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April 19, 2006 08:00 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 59 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

Into the great Wednesday open.

Comments

59 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

  1. The first filings are available online for the SD 32 race. 

    Coleman raised $3854.00 – and had 2303.00 cash on hand 3/31.
    Romer raised $33,410.00 – and had 27,577.00 cash on hand 3/31.
    Mello raised $22,129.00 – and had 20,134.00 cash on hand 3/31

  2. So what’s up with these headlines?

    DENVERPOST
    Perlmutter to skip run for Congress

    Rocky Mountain News:
    PERLMUTTER DECLINES TO RUN FOR CONGRESS

  3. Go Blue,

    So Ken Gordon and the Dems are smarter then the founding fathers? 

    If Ken’s plan (which the voters of Colorado defeated in the not-so-distant past) makes it through, what other wonderful changes to the Constitution would he make….

    I am anxiously waiting to know what the wise sages of the Democrat-controlled senate will do to correct the utter failings of the dead-white guys who wrote that worthless peice of paper that has governed our nation for 219 years…

    Save us, O Ken Gordon,…save us!

  4. Ken’s Plan:  Whoever receives the majority of votes by Americans to be president…(wait for it) becomes president!!!  Shocking!

    Maybe it would also be too “smart” of us Dems to point out that the Constitution is a living document, changing when drastic conditions occur (i.e. letting African Americans become citizens and allowing women to vote).

  5. Yeah, you Dems got right on the “letting African Americans become citizens…”  It was just political strategy that you tried to separate from the Union to keep slaves in order to set them free and give them the vote….

    Its that type of subtle leadership, like the civil rights legislation that was so “wisely” obstructed as long as possible by the Dems, that really makes this country great.

    But hey, who wouldn’t want that type of leadership?

  6. What the f*** are you talking about?  How many republicans filabustered civil rights legislation?  How about Strom Thurmon?  Or maybe Trent Lott who still believes the country would have been better off with forced segregation.  I can think of one President’s daddy who campaigned against the civil rights act.

    Leadership is about inclusion not persecution and discrimination.  Maybe it’s been so long since the republicans have had such leadership.

  7. “So Ken Gordon and the Dems are smarter then the founding fathers?”
    …………………..

    So I guess you would like to go back to women not having the right to vote, slavery, and moving the Capitol back to Philidelphia?  C’mon man, changes need to be made to keep up with the concerns of the time.

  8. Nice Try Blue….but check your history…

    A simple google search brings up Strom’s biography…

    “Thurmond holds the record for the longest filibuster in Senate history; he spoke against the 1957 civil rights bill for twenty-four hours, eighteen minutes. He switched from the Democratic to the Republican Party in 1964”

    So as a Dem leader he fought against civil rights….not as an R.  It was Republican leadership that got the Civil Rights act through…and a Republican President that signed it.  Deal with it.

    As far as the Lott issue…what a red herring.  Read the his actual words for an elderly senator (whose errors were made as a D) instead of what the press reports.

  9. RightinWeld,

    The Constitution says clearly a State may apportion its electors as it chooses.  Colorado may choose the “Every Vote Equal” compact as its method.

    In answer to your bizarre second comment, I’d say about two-thirds of Americans want Democratic leadership.

    Why Republicans fear the popular vote is simple: it elects Democrats.  It’s the same reason Bush campaign chairman James Tobin was just convicted and a New Hampshire GOP head pled guilty to phone-jamming.  It’s the reason former Arizona GOP head Nathan Sproul is under criminal investigation for taking half a million dollars from the RNC to run illegal partisan voter drives where all Democratic registrations were shredded.  Voter suppression is core to the GOP.  If we had 100% voter participation in this country, the highest-ranking Republican to be elected would be a dogcatcher in Alabama.

    BTW, this is the year Weld County as a whole slips into the (D) column.  Bank on it.

  10. History buff-President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on July 2nd, 1964.  He was a democrat if you can’t remember.

    I’d try to respond to your Lott paragraph, but it just doesn’t make any sense.

  11. First off, Ken Gordon is not changing the Constitution.  States can send their electors in whatever manner they choose.  Most send all their electors for whichever candidate has the most votes, but Maine and Nebraska split their electoral votes based on congressional districts.

    This proposal probably won’t even matter in very many elections.  I believe that only twice has the winner of the electoral college been different than the winner of the popular vote.

    This proposal probably helps the Republicans more than the Democrats.  Before the 2000 election it was Republicans who were concerned that Governor George w Bush would win the popular vote, but lose the election.

    The reason: California (55) and New York (31) make up over 30% of the required 270 electoral votes.  These states usually vote for the Democrat.  Ohio (20), Florida (27), and Pennsylvania (20) are the three swing states that are very important.  They make up another 25% of the required number to win.  The votes in these states are more important to both parties than the votes in a state like Colorado (see US policy toward Cuba for an example).

    Also, since you brought up Southern Democrats obstucting the civil rights movement in the 1960s, whose party did they join after they failed?

  12. The popular vote is how all Colorado state elections are decided.  Why Republicans start trembling in their boots at the thought of the popular vote has been clearly stated above by Terb.

    It makes zero sense for us to have two different standards regarding elections vital to a proper functioning government.  The electoral system is an antique left over from the times when we carted votes from one village to the other and hand counted to total.  It makes perfect sense for those times.  It makes none today.

  13. Interesting tid-bit.  If 60,000 voters in Ohio would have switched to Kerry, he would have won the Electoral College but Bush would have won the popular vote by almost 3,000,000 votes.  This is not a partisian issue.

  14. It’s a bill to join a compact with some other states to give their electoral votes to whichever candidate wins the national popular vote.  The compact will not begin until enough states join total 270 electoral votes.  It would basically give the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most votes from the entire nation.  I think it’s a fantastic idea.

  15. The way I understand it, Colorado will join in a compact with several other states who will all pledge their electors to the winner of the popular vote, regardless of how their individual state voted.  The compact will only take effect if this group of states controls enough votes to swing the winner of the electoral college.

  16. This sums up the paln nicely,

    …………………..

    “The Electoral College would remain intact under the proposed compact. The compact would simply change the Electoral College from an institution that reflects the voters’ state-by-state choices (or, in the case of Maine and Nebraska, district-wide choices) into a body that reflects the voters’ nationwide choice. Specifically, the proposed compact would require that each member state award its electoral votes to the presidential candidate who received the largest number of popular votes in all 50
    states and the District of Columbia. Because the compact would become effective only when it encompasses states collectively possessing a majority of the electoral votes, the presidential candidate receiving the most popular votes in all 50 states and the District of Columbia would be guaranteed enough electoral votes in the Electoral College to be elected to the Presidency. “

  17. The Big Line indicates that Fern O’Brien needs “big collapse” of Suthers to win.  On the back of the empty room in Pueblo, TrialHead mess and the latest poor fundraising numbers for Suthers, when will Col Pols call his campaign officially ‘collapsed”?

  18. Charlie Green,

    That is a good point.  The drawback I see to this plan is that if the popular vote of the compact states went for Bush but the majority of Coloradoans voted for Kerry we would be forced to cast all of our electoral votes for Bush.  It still does not seem to reflect the will of the people.

  19. It just sounds to me like people are still using the 2000 election to illustrate the need for change. We, as Democrats, got screwed by the electoral college (well, the Supreme Court helped the cause, too) but we have to look at this issue logically. There would just be too much money involved, and it would all be spent in highly populated states. Colorado, which is currently a key battleground, and it’s nine electors would be irrelevant.

  20. I’m going to reference my earlier post Joker.  This could have happened again in 2004.

    If 60,000 voters in Ohio would have switched to Kerry, he would have won the Electoral College but Bush would have won the popular vote by almost 3,000,000 votes. This is not a partisian issue.

    There is already a tremendous amount of money involved, and it’s not like low-populated states see much campaigning anyways (Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas).

  21. The Founding Fathers got one thing horribly wrong: the US Senate.  It’s the most undemocratic thing in the world, and has caused America to beholden to a change-averse minority (usually in the South).

    Why does South Dakota get 2 Senators for 500,000 people, and California for 35 million people?  Not very democratic now is it?

    The US Senate should be like the Colorado Senate.  Maybe half as many people, but still based on population.

  22. Actually I think that the Us Senate is VERY democratic.  The Senate was put in place to make sure that states had equal representation and that states with larger populations would not always dominate national policy.  I think it makes a tremendous amount of sense, there is NO WAY I would want folks from Texas telling Colorado what to do.

    AHHHH!  😉

  23. The Senate also messes up the Electoral College.  South Dakota gets more Electoral votes per person by far than California.

    The Senate was created so all the slaveholders in the South could have parity to keep their slaves.  But, the Southerens had a lot in common with Bob Beauprez, with their “both ways” decision 3/5 person addition so they’d have more in the House of Reps.

    I’d be happy if we jsut gave Washington, DC ACTUALLY representation in Congress.  You know, Two Senators and at least 1 House of Rep person.  There’s more people in DC in then in South Dakota.

  24. ColoradoPols,

      In light of the way the user with the long name is fraudulently misquoting the Denver Post and the Rocky Mountain News, and spamming your website, don’t you think it would be appropriate to delete the account and any others associated with that IP address?

      Using my name, and the names of two other users was bad enough, but I am a tolerant guy and held my complaints.
      Spreading false rumors was worse, but they were speculative enough that I let that pass too. But now he/she is just flat out lying, dragging the Post and Rocky into it and wasting space.

    At what point do you draw the line for how people can abuse this site?

  25. There, Take Back The House, a unique name.

    Still wondering about these headlines, actual headlines in the Rocky and the Post. Any truth to them?

    DENVERPOST
    Perlmutter to skip run for Congress

    By Trent Siebert, Denver Post Capitol Bureau

    NEWS
    Rocky Mountain News.com
    PERLMUTTER DECLINES TO RUN FOR CONGRESS

    By John Sanco and Peggy Lowe, Rocky Mountain News

  26. John Sanko retired from the Rocky years ago. The Lamm shill is obviously quoting real headlines from the 2002 race, when Perlmutter did NOT run.  Mike Feeley did.  Quoting four year-old stories to justify his ludicrous claim that Perlmutter would drop out Monday is typical of this especially venomous shill.  I think Peggy should dump this oaf.  Just walk around your headquarters, Mrs. Lamm, and look for a guy whose obviously on drugs and hasn’t bathed in the memory of living men.  That’s your shill and he’s doing you immense harm.

  27. I agree with TakeBack. Enough is enough. Delete his comments and ban him from the site.

    He’s doing a great disservice to the Lamm campaign.

    “WhoAmI”? Who fucking cares?

  28. I know this is old news, but Peggy’s video I just watched it and I was appalled!

    Did she really come out is support of Alan Jackson? Man she lost my vote.

    How do you Lamm people defend that one? It is documented, Peggy Lamm likes pop country. Spin that one. He does not represent real country, he is the britney spears of country!

  29. Hey! Karl Rove is a subject of Fitzgerald’s investigation – this is the headline buried in Libby’s filing.

      In white-collar criminal investigations, individuals who fall under the gaze of a prosecutor fit into one of three categories: witness, subject or target.

    Rove’s attorney has suggested that Rove is simply a witness. But that is untrue. He is a subject. A subject is someone the prosecutor believes may have committed a crime and is under investigation. If the prosecutor decides he has accumulated sufficient evidence to prove guilt, he will change the designation of that person from subject to target and then indict him or her.

    Treason in the White House, not to mention a complete lack of integrity, lack of intelligence, lack of heart, leadership, unification or compassionate conservatism!

    The remaining supporters (you know who you are), display an incredible ability to misdirect, obfuscate, and join with our Liar-In-Chief. Everyone who supported this must be held accountable!

  30. Bush has made us less safe:

      Reuters:

    LOS ANGELES, April 19 — A Chinese national living in Southern California admitted Wednesday trying to arrange the sale from China to the United States of 200 shoulder-fired missiles that can be used to bring down airplanes.

    It’s now a very profitable sport. Thanks George!

  31. Oh yeah that is the President’s fault S R.
    Christ sakes, how can you blame that on Bush?
    He does have a blind eye for immigration (along with almost evey liberal out there, but someone trying to buy guns? Come on.
    Your hatred for conservatives makes you say some pretty dumb things Robin.
    I can’t wait until a Democrat is elected. I might even have to vote Democtatic just to help speed it up.
    Then whenever the slightest questionable item arises, we will be on you like stink on shit. Everything from AIDS to foot fungus will be blamed on the new President.
    How does that sound Mr armchair quarterback?

  32. “Then whenever the slightest questionable item arises, we will be on you like stink on shit. Everything from AIDS to foot fungus will be blamed on the new President.”

    …………………….

    You guys already did that to Bill Clinton Gecko.  Pay backs are a bitch huh?

  33. The difference is that Clinton wasn’t the WORSE PRESIDENT EVER, of course.  $80 million spent by our ‘fiscally conservative Republican congress’ to investigate a blow job…  Meanwhile, ol’ Tom ‘the bug guy’ DeLay sells off the capitol to K street and the Pres. lies (one might think every single day) and makes so many fatal mistakes, destroying our military, balooning the deficit, ratting out CIA agents to score political, err sorry, public interest, points…

  34. All those white southern “good old boys” who are Republicans now where ripe for the draft and the Vietnam war in the sixities…and to a boy, they did not serve, even though they all supported the war.  Why?  I believe it was because “good old white boys” do not and would not take orders from a black man…and the military was well integrated by then.  That is why, I believe,  Colin Powell was “staff” (State Department) and not “command” (Department of Defense)…I believe those old southern customs is why a proper white lady (read: Barbara Bush) had a “previous engagement” and did no go to a black woman’s funeral.

  35. Clinton was, in my judgment, a better than average president, at least on the economic front.  But, Serf T, only a total idiot or Sir Robin — oops, I repeat myself — would argue he was the worst ever.  That honor indisputably belongs to James Buchanan.  Even in the post World War II era, Jimmy Carter’s ineptitude makes Bush look stellar.
    -0-
    Dwyer, you are dumb as a stump.  I was in the Army during the Vietnam episode and it was dispropoportionately made up of southern white boys.  As to Colin Powell, you are even dumber, he was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  There is no higher position in the military because, by law, the secretary of defense is a civilian. 
    You apparently draw your “facts” about the military from Michael Moore.  You make even Sir Robin look scholarly.

  36. The Southern white boys who are running this country did not serve during Vietnam…/ Tom DeLay says that with all the “ghetto boys” in the military there was not room for him……I know that the army was manned by men from the South BUT none of whom are now running the country….See, son…my statement had two parts….southern white boys WHO DID NOT SERVE and WHO ARE NOW RUNNING THE COUNTRY…southern white boys who did serve and southern white boys who are now running the country are two mutually exclusive groups…
    Bush 2 appointed Colin Powell as Secretary of State…not Secretary of Defense…..because, by law, the secretary of defense is a civilian and gives orders to the military…and Powell was retired by the time of his appointment to State. 
    Note, also in my statement, I used the qualifier, “I believe” as tp why the southern white boys running the country did not serve in Vietnam.  Can’t prove why, I just offered my belief….based on years of observation and a nodding acquaintence with the military..and southern white boys…

  37. Your belief is the belief of an idiot, Dwyer.  And since you are not a veteran yourself, it is a doubly stupid thing to say about a war you did not fight and one which you were progbably much to young to have served in.  George Bush, who is one of the people running the country, I believe, did serve more than two years active duty during the war.  Bush named Powell to state because, a-while it would be legal to name a retired general as secretary of defense it would violate the principle of civilian supremacy and has never happen.  and b, Secretary of State FAR outranks secretary of defense.  It’s the oldest and highest ranking cabinet post.  And, kid, unless you’re a grandfather like I am, be careful about calling me “son.

  38. You are right, I never served in the military.  I defer to your service.  You tell me why the men from the South who are now running the country never went to Vietnam…..even though they were supporting that war. Just tell me. What is your opinion? ( I think I am a few years old than you. I remember Kennedy pulling strings and being less than honest about his health to get into WWII.)

      Another culture I have a nodding acquaintence with is that of Latin America…I remember when Reagan sent GIs to El Salvador, an US tv correspondent interviewed a Salvadoran young man who was exercising in a glamourous spa in a wealthy section of San Salvador…I remember the sweat on the gold chains around the kid’s neck…The correspondent asked why wasn’t he fighting for his country…why did the GIs have to come in and fight for him? The kid looked at him, incrediously and explained that he was a member of the leadership class and it was his job to lead and he certainly wouldn’t risk his life on his country’s battlefields.  There were lower classes  to do that bloody work.  You think that was the attitude of the Southern gentry?  You tell me why they didn’t fight….and I find it sad that a Vietnam veteran defends Bush hiding out saving Texas borders from Oklahoma during that war, but  I certainly respect your right to revere him…..just tell me why, in general, in  your opinion, the Southern White Boys who are now running the country never went to Vietnam and most never put on a uniform?

  39. Dwyer
    Why do you and George assume that everyone must either be in the military or have been in the military to matter? I missed being called to Nam by a matter of months. My dad was too young for the Korean war and too old for the Vietnam war. Does that make me or him or our opinions any less worthy?

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