Tuesday Open Thread

“The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way.”

–Josh Billings


42 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Conserv. Head Banger says:

    "Two can play at this game…….."  Especially if one has a sense of fairness.

    What's to keep people from finding the petition circulators for the Galindo recall and providing fake names and/or addresses? Is there a penalty for providing false information to a petition circulator? And if one doesn't give their real name, how would a circulator know a signer is giving false information, unless you hit up the same person twice?

    I’d consider driving up to Greeley and visiting some supermarkets where circulators are likely to be. Anyone else ready to play?

    • unnamed says:

      Tempting.  Though, I think if one did that, they could be found guilty of fraud, if they were discovered.

    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

      If the circulators are doing their jobs right, they should check your ID and address to see that you live in HD50, then check to see if you are a registered voter. So probably fraud is not an option.

      However, they are getting paid $8 / per signature, so they may give you a little leeway if you have at least a valid HD50 address in Greeley.

      Now, they are probably also circulating this National Popular Vote (to repeal it) petition, so that you could sign with a little…..creativity. Actually, NPV circulators are at every crowd event all over the state. It actually might get enough signatures, even though it's the stupidest thing ever. Oops, I remember you said you sort of liked the electoral college, want to keep CO's votes as is. 

      They won't have any Polis recall petitions yet, but will be taking names to contact later. 


      • VoyageurVoyageur says:

        It's not fraud on the part of public to sign as Michael Dee Mousse.  It's free speech.  And it costs the fascists $8 every time.  If they ask for ID, refuse.  They won't, they get paid for Micky Mouse, Donna Duque, Trans Alpine Gaulle and the rest.   It's the secretary of state that checks them.

        T.R. Ansgendar is another great name, as is Teri Ruth Annsinger.  I used to use southern segregationists like James O. Eastland.

        Sign early, sign often.

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Well, "Only eligible electors may sign the petition.  An eligible elector in this case is someone who is eligible to vote in the recall election if there is one. [Section 1-12- 108(5) , C.R.S.]"

      On the other hand, "Any person who has signed a recall petition may request in writing that his or her name be removed from the petition. A signer may do this until three days after the petition has been filed."

      So, if I'm reading correctly, if you are in the appropriate district, you can sign away — sign early, sign often — and then follow up with a written request to the appropriate office verifying the signatures that you want to remove your name.  Done broadly, the petition signature gatherers will get paid multiple times and ultimately, none of the signatures would be added to the final total.

  2. itlduso says:

    Last night CNN showcased five 2020 candidates with back to back town halls: Klobuchar, Warren, Sanders, Harris and Buttigieg.  I only taped and saw the last three, I particularly wished that I had seen Klobuchar.

    To me, I am looking for a candidate that appeals to the majority of voters who don't inhabit our liberal bubble. That is, I'm looking for a candidate who can occasionally say no to ideas that only far left liberals are promoting.  A litmus test question last night was whether currently incarcerated felons should be allowed to vote.  Sanders said yes.  Harris punted and said "we should have a discussion on this." (Harris used that answer again when asked if 16 year olds should be allowed to vote.)  And, Mayor Pete said definitively, "No."  I'm guessing that Warren would have said yes, but that might be unfair to her.  And, I suspect that Klobuchar would have said no because she has said no to ideas like free college tuition while speaking before a college student audience.

    My current preferences are: Buttigieg (although I may be insulated in the bubble on this.  We'll see.) and Klobuchar.  Harris is impressive, but I'm getting tired of her knee-jerk answers to many issues. 

    • Curmudgeon says:

      Not a fan of the idea of incarcerated felons voting; after they've completed their sentence, sure. 

      • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:


        There is a great song on this subject by Merle Haggard titled, "Branded Man" .

        When you have paid your debt…it should feel like it.

        • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

          We were election judges for years, so I'm well-acquainted with that law. It always makes me happy when, in a discussion of an upcoming election, a convicted felon looks down and whispers, "I'm a convicted felon.I'm not allowed to vote.", and I can ask him, "are you off paper?" If he answers, "yes." I tell him, "Colorado restores you to full citizenship once you've done your time. Now log on to govotecolorado and get yourself registered." You ought to see those guys beam. 


      • VoyageurVoyageur says:

        Well, well, Curmy isn't wrong on everything, though he tries to be.  But what about felons on parole?  Colorado bans voting by those incarcerated or on parole, considering that part of the sentence.  I could go either way on the parole portion.

        • Curmudgeon says:

          Give it a rest, Bob. 

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            So, Curmy, you never thought about the parole thingee?  They didn't cover nuance in your GED course?

            • Curmudgeon says:

              Yes, Bob. I have less formal schooling than you do.  A number of people do, I expect.  Whether that makes me worthy of your ridicule is up to the observer, I suppose.

              I'm sorry, but now that I know your history, I can't take offense at anything you say anymore.  But you do what you need to do.  

              • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                So, that's twice you used my real name, Curmy.

                you lied by claiming I used sockpuppets and when I called you out by demanding you name them, you claimed you couldn't because that's against the rules.

                that's a stupid lie, of course, because claiming MJ is really Voyag uer doesn't give any real names away.

                but now now it's bob this, bob that, yes, bob, you're smarter than I am (so is bob's parakeet.  And bob's parakeet is dead.)

                But you misunderstand the education thing, Curmy.  I think it took real courage at your age to go back and get that GED.

                • Curmudgeon says:

                  Oh, I still don't doubt you're using at least one other  sockpuppet, Bob.  Hell, it used to be common knowledge.  The SN you're using isn't the only one you've used here, right? 

                  But go ahead and do what you need to do, and say what you need to say.  As I've said, I honestly can't take offense anymore.  You're a cautionary tale, more than anything. Even to someone you look down on. 

                  • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                    So name it, noodlesoup!  Prove you aren't the lying pos everyone says you are.  And since we're on such a first name basis here, what's your real name?



                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      Bob, it's a documented fact that you posted numerous times using a different name than the one you are currently using; therefore, it's not unreasonable at all to suspect you're using another. After all, you've done it before. I needn't specify which one, because I'm just pointing out you've done so in the past.  Others can decide for themselves.

                      As for who I am, as you've pointed out, I'm nobody.  No one of any consequence.  You, on the other hand, have had a stellar career, and were well-respected in your field; far more of an accomplishment than I or most people could achieve.  Is this really how you want to cap it all off?  Spewing insults and gross innuendo like a 12-year old troll on Reddit? 

                      You were better than this, Bob. 

                      Weren't you?

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      You're lying as usual, liar boy.  Name the "sockpuppet" or shut up.  

                      Can't do it, can you?

                      So back down and crawl back to your hole.

                      And, yes, I am better than you, as you freely admit.

                      But so is my parakeet.

                      And my parakeet is dead!


                    • Curmudgeon says:


                      You have in fact posted under more than one name on this very site; at least one that was different than the one you're using now.  That is undeniable. 

                      I don't need to follow any of your orders, Bob. I'm not one of your former subordinates. So, you can bark all you want, but there's absolutely no authority behind it. 

                      You were better, Bob.  But is this really how you want to be remembered?  

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      Either admit you are a.lyingPOS, or name the supposed sockpuppet.  One or the other, scummy.  And stop using my real name.  It's a violation of the rules.

                      put up or shut up, scummy!

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      I never said it was your real name, Bob. You did. 

                      It's not like your super-double-top-secret identity isn't posted online in several places, including this one.  People are supposed to pretend it wasn't? 

                      So, you call people all the names you like, and throw a tantrum when someone dares to call you by a name you've posted under before? 


                    • itlduso says:

                      Hey!  What happened to my provocative post about the 2020 candidates?   Can't we get back to bashing me for bashing Bernie?


                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      Don't look at me; I'm on your side about Bernie. 

      • PseudonymousPseudonymous says:

        Why not? They're counted for representation purposes in the districts in which they're held (predominantly white districts, unsurprisingly).

        But, a thread.

        Many states implemented disenfranchisement statutes after Reconstruction. For instance, in 1890 MS chose some offenses to be disenfranchising & some not. (Still today, some incarcerated people can vote, but many offenses disenfranchise for life.) https://t.co/JKWYMGY39j pic.twitter.com/z58NcDz2Ym

        — Taniel (@Taniel) April 23, 2019

        • Curmudgeon says:

          Minors are counted for representation purposes, as well.  Doesn't mean they can vote.  

          Serving a sentence means some of your rights are curtailed, as part of paying the debt to society.  

        • VoyageurVoyageur says:

          Why not what, Sudy?  A re you arguing the imprisoned can vote.  (I say no.). Or just that they get the franchise back on release (emphatically, I say they should.). And what about when they are out of prison but still on parole?  Colorado denies parolees a vote.  I'm open to argument on this point and would genuinely like to hear your views.

          • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

            Felons ought to have rights restored, on the theory that we want them to be a part of the community again.

            I'm willing to consider multiple possible positions for when someone convicted should have voting rights (release from incarceration, end of transitional period, end of all aspects of sentence).  I would prefer having a uniform NATIONAL standard, not 50+territories variations which screw with people's understandings of which laws apply to them.

            I'm opposed to "restored for all felons except crimes of  xxxx … " definitions, too. 

            • VoyageurVoyageur says:

              I guess I'm sort of talking myself into restoring voting rights as soon as actual incarceration ends.  The point of probation, after all, is to transition bad guys back to responsible citizenship.  Restoring votes rights could be a step toward that.

              And like John, I don't think the category of crime should matter.  Murderers actually have the lowest recidivism rates.


  3. ParkHill says:

    WOTD from Kate Manne via Ezra Klein. "Electability isn’t a static social fact; it’s a social fact we’re constructing."

    In her book Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, philosopher Kate Manne defines misogyny not as an emotion men feel but as an environment women experience, and a way in which they’re judged.

    Manne sees misogyny as a social enforcement mechanism “where women tend to encounter hostility because they’re not conforming to gendered roles and expectations.” In her telling, misogyny isn’t about hatred; it’s about protecting an existing social order, and it often works quietly, subtly. It’s why a woman boss is quicker to be judged cruel than a male boss; it’s why a woman running for a leadership position can be ruled out for offenses that would never be noticed if a man committed them.


    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      I'm dubious of a definition that reduces complex social realities to some  perception of "hostility," especially if that can be applied to those above and below in status, does not require intentionality, and does not meaningfully distinguish between consequences developed from individual feelings, multiple individuals with common feelings, institutional definitions established by previous generations which can be and sometimes are ignored. 

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