Weekend Open Thread

“The more desperate you are, the more mistakes you make.”

–Canelo Alvarez

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51 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. kwtreemamajama55 says:

    #Lights for Liberty , a coalition of groups, organized hundreds of protests all over the country last night to protest the inhumane conditions migrants are enduring at Trump's concentration camps. All actions featured lights, (candles, flashlights, LEDs, etc – as a visible way to say #dontlookaway. Thank you to all who participated across the country and around the world. We will put a stop to this, because "Never Again means Now".

    Noweasels wrote a good overview piece on Daily Kos: A Wave of Protests

    Hundreds of people gathered in Aurora at the GEO center where about 800 migrants (at last estimate) are being detained. Here's the facebook page for that group.

    clinic escort reported on twitter from the GEO protest in Aurora . Apparently, 1000 or so showed up, and 100 or so went onto the GEO property in an act of civil disobedience and to let detainees know they were supported. The picture below is from clinic escort:

    Meanwhile, VP Mike Pence visited a detention center, where he greeted views of men crowded into cages, stinking (because they can't wash) with his usual disapproving frowny face and said that he "couldn't be more pleased". Pence also expressed his outrage, not at the horrific conditions, but at people calling these “concentration camps”.

    Video coverage of Pence’s visit, from Al Jazeera here.

    CNN and CBS video of conditions inside camps from surprise visits last week show hundreds of people in standing-room-only enclosures, without access to beds, washing, clothing, or nutritious food. The United Nations will soon be censuring the US for our violations of human rights agreements.

    • Powerful PearPowerful Pear says:

      1000 or so people show up; lets say it’s 2000 people and 200 gangsters take down the American flag, put up the Mexican flag and the spray paint the American flag with graffiti. As you described it, civil disobedience, a great euphemism. Yeah this is how you persuade people to join your effort. Too bad the Indivisible gang didn’t trot out the Red Riding Hood girls to make it a complete spectacle. 998,000 people did not make it to your protest. If the alarm bells and the red flashing lights are not going off in your brain, saying this is not a winning issue you are not the trained activist I though you were. But that’s OK, really, keep it going.

      Hell, it even gives me hope that Cory Gardner will win independent support and be re-elected.

      • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

        I more than half expect the flag stunt was the work of agents provocateurs, in a lame attempt to neutralize the message of the protest. I don't put anything past MAGAts.

      • Diogenesdemar says:

        Figures that simpleton, snowflake pfucks would get their tighty-whiteys in a bunch more about some piece of cloth, that is daily dishonored by this dishonest, despicable, racist grifter administration, than any of the ideals it’s supposed to represent . . .

      • kwtreemamajama55 says:

        The "flag stunt" was clearly the work of provocateurs who wanted to get a visual meme about the "scary Mexicans" to send around on social media. What happened: a group of about 10 people, some of whom were masked, broke off from the main protest that was staying on the sidewalks.

        This group went to the flagpole, pulled down the American flag, hoisted the Mexican flag, and took video with a masked dark haired person dragging the American flag on the ground. They were prepared with climbing gear, a Mexican flag, masks, and video. When people from the main group tried to stop them, (because many in the main group were veterans, patriots, and were offended by the stunt), the main group activists were attacked. You can read about the incident in the Denver Post here. Cristian Solano-Cordova, a Dreamer and a student leader, had this to say about it:

        “These people didn’t take us into consideration,” Solano-Córdova said. “We’re all extremely angry. They actually put us in danger.”

        And the provocateurs got the visual that they wanted, which was the main goal of the "flag stunt", and that picture has now gone viral. You've probably shared it quite a few times yourself, Pear.

        • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

          My Facebook feed has half-a-dozen Wray-ites incensed by the DemocRATS and their hatred for ‘Merika. I may have time to engage them later tonight but for now they’re creating great narrative for the next Gardner/Buck town hall.

    • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

      How about we let the markets fix this? We have more than enough places of worship in the US to adopt these families while they await their asylum hearings. For $775/day/person I can’t imagine the response you’d get from the Christian community (and non-Christian communities of social justice) to foster these families.  We don’t have a compassion deficit outside of the Trump-Gorka-Steven Miller clan, and given the amount of dollars we’re willing to throw at Trumps private prison buddies for this debacle we clearly don’t have a monetary resource problem.  I assume if he can find SCOTUS work-arounds with an EO he could implement a proposal like this in the same way.

       

       

      • kwtreemamajama55 says:

        Hundreds of churches across the country are providing sanctuary for immigrants and homeless people for free now. There is an interdenominational network of shelters. Churches literally move in beds and furniture into sanctuaries or classrooms in the church building,  and care for families for a week at a time.

        It used to be called Interfaith Hospitality Network (IHN). Now IHN split into a general homelessness support services group, and the church-sponsored housing, which is now called Family Promise.

        The Unitarian church I go to now shelters a family one week a month on a rotating basis. Jeanette Vizguerra has been given sanctuary at the First Unitarian Society. Many other congregations do what they can.

        To your point, churches are a largely untapped resource that could indeed help solve the problem of where migrants can go. Under the Obama administration, people seeking asylum would have an initial hearing where they presented their asylum case. Many were then given ankle bracelets to keep track of them, and a court date to hear their asylum claim formally. In the meantime, migrants were free to move around the country, get jobs, seek shelter, etc. Kids could go to school. I've had several of these children over the years.

        Even in Trump's America, people are generally kind to the stranger, as your good book commands.

  2. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    Welp, looks like he found his man parts for the Summit Revival

    In Front Of Conservative Crowd, Sen. Gardner Lays Into Democratic Agenda

    Let me fix a couple of things for you: 

    The attack on faith is a second front in Imposing our version of the gospel attack on freedom, and an attempt to impose our faith on the majority of Coloradans, silencing conservative voices is just one of their  our goal… to enact a radical socialist agenda based on the Prosperity Gospel,” said Gardner. “Just take a look at the Green New Deal. The left knows it isn't popular, I ignored the popularity of green energy mandates in Colorado but they continue now I pretend to advocate for it because, you know, it's election season and frankly I fooled everyone last time around. And when you look at it closer, you'll see that it's nothing more it's a way to bring new opportunities to rural America (just like we did here in Colorado with Amendment 37, the bold and visionary Ritter New Energy Economy agenda, and the falsely-maligned SB-252) than a very thinly veiled attempt a bold and thoughtful policy proposal to implement transition the socialist agenda to a 21st-century economy and fundamentally change bring America back into its leadership role this country in the world, converting our vast natural resources while we to gain control of the to energy we use, fusing Yankee ingenuity and technology ingenuity and technology that we create, what car we drive, and what creating millions of new jobs you can or cannot have and addressing our climate challenges. 

    To erase's any doubt about who our junior senator is at his core:

  3. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    Math is hard.

    US government is running out of money faster than expected, Mnuchin warns

    The federal government has not been able to borrow money since March, when congressionally-mandated borrowing limits went back into force. The US Treasury, which is facing a growing deficit thanks in part to President Donald Trump's 2017 tax cuts, had said it had enough cash to last until the fall.

     

    About the national debt elimination plan? Some #StableGenius should call Wharton and ask for his daddy’s money back.

    • RepealAndReplace says:

      That is hard to understand. Where is all that money with which Mnuchin and his charming wife, Louise Hinton, were photographed sometime back in the Treasury Department vault?

      Is it possible that they squandered it on the D.C. July 4th parade???

      • MADCO says:

        Obviously, to get more revenue we should cut taxes and increase spending more.

        The problem is they didn't cut and spend enough last time.

         

         

        • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

          Stop it. You’re arousing Arthur Laffer. 

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            The Laffer curve only works if you spend the revenue increase from the tax cuts on military items.

            • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

              Maybe they should try spending it on another M: milk cows?  Only Trump could go stand before farmers in a state that leads the nation in farm bankruptcies, losing two dairy farms each and every day, and say, "oh, were doing fine – I come with good tidings, we're #OverTheHump!!"

              (this is a long but interesting read):

              President Trump in Milwaukee says farmers are 'over the hump' as dairy farms continue to close in Wisconsin

              Nearly 700 Wisconsin farms were shut down last year by owners used to enduring a brutal workload and hard times, calling it quits in a downturn now headed into its fifth year. In 2018, for the third straight year, Wisconsin led the nation in farm bankruptcies. 

              "If he's saying farmers are over the hump, he would be badly mistaken," said Darin Von Ruden, a third generation dairy farmer from Westby and president of the Wisconsin Farmers Union. "In order to get over the hump we need to stop losing dairy farms."

              We're here today to celebrate the triumphant return of American manufacturing," Trump said.

              The president on Friday didn't mention Milwaukee's flagship manufacturer Harley-Davidson — a company he has repeatedly criticized for moving manufacturing overseas — or the Foxconn project Trump negotiated himself but has been scaled back, and its promise of 13,000 jobs all but dismissed. 

               

              • MADCO says:

                Foxconn is almost perfectly named.

                Dooh Mibor Freedom Con wouldda been a hair better.

                 

                If the Wisconsin Dairy industry thinks any one in this administration is going to help, they should just sell now and give it up. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

                • Diogenesdemar says:

                  I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t “over the hump”? . . . 

                  The question is why aren’t all the FOX cons “over the hump,” yet? . . . 

                  . . . just another ‘effin lie!

                   

                   

                   

              • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

                Over the hump and sliding downhill fast.

                The Atlanta Fed's estimating tool, GDPNow, a model estimate for real GDP growth (seasonally adjusted annual rate), is now estimating the second quarter of 2019 at 1.4 percent.

                • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

                  Speaking of….

                  This nice lady from Fox Business (and the pro-MAGA comments on the thread) show just how the lemmings operate: (1) she is so thrilled that China's Y/Y GDP growth has slipped to 6.2% (2) from the comments you'd never know that our own GDP growth is expected to be one-half that of China.  

                  Jump on over to Zero Hedge for some, shall we say, more comprehensive analysis

                  So while on one hand, the more widely followed GDP print indicates continued slowdown in the overall economy and adds to the pressure Chinese policy makers face as they attempt to negotiate a deal with the US – and while Chinese negotiators are talking with their U.S. counterparts again, there is no certainty that a deal will be reached – the sharp rebound in all three more contemporaneous indicators suggests that Beijing may finally be regaining control of China following some of the biggest credit injections on record as we discussed on Saturday.

          • kwtreemamajama55 says:

            I assume it curves to the right when it's aroused?

  4. PseudonymousPseudonymous says:

    "Top Democrats" sharing around a poll (without producing the poll, of course) of people who won't vote for Democrats and leaking it to Axios to make sure everyone is terrified of young, leftist, POC congresswomen.

    Exclusive poll: AOC defining Dems in swing states

     

    • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

      Given each of these women represent more people than each of the four smallest US states I think we’re a big enough tent to accommodate their agendas. 

      • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

        Huh? 

        AOC district population shows up as 691,715

        So, more than 2 states (WY and VT).  Less than all the others (and the unrepresented DC). 

        But yeah, big tent, allow for diversity.  One more point … those who have tangled with AOC seem to come out even, at best, and usually get beat.

        • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

          My bad…I was using  the average Congressional district (747,000) as my measure.  Alaska and North Dakota now have just over 700,000 but you get the point (and my statement would be true for any member of Congress, not just AOC). When she’s described as representing ‘a burrough in NYC’ it’s fun to put that in contex. Like the fact there are more people in Aurora now than live on the western slope.

    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

      I call BS. If DNC can't show the poll, it's not valid. It is probably the internal poll of a moderate Dem who is considering primarying AOC or another of the "squad" in 2020.  Possibly a Siena poll or an Axios/Survey Monkey online poll.

      New York Dems could redraw Ocasio-Cortez' district, but there would be hell to pay because of her huge name recognition and following. One possible outcome of redistricting could be that AOC could primary Chuck Schumer.

      "Establishment" Dems would be better off letting Republicans carry the weight of opposing AOC in 2020. Otherwide, young unaffiliated Democrats will continue to flee the Democratic party.

      On the issue of socialism, Gallup found that more Democrats are positive than negative about it in 2018.

      Pelosi: "Socialism is not the view of the Democratic party."

      Tom Perez, DNC Chair: [AOC] represents the future of our party."

      "

       

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        Well, the secret poll is bolstered by the last 50 years of history.

        Ask Presidents George McGovern, Ted Kennedy, Walter Mondale, and Michael Dukakis. None was actually a socialist but each was accused of being one and that alone was enough to sink each.

        But this time it will be different because if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you eventually get a different result?

        • kwtreemamajama55 says:

          And 4 term FDR? Great Society LBJ? They were both called Socialist, and worse. It was the Vietnam War, not war on poverty, that made LBJ a one termer. 

          How about 2 term Obama? 2 term Clinton? They were certainly supposed to bring about the End Times of capitalism as we know it. These great Presidents all ran (well, LBJ as JFKs veep) on platforms of increasing social services and the safety net, raising taxes on wealthy, and not much difference between actual policy of Sanders or Warren today. 

          Moral: you can’t let the pumped up hysteria of corporate shills scare you away from good candidates. They will always scream “socialism” about any policy that takes a dime away from the wealthiest and puts that dime in the pockets of the neediest.

           

           

          • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

            "That alone was enough to sink each" is the false premise upon which that statement was formulated. Handy if you are trying to make a point…but wrong.

          • RepealAndReplace says:

            FDR did indeed win four terms albeit by smaller margins in 1940 and 1944 than in 1936. There was also that pesky matter of World War II that may have influenced some voters.

            As for LBJ and the Great Society, Johnson did win a landslide in 1964. And he cashed in all that political capital.

            But by 1966, as the price tag on the Great Society was  going up, folks had buyer's remorse. The Dems won 295 seats in the House in '64 only to lose 48 of them in '66. And of course, we know what happened in 1968.

        • MADCO says:

          Every D has , is or will be accused of being socialist.

          Some still win.
           

  5. CaninesCanines says:

    Michael Bennet's noted political positions highlighted in Iowa City Press-Citizen news report:

    Democrats could lose Colorado if Bernie Sanders is nominee, Michael Bennet says

    • gertie97 says:

      Bennet is right, IMHO.

    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

      Michael Bennet must have forgotten that Colorado is pretty pro-Sanders. Bernie Sanders carried Colorado caucuses in 2016 41-25 in delegate count. The precinct caucuses had an even wider margin for Sanders: 59- 40%. Bennet forgot that there was a fierce battle over which Democratic candidate would get Colorado's 9 delegate votes, which Clinton won only after one elector was replaced.

      Granted, that's party activists, not primary voters, but Colorado is turning more blue, not more red. Unaffiliateds (outside of deep red counties like Morgan) are swinging Democratic more than Republican. Socialism, particularly the Sanders brand of Democratic Socialism,  doesn't scare most people (sorry  CHB and R&R), even in Colorado.

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        Bernie did win the caucuses in 2016 but next year, Colorado's caucuses are being replaced with partially-open primaries. That means a bigger cross section of voters which in turn means that the ideological fringes in both parties lose much of their sway.

      • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

        I'm not absolutely certain, but I don't think Bennet forgets recent history.

        In my view, Republicans have not yet self-destructed enough to make the Democratic nominee, whoever it may be, irrelevant to who wins the state.  Trump in 2016 STILL got 1.2 million votes, losing by 136,000.  Gary Johnson got more votes than that.

        A flip of 80,000 would mean Trump would have won.  And I'm pretty certain Sanders could be divisive enough to antagonize some to vote for a Republican and others to simply not vote for either of the two major nominees.

    • RepealAndReplace says:

      I will say this…..

      Trump has managed to reunite the establish Dems and the squad with his most recent racist screed. And what does he do next…..doubles down on it by demanding that they apologize to him.

  6. Powerful PearPowerful Pear says:

    Synonyms for provocateur: agitator, demagogue, exciter, firebrand, fomenter, incendiary, incited, instigator kindler, rabble-rouser, Democrat

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