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July 25, 2019 07:05 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 57 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience.”

–George Bernard Shaw

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57 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Who says Vlad doesn't have a sense of humor? 

    Turning Point USA looking into how altered presidential seal appeared during Trump introduction

    According to the Post, the seal also featured a banner reading "45 es un titere,” Spanish for “45 is a puppet,” and can be seen in images and video from the event. 

    A spokesman for the group told The Washington Post Wednesday night he was still looking into who was responsible for the seal, which appeared to feature an image of a two-headed eagle — an image similar to that on Russia's coat of arms — holding a bunch of golf clubs.

  2. https://magellanstrategies.com/magellan-strategies-colorado-survey-2020-voters/

    "Before reviewing the survey results, it is important to understand the major subgroups among likely 2020 general election voters in Colorado. Considering the significant growth of unaffiliated voters in the state, and the fact that they comprised 34% of turnout in the 2018 midterm, we are projecting that unaffiliated/other party voters will make up 37% of turnout in 2020. Democratic voters have been remarkably steady at 33% of turnout whether in midterm or presidential elections, and that is where we have them projected for next year. That leaves Republicans trailing at 30% of turnout."

  3. Pelosi rebuffs Nadler on impeachment after Mueller flop

    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler pushed to launch impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump during a closed-door meeting Wednesday, only to be rebuffed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, according to four sources familiar with the discussions.

    At a caucus meeting following the hotly anticipated testimony of special counsel Robert Mueller, Nadler suggested that several House committee chairs could begin drafting articles of impeachment against Trump. Pelosi called the idea premature, said the sources.

      1. Premature is not never.

        Get the debt ceiling raised and the budget passed, let the courts reach & enforce some decisions on subpoenas, get beyond summer vacations so people are paying greater attention to what is going on (and Representatives and their staff are more prepared for a sustained effort). 

        We know Republicans won't convict, so handing the Senate the issue in February, after ballots are out for Super Tuesday, could make for good theater.

        1. Beyond Pelosi: Why impeachment can’t penetrate the cult of D.C. savvy.

          Every time I see Nancy Pelosi patiently spell out the higher political wisdom of refraining from impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump, I think of Alan Greenspan. That’s obviously not because the speaker of the House and the famously tight-lipped former Fed chair have any affinities of political outlook or personal temperament. Rather, it’s because as a former financial journalist, I’m reminded of how Greenspan’s observers in the financial industry tended to project all manner of genius onto him simply because he refused to articulate, in any concrete way that involved anything so crass as a narrative, what he was thinking or doing. For market watchers and finance industry savants, Greenspan was a human koan upon which they were expected to puzzle out their own economic enlightenment. If you didn’t get it, you were the idiot. 

          And now I get the sense that Pelosi’s refusal to articulate her strategy with regard to Trump is being met with the same familiar projection of assumed good faith and competence. Most important, her imputed leadership savvy, like Greenspan’s long pre-crash tour atop the Fed, is routinely taken for granted as the most accurate and astute analysis of The Current Situation that will either one day produce, or is already leading to, a well-thought-out, nimble, and unassailable tactical response.

        2. Seems quite logical.

          No Pelosi fan here, but I give her props for craftiness and resolve. She is waiting for asshole to take more rope. If she pulls the plug before it is a full blown flood of evidence, it may fizzle.. Better a hurricane of impeachment, than a slowly growing tide?

    2. Trump: shoots someone on 5th Avenue, denies he did it, blames the media for covering it. His base cheers.

      Chairman Buck, Conman Cory: That wasn’t nice and I wouldn’t do it, but “Look- at the end of the day, the economy is what’s important.” The base applauds wildly.

      Heavily armed white nationalists: attack a mosque and a synogogue, killing dozens of worshippers. Media, Trump: thoughts and prayers. Gun industry: They would have been more effective with these silencers and magazine extenders, now BOGO for $99.99 each. Hurry before Pelosi comes for your guns!! The base hurries to buy more guns.

      House Democrats: Start impeachment inquiries – before it’s too late! The Democratic base cheers. 

      Pelosi: It’s premature- we need more evidence. We must have a guaranteed win before we start. Sends a strongly worded letter of censure to Trump.

      Trump: smirks, and on the advice of Putin and Kim Jong Un, suspends Congress indefinitely. Tweets that America has now finally been made great again. 

      Base goes wild.

       

       

      2. Mama, this is as likely a scenario as any – though on many days I think the negative consequences of the Pelosi approach could be far more horrifying than what you've listed.

        And I also wonder if she's considered this negative consequence: A significant number of progressive activists who will help register voters and get out the vote (turnout will be beyond critical in 2020) will be so turned off by the message Congressional Democrats are sending (the Pelosians see no evil, hear no evil, and smell no evil when it comes to Trump and his Russian helpers), that they will give up on the Democratic Party altogether.

        1. Or try this one.  House narrowly votes to impeach on a mostly party line vote.  The Senate, where conviction takes 67 votes, hands Trump a rousing victory,  54-46, against conviction.  Trump rides the vindication to re-election.  Senate stays Republican as Dems lose in several states that Trump carries.  Ruth Bader Ginsberg dies.

          Trump appoints ultra right winger to court. Plus, by the end of Trumps eight years in office, he has named about half the federal judiciary. Supine Senate confirms every one.
          But it is all worth it, because before America plunged irretrivably into fascism, four far-left freshman felt really good for a couple days because they pushed impeachment through the house.

          1. But V., you are missing the point. Impeaching him is the right thing to do. Damn the consequences! Our sense of self-righteous indignation will be sated!

             

        2. A significant number of progressive activists who will help register voters and get out the vote (turnout will be beyond critical in 2020) will be so turned off by the message Congressional Democrats are sending (the Pelosians see no evil, hear no evil, and smell no evil when it comes to Trump and his Russian helpers), that they will give up on the Democratic Party altogether.

          Ah, the revenge of the Jilliots threatens us again.

          1. Nope. I'm not supporting any third-party candidates, never have. I can't give you a full rundown of my decades of activism or I would identify myself here (maybe someday I'll do that). I'm talking about people like me – a lifelong Democrat for whom it wouldn't take much to just give up on the party. Look at the Republican tactics vs the Democratic tactics these days – taking a knife to a gunfight does not begin to illustrate how bad it is. This is not about policy – it's about how to defeat a lying, narcissistic, evil, sick traitor i.e. Trump. If the Dems don't take this fight on and play by the new rules, our democracy is done.

            1. Agreed. 

              I learned during the oil and gas rule wars of ten years ago. Republicans all use the same tactics nowadays. When you look at ANY Republican, you should see Mitch McConnell standing there.

              Vote Blue!…No Matter Who!

               

        3. Another scenario is that our resident corporate trolls, will continue to look at the past and pretend they can see the future.

          When responses to ANY subject inevitably lead to the same straw men…the same red herrings, the same breathless concern that only they understand politics.

          I pretty much ignore the blada-blada when it is that automatic.

          1. Corporate trolls? Oh, you mean the DINOsaurs. Meh.  Progress can be slowed or even briefly reversed, but it can't be stopped.  Those that refuse to evolve will eventually die off, and then the world can move on. 

          2. I do talk about the past to try to prevent the same stupid mistakes from being made again and again.

            2000:  George Bush and Al Gore are both too boring. There is no difference between the two. Did you know Gore was a founding member of the DLC? Let's go with the progressive in the race – Ralph Nader. How did that work out?

            If that had been the one and only time it happened, I would shut up. But it wasn't. 

            2016:  Hillary is a corporate hack – the whore of Wall St. The system is rigged! Goldman Sachs sucks! Let's go with the progressive alternative in the race – Jill Stein.

            As long as you LWNJs are hell bent on doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different, I will remind you of how it worked the last time.

                    1. Who's we? You and the rest of the Dirty Old DINO club?  Not exactly a consensus.  I really don't feel like turning you on today, Bob.  It's just too gross. 

                    2. Six dominatrix, hired by a freak.

                      Whaling on Pervy each day of the week.

                      They don't want to break animal cruelty laws.

                      So at least he gets Sunday off for a pause.

                      Burma Shave

                    3. Give it a fucking rest, Voyageur, or create your own thread so you and Curmy can whale on each other without ruining another thread for everyone else. Do you imagine that people are entertained by your repetitive, juvenile master-baiting? 

                      If Curmy were female ( and we don’t know that he/she isn’t) , he/she could make a great case for persistent sexual cyber-bullying, while Pols moderators let it go on indefinitely.

                      And yes, males can also be sexually harassed. Y’all like to joke about it, but I’ve seen that the shame and pain is real.

                    4. Hey, La Pomposa, is that "Ride of the Valkyries" I hear?  Or just the daily outburst of a common scold?

                      If Pervy were female?

                      But we know he's not?

                      Even by your standards, that's pretty dumb.

                      but at least your elegance of language is on display!

                    5. Seriously, Bob…

                      Do you want this to be your legacy? Is this how you want to be remembered?  

                    6. Begging for mercy, Pervy?  I thought you'd just try to break the rule agains t "outing" again, for what I guess would be the sixth time.  Or have you finally realized that the one-trick pony thing doesn't work more than once?  

                      you want me to lay off your pervy ways?  Easy.  Go away.  Find some right wing blog where your sneering might fit in.  Or, b,

                      grow up.  Stop being a troll.  Contribute something positive or of value.

                      Or, finally, just face the fact that I will mop the floor with you when you go troll.  You make it so easy by giving me ammunition like saying you hang with six dominatrixes.

                      even you have to be smart enough to realize that's a very stupid thing to say.

                      So, ideally, go away.

                      If you stay, try to be at least a little civil.

                      If you keep on trolling, you'll keep on getting smacked about.  You just aren't quick witted enough to play that game.

                    7. All I've done is respond to your attacks, Bob.  Stop pretending you're only trying to keep the peace.  You're a wannabe bully, a liar, and an incredibly creepy old lech.  

                      Out you? You keep whimpering about "breaking the rules" by outing you.  You're already out to the few dozen people who read this blog.   You don't have anything to fear from them knowing your dirty little secret, how Bob loves to be a naughty boy online, attacking women and anyone he feels is "different" from his Mayberry RFD vision of humanity.    

                      You have nothing to fear from anyone here knowing your dirty little secret, Bob.  Absolutely nothing. 

                    8. And those six dominatrix, do you still claim you don't pay for their services, Pervy?  You met them in your bowling league?

                      Tee hee, har de har har.

                    9. They're friends, you creepy, addled old lech.  There's no professional relationship. Do you have any concept of that? 

                    10. You met them at your Bible study?  You're trying to reform them?  Tee hee, ha ha, ho ho, har de har har.

                      Six dominatrix, hired by a freak…

                    11. Mainstream religion isn't my scene, but there are all kinds of places to meet unique people who do things other than sitting on their ass and typing; art shows, underground music venues, LGBTQ support groups…

                      You know, Bob…there's more to social life than waddling around in an XXXXXXL leather corset -er, vest at the Marriott Civic Center. 

                      But, one thing I've learned from my friends; kink-shaming isn't cool.

                      Learn when to leave things alone, Bobby.

                    12. You met them on Craig's list before the fuzz made them take that section down, Pervy.  Ain't no use lying about it , Pervey, nobody believes you just happen to know six professional dominatrixes b ecause they were in your book club.  Own up, then shut up, Pervy.  We're tired of your lies and tired of you.

                    13. You really don't need me for this convo, Bobby…your fantasies, as lame and dated as they are, have pretty much taken over.  The ironic thing is that the truth, as mudane as it is, is still light-years better than anything your sweaty little id can conjure up. 

                      Of course, you’d shriek and call me a liar, then, too. Not that I’d share any details; as I’ve said before, the possibility of having a Creepus Emeritus like you running their, sticky, slimy thoughts over anyone I care about is still abhorrent. So, you’ll have to do with your own twisted little inner life.

                      You know what they say about guys who wear bolo ties….  LOL  

            2. 2000 Al Gore won – but the election was stolen by SCOTUS – and then he surrendered because he didn’t want to be divisive… or did you forget?

              2016 Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million – but hundreds of thousands of votes were suppressed in key states – Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida . 

              I guess it’s always easier and more satisfying to blame your fellow Democrats – much easier than blaming the real election thieves and working to stop them from doing it again. 

              2. Nobody is blaming Democrats for 2000, we're blaming egomaniac Ralph Nader and the decisive albeit imbecilic band of left whackos who preferred him to Gore and elected Bush.

                As to Hillary, yes,the Jilliots threw the election to Trump.  So did voter suppression.  Like a basketball game decided 97-96, every missed shot and made shot can be said to be decisive.

              3. MJ: you can maybe make a case about Jill Stein and the 2016 election. The 2000 election was stolen in Florida by Ralph Nader's ego, not the SCOTUS.

    3. I'm in the camp of Investigate rather than the camp of Impeach.

      If Trump is impeached, he could pardon everybody and their brothers, turn over the reins to Pence, get a personal pardon, and go back to his golfing.

      In the Investigate universe, all of Trump's crimes are collected and filed, ready for the next Justice Department.

      I understand that Impeachment has a moral imperative. But more importantly, Impeachment is a political process more than a legal process. The important questions for me are:

      Will impeachment help or hurt the Democratic Presidential candidate's chances in 2020?

      Will impeachment help or hurt the Democratic Parties campaigns in the House, Senate and the states?

      2. Note that the first step in the process is (a) what Nadler wants and Pelosi refuses; and (b) what you've asked for.

        From Wikipedia: Impeachment in the United States:

        Procedure

        At the federal level, the impeachment process is a three-step procedure.

        • First, the Congress investigates. This investigation typically begins in the House Judiciary Committee, but may begin elsewhere. For example, the Nixon impeachment inquiry began in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The facts that led to impeachment of Bill Clinton were first discovered in the course of an investigation by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr.
        • Second, the House of Representatives must pass, by a simple majority of those present and voting, articles of impeachment, which constitute the formal allegation or allegations. Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached".
        • Third, the Senate tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a president, the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the proceedings. For the impeachment of any other official, the Constitution is silent on who shall preside, suggesting that this role falls to the Senate's usual presiding officer, the President of the Senate who is also the Vice President of the United States. Conviction in the Senate requires a two-thirds vote. The result of conviction is removal from office.

        1. The precisely right questions. The sure-fire way to get Trump out of the White House is to beat him in the 2020 election. Badly.

          Register voters and GOTV. The rest is noise.

           

           

      5. I'm with you, too, PH. Just let the investigations roll on from now until 3 Nov. 2020. The more that is revealed by them, the more of those squishy, "what's the worst that could happen" 2016 Trump voters we peel off.
        And while there are no faultless 2020 Dems running, one who gives as good as they get and isn't afraid to point to all the corruption found in the ongoing investigations just may be able to take him out of there.  

  4. California and automakers make an end run around Trump's Environmental Destruction Agency.

    Four of the world’s largest automakers, including the Ford Motor Company, have struck a deal with California to reduce tailpipe pollution, in a setback to the Trump administration as it prepares to weaken national emissions standards and revoke states’ rights to set their own such rules.

    While Trump administration officials in the White House and Environmental Protection Agency have been working on a plan to drastically weaken Obama-era rules on planet-warming vehicle pollution, four automakers — Ford, Honda, Volkswagen Group of America and BMW of North America — have been holding secretive talks in Sacramento on a plan to move forward with the standards in California, the nation’s largest auto market. And on Thursday, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California said he was “very confident” that more automakers would join the deal in the coming days.

  6. If Curmy were female ( and we don’t know that he/she isn’t) , he/she could make a great case for persistent sexual cyber-bullying, while Pols moderators let it go on indefinitely.

    And if my aunt had testicles, she's be my uncle. But I digress. Now we are looking for hypothetical situations for claims of victim-hood.

    BTW, I believe Curmy has "outted" himself as a heterosexual male.

      3. Just don't let it get to you, Curmie.

        2RV, I will call them, have obsessions, but I am sure they have loving mothers and are good to their pets. Forgive them.😊

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