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November 06, 2009 02:50 AM UTC
48 Comments
….I’d say I’m about as tapped in as anyone in Colorado to the Military’s Public Affairs branch, and they ain’t saying nothing.
Secondly, I’ve spent the last year working PTSD/TBI and the Justice system – thanks to my boss on the Project (Laura Williams) we’ve made the connections we need with non-profit, law enforcement, education the VA and (esp) local mental health. We know the subject matter.
With that, here’s what I ask. We know one soldier is dead (Army Major, mental health specialist, and a Muslim name) and two in custody. No one know if all three are shooters, or one and the others did something stupid, or what. I’d say wait until the Post Commander releases more info. (Unlike the Prev Administration, there will me more and soon.)
No one knows if the casualty count will go up. Probably. A lot. Funny thing about soldiers – sometimes when we get shot, it takes a while to notice. Some of them don’t go down the first few rounds. Some of them will realize what happened, and will melt down tonight.
They all need our thoughts and prayers, but they esp need to be left alone. They’ve been fighting two wars for a long time, and they have their own support systems – and they work. Let them.
My main worry is the stupidz I’ve already seen on the web – every returning vet is a ticking time bomb, and we need to lock them ALL up. I don’t need a return to the 70’s, when every cop show had that one episode of the Vietnam Vet going crazy.
IT DOESN’T HAPPEN THAT WAY.
My best guess is 30% of returning OIF/OEF vets have issues with PTSD. There’s no one version of the disorder…everyone reacts differently. Some take it out on their families, some on their livers, and a few go down the rabbit hole and don’t come back.
I thank all the Gods who can hear me for GEN Graham at Fort Carson – under his command, PTSD & TBI were Issue number one. He’s dealt with the severe mental health problems his soldiers have returning from war, and I think it’s the ONLY reason we haven’t had an incident like this before.
Folks, the ocean just went out after the earthquake. The tidal wave is coming – we can dampen it down, but we need to do something NOW.
I believe the modern military has finally realized the seriousness of disorders stemming from combat stresses. As a Vietnam era vet and someone who worked in military hospitals for many years, I believe the resources for addressing our servicemen/women’s post-combat conditions are far superior than they were in those bygone days. And thank you for your continuing efforts.
A new “person of interest” has been arrested, and the two previous persons released according to the latest from CNN.
Still no word on motivation aside from Sen. Hutchison’s note that the dead suspect was due to go to Iraq soon and was upset about that.
I’m sure it goes almost without saying that our sympathies go out to those affected by today’s shooting. But it needs to be said at least once (or twice) anyway.
Officials are now stating that the shooting suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, is not dead as initially reported. He was shot by a civilian police officer (who was wounded in turn) and is in stable condition.
Hasan is a U.S. native, apparently born in Arlington, VA. He is of Jordanian descent, and was raised a Muslim. As a doctor specializing in stress, he was likely assigned to Ft. Hood’s Warrior Combat Stress Reset Program.
No further word on motive; there are some reports that the Army had some initial signs of Hasan’s distress from postings on the Internet, but I’ve seen no further details. He was, reportedly, looking to get out of the Army (he was 39…).
I saw an interview with a Colonel that worked with him. He talked about his anti-American, pro-Muslim rants, and his perceived ‘joy’ when the recruiters were killed in Little Rock.
Apparently he also received a full medical school education on the military.
I’d hate to be a patriotic American Muslim (obviously, the huge majority) living anywhere in Texas tonight. Prayers and thoughts for them as well. What a horrific day.
As a psychiatrist specializing in stress, he probably dealt with PTSD victims day in and day out; that can build up on someone.
And to counter the Colonel’s interview, I offer the following account, supposedly from relatives, that he had been hazed in the military for his Muslim upbringing, and that it was causing him to rethink his involvement with the Army.
Let’s just drop the speculation on the Muslim angle until we hear some actual details, shall we?
No problem.
I don’t play FAUX News clips.
It’s an interview with his former colonel. Not much room for spin, eh?
Sorry reality doesn’t jive with what you want it to.
Lots of room for spin. Especially if he’s one of the folks who was supposedly hazing the Major. (Word is complaints were filed and dismissed, and incidents were reported with the Major at Ft. Hood regarding his religion…) But I don’t know any of this as fact.
So again – be a responsible person. Let it sit until someone compiles some actual facts. Listen to Senator Cornyn, who has been been unusually rational about the whole thing today – don’t jump to conclusions.
I’ll start watching FOX News when they start broadcasting news. Even their tickers and chyrons show an obvious bias. The scripts for their supposed news anchors are dripping with right-wing catch phrases and sneering anti-Democratic zingers. I get to see it once in a while when I go out to lunch at a local semi-fast food place; its more than enough to satisfy my occasional curiosity.
The Army is already trying to hang this guy out to dry by releasing snippets from his OER..something that’s supposed to be a violation of the UCMJ.
Considering he got promoted to Major in May, how could he have gotten a bad review? Someone is covering their ass here.
Faux News reports from one source do not count as the definitive word on this. I’m willing to wait and see.
And Phoenix is absolute right – mental health providers, esp those treating PTSD, go just as bonkers as the line troops…and sometimes faster and harder…
1. In the swirl of rumors and news, possible report that Hassan had written anti-American screeds that came to the attention of the military. And then what?
2. Head of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (which in his case means Yemen) quoted within the past day or two as urging Muslims to take small-scale actions against Americans, rather than wait for big-time, planned assaults. Knifing, for example. As I heard it, the advice was directed at Muslims in Muslim countries; but I could have heard it wrong, as could Major Hassan. Which leads me to…
3. Not only was Hassan’s alleged action frightening in and of itself, but what of the predictable reaction? Without going into details about why Muslims have failed so far to find a loud and persuasive voice against random terror (IF you could characterize what happened at Ft. Hood as “random”), I suggest that today’s events could pose an extraordinary crisis for ordinary, peaceful Muslims in this country, and that Muslims must take the lead in addressing this, with the rest of us ready to join them to avoid a rerun of anything like, say, Japanese-American internment of WWII.
The underlying principle of terrorism is not the damage the terrorists do, but rather the damage they inspire their targets to do to themselves. Loss of our civil liberties in the name of security comes to mind right away. Damaging religious prejudice is another threat.
From CAIR:
“We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. […] No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence.”
From the Muslim Public Affairs Council:
“MPAC and the Muslim American community unequivocally condemn this heinous incident. […] Our entire organization extends its heartfelt condolences to the families of those killed as well as to those wounded and their loved ones.”
The group said it was working with law enforcement and government officials.
“American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured,” the statement said.
but screw CAIR. It’s an apologist joke.
You want to throw people in prison if they don’t denounce this violence eloquently enough? That’s an incredibly racist and anti-American approach to this.
I hope Muslim groups continue to speak out loudly against the violence. But even if they say nothing – there is no call to treat them differently than any other American. None!
Where, sir, did I advocate “throwing people in prison if they don’t denounce this violence eloquently enough.” Chapter and verse. WHERE DID I SAY THAT?
Since we know the answer to my question–JO did NOT say that–let’s move onto the next question: What’s your point in making up shit? To try to discredit someone who frequently disagrees with you on a whole variety of subjects?
My point, sir, for those who can read and understand English, was precisely that Muslims need to find a loud and persuasive voice to denounce terrorism-in-the-name-of- Islam. If such a voice exists, it has been drowned out by the imams who preach extremism.
AND, of course, for those who prefer proceeding on the basis of FACTS, we do NOT YET KNOW the motives of the Fort Hood shooter. Maybe he was objecting to practical moves to reduce dependence on carbon energy! We DO NOT KNOW and NO ONE is JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS based, presumably, on cliche-dominated thoughts, save certain posters whom I could name.
No one that I’ve read on this blog is casting aspersions on a whole group of people. Wanna disagree with that? Quote chapter and verse, please. What some (not me, surely not me) might characterize as simple-minded holier-than-thou calls for calm and silence ignore a “clear and present danger,” to quote the phrase of the day, when in fact some ACTION is required. Will we now hear you say, “It’ll never happen…not even in PRB”? Hopefully you will be ignored in this as in other areas of discussion.
My further point, for those who did/could read the post, was that non-Muslims should then (to quote your own quote) be “ready to join them [Muslims denouncing violence] to avoid a rerun of anything like, say, Japanese-American internment of WWII.”
Repeat: to avoid a rerun. That distinctly does NOT mean “You want to throw people in prison…” Au contraire (Parlez vous Francais better than Anglais?). It does mean there is a danger of an hysterical reaction and it is a call on Muslim religious leaders, here and abroad, to become rather more vocal in denouncing the rantings of bin Laden and the like and to join in the cause of quelling such a reaction.
Your comments would gain credulity if they showed any evidence of having actually read and understood comments to which you’re responding. In the meantime….
Here it is again
I’ll let your words speak for themselves.
that’s pretty plain
Anyone casting aspersions due to common names, ethnicity, religion, looks, etc – you are scum.
It’s pretty low-class.
Rat ’em out. Let’s see who would stoop to that.
I’m not sure I even want to know. I think it would permanently change how I viewed that blogger and I don’t know that I would be able to continue to be civil to him/her.
My guess is that it was enough people that Pols thought they had to post a front page cease-and-desist about it.
And that some of the ones that emailed wag their fingers at others about being intolerant. Just a guess, mind you.
Ick.
The shooter’s last name is as common as Smith. The ignorance is stunning sometimes.
…sometimes we say we can’t remember what happened
.
at an event his Mom put on for Newt.
But I feel I know about him from what he has done for Colorado.
I got my MBA through the program he endowed at CSU-Pueblo. The program brings Americans and folks from Pakistan and that region together to learn to collaborate together. He is a great American. He made a bundle of money, and uses that to give back to both of his countries.
God bless Malik and Seeme Hasan.
.
.
there are several similar names, or versions of the same name, and I don’t remember which one he uses.
By “MAH” I am referring to Colorado politician and ColoradoPols poster Muhamed (sp?) Ali Hasan.
The emails referred to in
most certainly refer to a prominent Colorado businessman, Malik Hasan, father of MAH. He is from Pakistan originally. He started an HMO in Pueblo, Qual-Med I believe.
MAH’s sister founded a group “Muslims for Bush” or something like that. The entire family is Republican, I think.
The School of Business on the Belmont Campus in NE Pueblo is called the Hasan School of Business.
.
Thank you for the kind words to my parents
both of my parents are involved in philanthropic activities regarding their foundation – the Hasan Family Foundation
a few points to clarify –
1. Muslims For Bush was founded by my mother, Seeme Gull Hasan, and myself – my sisters had nothing to do with it
2. The business school is the Malik and Seeme Hasan School of Business
3. My father is a registered Democrat
…it’s going to be another Columbine.
We’re going to delude ourselves that we “should have” seen the warning signs, and only if we had done “X” this would’ve been preventable.
In the end, it’s going to be a pile of tiny things, all put together slowly and surely, that cause the Major to go batshit crazy and decide his only option was to kill fellow soldiers.
When I look at the tapes of him getting a cup of coffee and a donut at the local PX Shoppette, he doesn’t look like a guy in turmoil over a future deployment, or in the brace of madness of righteous revenege – he looks like a nice guy getting a coffee and donut.
A clinician from Columbine, a Vet from Vietnam, GW1 and I talked about it for two hours, and we don’t have a clue. I don’t think anyone else does, and I doubt we’ll ever get an answer….
Victims of violent crime and domestic violence are often diagnosed with it.
Doctors treating PTSD can suffer from something similar from the repeated exposure.
Combined with the fact that he was about to deploy (which, statistically is the time when 35% of soldier suicides occur) – he could easily have gone off the deep end, stress-wise.
I noticed you didn’t mention it at all.
I want everyone on this diary to read this past Pols diary, and the comments within.
Terrorist strike in Kansas open thread
What’s different? Two jackoffs who fall victim to a crazy ideology and commit murder.
And yet, discussing one makes you xenophobic or even racist (Sirota made me sick defending Hasan this morning) and the other makes you part of the smart set that gets to blame talk radio for a murder.
What’s the difference here?
All of you all, every last one, are speculating based on little to no information. The guy who murdered the doctor in Kansas was pretty clear about his intentions and what his twisted logic was behind it. That information regarding this tragedy is simply not here yet.
We know 4 facts:
He was a doctor treating PTSD patients.
He was about to be deployed to Iraq.
He had filed complaints from ongoing discrimination.
He had converted to the Islamic faith.
And from these four facts, I have seen assholes from progressive to conservative blogs telling me all day long his motives for the shootings; from defending him to defiling him, I’ve pretty much read it all today and am sick to death of the sport of speculation.
And until I know more or hear directly from him, whichever information becomes available first, I am not going to spend my time speculating as to his motives because the potential for making a horrible situation even worse is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
….we still don’t know what cooked MAJ Hasan’s brain.
You may be right – and you may be wrong. Hasan is expected to wake up at some point. He’ll be interrogated by Army CID (who do not look like Mark Harmon or LL Cool J) and the FBI will examine his computer and determine if he did post that “Suicide Bomber as Military Weapon” stuff on the web.
In the meantime, can you cool your jets in trying to make this Texas Jihad?
Tell the people that called the Kansas thing terrorism to cool it until all the facts came out?
Not trying to be a dick, but this looks pretty obvious that this guy butchered a bunch of unarmed folks because of his interpretation of Islam and his anger at U.S. policy. At least that’s my speculation.
Why is one speculation ok and the other not?
…that was the MD-MD/Yokel show. I didn’t say a peep until Libertad started posting his snuff porn, which was later.
You can go thru and check for yourself – I assume that you did, right?
I’ve already stood down from my original post about PTSD. I’m now with the majority of folks in the “WTF” category….the man was rife with contradictions about his faith and his military service.
I do know the Army is trying to sink him as fast as they can….and I hope I can help find the asshole who leaked his OER to the press.
Just wanted to let you all know that I deeply appreciate the comments above showing concern for American Muslims
I also join the many American Muslim groups who condemned the attack in saying that Islam’s true essence is one of peace, as noted by Jesus Christ (who is a Prophet in Islam) whose message of love is as strong in Islam as it is in Christianity – I comdemn the attack, as a Muslim, and I remain deeply proud of both being American and Muslim
I’m heartbroken over the tragedy and I pray that our good men and women who passed away forever rest in peace
I’m not worried about any kind of fall out against American Muslims – we live in a wonderfully loving country – yes, there’s minor problems at times, but I know the outpouring of goodwill in our great country will always exceed any negative
Love and peace to you all
Muslim leader had troubling talks with suspect
“FORT HOOD, Texas – An Army psychiatrist who authorities say went on a shooting rampage at Fort Hood was so conflicted over what to tell fellow soldiers about fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan that a local Islamic leader was deeply troubled by it, the leader said Saturday.
“Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, said he was disturbed by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan’s persistent questioning and recommended the mosque reject Hasan’s request to become a lay Muslim leader at the sprawling Army post.
“Danquah said Hasan never expressed anger toward the Army or indicated any plans for violence, but during the second of two conversations they had over the summer, Hasan seemed almost incoherent, he said.”
HERE’s the wacko thing:
“Danquah, a retired Army 1st sergeant and Gulf War veteran, did not tell the military about his conversations with Hasan.
“I didn’t think it rose to that level of concern,” he said, adding that he thought the military “chain of command should have picked it up” if Hasan had issues.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…
HOLY CRAP – if a former 1st SGT didn’t think it was that bad, and he was asking all of these intense theological questions, WTF else do you need for a warning sign?
Granted, no one endorses making assumptions about one person on the basis of false assumptions about a group. On the other hand, categories can hide key differences; nowhere more so than in religions.
If Islam is regarded as just another religion in the same category as Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Universalist-Unitarians, and Jehovah’s Witnesses, then one recoils at regarding Muslims as any different from members of the other groups when it comes to evaluating their suitability for serving in the military.
On the other hand, Islam has some specific beliefs that raise serious conflicts. Serving in a military fighting against other Muslims, most especially if that military is non-Islamic, is one such conflict. Insisting that sharia (religious law as dictated in the Koran) supersedes secular government is another possible belief, taken to different degrees. Accepting the notion of a new, global caliphate, governed by sharia, is yet another.
It seems clear there are conflicts between assumptions about what’s required to serve in the U.S. Army and what’s required to be an observant Muslim, and that such conflicts could well rise to the point of mental anguish. It also seems clear that designating such anguish as as leading to either “wacko, nut-job” behavior or to “jihad” is a matter of choice and not mutually exclusive.
No one wants to jump to premature conclusions, including the premature conclusion that (a) we shall ever know in the case of Major Hasan; or (b) that among the optional explanations, there is one and only one. On the other hand, it is perfectly legitimate to wonder: can we, should we, reasonably expect observant Muslims to fight in a war against other Muslims, and most especially a war in which one version of Islam is at the very center of the conflict? The same question might be asked about Jewish soldiers in the unlikely event of a war with Israel.