Weekend Open Thread

“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we’re really talking about peace.”

–George W. Bush

78 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. mamajama55 says:

    Protesters at Miramar Detention facility in Florida, from In These Times

    UPDATE: This Thursday, June 14, there will be two events in the Denver metro area to draw attention to the plight of children and families separated at the border. The first is at the ICE detention center in Aurora from 5-7 pm.


    MEETING LOCATION: GEO Group ICE Denver Contract Detention Facility – 3130 Oakland St, Aurora, CO 80010

    Because ICE has also been “rounding up” people whom they suspect might not have documents, there is a second event at the Montview Presbyterian Church in Denver, Thursday at 6:30 PM – 8 PM. They will march to Temple Micah at 5209 Montview Blvd, in Denver.
    There are people in sanctuary at the church, who will speak.

    Montview Boulevard Presbyterian Church
    1980 Dahlia St, Denver, Colorado 80220

    There is another event in Pueblo:

    Amigos de Pueblo:
    Friends in Pueblo:

    Zero Tolerance for Family Separation Vigil & Rally

    Thursday, June 14, from 7:00-8:00 PM
    Sister Cities Plaza (301 N Union Ave, Pueblo, CO 81003)

    And there is another event planned for Boulder that same night. For details, check on Facebook at Families Belong Together

    For info on the hundreds of national marches, use the Twitter hashtag #familiesbelongtogether, or go to the action network page. https://actionnetwork.org/forms/families-belong-together

  2. Gilpin Guy says:

    When Trump talks bout war, he is salivates about a greater war.

  3. DavidThi808 says:

    One of my daughters moved to L.A. and registered to vote there, telling them she was presently registered in Boulder County.

    Last election we received a ballot for her. We marked it return to sender.

    And so yesterday once again we received a ballot for her.

    Here's hoping the new Boulder County Clerk we'll get in November (the incredibly inept Hillary Hall is not running for reelection) is actually competent.

  4. DavidThi808 says:

    Why I'm voting for Jared Polis for Governor

    Like most everyone here, I'm happy with any of the top three as our candidate. But I think Jared brings a couple of attributes that make him by far the best candidate.

    First, he clearly thinks issues through for himself rather than tending toward the standard Democratic viewpoints. This comes through both in the details as he discusses many issues and some items where it's different from the norm. I think we'll get better solutions with this independent thoughtful approach.

    Second, he gets things done. He's managed to accomplish a surprising amount in a bitterly divided Congress. That proven success will mean more accomplishments here in Colorado. Because, even if Democrats gain control of both houses, it'll be barely and so we'll have legislation that requires immense skill to get passed.

    Third, he's not only experienced in government, he's experienced & successful in the business world. When it comes to growing our significant success becoming a center for high tech, renewable energy, etc. – he will understand what is proposed and what is needed much better than anyone else. And that will help grow the number of quality well paying jobs in the state.

    Fourth, he's clearly not owned by the Oil & Gas industry. It's unlikely he'll be able to make them pay their fair share and not destroy our environment and kill our citizens. But I think he can increase their contribution and reduce their damage a lot more than anyone else.

    I ask all of you to consider voting for him too.

    • JohnInDenver says:

      I found the analysis of the race by one of the participants in Littwin's weekly column yesterday pretty accurate

      [Josh] Penry, meanwhile, makes the case for why Polis will be so hard to catch: “This is an interesting test for Democratic primary voters. Polis isn’t the most eloquent or inspirational candidate. That’s Johnston, whose latest ad — very simply him to camera – is one of the best I have seen in a long, long time. And I think he won the debates handily too. He isn’t the most qualified. That’s probably Donna Lynne, an accomplished CEO and effective light guv. And he isn’t the most in line with the progressive grassroots. That’s clearly Cary who’s really run a smart and tough primary campaign. The only thing that Jared Polis is able to do, that the others aren’t, is write a $10 million personal check.”

      Littwin’s own concluding summary also seems on point: “What isn’t working, if you believe the [Magellan] poll, is that with $10 million spent [by Polis], there were still 40 percent undecided.”

      • Voyageur says:

        Actually, Polis has now spent $10.5 million and the total is still growing.  A rich businessman spends unprecedented sums to shake things up and throw out the establishment.

        What could go wrong?

        • RepealAndReplace says:

          Are you comparing Polis to Perot or Trump?

          • Zappatero says:

            The self-made Gazzillionaire Democrat candidate is a formula for mediocrity. On the R side it works perfectly. 

            • MichaelBowman says:

              Universal health care, ending Prohibition and 100% renewable energy are considered mediocrity in what world?

              • RepealAndReplace says:

                On issues, Jared is the most left wing of the four Democratic candidates. He is almost far and away the wealthiest.

                This must really place Sappy on the horns of a dilemma. Tolerate accumulated wealth for the sake of a left wing candidate, or stay true to your hatred of wealth and support Cary Kennedy. Or Mike Johnston.

                Oh, and I'm sure SFL Mike Bennet is somehow responsible for this dilemma.


                • Voyageur says:

                  In reality, you could cover the differences on issues between the four democrats with a dime and get back 7 cents change

                  If elected, however, Cary or Donna would make history as the first woman elected as Colorado's chief executive.

                  Likewise, if elected, Jared would be our first openly gay governor.

                  Mike Johnston, not so much.  It's hardly pathbreaking to elect another middle-aged white guy who owns a lot of guns.

                  Yes, I strongly believe it's time to elect a highly qualified woman as governor.  Go, Cary.

                  But I'd also take pride in electing the first gay man to our top office if that's how the football bounces.

                  But please, no Trump clones, like Mitchell or "Wayne" Stapleton.

                  Go Dems.  Take State!

                  • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                    Polis comes down on the correct side of protecting public lands. Same for Bennet, and occasionally for Gardner. Can't say that for Stapleton. And I thought I read somewhere that Lopez had some past major trouble with the law?

                    • Voyageur says:

                      Lopez likes to use his wife as a punching bag.  She says that's okay because God forgives him for it.


      • DavidThi808 says:

        I think that's searching for a simple answer. And writing items up on a list to compare. But people don't vote that way. They vote for who they're comfortable with. Who they think will best fight for what they need.

        Jared's money definitely helps. But there are a ton of rich people who spent a lot of money – and lost. At the same time Trump spent a lot less than Clinton – and won.

        A lot of the voters have looked at the candidates and prefer what they see in Jared. I think more powerful than his money is people see someone who is genuine and will work his heart out for them.

      • MichaelBowman says:

        For me, the issue isn't about some rich business guy throwing his money around. Jared made his money fair and square and could easily have chosen a different life.  He didn't.  He's made possible quality education for some of the least amongst us.  He has stood up to the decades-long (eight, exactly) policies that led to our disastrous, failed Drug War that gave us Jim Crow 2.0.  In 2012 when practically every politician was running away from Amendment 64 issue, he was unapologetically in support.

        And he was right.

        He's the tip-of-the-spear in Congress on the Prohibition issue.  He gets renewable energy, and he rarely gets credit but has a great grasp of the issues around our food supply and how land-grant universities play a pivotal role in a transitioning agriculture. If it wasn't for his work in getting Section 7606 into the 2014 Farm Bill we wouldn't be sitting here today looking at a projected $2+ billion (ag) hemp industry by 2020.  

        In short, he's been the most influential candidate from both sides of this race on issues pertaining to Colorado agriculture and rural communities.  That doesn't mean he'll get the rural vote – Obama is still referred to with the 'n' word in the local coffee shops.  But, like some 'Boulder liberals' who are smeared in these parts (because, you know, words….) they have a history of being the best friends to our rural economy.

        I'm pro-Polis, not anti-Cary.  This isn't about identity politics for me, either. This election is going to be historic regardless of the outcome of the primary: the grandson of a Grand Wizard duking it out with a wicked-smart gay man, or a wicked-smart woman – both of whom have a penchant for showing up for work.

        The 3am #TrumpTweets from the golden commode practically write themselves.

        • Voyageur says:

          What's a Jim Crow?  To me, that term stands for racism.


          P.s. That’s by far the most intelligent endorsement of Polis I’ve seen. Cary is an outstanding lady and I’ll stick with her. But if Polis wins and the foe is Wayne Whatever (the Repubs are loaded with talent this year, No?) I’ll probably vote for Polis in the general. If only to scandalize those coffee shops, which I know all too well.

        • JohnInDenver says:

          For what it's worth, I still haven't made up my mind between Kennedy and Polis. If both gave away everything they owned to the poor, I think I'd still be waffling between them.

          Money isn't a bad thing — last time I looked, the Roosevelt clan, Kennedy clan, and Udall clan were progressives. On the other side of the partisan canyon, rich Republican can be okay, too — I've argued Bush I and his father the Senator were responsible with their lives of affluence.

          And there are rich yahoos or advocates for evil on various sides of the political divide, too. You probably can come up with your own favorites.

          I have no doubt that Polis is smarter and harder working than I am — and he earned his wealth, coming from an modestly affluent family to becoming rich (and making a bunch of other people rich, too). What is undeniable is that his wealth is a distinct difference from other Democrats running this year.

          • MichaelBowman says:

            As soon as Nutter finishes counting all his money from the tax cut and gets it in the bank he’s going to be a king-maker to reckon with in the next cycle. 

            • Voyageur says:

              With my financial skills, I've already doubled the money from my taxcut. That $3.48 is going to make a big difference in my life.

              • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                As a registered Republican, I am not thus far all that impressed with the crop of Republican gubernatorial candidates, other than perhaps Victor Mitchell. But even Mitchell has to kow-tow and toady to the religious theocrats who run the party. Haven't voted yet; still thinking on it, but Victor probably has my vote.

                If Stapleton gets the nomination, then my general election vote goes to Polis. I've always been impressed by him, including an in-person meeting last year. Could go with Johnston; have also met him. Would not even think of "holding my nose and voting for Kennedy." Too far left for my taste. I’ve known Lynne almost 10 years, but doubt she gets the nomination. If big change happens and Donna is nominated, then she has my vote.

                • JohnInDenver says:

                  Thanks for the reactions. I always appreciate the reactions of those who meet with politicians — and especially those who recognize that effectiveness doesn't come only from one brand or the other.

                  Two quick questions — I understand Ms. Lynne is intelligent and competent. Is she enough of a politician to earn votes? If so, why do you think she has such an anemic campaign?

                  • Voyageur says:

                    You put your finger on it.  Lynne has never run for office, was appointed lt. Gov.  There are thousands of people competent enough to be gov and she is one of them.  But she is clueless about politics.  For good or bad, it's a political office.  She's better suited as a city manager than a politician.

                    • Duke Cox says:

                      She is an O&G acolyte, is she not?

                    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                      Actually, VG, Donna has a background in politics. Whether or not it's enough to run a political campaign here is a question.

                      Before she moved to Colorado years ago, she was chief of staff for then Mayor Rudy Giuliani in NYC. Yes, that Rudy, who continues to make a fool of himself on national TV.

                      As for Lynne being an "acolyte" of anything, that's all a matter of opinion. Duke: let us know when you're switching back to horse & buggy as your mode of transportation. 😉

                      Add-on for John in Denver: I chatted a bit with Victor Mitchell at last year’s Western Conservative Summit.

  5. Voyageur says:

    Jared is now spending millions in negative ads attacking Cary for uhh having run a negative ad.  Of course, Cary never ran such an ad.  A third party group did and Cary,by law, can't coordinate with it.  But Jared can–and is– fund these negative ads in which he violates his pledge to run a clean campaign.

    I will say these ads are better than his 

    Last one which proved only that short, fat, guys should not swing baseball bats.

    As far as your claim that Trump won goes, Hillary actually got three million more votes.  Fortunnately, we don't have an electoral vote in Colorado.

    The fact is that Jared is outspending his opponents by ten to one.  That doesn't decide your vote or mine.  But the guy with only a casual interest in politics cancels our vote and the only candidate he even hears about is the ten million dollar man.

    A flood of negative ads falsely accusing your opponent of running negative ads.  Have we really come to this?

    Yes, we have.  And, no, I can't stop it.

    But I don't have to like it.

    • notaskinnycook says:

      Polis can't coordinate with the PAC that ran that nasty ad, but nothing keeps him from doing an ad wherein he verifies that he had nothing to do with it. He can keep his clean campaign pledge by standing up to the nasty PAC and saying 'Knock it off!"

      P.S. I voted for Polis anyway.

      • Voyageur says:

        Unless I have it all wrong, Cookie, you got it backwards.  It was the pro -cary pac that ran the original nasty ad.  She can't coordinate with itbut, yes, she could run an ad — or just issue a press release denouncing it…I think the Polis ad denouncing Cary for denouncing him was paid for by Polis.  That breaks his pledge not to go negative.

        Frankly, it was a stupid pledge and they never should have made it.  Now, the campaign boils down to "he hit me first, Mom."

         but you certainly don't need to apologize for voting for Jared.  Your close ties to the LGBT community might be one factor.  But you are also a member of a much smaller group: The Truly intelligent and decent.  Jared should feel honored to get your vote.

        • notaskinnycook says:


          Aw, shucks. And I haven’t seen either ad. I never seem to be looking at television when they’re running local political ads. I just think Jared has a better read on national politics and these days almost all politics are at least regional. Cary’s too Denver-centric and I live in the city.

  6. Pseudonymous says:

    Hahahahahahaha.  Oh my god.  The quintessence of Democratic party politics.

    DNC Rule Change May Block Bernie Sanders from Running as Democrat in 2020

    A new rule adopted by the Democratic National Committee may block Bernie Sanders and other political outsiders from seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination in the 2020 presidential election.

    Randi Weingarten, a member of the DNC and president of the American Federation of Teachers, posted a photo of the rule change on Twitter saying that the rules and bylaws committee had “changed the rules to ensure to run for President as a Democrat you need to be a Democrat.”

    While I'd love for Bernie to run as an independent, I don't think there's a sufficient production capacity for dental guards and Kleenexes to support such a candidacy.


    • Voyageur says:

      OMG!  They want to limit the Democratic Party nomination for president toDemocrats?

      The swine.

      Cue the Jilliots.

    • JohnInDenver says:


      I'll fall for it — if that is in the rules and Sanders chooses to run, wouldn't he stand up, say "I'm a Democrat, I've been a Democrat, I've been a member of the Democratic caucus for the entire length of my service as a Senator, and I pledge to accept the Democratic nomination and serve as a Democrat." I think that checks all the boxes and can't imagine why he would have a problem saying any of it.

      • mamajama55 says:

        It's not only true, it's what he said all through the campaign. Still, people continued to question his Democratic bonafides. I think that he went back to being an Independent, which allows him to continue being very effective in Congress as the "Amendment King", building bipartisan support for good law.

        All respect to Bernie, but I'm not in favor of him running again in 2020. I'd like to see some new faces – Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Eric Holder, Julian Castro., Tulsi Gabbard…

        Partly due to  Bernie's "Our Revolution" organization recruitment, we have a plethora of quality candidates at every level of government. About half of these candidates won their primary elections.


      • RepealAndReplace says:

        Yes it would. He joins the club and he gets the benefits of membership including a shot at the presidential nomination.

      • Pseudonymous says:

        Oh, I think you're right about that, although I'd prefer to see him run outside the party.  The headline on the article I posted is overblown, but it's the only one I found (probably a bad search on my part) after seeing posts about the decision on Twitter.

        The problem is that this rule is clearly targeted at one person, the only person it could be, and is, to my mind at least, a petty and foolish attack on someone who is supported by a large segment of the party.  If it doesn't provide any benefit other than him bowing to the party in a way they didn't make him when he ran last time (since they didn't pass a rule then), why pass the rule?  Why remind everyone of the animosity parts of the party feel toward Sanders and his supporters when the wounds are still fresh?

        If he's going to run in the party, if he does decide to run, why alienate folks (at least potentially) who are likely to see this as an establishment cut at "their guy?"  To me, there seems no reason other than to be assholes about it.  This seems to be pointless nonsense to establish some sort of "victory" over Sanders.  That it's meaningless is why I find it both humorous and emblematic of Democratic Party politics.

  7. mamajama55 says:

    Can Merkel hold the G7 together? From BBC.


    1. Donald Trump, US president:

    2. John Bolton, US national security adviser

    3. Unidentified

    4. Shinzo Abe, Japan’s prime minister:

    5. Yasutoshi Nishimura, Japanese deputy chief cabinet secretary

    6. Angela Merkel, German chancellor:

    7. Emmanuel Macron, French president

    8. Theresa May, UK prime minister:

    9. Larry Kudlow, director of the US National Economic Council:

    • MichaelBowman says:

      If only he could get all of them to Mar-a-Lago for a long weekend and turn on his charm offensive? Maybe rub Angela’s tight (and getting tighter) shoulders with those bigly hands? 

    • Duke Cox says:

      I had promised mama a diary about this, but I have been dawdling on getting my mobile hotspot activated and am reluctant to lose another long-winded piece because I am using my phone still. I am so inept….

      This photo, as it turns out, speaks perfectly to the hubris that will bring this country down. A simple game of Monopoly taught me that you cannot push around the rest of the world with impunity. The backlash from this betrayal of our democracy, our democratic allies, and the embrace of autocrats as world leaders should be swift and overwhelming.

      Both of these criminal egomaniacs are seeking validation as world leaders. They are intent on giving it to each other. They both win…democracy loses.

      • mamajama55 says:

        How's off-grid life treating you, Duke?

        It is difficult to format diaries on a handheld device. Just not as tasty without the hot links!

        But I don't have any excuse not to write the diaries I've promised myself or others to do. So, on the bright side, at least you have a good excuse or two! wink We'll be glad to see your thoughts whenever you can get them down. The diary function does update drafts and save them in the cloud pretty well; just put visibility on "private" and have at it.

        Regarding the world leader situation: it's revealing that Giuseppe Conte, the new Italian prime minister, is kind of a huckster with dubious resume and big debts to unknown parties. Also very nativist and anti-immigrant. Familiar much?

        He's also the only one of the G – 7 countries that backed readmitting Russia, even after all Putin's admitted and suspected crimes.


        • Duke Cox says:

          I am loving life now, mama. Thank you for asking. I am happy to be once again living in the woods. The house sits near the top of a hill with a view to the west that is breathtaking. From here, one gets the sense that you are looking out over the edge of the world. The land is in a very old juniper/pine forest (it is a dry location)…we are surrounded by wild and ancient souls.

          Living off the grid is not easy, but not hard. We are happy to do the chores and tasks necessary to free us from the energy grid. 

          Snarky, irrélevant shit from CHB and other fossilonians is music to my ears.

          As I settle in and slow my pace, it is my intention to record and write. You, Michael, skinny, Jason, and so many others here are an inspiration, a comfortable chair, a favorite song. This is where my mind brings me when I have something to say.

          Thanks, Alva.


  8. MichaelBowman says:

    #ProsperityJesus' Mergers and Acquisitions guys are making a play for Hollywood…just in time for divine intervention in the midterms! (This is NOT from The Onion)

    An Evangelical University Is Helping Create A Movie About How Trump Was Chosen By God 

    A collaboration between an independent Christian filmmaker and one of America’s largest evangelical universities is showcasing the growing prominence of a provocative belief about President Donald Trump ― that he was divinely appointed to lead the United States.


    • notaskinnycook says:

      Where's a good lightning bolt when you need one? I know Facebook God's been trying to nail him since he moved the swamp into the White House.

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        Michael: this kind of stuff is all over the Right Wing Watch web site. As a common sense conservative, I find those far right wing religious zealots scary. Too many people want to believe in all that b.s.

        • MichaelBowman says:

          I was specifically thinking of you when I posted this, C.H.B.  What’s the saying, “ <something – something> when it turns out God hates all the same people you do”

          Particularly enjoyed the man of color heaping praise on the founding fathers “spirituality”.  You mean those white dudes who considered you chattel and 3/5 of a person? Or later, the southern white dudes in the shadows of Liberty University who negotiated the 2nd amendment so they could keep your people on the plantation? 

          They’ve turned religion into a carnival. 

          • Duke Cox says:

            No truer words, my friend.

            These people are of the ilk Jesus drove from the temple. The temple of Jerusalem was permeated with bankers, thieves, and priests (often in the form of one person) who were selling salvation and political favors as sacrifices in addition to goats and oxen.

            The guy who reportedly said that stuff in MMLJ would weep…or get really, really pissed off. 

  9. Zappatero says:

    Message to National/DC Dems: Listen to voters and get a message

    • mamajama55 says:

      Provocative article, Zapp.

      Preliminary findings from ….<snip> …..suggests an economic message alone will not draw as much support for Democrats as a “race-class narrative” that combines an economic message with acknowledgment of racial and economic disparities. The assumption that the left must run on either identity politics or economic populism is a false choice, their research shows.

      As MADCO put it, identity politics is inefficient and stupid. But acknowledging that class/race disparities exist, while promoting policies that "lift all boats" appears to be a winning message.

      People want to be heard. They want at least an acknowledgement that "some are more equal than others". They don't necessarily want to elect a token representative to power, unless that rep is truly repping and trying to lift everyone.


  10. Voyageur says:

    Trump stinks!

  11. Davie says:

    Fox & Friends host accidentally tells the truth:

    ‘Fox & Friends’ Host Calls North Korea Summit A Meeting Of ‘Two Dictators’


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