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February 24, 2020 06:24 AM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 82 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Catering to populist anger with extremist proposals that are certain to fail is not a viable strategy for political success.”

–Max Boot

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82 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread”

  1. Further proof that Common Sense isn't (which is applicable to many fields of interest) — we have a new leading candidate for this year's Darwin Award

    By my calculation, he reached a height of approxmately 1,500 ft before returning back to the ground.

    Too bad he didn't simply watch this record of a more successful attempt:

     

     

      1. Every. Damn. Tuesday. 

        Be there or be square  flat and round. 

        Bible Earthers are out of this world

        “It is not that the truth is not known, it is that the truth has been intentionally hidden from the masses in order to control the population, and keep them away from God,” the website says.

        Many of these believers share the same sentiments that traditional education that includes learning about the solar system and evolution are inherently not true because the teachings of the Bible say otherwise.

        Being religious is not a requirement in becoming a Flat Earther, but for many of the members in the Fort Collins Flat Earth group, God is all that they have known. Samantha Peters, a relatively new member to the group, says that a relationship with God is the key to knowing the truths about the world.

  2. WOTD: “Elizabeth Warren is the only candidate who can stop Bernie Sanders (if that’s really your goal)“

    Why? Because Warren is the only candidate who shares some of Sanders’ base. Therefore only she has the capability of reducing his delegate count. Knock her out, and her base goes over to Bermie,and that’s all she wrote..

    The establishment lane is totally split, each asking the others to drop out. Even as they do, their support won’t necessarily go to other establishment candidates. The liberal wing of the Party outnumbers the establishment wing, ignoring that denies 2024, 2030, etc.

    The best strategy for the establishment would be to throw to Warren, now. The next best strategy, would be to help broker the convention for Warren. Sanders’ supporters are very dedicated, but at least share convictions and outrage that Warren can harness. Can you imagine Sanders’ supporters turning out for any other establishment anointed candidate? Bloomberg, for example?

    1. "This isn’t an argument about stupid “electability.” … … All of our candidates are equally electable. "

      Really?
      Gabbard? Bennet? Klobuchar? Steyer? Bloomberg? 

      What about the Starbucks guy? What about Inslee, Bullock, Hickenlooper, Bennet, Williamson, and dozens of others?  His analysis is… .weird.
       

    2. If Sanders has a plurality of pledged delegates, and another nominee comes out of a brokered convention, I think Democrats will be surprised by how little it matters who that nominee is.

      1. Yeah because Sanders has never respected the rules of the Democratic Party and their rules for nominating a delegate.  The convention has the purpose of realigning delegates after the 1st vote.  Minor candidates release their delegates and the 2nd round forward will depend on which candidate the released delegates vote for.  In theory, there will be more delegates for moderate and centrist candidates then Sanders and they would coalesce around one.  If the carpetbagger doesn’t like to play by Democratic Party rules then he should have run as an Independent.  That’s what he has been his whole life and shitting on the Democratic Party has always been one of his specialties.

    3. You nailed it, park place!  Warren is our last, best, hope to save this party from free stuff ism and this country from Trumpism.  I’ve sent her money regularly since 2012. 

      this year, I’ve sent money to kamela, Amy and Warren.  To those who think a 79 year old white boy can unite this party, take a look at what a smart woman c an do.

      amy is great but did not catch fire.  Hillary showed the way and won 3 million more votes than Trumpstink.  Warren is as smart as hillary and willing to campaign in Wisconsin!

      1. V, we need to understand that our vote will be worthless unless we vote for someone who passes the 15% threshold.  Actually, it'll be less than worthless because we'll just decrease the denominator that will be used to allocate the delegates between those who did pass the threshold.

        I'm not sure Warren can do that in Colorado (based only on her performance in other states, so far).  I, like you, have supported Harris, Amy, and I supported Pete instead of Warren.  But, now I'm waiting for tomorrow's debate to see if Joe or Mike can perform.  I suspect I'll vote for one of them based on my hunch that they'll get more than 15% in CO.

          1. We hate the carpetbagger from Vermont whose hatred for the Democratic party is matched by the poison he has introduced into it.  Hating rich people and moderates is now the norm for a party that once touted itself as a big tent.  Only when Sanders has destroyed it will people see what a humongous prick he was.  If he gets the nomination, I will vote for him but if my candidate (Bloomberg) wins the nomination how many Bros are going to bail?  He is a really fucked up narcissist who rivals Trump in his messanic zeal to destroy what was once a melting pot of American politics.

            1. wow.
              It has been a while since I have seen or heard it said so clearly.

              If Bloomberg is the nominee – I will get the hat and shirt and canvass for him.

              It is hard for me to say what happens to the bros if that happens.
              2016 most places the bros still showed up and voted Hillary. Colorado, for example.

              However, if Bloomberg wants to implement a national stop and frisk, I am pretty sure even the current courts will not allow it in American citizens.
              If Bloomberg wants to adjust the ACA so that a few million more of the unintentionally uninsured get access, it will be a tragic fail.

              But we agree to vote D.

              1. Stop and Frisk was a policy that reduced murders in NYC by 50% but didn't justify the harm done to the affected communities.  Please give Bloomberg some credit for learning from his past mistakes.  Compared to Sanders thin resume, Bloomberg has had an incredible string of accomplishments.  He is the Bill Gates of finance.  His programs are used to handle the bulk of the financial and commodity transactions worldwide.  He built a company that employees 20,000 people and has been rated as one of the top companies to work.  Sander's pie-in-the-sky proposals will never get implemented in our lifetimes.  He's done nothing in Congress and there is no realistic expectation that he will do anything as president.  I actually was rooting for Bennett.  I really liked Michael.  I was also rooting for Harris but the dumb fuck Biden hogged the centrist lane and forced her off the road.  A lot of people have stereotyped rich people as bad but we had FDR & JFK who came from rich families and embraced liberal solutions for government.  Bloomberg is not Trump.  If Trump was as smart as Bloomberg, we'd all be in reeducation camps by now.  Sanders is a do nothing disaster in waiting.

                1. Stop and Frisk was a policy that reduced murders in NYC by 50%

                  No it didn’t.  Studies of SQF show nor or very little effect.  The biggest effects are related to significant increases in police presence in high crime districts.

                  As murders go, the trend line decrease is relatively consistent from the 1990s through, and after, Bloomberg.  iirc, the largest murder rate drops under SQF happens as stops decreased.

                  2. Stop and frisk was a policy in effect at a time when violent crime was dropping nationwide, primarily because abortion reduced the demographic of young, poor men prone to violent crime (read freakonomics.)

                    A program of stop and make balloon animals would probably also coincided with a reduction of violent crime.

                    Correlation is not causation.

            2. Who needs Republicans or Russians when we direct that kind of vitriol against our own Democratic front runner? 
              Sheesh. 

              Get a grip, people. You may or may not agree with Sanders, or like him personally,  but the guy is just trying to get universal access to healthcare and secondary education, as most modern industrialized countries provide for their citizens. 

              And he’s been advocating for that for fifty years now, and has been successful in negotiating amendments onto bipartisan bills.
              As an amendment to the ACA, for example, Sanders and Clyburn secured 28 million in funding for community health centers in schools, churches and rural communities, and 11 billion overall. These are often the only clinics available for those who live in states which refused Medicaid expansion. 
               

              Many of our school based clinics in Colorado, which provide STD and birth control services to teens, vaccinations and basic health care to all students, are partly funded through this amendment to the ACA. Churches that serve homeless people also rely on this funding, and it is there because of Sanders and Clyburn’s work. 

  3. Feb 24, 2020

     

    “Right now, there’s no magic bag of tricks anybody has. It’s on the people running for president right now. So, the only person that can stop Bernie Sanders is one of the other candidates, and the clock is ticking, they’re almost out of time.” 

    ~David Plouffe 

    “If, as seems likely, none of the other top five or six drop, it looks like Sanders can have a large enough lead by the end of April or sooner that no one can catch up.”

    ~David Axelrod

     

    There are others who are generally indifferent to who wins (Reich, Stiglitz, Krugman, etc) who know Sanders can win.

     

    But what it comes down is this: 
    Start saying it now.  
    Sanders is the nominee. President Sanders? Ok. President Sanders. It feels weird, sounds weird. President Bernie Sanders. Bernie Bros in the White House.

    If he is the nominee, those who just can’t get behind him should just get their 4More! MAGA hats, socks, shirts and signs now and admit they are focused on ’24 because we suurvived 4, so what’s 4More compared to bad bad D?

     

    1. If Sanders is the nominee, Trump wins another term.

      if Trump wins anoth er term, it's two more fascists on the court.

      happy now, Madcow?  

      Cue your bongo drums and face the real world.

      bernie is a loser.

            1. I voted for Humphrey, idiot.  From my Army's post, fighting lbj's war.

              A war that bernie and Trump both dodged.

              Then I voted for mcgovern.  Think of him as bernie with a brain.  And a patriot.

              Bang those bongos, berniie bro.!

               

              1. too perfect

                Humphrey couldn’t win because the Democratic party was split by exactly the same kind of if I can’t get my preferred candidate, so what if I get Nixon?

                Democrats- doing what hasn’t worked for 50 years.!

                  1. riiight, keep forgetting that

                    And kind of the point – vote for the D nominee and Trump loses. Do something else and encourage others to do something else – Trump wins.

                    It’s not about ideology – it’s about turnout.

                    1. The D's will vote for the nominee.  It's the Independents who won't vote for a do-nothing commie.  Trump has billions to spend vilifying Sanders do nothing socialism.  Americans have been conditioned to fear big government and that fear will be stoked to the max.  I have solid Republican friends who would vote for Bloomberg over Trump but not for Sanders.  Democrats are not the problem here MADCO.  It's the Indpendents who will be targeted and Sanders won't be able to live down his do-nothing socialism.

        2. It isn't Voyageur's pessimism that is going to sink Bernie in a Trump v. Sanders race.

          It is Bernie wanting to have a discussion on the merits of the Cuban political and economic system under the Castro brothers that will sink him.

          https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/democratic-reaction-bernie-sanders-cuba-comment/index.html

          Or Bernie's very loose understanding of economics and mathematics.

          https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html

          1. Ok, but tell me again where Trump’s detailed breakdown of all his plans were in 2016? 

            How about his economic forecasts and actual results for the 3 year old Tax Cut bill? 

            How does that somehow all get lost in the conversation vis a vis an aspirational plan in the midst of a campaign? 

            Do we just assume that all Republican voters are gullible idiots and comparing promises from Trump to actual results is a complete waste of time, thus not worth talking about?

            2. "Do we just assume that all Republican voters are gullible idiots and comparing promises from Trump to actual results is a complete waste of time?"

              Yes.

              1. Ok, we both almost agree (except for the not talking about it part).  So can we just start using TrumpMath (or any GOP economist’s formulas) and say Sanders’ plan will cost nothing, and result in 10% annual GDP growth?

                Actually, having a healthier, better educated, expanded via immigration workforce fueling an economic boom, with billionaires making money hand over fist that they don’t even care about the taxes, has a much better chance of becoming reality than anything coming out of the GOP for the last 40 years.

          1. The Politico article at the end of your link 108944 is an article written 02/06/2020 05:09 AM EST .  Before New Hampshire.  Before Debate IX.  Before Nevada. 

            Bitecofer doesn’t see much of a downside to a candidate like Bernie Sanders. But she doesn’t see much of an upside either, since ideology isn’t as big a motivator as identity, and since Sanders did not in fact bring hordes of new voters to the polls in 2016.

            Thus far, Sanders has not brought hordes of new voters to the contests of 2020, either. Nevada, the latest example, is bigger than 2016 by perhaps 20% — but it had a few changes, including 4 days of early voting that did not require people to show up at a particular time and place.  Even with the added convenience of early preferential voting, it appears to be 7-8% smaller than the 2008 turnout — and Nevada has about a 14% larger population than it did in 2008.

            1. to be clear 
              A. I wish there was going to be a better D nominee 2020 – but Obama can’t run again.

              II. I don’t which article was referenced.

              3. Whoever is the nominee has my enthusiastic support.
              And in the meantime all D candidates are great, Trump is unfit.

          1. You might just get a chance to do that. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Gabbard independent run, with a hefty covert assist from GOP dark money, to siphon off votes from whoever wins the Dem pie fight.

            2. Agree. As we get closer to November, Trump/GOP/Putin (a unified front if there ever was one) will panic, and decide they have to have an independent candidate to draw votes away from the Dem. It may not be Tulsi but she seems to be the most likely one waiting in the wings.

  4. The damage the private insurance industry, particularly short term junk plans, could do by dissuading vulnerable or infected members of the public from seeking care during a pandemic is an argument for having a more rational health care system https://t.co/olejjXzWwd

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) February 24, 2020

    Is It a Pandemic Yet: It’s now clear that the coronavirus epidemic was never going to be contained. What’s next?

    It’s now clear that the epidemic was never going to be contained. At most, its spread was slowed by the lockdown imposed in China and other countries’ efforts to identify infected people and anyone they might have been in contact with.

    Covid-19 seems to spread like influenza, through the air, person to person. Unlike Ebola, SARS and MERS, individuals can transmit this coronavirus before the onset of symptoms or even if they don’t become ill. An infected person appears to spread the disease to an average of 2.6 people. After 10 generations of transmission, with each taking about five or six days, that one initial case has spawned more than 3,500, most with no or mild symptoms, yet probably infectious. The fact that mild cases are difficult to differentiate from colds or the flu only complicates the diagnosis.

      1. which variant of "the flu" are you speaking of?   and what signs of "danger" are you concerned about?

        So far, it has infected far fewer people than the complete sweep of a year of flu around the world.  Without knowing how many people were exposed and how many developed disease from exposure, it is almost impossible to guess if it spreads more or less than flu we've been experiencing for the past 20 years or so. Without knowing how many people got the disease (since some experience only cold or flu symptoms and are never confirmed), we don't know the mortality rate — but apparently, it appears to be slightly worse than flu of the past 20 years. 

        If you look beyond statistics of illness and deaths, this even is MUCH worse than the background level of flu. Venice cancelled Carnival — the first time since its return in 1979, as best I can tell. One airline industry analysis firm says "200,000 flights have now been canceled as a result of the outbreak."  An environmental monitor says "Over [two week] period in 2019, China emitted 400 million metric tonnes of carbon dioxide; this year's figure is likely closer to 300 million metric tonnes." Numerous economists have said there is a chance of a recession in China (two quarters of negative GDP), down from last year's "slow" growth of over 6%.  Goldman Sachs now predicts "U.S. GDP growth forecast to just 1.2% from 1.4%, seeing a more severe drag from the epidemic."  Dow Jones index is down over 1,000 points today, apparently tightly related to levels of concern about economic impacts. 

    1. I'm looking forward to seeing how that many ballots could escape notice — by EVERYONE. 

      So much for the vaunted "audit" of the 2018 Secretary of State.

      I'd think political parties might wonder about about ~1% of the county's vote going missing. 

      Some voters actually check to see if their ballot is received and counted — so none of those 600 people did?

      1. According to the article, they didn't check the box outside their office after 5pm on election day.  Since then they assumed it was empty until they went to get the ballots from the current election.

        Not sure what the SoS could do about lax management controls in Mesa County.

        2. SoS could take the election over from the idiot clerk & recorder. It's been done before. Tina Peters is an excellent example of Mesa County's Republicans voting for ideology over competence. See also: Scott, Ray.

      2. It's hard for SoS (or anyone else) to audit if the ballots never hit the scanner. This is a failure of the clerk's office, but also possibly a breakdown in the operation of election judges. Not sure what election security procedures fot ballot drop-off boxes are supposed to be…

  6. Craig Silverman really vents in this column.  Even Cory Gardner gets hammered which was the only surprising thing to me he said.

    Vlad had to especially enjoy Trump’s new puppet show starring Cory Gardner. Right there on a Colorado stage, Trump tamed this former harsh critic.

    Gardner paid humiliating public homage. Once the determined sponsor of DASKA legislation harshly sanctioning Russia, Sen. Gardner’s now locked arms with Putin’s puppet.  These Republican politicians are so simple to capture.

    What an easy mark Trump was for Putin. Almost as simple as the NRA. Kleptocracy is attractive to kleptomaniacs. Rake and take other people’s money, and any woman you want. Trump’s been rescued by Russian money many times since he blew through his own Daddy’s money. Russian debts come due. 

     

  9. OH Noes!
    We’ll have to vote for Humphrey Nixon!

    Biden polling plus 3 in SC. 
    Just 3.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-6824.html

    But wait – 

    “By the end of Super Tuesday, FiveThirtyEight estimates that Sanders will have earned about 4 out of 10 delegates that will have been awarded.”

     

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/19/democratic-primaries-may-soon-have-an-uncatchable-leader-who-cant-clinch-nomination/

     

    Someone (s) with support has to drop.
    Who among them will swallow their ego and get out now? Amy better than expected Klobuchar?  Joe no one ever said firewall Biden? 

    Tulsi who and Mike NDA and big$ dropping now is not going to turn the boat.

    Is it too late to get Jill Stein on the Michigan ballot?

     

  10. Trump signals he’s prepared to give farmers more federal aid

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump signaled Friday that he’s prepared to tap federal coffers again to help farmers suffering from the tariff fights that he initiated.

    The Trump administration over the past two years has committed to providing farmers with $27 billion in assistance. Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue has said that a third year of financial assistance would not be necessary since China had committed to increasing its agriculture purchases under a Phase 1 trade deal.

  11. Ejection Fraction.  Why won’t Sanders release this all important number (according to cardiologists) that discloses the damage his heart sustained from his heart attack and an important indication of his mortality.  

    Whether it’s how much tax rates will be increased, or his support for Castro, or now this, Sanders is anything but transparent.  Unfortunately, it appears to be too little, too late and we’re f**d.

    1. "Why won’t Sanders release this all important number (according to cardiologists) that discloses the damage his heart sustained from his heart attack and an important indication of his mortality."

      The same reason Mike Bloomberg hasn't released all the women from the non-disclosure agreements. There are bad facts in there. 

    2. That brings back memories. Remember Trump's 2016 bullshit medical disclosure, the one-paragraph letter signed by some gastroenterologist that read like it was penned by Trump himself (Donald Trump has  terrific blood pressure, the best blood pressure; please don't be jealous of Donald Trump's blood pressure)? Good times! Wasn't exactly outcome-determinative either.

      Ejection fraction is "all important" if pacemaker implantation is contemplated. After 40 years of heavy smoking and a heart attack/quintuple bypass surgery in 2008, my EF was 35%. That's considered moderately impaired, but it didn't preclude the pacemaker implantation procedure I had about a month later. When that pacemaker crapped out in 2018, my cardiologist ordered an echocardiogram to check EF. She explained that for patients with an EF under 30%, considered a severe impairment, the preferred course is implanting a defibrillator. Fortunately enough, I was still over 30% and so received a shiny new pacemaker with an improved battery that will almost certainly outlive me.

      Unless they plan to implant a pacemaker in Bernie, or his EF is so low that he needs an implanted defibrillator, his EF isn't a big deal. The principal effect of releasing the number would surely be a tsunami of internet Dunning Kruger drivel, a commodity with an already oversaturated market.

  12. Paul Krugman has a short column from yesterday about Bernie:

    Look, I know the primaries aren’t over, and it’s still possible that Democratic centrists will get their act together. But Bernie Sanders is now the clear favorite for the Democratic nomination. There are many things to say about that, but the most important is that he is NOT a left-leaning version of Trump. Even if you disagree with his ideas, he’s not a wannabe authoritarian ruler.

    America under a Sanders presidency would still be America, both because Sanders is an infinitely better human being than Trump and because the Democratic Party wouldn’t enable abuse of power the way Republicans have.

    And if you’re worried about his economic agenda, what’s your concern, exactly? That he’ll raise taxes on the rich part way back to what they were under Dwight Eisenhower? That he’ll run budget deficits? Trump is doing that already — and the economic effects have been positive.

    I’m more concerned about (a) the electability of someone who says he’s a socialist even though he isn’t and (b) if he does win, whether he’ll squander political capital on unwinnable fights like abolishing private health insurance. But if he’s the nominee, it’s the job of Dems to make him electable if at all possible.

    Freedom is on the line.

    Bernie is not my first, second or even third choice, but… what Paul just said

    1. Market crashed today – you know that's Bernie's fault.

      And good luck with moderate voting strategy: you get the candidate you prefer or you tell everyone to eff off and break out your 4More! gear.

    2. What harry said.  As a candidate I hate bernie.  As a human being, I kind of like the grouchy old millionaire.  But I will vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is.

      Even bernie.

      Even a billionaire.

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