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October 19, 2009 03:52 PM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • 60 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about.”

–Mark Twain

Comments

60 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread

  1. Because this is just getting ridiculous.

    By appearing on Fox, reporters validate its propaganda values and help to undermine the role of legitimate news organizations. Respectable journalists-I’m talking to you, Mara Liasson-should stop appearing on its programs.

    1. …as one of those former tools of the liberal-biased media, I absolutely agree with the premise of the article.

      Fox31 is a pariah in this DMA, because they’re staffed by hacks who dump their journalistic integrity for the Right-wing marching orders of the senior staff of the station.

      It’s not perceptive – go on the Heartland Emmy’s website and compare nominations for the news categories with the winners. The GOP Moonbat station doesn’t do that well with it’s peers.

      1. I just don’t remember Bush going after MSNBC.  Maybe it’s because he understood the concept of a free press a little better?

        What’s the Obama admin. so afraid of regarding Fox?  Wouldn’t it behoove them to appear on the network in order to so easily refute the obviously made up stories and embarrass the network, and set the viewers (who make up more than all the other cable network news ratings combined) straight?

        1. The jist of the article is not the Obama WH’s plan to “get” Fox Noise, it’s about the lack of journalistic integrity and obvious bias in reporting. (I’m tossing out Hannity and O’Reilly because they are political entertainment shows.)

          Fox Noise (and most of their local affiliates) has ZERO cred with the rest of the Journalism industry. Not just because of the fact they’re the GOP’s media bitch, but for doing things like terminating reporters for failing to lie, and then defending their right to lie in court.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J

          This may have given the Roger Ailes a gigantic woody to win this lawsuit, but it resonated with the rest of the news industry. This more than anything makes Fox Noise a joke in the industry, and other respectable and honest journalists need to treat it as such.

          1. So if it’s sooooo bad, send one of the amazing people from the administration on to make them look silly, instead of crying about it, and sending out talking points (and so obviously so).

            1. Rule 1. of going on a hostile venue–They will edit you if you let them to diminish or deaden you.

              When watching an interview, always look long stretches of the subject talking.  Be suspicious of free floating answers.

              Better to freeze them out.

              With Palin it was the juxtaposition of the question asked and her answers that was so shocking, I think she would have looked even worse in an unedited interview.

              For the commentary shows, Rachel Maddow is about the only person who seems to give people she disagrees with free rein to express themselves.

            2. Why on earth would anybody lend their credibility to those schmucks? So they have an audience, so what? That’s the 20% of Americans self-identified as Republican. They play that audience like a violin, with no interest in “fair and balanced” coverage.

              Every time this administration has made an effort to reach across the aisle, the R’s take it as an opportunity to kick them in the head. As you have pointed out on several occasions, the D’s have majorities in both houses and can do things without R approval. Maybe they’ve finally gotten the message.  

        2. By his own definition it is not a news network.  While MSNBC has liberal opinion voices it also presents news during the day in the traditional manner and often criticizes Democrats, including liberals and progressives. CNN as well as the networks, also present such traditional news and criticism, not to mention Lou Dobbs who can’t by any stretch be considered liberal or even moderate.  There could never be a progressive version of Lou Dobbs on Fox.  

          There is nothing of the kind on Fox, not surprising considering Murdoch’s openly stated purpose.  All news is presented with conservative (or conservative as it has come to be defined) bias whether it appears on an opinion show such as Beck’s or is presented as straight journalism.    Also President Bush, albeit mainly through surrogate  supporters, attacked the liberal media in general all the time.  

          To simply call Fox what Murdoch himself  defines it as, an organ for supporting the conservative agenda, is not an attack but simply stating a fact. Fox is not a news network, never has been. If Murdoch doesn’t pretend that it is,  why the fuss when others point that out? It’s not as if anyone is calling for it to be shut down.

            1. I think the broadcast networks reflect the interest of their ownership.

              General Electric owns NBC.

              Disney owns ABC.

              Viacom owns CBS.

              Their programming reflects the large influence of their corporate interests. For populism, you have to go to the internet or smaller independent media. Turn on your television, and you are spoken to from the viewpoint of the big companies that own the big megaphones.

              The farthest left voice you hear there will never be anything more than the farthest left voice that they do not mind you hearing.

                    1. Better to respond with the recipe thing than admitting that someone who worked for CBS admitting that she knew of only one conservative there.  

                      Damn that Fox News! Oh…wait….

                      That’s MSNBC!

                    2. ..l got news for you. Journalists keep their political affiliations VERY VERY quite. (Staff, maybe not so much. Esp me.)

                      They do this so they CAN DO THEIR JOBS. If, for example, Adam Schrager (a lurker on this fine website) actively proclaimed his stand as a proud Democrat, how many Repubs would want to talk to him?

                      And while I’m not a fan of the News Director at 9News (Patti Dennis) I give her profs all day long for her work in keeping that newsroom a political-neutral place. I do know the political stand of several reporters there. It has NEVER EVER interfered with their reporting.

                      (BTW, I have not one solitary clue what Adam Schrager’s political core is. He’s the freaking Political Sphinx of Denver.)

                      So, if you were to ask, say, Bob Kendrick how many  Conservatives he knew at 9News, he might say one. And that’s only because he’s very close personal friends of that reporter.

                      THAT’s why that station is an example of journalistic excellence in this market. And for the same reasons, that GOP Media Bitch Know as Fox31 isn’t even a shitstain on their drawers.

                    3. ….and they did not replace any major staff when the new owners took over.

                      Yes, I hate Fox31…go back and find my commentary over the useless and stupid “end of life” bogus news story they did at the DAV National Convention.

                    4. but most, if not all, of the political types in Colorado have checked that at one point or another. Yours in lurking. –ajs

            1. It’s the poor, unwashed masses that need to be protected from themselves in so many ways.

              Forgive them, for they know not how they are missing Dear Leader’s talking points because of Fox’s “un-American” static.

            2. They either go on Fox News shows and argue with Glenn Beck, or they follow your advice and avoid it. If they do the latter, they get asked constantly by other news media why they’re avoiding Fox. Sometimes they answer those questions. This apparently causes controversy.

            3. addresses the simple fact that the creator of Fox news himself states openly that    its purpose is to be a platform for the conservative agenda is very telling. That really should be the end of the debate, shouldn’t it? Why argue with Murdoch?  Shouldn’t he know what Fox is all about?  

              I challenge anyone to seriously contend there is no criticism of progressive views on network, CNN or even on MSNB or that MOM is just as biased in favor of the left as Fox is in favor of the right or that Murdoch doesn’t know what his own network is about.  They can’t, so instead of addressing my points they repeat the same old canards.

              And I never said a word about being offended, just presented Murdoch’s own view of his own network.  Pathetic.  Since they can’t argue with facts they have to make up something to argue with. Like death panels and Kenyan births, that’s become all the right is left with: ignoring facts and making stuff up.  

                1. I never mentioned Ailes.  I said Murdoch. Several times.  It’s such a commonly quoted remark made years ago I consider it to be in the realm of common knowledge and you can damn well google it yourself.  Years ago, for instance, it was included, with sourcing, in the documentary “Out Foxed”.

                  Now I understand why replies from righties so often have nothing to do with statements made in the comments to which they are replying. You don’t bother to read and just fill in with the usual talking points.

                  Left wing media bias is nothing compared to Fox all propaganda all the time.  And of course MSM (sorry about typo MOM in previous remark.  Must have wondered what the heck that meant.  Oh wait you probably didn’t read that far) is owned by big corporations that allow liberal tendencies to go only so far. If anything, the media as a  whole, from network to Fox, is controlled by corporatists, not liberals. Want a source for that, too?

                    1. If you’ll just have a steak and beer with him, you’d certainly come away with the conclusion that LB is a swell guy. Swell I tell ya. It’s just that his brain is muddled.  

                    2. If only more Republicans were like LB. This country would be a lot better off. He’s far, far more reasonable than the vast majority of his fellow party members.

                      Politics aside, he really couldn’t be a nicer guy. There’s more to life than these oftentimes pointless blog arguments we get into. I disagree with LB on a lot of policy, but that doesn’t mean his brain is muddled, or that he is anything other than a great person in real life. He’s a loving father and husband, a help to the community, and on top of that he’s a reasonable Republican who you can actually have a conversation with. That’s rare, and his political viewpoints don’t take anything away from that.

                      The fact that he reaches out to liberals here, and makes an attempt at face-to-face contact should be applauded–not sarcastically denigrated.

                    3. I’m slightly more hard nosed about our Republican friends. And, given a chance to have a reasonable discussion with them, I’ll take it. LB needs defenders, you’re swell.

                    4. The fact that neither Barron nor LB

                      addresses the simple fact that the creator of Fox news himself states openly that    its purpose is to be a platform for the conservative agenda is very telling.

                      First of all, I typed Ailes instead of Murdoch – just a mistake, yes, I know who both are.  My bad.  

                      Second, if it’s such an apparent quote, you must have it handy, or memorized.  Post it.

                      Third, do you have any conservative friends?  Is this how you talk to them over lunch or a cocktail?  This isn’t personal, we’re debating politics.  Dial it down a notch, please.

                    5. see http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP. for starters, LB

                      The main reason I’m not inclined to do all your research for you is because I am so tired of getting replies, not to anything I’ve said, but to things I haven’t said. It seems to be the conservative MO but not what I expect from you.  

                      I accept that in this case your referring to Ailes was a mistake but it’s so typical of the responses I see from conservatives.  It’s so typical that when conservatives don’t want to argue the facts they ignore them, set up a straw dog so they can argue with that instead or simply spew talking points. It did really set me off and I will take under consideration your suggestion that I turn it down a notch.  

                      Still, I have to admit that the fact that someone I consider to be highly intelligent can, for a second, mistake Fox for anything resembling a legitimate news source, is something I find truly mind boggling. Other MSM sources may be biased to one degree or another but Fox stands alone as the network where all, whether presented as straight news or as opinion, is so clearly nothing but propaganda for a single  view.

                      Also, your allying yourself so completely with the faction that believes that anything that’s bad for Obama is peachy no matter how bad it may also be for the country and all its people is extremely disappointing and something I never would have expected.  But you’re right.  That’s personal and I should dial down the personal in these exchanges.

                    6. Good reply, and I’ll elaborate.

                      My point was that you’re referencing Murdoch saying something, why not just post it with a link at the time you’re referencing it.  Not a big deal.

                      The Ailes thing was truly just an error.  I’m not smart enough to use a decoy argument.

                      The news portion of Fox is biased, but it’s still news.  I see it as less biased than network or MSNBC, CNN is to the left, and I physically can’t stand watching it – it’s banal and idiotic most of the time.  I can’t stand O’Reilly and wouldn’t be caught dead watching or listening to Glenn Beck.  I did really like Brit Hume’s show, and I still enjoy that panel most of the time.

                      On the other hand, between Rick Sanchez on CNN and Olberman on MSNBC, I don’t see how anyone can claim that Fox is all alone in being off-center.  

                      In Olberman’s case, the hypocrisy is astounding.  How is it that he can refer to a woman as a “big mashed-up bag of meat with lipstick on it” and still have a job?

                      I make no apologies about wanting many of Obama’s policies to fail.  Just as you didn’t about Bush.  I can respect that.  It really isn’t personal, and I’ve never viewed you as one of the folks on this site who take advantage of their anonymity to act like assholes, which has a lot more to do with their own personal psychological makeup than it does with politics.  So, no worries.  I wouldn’t have engaged you if I didn’t read what you post or thought I was wasting my time.

                    7. for, say, more troops to be killed in Iraq just so we could blame it on Bush?  Show  me where Dems like me were cheering the failures in the Gulf post-Katrina because it showed how incompetent the entire Bush administration was.  

                      Also I made a clear distinction between news and opinion on the various networks. Am not comparing what passes for straight news on Fox with opinion shows such as Countdown, although neither Olbermann nor the brilliant, perfectly gracious, flawlessly well mannered (in spite of what righties say about her being some lefty version of a moron like Glen Beck) Maddow present out and out lies as fact.  

                      But never mind. I should have stuck with not engaging directly with you anymore.  it’s too painful.

                    8. Show me video of Dems like me were rooting

                      for, say, more troops to be killed in Iraq just so we could blame it on Bush?  Show  me where Dems like me were cheering the failures in the Gulf post-Katrina because it showed how incompetent the entire Bush administration was.  

                      I didn’t say anything like this.  I’m talking about tax cuts, privatization of social security, etc.  Policy, not wars and natural disasters. I should have been more clear as to which policies I was referring to.

                      I am not rooting for a terror attack or for Iran to get a nuke.  I am not cheering the crumbling of the dollar or astronomical debt because it will eventually make Obama look bad.

                      But…I don’t want government-run health care, I don’t want the government owning banks or auto companies, and I am furious at the stimulus bill that was ramrodded through congress because it’s much more of an entitlement expansion than jobs stimulus of any kind, and is just so much money.

                      These are things we could probably argue the merits of and you wouldn’t be left thinking I was accusing you of some of the things you apparently thought I was.

                      Maddow is different, I agree.  She’s less shrill and more respectful.  I like that.  She’s deranged (just like me, eh?) but she’s pleasant about it, and sharp as a tack.

                      I think you read something totally different into what I posted.  Does My clarification make more sense?

                    9. but you did seem to be saying that  progressives like me were rooting for Bush administration failure in exactly the way the right roots for Obama administration failure and I don’t agree. Don’t agree that even Olbermann and certainly not Maddow, are on the same level as Beck or Limbaugh.  I do think many on the right really do see any national misfortune as a good thing if it makes Obama look bad. They haven’t noticed that, no matter how badly Obama or Dems may do in the polls in a given week,  it never translates into a gain for Rs.  Most still want nothing to do with the discredited party of greed, warped family values, self righteous hypocrisy and incompetence.

                    10. Olbermann is far past anything Rush has ever done or said. He’s an angry, insane man.  

                      In my opinion, anyway.

                      They haven’t noticed that, no matter how badly Obama or Dems may do in the polls in a given week,  it never translates into a gain for Rs.

                      What’s your metric for this?  I’d use elections.  We’ll see what happens next fall, eh?

                      Most still want nothing to do with the discredited party of greed, warped family values, self righteous hypocrisy and incompetence.

                      Is that truly what you think people like me represent?  I think you’d be surprised.

                    11. Republicans have been down in the dumps poll-wise, and haven’t pulled up one inch.  They’re still sitting down in the net -40 basement, a level they haven’t managed to break since March.

                      Democrats have been losing ground, but it’s been mostly from their base, who are coming down from the high of regaining control and are realizing that the current government isn’t giving them everything they dreamed about, or doing so quickly enough to satisfy them.  It’ll spike if a strong health care reform bill goes through.  If it doesn’t, their numbers will worsen, but Republican numbers will still be in the toilet regardless…

                    12. If it doesn’t, their numbers will worsen, but Republican numbers will still be in the toilet regardless…

                      You don’t think things are cyclical?  We’ll see.  Again, the only polls that matter are the ones in November every two years.

                    13. “but it rhymes.”

                      Right now, I don’t see the Republican upswing coming that soon.  The brand is still too tarnished, and the birther/deather/teabagger/fascists-at-every-turn crowd are still the ones holding the microphones.

                    14. If it doesn’t, their numbers will worsen, but Republican numbers will still be in the toilet regardless…

                      You don’t think things are cyclical?  We’ll see.  Again, the only polls that matter are the ones in November every two years.

                    15. the portion of those willing to self identify as Rs is down to 20%, lowest since 1983, and those who approve of Rs in congress is down to 19% even though only 34% approve of Ds in congress.   Obama’s numbers are back up to where they were before the attack of the loony-tunes fringe in August, 57%.  So, yeah, it’s safe to say the Rs aren’t getting much traction right now.  Stay tuned for those elections. And I’m not even going to comment on your defense of Limbaugh.  

                    16. I buy the rest of what you say, but was Republican self-identification really that low at the height of the Reagan revolution? That sounds odd.

                    17. Maybe that should be fact checked.  At any rate, driving Dem or Obama approval down isn’t driving theirs up.

                    18. Yglesias looks at the WaPo/ABC poll and finds trust in congressional Republicans sinking:

                      Confidence in Obama is not sky-high, but confidence in the opposition is rock-bottom. By way of contrast, 37 percent of the population believes the US government has had secret contact with extra-terrestrials.

                    19. Haven’t found anything on that yet but remember that all those Reagan Dems were probabably self identifying as Dems even though they had voted for Reagan. So it could well be accurate.  If I remember correctly it was Chris Cilizza I heard that from. In any case, nothing for Rs to cheer about.  Low confidence in pols in general but lowest by far in Rs.

                    20. about Reagan Democrats — and it’s worth remembering, Democrats were terribly complicit in the Reagan Revolution.

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