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April 06, 2019 06:58 AM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • 93 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true.”

–Demosthenes

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93 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread”

    1. After finishing Red Notice, these nuggets have a new meaning.  This is buried in today's Washington Post print edition. The Russian bank is 80% owned by Charles Taylor, former Republican Congressman from North Carolina. 

      Former congressman’s bank loses its license

      A regional Russian bank owned by a former Republican congressman had its license revoked Friday for violations that included breaking rules against money laundering. Commercial Bank of Ivanovo, in which Charles H. Taylor owns an 80 percent stake, regularly broke anti-money-laundering regulations, misrepresented the size of its provisions and used “schemes” to artificially inflate its capital, according to a central bank statement.

      Suspicious Russian cash has caught up several lenders in northern Europe, with Swedbank head Birgitte Bonnesen being the latest executive to lose her job over allegations that her bank was involved in a $230 billion Danske Bank laundering scandal. Russia’s central bank, under the leadership of Elvira Nabiullina, has purged more than 40 percent of the country’s lenders since 2013 in an attempt to clean up the financial sector and stem suspicious transactions.

      Taylor represented North Carolina’s 11th district from 1991 to 2007. In his freshman term, together with Newt Gingrich, he was part of the Gang of Seven that investigated a House banking scandal that fueled the perception of corruption in the lower chamber and helped usher in a Republican majority. He also created exchange programs and internships for Russian students during Russia’s transition from communism.

      Efforts to reach Taylor were unsuccessful.

      1. Put this together with the Panama Papers (and Snowden).
        It's not a pretty story, but to skip to the end (well, really, the middle) the KGB is alive and well and not our friend.

         

  2. The recall folks are out getting petition signatures in Greeley, to recall Representative Rochelle Galindo of HD50. Here is the petition wording:

    So their petition claims a lot of "fails to understand", which would be difficult to prove if they had to prove it, but isn't demonstrably false. They were prohibited from making false statements on the petition. Should they get enough signatures to put this on the ballot in a special election (and IMHO, they probably will), at that time Rep. Galindo will have the ability to counter these claims and explain her votes.

    Since she has always been transparent about her support for public health over gas and oil development, and was still elected with 53% of the vote in her district and the largest turnout ever, she clearly does understand the majority of the voters in her district, and they understood what they were getting when they voted for her.

    On the tax revenue issue, the $490 million figure doesn't appear to be the entire story. If they are talking about severance taxes, the county actually refunded $109 million to gas and oil operators, as a result of lower oil and gas prices, per the Greeley Tribune's reporting.

    On property taxes, Colorado Oil and Gas Association claims they paid $450 million in  property taxes in Weld County; This is echoed by COGA spokespeople on the Weld County Board of Commissioners.  however, actual property taxes paid in Weld County makes it obvious that is an exaggeration.

    For comparison, Weld County treasurer collected $688 million total for all taxes (not just property taxes) in 2017.

    The official Colorado DOLA web portal has links to each county's budget. Weld County collected $173, 539, 158 total in property taxes for Weld County (2019 budget, page 4 – these are for property tax assessed in 2018 as they are always a year in arrears). In 2018, Weld County collected 145, 754,379. So in neither 2017, nor in 2018, could oil and gas producers in Weld County have possibly contributed $450 million in property taxes. In other words, they're lying…again.

    There is also substantial evidence that proximity to fracking and oil wells lowers one's property value. So the charge that Galindo sabotaged Greeley's economy with her pro-SB181 vote is not valid. The numbers don't add up, and neither does the logic. She's done nothing but advocate for and represent the voters in her district. She says herself that the recall fight is motivated partly by racism and homophobia.

    To help in the fight against recalling Rochelle Galindo, donate at: http://standwithrochelle.com/

    And, if you are registered to vote in HD50 in Weld County, DECLINE to SIGN.

    1. The majority of property taxes goes to schools.   Do the numbers you cite for county collections include the money that goes to schools?

      1. No, those numbers are for local county services, but even including schools, they're not going to get to the industry's claimed 450 million in property taxes. The recallers just put a demonstrably false assertion onto their official petition, which is a violation of state law.

        Overview of Weld County School Property Tax Revenues

        For example: I looked at the Financial Transparency / Uniform Budget disclosures of 7 Weld County School Districts, the largest being Greeley 6, (45.4 M property tax contribution) and the smallest, Ault/Highland RE9 (3.9M property tax contribution).  Total property tax for the 7 I looked at was 105 million dollars, with 6 smaller Weld County districts, and the Centennial BOCES (Weld and Morgan County)  not counted.  So let's be generous and say that the funding for those 7 other rural districts is 5 M each. There are various small charter and online schools, listed on the CDE website, that are included in their district's budget, or get relatively small separate amounts of local and state revenues. I didn't include them in this total.

        That adds another 35 million in property taxes, so about ~140 million.

        Out of that, if again we're being generous and saying that the oil and gas corporations contribute at their max assessed rate of 65%, and that these are all ad valorem taxes that stay in extraction communities, you get to ~91million dollars contributed by the oil and gas industry to Weld County Schools. So that plus (.65 of 173 million in county budget  = 112 million – again, giving the industry the benefit of the doubt and discounting all of the other property tax payers in Weld County), you have 112 plus 91 = ~203 million total contributed by the oil and gas industry to public welfare in Weld County.

        Public health costs not offset in COGA's accounting, but will be when SB119 is fully implemented

        Of course, this also doesn't include the costs of polluted air to public health, including childhood cancers, birth defects, respiratory and heart problems, which CU Public health researchers estimated to be in the millions.

        So Weld County oil and gas producers are not contributing  anywhere in the neighborhood of 450 million in property taxes, especially when public health costs are taken into account. Plus, the severance tax law allows them to deduct whatever they're paying in local taxes from what they owe the state of Colorado. Sweet deal. For them, not for Colorado taxpayers.

        And by the way, thanks for not automatically going to "You're lying! You're drunk! You’re stupid! You're unethical!" I'm sure that will come, but thanks for not opening with it this time.

         

        1. You're welcome.  But that didn't stop YOU from assailing the industry as lying, liars even before you checked the numbers.  Disagreeing with MJ, on any subject, is not for the faint of heart.   It could well be when the state taxes are tallied that the total on weld county operations does hit $450 M, even if that doesn't all stay in Weld Co.  Sometimes people make honest mistakes, as you clearly did in your opening round here by reporting taxes paid TO Weld County in response to an industry claim of taxes paid IN Weld County. /p>

          1. Sun's gonna shine (and activate the
            VOCs from methane flaring ) and V's gonna defend his beloved oil and gas industry, repeating all of their talking points – a loyal crusader. Are you happy with the recall movement your oil and gas buddies are funding?

            1. I'm confused.  You just admitted t greatly understating the a mount of taxes OandG pays in Weld County, on your way to a frenzied attack on them as lying liars who lie!  

              A- Are you now saying that wasn't a mistake but a deliberate attempt to mislead the public?

              B-Are you saying its OK to lie because you hate the industry so much?

              C-Or is your ego so overwhelming that you simply won't admit you made a mistake?

              D.  All of the above?

                  1. nyah nyah nyah

                    She started it, and she's just a girl, probably too old and just too dumb to understand.

                    Answer the question, don't answer the question.
                    But as Sister Ann Marie taught me as a first grader, it is just rude to answer a question with a question.
                    Not for nothing, a life time of observing politics has taught me that people do it despite the rudeness when they have no answer or do not understand how to reject the premise of the question (pivot).

                    The recall is dumb.
                    Of course there is a multiplier on jobs, if and only if the gain from economic activity is not 105% sucked out of the area.

                    1. As usual, Madco, your logic is as linear as a Japanese Ginko tree.  

                      What, pray tell, does the multiplier effect have to do with a discussion of oil and gas TAXES?

                      All over the map you are!

          2. Uh … those who ASSERT A CLAIM (in this case, the people setting up the petition) ought to be the ones vouching for and explaining the numbers.

            No need for a pie fight here over what certainly seems to be an extraordinarily large amount of taxes. Ask the Secretary of State's office how the number is verifiable, and what they will do if it is inaccurate.

              1. Earth to John:  The Secretary of State doesn't collect taxes.  

                You might better direct your inquiry to the state treasurer.

                Your first clue that you were way, way out of the ball park should have been when MADCO agreed with you.

                1. the point JohninD was making – and with which I concur – is that the question is one of election law.
                  What counts as an untrue statement and what would the consequence be of such a determination.

                  Keep up or shut up. It's not that hard.

            2. I’ll follow up with it, with both the Galindo folks and the Sec State. The $490 million number was originally put forward as what oil and gas companies in Greeley paid over a decade, which was a much more reasonable proposition.

              However, the petition wording now says “energy companies pay over $490 million ” . Pay in the present tense, so the implication is that is a yearly amount.
              The $200 million for schools is also excessive, as my numbers showed.
              Something’s wrong with the reply box , so there are no links, unless I add them later with edit, but you get the idea.

              2. A decade?  That, I could believe.  

                i find that happens a lot with Congress where a tax or tax cut is calculated for its 10 year impact, in keeping with budget rules, and later reported as an annual expense.

                i saw one ad where the industry said it had paid more than $1 billion in state taxes, mostly for education — a statewide figure.  I could not reconcile it with $450 M from just one county, even one as big as Weld.

                reply boxes are crazyvtoday.  I sometimes have to click 100 times to get one. On the positive side, think how many times the reply box problem freezes out Curmy.smiley

                2. The original number was from a COGA President Schnacke's letter to the Greeley Tribune. He clearly states that the $490 million in taxes was collected over a decade.

                  Then Complete Colorado (CC) got hold of it and distorted it, of course. They misquote Warden, the Weld County Director of Finance

                  Warden said of the nearly $850 million in property taxes paid in Weld this year, more than $490 million of that will be paid by energy companies.

                   or he is deliberately distorting numbers himself, which wouldn't be weird for a Greeley elected official to do. At any rate, CC posted that SB181 would bankrupt Colorado's economy, that it is a "de facto ban", and plenty of other nonsense.

                  The petition language basically copied CC's words.

                  2. MJ, I'll agree with your conclusion that the $490 M and $200 M numbers are deliberate lies if you will clarifyvthat the liars are the political operatives at CC and not the industry, which apparently provided honest numbers that the gunslingers distorted.

                    1. They're the same people….Sherrie Peif, who wrote the Complete Colorado article, is active in the recall.

                      That's Greeley for ya. As a friend of mine said, "In Greeley, there is no conflict of interest. There is only….interest."

                      And I don't actually care whether you agree with me or not. It'd be nice if you were to stop calling me names, and quote me honestly, but I have no control over that, either.

                       

                    2. Actually, quoting you honestly is the cruelest thing I can do to you.

                      As to the difference between COGA and political gunslingers, it's that I have often dealt with professional Public Relations people with energy companies.  And they have never lied to me. Professional PR people have to deal  with the press on an ongoing basis and need their credibility.

                      P

                      They will spin, yes, that's their job.  But they won't lie.  Political operatives, on contrast, move from election to election.  Their time frame is short.  They lie like troopers, figuring the next campaign will be in another state anyway.

    2. Who is a politician able to "support and represent the entire population" of any district?

       

      And I'm very, VERY confused by the idea that more local control will automatically block oil and gas revenue in Weld County.  Since EXISTING wells and infrastructure doesn't seem likely to need NEW permits, how will any of the new legislation block all that money?

                  1. Speaking of the trough.

                    Colorado lets oil and gas companies pollute for 90 days without federally required permits that limit emissions

                    Air pollution control officials at the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment allow the industry to emit hundreds of tons of volatile organic chemicals, cancer-causing benzene and other pollutants using an exemption tucked into the state’s voluminous rules for the industry — rules that former Gov. John Hickenlooper, state leaders and industry officials long have hailed as the toughest in the nation.

                    They rely on this 27-year-old state exemption to give oil and gas companies 90 days to pollute, then assess what they need from Colorado regulators before applying for the air permits that set limits on emissions from industrial sites.

                    1. The lie about Colorados' rules being the nations' toughest is just pure and simple, made up bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is the exemption and waiver authority given to the COGCC and the BLM that belies that comment.

                      As I mentioned elsewhere…the basis of regulation in this state is to accept as "best management practices" what is "reasonable and customary". These are terms defined by the industry itself.

                      This lie is a particularly egegious falsehood, as it covers so much territory. There are others that are particular favorites…

                      "Fracking fluid is safe to drink."

                      "Natural gas is a clean fuel"

                      "Ray Scott is not an idiot"

                      *actually, I made that last one up…I never really heard anyone say that.

  3. Universal health care.  Free at the point of service.

    The cost of the four most popular types of insulin has tripled over the past decade, and the out-of-pocket prescription costs patients now face have doubled. By 2016, the average price of insulin rose to $450 per month — and costs continue to rise, so much so that as many as one in four people with diabetes are now skimping on or skipping lifesaving doses.

    The absurdly high cost of insulin, explained

    1. Free market for profit health care is always going to produce distortions and death from boundary solutions.

      But- the Free Market solution is just so easy.
      If you don't want to pay so much for insulin, don't buy it.

    2. the retail price of my insulin at Walgreens is up at least 500 pct in ten years. And I use 100 units a day — about $15 a day. Fortunately, Kaiser buys in bulk and I pay about tenth of that, about $135 for a 90 day supply.

        1. Only if you're embarrassed at corpses piling up in the lobby because they can't afford admission. But not all nonprofits are good.  The Catholic ones would rather let you die than have an abortion.

          Profit is great for most of the economy.  Some things — national defense, police, fire, health care, education, are best done by government or third sector (nonprofits.)

            1. My heart bleeds for the greedhead health providers who had to pay 38 cents in taxes on their $50 million CEO stock options.   The horror, the horror!

              1. That's a separate issue, we were talking about denial of care options to patients. The financial advantages of non-profit status allow Catholic health systems to outbid for-profits in taking over formerly secular systems.

                1. I thought you were talking about Kaiser, the original non-profits cited this chain.   If you mean the Catholic agencies use their non-profit status to extend their discriminatory systems, I agree.

  4. How about this headline in today's NY Times, "Boeing Pivots To Safety First on 737 Max To Curb Crisis."

    "Pivots to Safety First"?!?  Pivots from what? (profits, obviously). Sheesh.

      1. Bernie, if elected and re-elected, would be 87 when he stepped down.  That's just insane.  Warren, while no spring chicken, has a sharp mind and reasonable prospects of remaining so in the next ten years.  Right now, she's fifth on my list:

        1-Amy

        2. Kamala

        3-Mayor Pete

        4-Gillibrand

        5-Warren

        6–Anybody but Dead Man Walking Sanders.

        FYI, I sent Warren $300 in her initial Senate race.  She loves me dearly, so sayeth my e-mails.

              2. Oh, and now I'm a Russian troll? Or a Russian troll wannabe? 

                Given how Vladimir Putin and his regime view gays, your accusation makes no sense. But it isn't the first time your train of thought has jumped the track.

                    2. How about "as if Curmy were an Alzheimer addled buffoon?"

                       There, now it meets your standard of fairness.

                    3. Now, now, V… you don't want to overstep and spend the next two days posting personal stuff in a vain attempt to ingratiate yourself ….again…. now, do ya? 

                      Yeah, we all noticed. Hell, dead people noticed. 

                2. You keep posting stuff referencing "Bernie Bots". This was used in 2016 as a device to divide the Hillary and Bernie Dems. There was no evidence that "Bernie Bros" ever existed.

                  You keep posting stuff referencing Jill Stein. Again, these memes were used to divide Dems in the runup to the 2016 election.

                  Now, you seem to be stuck on the "Pocahontas" meme, which was again generated by the troll farms; it came out within minutes of Warren declaring her candidacy. Kamala Harris and Beto O'Rourke are also targets, as with anyone perceived to be a strong front runner going forward.

                  I'm not calling you a troll; but you do have a very clear pattern of posting memes that originate with trolls, and the intent of which is to divide and demoralize people who should be allies.

                  We don't have to agree on a candidate, and won't; but I'd respectfully suggest that you stick with promoting the one or two primary candidates you like and do support. Tell us why we should love the people you love, rather than despise the people you despise. 

                  Or if you want to criticize, criticize on the substance; on policy, on votes, on real conflicts of interest,  rather than on whatever nickname the $rump came up with to disparage them with.

                  Otherwise, you're part of the problem.

                  1. Policy?  You mean some position papers knocked off by grad students to be filed away and forgotten after election?

                    Practical records and obvious disqualifiers are far more important.

                    Right now, the two leading contenders, Biden and Bernie, would be 86 and 87 respectively if elected and serving two terms.

                    That's utterly disqualifying.  Not even Churchill was sharp at 87.  

                    Your Warren would be 79 after two terms.  Not great but I can live with leaders in their 70s.  Not so the late 80s guys.  No matter how many position papers their staffs knock out.

                     

  6. Bernie as the potential Dem nominee brings to mind a story I've read a few times about the foolish young leftist US college students who would sneak into Cuba in the early 1960s so they could chop sugar cane and thus show "solidarity" with the Cuban people. I'm sure that Fidel, Raul, and Che were laughing their rears off at the "gringo fools."

    1. Yeah, I think we can take any opinion you have on who Democrats should nominate with a grain of salt…like, the size of Devil's Tower, maybe. 

      1. Nice try Curmudgeon. You should be at least a bit mindful of the thoughts of others. Depending on who the Dems nominate, maybe we'll end up with another 4 years of Crooked Donald. Would you enjoy that, Mr. C.?

        1. Oh, I'm plenty mindful.  That's why I suggested the Costco-sized grain of salt.  

          And, you needn't threaten anyone with another 4 years of Trump. Circumstances are substantially different now.  

          Howzabout you spend all that brainpower on your own party? 

        2. The Return of the Inexplicable Republican Best Friend

          It’s a trope that dates back more than a decade, but the rise of Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has seen a recent surge in the Inexplicable Republican Best Friend (IRPF), a specific genre of concern-trolling where a long-time Republican operative, politician or pundit offers “advice” to Democrats about how they should avoid going “too far left.”

          These takes—frequently featured as earnest appeals in liberal and centrist outlets—are ostensibly framed as straight-talk advice that should be accepted as objectively in the Democrats’ best interest, and never presented as an ideological argument that would otherwise make sense coming from a right-winger. “Republican hates socialism” isn’t that newsworthy, whereas “GOP operative identifies Democrats’ best interests” somehow is.

                1. Sorry, Duke, but Jilliot votes in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania were greater than Trumps margin of victory.
                  And may I remind you that an earlier and even dumber generation of jilliots voted for Ralph nader, thereby giving Florida and the presidency to george bush.

                  1. With your traditional Democratic style of unifying after the primary, it is hard to believe that the Bernie supporters were able to ignore it and vote for HRC here in Colorado and most other states.

                    In Colorado most progressive voters tempered all primary support with anyone but Trump in the general.

                    It turns out, the progressive voters you shit on at every chance were right : HRC was not a great candidate.

                    But you and all the other long time Colorado D losers should keep complaining and whining. Even if it doesn't work – it's a good look.

                    1. And what's your party's choices done to your entire party's chances now, hm?  

                      You're chest-deep in excrement, and you're wagging a finger at Democrats to curb their dog.  

                    2. W e're gonna have jilliots, jilliots

                      They're gonna vote jilliot, jilliot,

                      Let us watch their IQ drop.

                    3. Jeez, anything to keep from blaming the idiots who actually voted for him, huh?  

    2. I’ll bet someone can get to Godwin from there . . .

      . . . in only three steps!?

      (. . . And, I  don’t even like the self-righteous, self-promoting, self-interested, old fool.)

      . . . anyway, the story reminds me more of the Goldwater Girls, the Junior John Birchers, and the laughing Kochs. YMMV.

      1. Actually, Stalin is the go-to Boogeyman around here,. as in "Anything that does not give the O&G boys complete, unrestricted access to every square inch of Colorado is Stalinist" 

        1. Oh yeah, right. 

          . . . but, keep an eye on that new group “The Dogs of NIMBYism” — just one week on the charts and they’re already at #4, with a bullet!! (They’ve got a really cool beat, and you can dance to it . . . )

  7. Someone (MADCO? Dio?) mentioned that it's a gorgeous day, and we should get out in it. It is, and I did. Nothing like a little sunshine and nature to keep things in perspective. Thanks.

    1. If you thought Nielsen was a heartless, incompetent, immigrant-hating bureaucrat, just wait until you see what Trump has in store for us now.

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