taking someone else’s money for doing absolutely nothing, was demeaning, and lowered self esteem.В  If we are expected to pay for other people’s mistakes, we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices.В  The current system rewards them for continuing to make mistakes and bad choices.

    “And, while you are on Government subsistence, you no longer can VOTE!В  Yes, that is correct.В  For you to vote would be a conflict of interest.В  You will voluntarily remove yourself from the voting rolls while you are receiving a Government welfare check.В  If you want to vote, get a job.”В  Very good Alfred Evans!

    The above would decrease the crime rate, deficit, police work, illegitimacy, auto accidents and injuries, and the list could be several pages I suppose.В  Why shouldn’t public housing be inspected?В  Why should recipients of the dole be allowed to vote?В  If you vote for the one who hands you the money, that is indeed a conflict of interest, because recipients will ALWAYS vote for the Democrat who passes out the checks.В  Why shouldn’t check recipients be made to work?В  Not Social Security recipients, because they have already worked for decades only to have their so-called ‘savings’ raided.В  When you work for a living, you obey your boss or get fired.В  Why shouldn’t recipients of handouts for doing nothing, have to obey the providers of the largess?

    Google a few words for the source. Mine came from an email a buddy sent over, then i googled it at http://www.coloradogold.com/ar

    It reminds me of the rules when I grew up …  

    1. That downright creepy, even for you!

      I’m glad your stellar track record on research continues (“came from an email a buddy sent over”)….any plans to re-start the Fake Kenyan Birth Certificate chain letter?

      1. …it appears to be VASTLY different than the right-wing frogwash you’ve got posted above…

        http://www.mtdemocrat.com/opin

        F’r Instance, the start:


        I don’t believe in handouts but I do believe in giving a hand up. I would see no man, woman or child go without the basic necessities.

        And it ends right after the line “People must learn from the bad choices they make, not be rewarded for them.” All the crap at the end I can only guess you added after drinking after attending the “Andrew Breitbart School of Online Blogging.”

    2. Not to put too fine a point on it, and ignoring the stereotype overtones, but the ideas suggested in the email are prohibited by the Constitution.

      So unless the author(s) wish to offer amendments to allow for unreasonable searches and seizures, and to get rid of the right to vote for American citizens, and certain 1st Amendment rights, and…then the above email is just so much bullshit.

      Why is it you would advocate for extreme loss of freedom under the banner of a political party that advocates for more personal freedoms?

      Fucking hypocrite.

      Why am I even writing this?

      1. .

        I would sooner do away with assistance programs altogether, than turn them into someone’s personal fiefdom, where he can lord it over those in need.

        I’m hearing swastikas.

        .

    3. And I don’t get it- it’s a free country and a market economy.  If being poor is so bad, why do so many people choose to be poor?

      Food stamps: it’s not the consumers who choose which foods are eligible. It’s the food producers.  No more ag subsidies, no more letting ConAgra, ADM, Monsanto, YUM, PepsiCo, Lays, and etc deciding what;’s eligible.

      Medicaid and forced sterilization? I’m pretty sure that’s unconstitutional. But I thought the whole life begins at conception, reproductive rights, every sperm is sacred, no sex education, no family planning was the problem.

      Gov’t housing: That’s almost exactly how it works. Except if you get a tv that’s too nice, no fear of the gov’t taking it away, your neighbors will generally do that for you.

      gov’t jobs? Where? And they would be free, right?  Unpaid labor has a name, and we fought a bloody war about it awhile back.  Ohhhhh, it’s the black or Mexican Cadillac driving food stamp queen living in Cabrini Green, loading up on steak and selling heroin to 4th graders.  Got it.

      Why would having a paying job be the standard for voting? I mean, it’s only those who actually own property that really should have a say. And, of course, only those who can read and write. In English.  Not only a pay stub or a gov’t issued picture id to vote, a poll test and proof of property ownership….but not rims or stereos or tv’s.

      I rarely engage comments from this poster – but you suck.  ANd I think you post this stuff because you believe it – which is creepy – and because you want us to beat you up.  You remind me that you can’t tell a woman with black eys anything she hasn’t heard twice before.  Break up with us. Seek shelter. Rebuild yourself.

  11. ..over the awesome sales of Windows 7. Wonder how this is going over…


    Apple’s Lion hits 1 million copies sold

    Apple today announced that it sold more than 1 million copies of Lion, the latest version of its Mac OS on its first day of availability.

    The software, which went on sale early yesterday, made its debut back in October during the company’s “Back to the Mac” event. In today’s release, the company noted that customers are buying Lion “faster than any other OS release in Apple’s history.”

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-2707

    That’s OK – the awesome sales of Win7 Phones will carry them thru this quarter….

      1. and since that’s how I make my living, I’m still on Snow Leopard until they release the 10.7.1 update and Adobe releases some patches.

        There’s also some issues with Acrobat and Safari, and Flash will suck up some serious CPU cycles because there’s no hardware acceleration in Lion.

        It’s like anything = wait a few weeks for the rest of the industry to catch up, and then it’ll be fine.  

    1. After having been so impressed with our I-pod, our nano, our I-phone and I-pad we made the jump.

      Totally fucking awesome machine.  Easy to use, fast, well designed.

    2. But in the trash taking back and forth remember that the operating system in widest use is neither Apple or Windows 7 – it’s Windows XP. Ten years old and now on end of life – but it still rocks.

    3. I upgraded my Iphone 3G’s operating system to the new and improved IOS 4.0 (after Apple pressured me for weeks into doing it, advertising no possible downside). It nearly bricked my phone, and for months I waited for updates that would fix the extreme slowdown problem. I certainly got plenty of updates, but none of them made the slightest difference. Apple provided no mechanism for undoing the update, but all the clerks at the Apple Store told me to illegally get a copy of the old operating system from some random web site and reinstall that.

      The saddest part is that for every Apple update that breaks your computer/phone/MP3 player, there are a million nutjob fanatics who will conclude it’s probably your fault and you should buy the newest hardware (or just stop using the old hardware the way you were using it).

          1. I don’t me crap in the sense of completely worthless junk that doesn’t perform (eventually), I mean crap in the sense of pretty, shiny baubles . . .  generally unnecessary, and usually overpriced doodads, geegaws, and piffle.

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