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April 07, 2011 03:48 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 59 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity.”

–Arthur Schopenhauer

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59 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. http://www.foxnews.com/politic…


    American voters would rather shut down the government than raise the debt limit, even though most believe a shutdown would have a dramatic effect on everyday Americans.

    A Fox News poll released Wednesday asked voters to imagine being a lawmaker in Washington who had to decide whether to increase the debt ceiling. The poll found 62 percent would vote against raising it — even at the risk of shutting down the government.

    About one-in-four voters (26 percent) would raise the limit to allow the government to spend more.

    Sorry Guvs, they’re not with you this time.

    1. AGOP -100% cred for citing a Faux poll (not that u really had any).

      Seriously AGOP, U wanna use Faux’s Fuzzy Math to boost your case?  Remember …

      or maybe that’s your kind of math?  The kind that ramps up bullshit 120%.  

    2. Shutdown Holds Risk For GOP

      With Congress and the White House in marathon talks to try to avoid a government shutdown, Republican lawmakers are caught between the demands of their conservative base insisting they hold their ground on deep budget cuts and the wishes of political independents they will need in the 2012 election who are pressing for compromise, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll finds.

      http://online.wsj.com/article/…

        1. Presumably you’ll blame the people who don’t want the government shut down?

          It’s like people who blame a murder victim for not cooperating more fully with the murderer.

        2. Unlike the shutdown in 1995, Military members and their families will NOT get paid this time.

          That also includes veteran benefits, such as disability pay. But I suppose they have to sacrifice their salaries so The Orange Man and his teabagging cronies can get their enormous salary. After affl the Republican’t party gave a shit about Veterans for the 6 years they were in absolute power, why would they change now.

          1. The House passed H.R. 1363 today which provides funding through the end of the fiscal year for our troops.  Only 15 Democrats thought that it was important enough to vote Yes on it.  Harry Reid has called it a “Non-starter” and President Obama has promised to veto it if it reaches his desk.  

            So right now, it looks like the ones blocking pay for the troops are Democrats.  They seem to look at our military as a pawn they can use to increase their chances in the next election.

            2. But no. The President is right to threaten to veto anything that keeps for government going for just one week. They need to pass a damn budget. The House Republicans were callous enough to use soldier pay as a bargaining chip. Awesome “leadership”.

              1. Congress needed to pass it last year.  But the Congressional Democrats were too busy trying to hold on to power to do their job.  Now you want to try and blame the whole thing on the Republicans?  The Dems wouldn’t do it when it was their responsibility, and now they roadblock Republican efforts.  Awesome fail at “leadership”.

                1. To cut where things actually need to be cut: entitlements and defense spending. Oh wait, no, let’s defund NPR and planned parenthood. Makes perfect sense!

                  And the current majority wouldn’t know anything about roadblocking legislation. They were 100% bipartisan and respectful of the will of the people in the previous election.

            3. House Democrats offered an amendment that provided a “clean” continuing resolution that paid the troops, minus the partisan hackery that 1363 contains.  Like every other piece of the House budget process we’ve seen that’s received 218 Republican votes, it’s complete Tea Party Poison.

        3. And I’m sure you can show me some poll that says they’re in favor of privitizing Medicard, cutting Medicaid and cutting Social Secuirty.  Still doesn’t make it true.  I hope you guys continue to rely on these polls by the discredited Faux News and the discredited Rasmussen.  Please make your policy decisions on this crap.  Please, Please!!!!!!!

          1. someone who doesn’t already think that’s how their policy decisions are already being made.

            MSU . . . the creative force driving today’s conservatives.

        4. Everyone keeps talking about like it, but what does that mean to you.  Do you think it is possible to pay off our debt with 3 wars and a massively bad economy?

          BTW, how in the hell did the Repubs convince all you intellects that the debt got bad in the last two years?

          Americans are tired of the lying, fighting and ugly that comes out of Republicans.  

          I say shut it down, but pay the troops and their families.  We DO KNOW WHO TO BLAME!!!!

          1. Sadly his children died, all those years ago, before age two. Very sad, but at least he didn’t leave them any debt. #PropertyBubblesHaveAlwaysSucked

            It’s always interesting to me how quickly GOP talking points turn an actual issue (imo, important, but not urgent) into a fucking joke.

            “America’s sick of deficits!” Well, yeah, that’s why Obama is in office. The GOPers on this site are forever forgetting that whole history-gets-written-down thing. We get it. Bush sucked. Clinton was (so hard to not make the joke) good. We’re fixing it.

  2. This is the Appendix to Ron Paul’s new book, Liberty Defined.

    1. Rights belong to individuals, not groups; they derive from our nature and can neither be granted nor taken away by government.

    2. All peaceful, voluntary economic and social associations are permitted; consent is the basis of the social and economic order.

    3. Justly acquired property is privately owned by individuals and voluntary groups, and this ownership cannot be arbitrarily voided by governments.

    4. Government may not redistribute private wealth or grant special privileges to any individual or group.

    5. Individuals are responsible for their own actions; government cannot and should not protect us from ourselves.

    6. Government may not claim the monopoly over a people’s money and government’s must never engaged in official counterfeiting, even in the name of macroeconomic stability.

    7. Aggressive wars, even when called preventative, and even when they pertain only to trade relations, are forbidden.

    8. Jury nullification, that is, the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, is a right of the people and the courtroom norm.

    9. All forms of involuntary servitude are prohibited, not only slavery but also conscription, forced association, and forced welfare distribution.

    10. Government must obey the law that it expects other people to obey and thereby must never use force to mold behavior, manipulate social outcomes, manage the economy, or tell other countries how to behave.

      1. I know we all love making fun of IT people, but they need a college degree to do what they do. Or at least a high school degree. Or at least some knowledge of something that does something.

          1. They used to ask why George W. Bush would always give speeches as though he were talking to an idiot, and finally someone realized it was because that’s how his advisers had explained it to him.

            1. “If natural acts of God are so good for the economy, why sit around and wait. We should nuke ourselves and rebuild.”

              The enormous intellect of this woman is strangely erotic.

      2. and evident MG doesn’t further waste time with any critical thinking

        spoon-fed armchair libertarians unite!

        BTW, libertarians don’t like copyrights?  Betcha Hachette Publishing Group none to happy about outright illegal cut-n-paste of their commercial material but maybe MG’s way of just sticking it to the man (even when the man is R.Paul).

    2. 1. rights may exist in nature, but rights without enforcement are meaningless. enforcement comes from government.  Though rights may be individual in nature it is inefficient for the government to ignore groups that share a common volation of their rights.

      2. peoples rights, economic or otherwise, must recognize that one man’s liberty can be the tyranny of his neighbor.  Dictators are the only people with unlimited rights.

      3.  Ownership and property rights are defined by law.  law is defined by government.  without government you don’t own anything.

      4. see above

      5.  this is generally true (as far as it goes)  by the same token we should have the right to protect ourselves.  So I gather you support the right to sue the pants off of people for things like making crappy cars.

      6. sounds like 19th century shiny dirt loving economics.  Doesn’t make enough sense to respond to.

      7. hate to say it, but in a free country the population gets to decide what is and isn’t forbidden.  The limit on war should be that the government is honest about the cost and causes.

      8.  not really.  It wasn’t illegal for a white man to kill a black man in the south because of jury nullification until well in to the 70’s.  I don’t think that is right, but maybe you do.

      9.  One of these things is not like the others.

      10. yes government has to follow rules.  However, government is by definition force and coercive in nature. if it isn’t, it isn’t a government.(see articles of confederation)

      With that I put you in the Libretard category and never respond to you again.

    3. Not one of these things in in the Constitution so how can they be true?  In addition the one about government voiding private property ownership, well, sorry, but that is in the Constitution and it gives government the explicit right to do so.

      1. I disagree with your assessment that none of this is in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or The Declaration of Independence, however If you insist, maybe we need to replace the Constitution with these 10 principles of liberty.

      1. Tsunami advisory for 1 meter or less.

        Bullet trains are starting back up.

        One nuclear plant (Onagawa) that was already shut down went off-grid, diesel generators apparently kicked in to continue cooling.

  4. premature death late Tuesday night is shocking even though she had been ill for some time.  Her write-up this morning said it all: “Vibrant,” “Beloved by all.”  Public comments by Governor Hickenlooper and fellow council members were touching and humerous, testimony to her popularity.

    I’m sure she loves the fact that her successor will be determined by a grass roots, write-in campaign in the already scheduled May 3 mail-in election.  Her name appears on the ballot, unapposed.

  5. Congrats to Linkhart on a deserved win–he was very much at home in front of the young and rowdy audience. My favorite, Mejia, made a strong showing, and I got a great deal of fun out of his pinning Romer to the wall on skipping many of the recent candidate forums. Hancock came off as charismatic and bold, and displayed a very funny rapport with Linkhart. Spahn is a lot sharper than I had expected, and deserves to be polling higher than she is; however, I think she’d be more at home in a legislative position than an executive one.

    No points to Boigon or Romer. I like Carol, but someone needs to get her a debate coach–she looked very much at sea without a paddle. Romer came off about like he usually does. I think he mentioned cupcakes at least a dozen times, including asking Linkhart a question about cupcakes rather than adhering to the spirit of the debate format by giving another candidate a question relevant to the race.

    Great work by New Era Colorado on hosting. The best comments of the night came from the hostess, the self described “baddest girl in Denver.” Judges were good sports and made liberal use of their “bullshit flags,” as was warranted.

    Droll, are you hung over? 🙂

    2. Thank God I’m so charming. Otherwise I would’ve been kicked out and still walking home.

      It was a good night and that’s a pretty good summary.

      I’m liking New Era more all the time. Their people are amazing. (Kudos if you’re out there.)

      1. I want to buy both the hosts a beverage if I ever see them at an event where they get to relax and drink instead of working. Nicely staged, great props, clever hosts, and the kind of excitement we need to see around local elections. I wonder if they need Jeffco volunteers in 2012?

  7. VA Care End Eyed for 1.3 Million Vets

    Budget Panel Eyes End to VA Care for 1.3 Million Vets

    The House Budget Committee, chaired by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), has told a veterans’ group it is studying a plan to save $6 billion annually in VA health care costs by cancelling enrollment of any veteran who doesn’t have a service-related medical condition and is not poor.

    Joseph Violante, national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, said he first learned of the committee’s interest in possibly narrowing access to VA clinics and hospitals from a DAV member from Wisconsin, chairman Ryan’s home state.

    Violante and other DAV officials arranged their own meeting with a staff member for the committee. He confirmed growing interest in a cost-saving initiative to push priority 7 and 8 veterans out of VA health care.

    As this budget committee staffer reminded Violante, proponents for opening VA health care to all veterans had argued it would be cost neutral to VA. That’s because VA would charge these vets modest co-payments for their care. Also VA would bill these veterans’ private health insurance plans for the cost of their VA care.

    That argument from 1996 turned out to be wrong. Co-payments collected from low-priority veterans and private insurance plan billings today cover only 18 percent of the cost of care for group 7 and 8 veterans. By 2009, the annual net cost to VA to treat these veterans totaled $4.4 billion or 11 percent of VA’s annual medical appropriation.

    The figures come from the Congressional Budget Office’s annual report to Congress, “Reducing the Deficit: Spending and Revenue Options.” Among options it presented this year to the new Congress for reducing VA spending is one to close enrollment in VA care for all veterans in groups 7 and 8 and to cancel the enrollment of veterans currently in two low priority groups.

    CBO said this would save VA $62 billion in the first 10 years, from 2012 to 2021. But the net savings to the government over the same period, CBO said, would be about half that amount. That’s because many of the veterans bumped from VA are old enough or poor enough to use Medicare or Medicaid, which would drive up the cost of those programs.

    We asked a committee spokesman for comment, both by e-mail and voice mail, but none came in time for this column’s deadline.

    http://www.military.com/featur…

    So, point blank question – why does the Republican’t Party favor cutting 1.3 million veterans off from the medical care they get from the VA, while they favor a millionaire tax cut of $125,000 per rich contributor?

    I’d call Rep DeGette and complain, but she doesn’t talk to the common people….and if I see either Coffman or Lamborn in the next few days, I intend to ask some agressive, hard questions…

    1. Sadly, if a young person asks me about military service, i speak frankly about how much it has changed since my father raised his family as a Air Force Family and from the time i spent in the Navy in the late 80s and early 90s.  The American government is failing our service people and young people should decline to serve.

      Why give your life or limbs or mental wellness for a country that will foresake you?

    1. … we shoulda let that state of Klansmen secede, rather than let  them subject us to racist Senators like Trent Lott and James Eastland for eternity.

  9. For all you 3rd CDers…

    http://www.montrosepress.com/a…

    Tipton hosts tele-town hall meeting tonight

    WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Rep. Scott Tipton will host a tele-town hall meeting tonight at 7, Mountain Standard Time, his office just announced.

    …To participate, call 877-229-8493, and enter code 17773.

  10. Turns out it isn’t:

    Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus said Thursday that she failed to save in her computer and consequently report 14,315 votes cast in the city of Brookfield, omitting them entirely in an unofficial tally released after Tuesday’s election. The new totals give 10,859 more votes to Prosser from Brookfield and 3,456 more to Kloppenburg, she said. Smaller discrepancies turned up in two other communities as well.

    Of course there are those here who will race to be the first to be posting “VOTER FRAUD!”  Unfortunately local Democrats won’t back you on that.

    At the news conference with Nickolaus, Ramona Kitzinger, the Democrat on the Waukesha County Board of Canvassers, said: “We went over everything and made sure all the numbers jibed up and they did. Those numbers jibed up and we’re satisfied they’re correct.”

    As a Democrat, she said, “I’m not going to stand here and tell you something that’s not true.”

    So I guess those April 4 Union Rights astroturf exercises weren’t as groundshaking as Pols wanted us to believe, eh?

    3. And how do you miss an entire city’s vote totals, anyway?

      The Waukesha Clerk is a partisan hack who has repeatedly (over many years) demonstrated a lack of skill necessary to run a trustworthy department.  I hope the county votes her out next time around.

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