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September 10, 2009 03:28 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 81 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“I have a different vision of leadership. A leadership is someone who brings people together.”

–George W. Bush

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81 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Interesting piece made more relevant by TCG’s recent diary.

    http://www.observer.com/2009/m…

    But, contrary to what some might think, fewer and fewer of those visitors seem to be the journalists that were once so captivated by Matt Drudge-not to mention his vaguely terror-inducing headlines, taste for the obscure and occasionally spinning siren light. Is it because of increased competition online? Fewer scoops? Or simple Drudge fatigue?

    Has Matt Drudge lost his edge?

  2. Many of you have probably seen the p.s. in the President’s email last night:

    One of the folks in the audience tonight was your Senator, Michael Bennet. Since arriving in Congress, Senator Bennet has shown his commitment to real, sensible reform, working with me toward the same goals I outlined this evening — and I want to thank him for his leadership on this issue. He’s traveled all across the state of Colorado, holding town hall meetings in small towns and big cities, and he hasn’t stopped standing up for real health reform that will get our economy moving again and help to bring the deficit under control.

    A Markos rant forthcoming?  

  3. It was just a speech last night, but what a beautiful pitch perfect speech. And with the 15 point bounce in the polls from it, it gives Obama the oomph to carry through on his proposal.

    We’ll have a comprehensive game-changing bill in 2 months.

    1. The public option is only a means to that end – and we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal. And to my Republican friends, I say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may have.

      For example, some have suggested that that the public option go into effect only in those markets where insurance companies are not providing affordable policies. Others propose a co-op or another nonprofit entity to administer the plan. These are all constructive ideas worth exploring. But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can’t find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice. And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need.

      1. is not the way to get it done, and that the American people are on to you.

        “I say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may have.”

      2. It also means you’re about to start some incomprehensible rant based on imaginary info, sprinkled with factious commentary that seems to please you but make no sense whatsoever.

        Give it up, Blogger-named-for-Filipino-Street-with-hookers-and-cockfighting…..you tried posting this stupid last night, and no one cared.

        1. — in the thought that the Pres had bargained away the Public Option.  Then I re-read this and I’m questioning that theory.

          It reads that the Pres says the “public option is only a means to that end” – universal coverage.  But he then goes on to say that the government will be their with an option.  

          So what is it? Are the pundits on CNN saying its a give up, is Biden, is the AFLI-CIO or is the Public Option still on the table?

          and to you Staff Sarg “Bitter” Dan … I have to laugh that you either have roamed this polluted street, talk to your wife about blogger handles or that she is laying down bets tonight in Manila on Libertad.

                1. Why he engages to spin bizzare animal cruelty and child prostiution claims is beyond me.  

                  Its plain goofy and calls into question his mental state.

                  Then he evolves his perverted attacks with prostitution and aminal cruelty to include his own wife.  

                  SSG_Dan = more bizzare, more goofy.

                  1. …because I really don’t give a shit about your opinion about me. Or my wife.

                    I’m never going to be insulted by the Snuff Porn King of Colorado Pols, so don’t bother.

                    And the more you answer my posts with more of your crazy, I’m hoping it’ll reduce your entry of “Crazy Stupid Posts” everywhere else on this website.

                    So keep it up, or give it up. Either way, 99.9% of this website already dismisses you as the .01% we have to tolerate for the right of Free Speech.  

                    1. …  and there you go again with more goofy retorts.

                      Your just plain goofy and this continuing obsession with liberally perverted sex calls into question your mental state.

                    3. “I think you’re some kind of deviated prevert. I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and that you were organizing some kind of mutiny of preverts.”

                    4. Good luck at keeping the wife off hooker row in Manila … hope Mrs. Vick stays away from the rooster fighting too.

          2. I’ll start listening to AM760’s morning program when Jay gets back.  Sirota – and I hope you’re reading this, David – was a complete ass this morning.  He was doing exactly what the rarely-allowed-to-talk callers accused him of – yakking on repeatedly about his defeatist opinions of the speech.  And then he was rude to the callers he did let on.

            I suspect he wanted the President to say “we’re starting over, and the baseline is a single payer system.”  And all the while claiming that he was attached not to the party or the man, but the goal, he ignored the fact that the one line in the President’s speech that drove him to despair – the one you partially quote above – was nothing more than a statement that the President was willing to be open-minded to the best solution available.

            Sirota should know how this works – he had Rep. Degette on the other week.  She said it clearly: if there’s a solution that’s as good or better than the public option at controlling costs and increasing competition, she was open to hearing it – but she hasn’t heard about one yet.

            I want the best solution to the problem.  That would, in all likelihood, be a single payer option.  I’m not getting that, but at this point I’ll take anything that will save me, my employer, my state, and my country money while increasing the level of care.

            I think a national co-op or non-profit corporation (not per-state) with strict controls over its board composition would serve almost as well as a public option in the long run (but not in the short term, when it would lack the bargaining power of the Federal Government’s existing health care networks).  I don’t think a trigger would work, no matter how well crafted.  I’m willing to listen to any suggestions, but I’m also more than ready to shoot them down if they don’t do the job.

            The President, I think, likes to be surrounded by a universe of competing ideas.  He’s said as much when composing his Cabinet.  In the end, though, what he said last night sets the boundaries of his flexibility: no lies, better coverage, lower costs, or it’s off the table.

      3. The first part means – if someone can come up with a better plan, I’ll listen.  (So far, no-one’s come up with a better plan than the public option, except single payer which doesn’t have the support it needs to pass.)

        The second part means – I’m here in part to dispel the rumors and fears that have been going around.  This plan regulates insurers so that they can no longer kick you off of their plan when you get sick, or deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition.  And this plan never included provisions for government bureaucrats to intrude on your health care.

        1. he’s mandated that competition will exist from the govt.  People will have the choice to stay with their plan or move to the more benefitial govt plan.

          In short I think he’s created a back door to the Public Option and that the efficent govt plan will draw over more and more users.

          That is until the insurance companies twist up the statutes and create a bureauocratic mess for the government to operate its saftey net Public Option.  

          Once again costing the Taxpayers billions to support a new program.

          1. ‘Cause you’re going to pay for health insurance one way or another, eh? And personally, I’d rather that my bill didn’t include 25% that pays for some nameless clerk to comb through my file looking for something, anything, on which to deny me the coverage I paid for.

            Apparently, everything right now is peachy keen in your view. That’s great. I’m happy for you. Really. But I also know that my brother’s wife just got denied coverage for a hysterectomy because of some fibroid tumors that she had 3 decades ago.

            So, good luck with that insurance plan of yours. I hope you never need it.

                1. I talked to someone today who’s mother was rerated (one of the techniques they use to rescind coverage) after a hysterectomy.

                  Apparently, it is quite common after hysterectomies for insurance companies to rerate.  Women typically have long health histories for GYN as a result of being responsible and getting regular checkups and tests.

                  The women consider it routine (and it is) and occasionally there are minor problems/abnormalities that crop up from time to time.

                  Unfortunately when women fill out their health questionnaires it never occurs to them that 1 abnormal pap smear could be considered a “reproductive problem” especially when they never received treatment and their subsequent tests were normal.  

                  The insurance company will then use this to deny coverage.

                  There are so many ways to fix this easily it makes me cry when I hear the stories.

                    1. If corporations were punished as severely as natural persons, they wouldn’t do a lot of the shit they do now.

                      Negligent homicide?  1-3 years imprisonment and up to $100,000 fine.  Translate that into corporate terms: court receivership (effectively takes the place of Chair/CEO) for 1-3 years, all profits collected are given to the government in restitution, no shareholder payouts, strict salary and benefits caps to all senior officers, board members serve (mandatory continued service AND ATTENDANCE at board meetings) for no pay for the duration.  Corporations retain a felony record, and cannot apply for government contracts that might be barred to ex-cons; corporations must provide truthful answers when asked about their felony record, and cannot hide that record via legal tricks or paper blizzards.

                      A corporation caught willfully ignoring a known risk from its products that causes the death of a customer receives a corporate “Life” penalty.  Minimum 20 year corporate imprisonment, and it must show that it has reformed before being released after that time.  (Most corporations would rather terminate operations under these conditions…)

                    2. I’m not sure about your solution (I don’t think it is viable), but your analysis of the problem, the lack of appropriate punishment for corporate malfeasance, is spot on.

                    3. I don’t think we have enough court masters that are properly trained in corporate management to handle the caseload!

                      On a more serious note, what’s “viable” to you?

                      Most of what I proposed is reasonably easy, if not terribly comfortable for the company.  No expansion, no investments,  no fiddling around with the details of the business; only maintenance, necessary business expenses, and wages.  If the business degrades, well, so does a person rotting in a cell for years.  Corporations want to be treated like persons when it comes time for political speech; I’m just saying the door can swing both ways.

          3. After all, it is mandated to get all of its revenue from premiums.  And it won’t be the insurance company’s dumping ground because they will no longer be able to dump people.  No way to dump costs on taxpayers, no institutional way to skew the risk pools.

            It also isn’t supposed to be “more beneficial” because it will be offering the standard benefits packages defined by the new health commission.  Private companies actually have a benefit there – they are free to offer extended benefits packages outside of the “standard” benefit levels.

            What it might be is a better deal – same service, less cost – because it’s not worried about its CEO’s multi-million dollar compensation package.  But a CEO’s benefits pale to the savings we should see across the board as the insurance companies cut back on the benefit denial bureaucracy.

  4. H.R. 3200: Sec 246 – NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    Further, he even lies about his name….his real name is Addison Graves Wilson.

    2. Wilson is wrong in what he did, being a complete childish jerk, but also wrong about what is in the bill.

      I am pretty sure the time for battling outright falsehoods is over, the adults are going to stand up and pitch in, and we’ll get something done.

      I think if Wilson’s obnoxious and inappropriate outburst displayed anything last night it’s that the Republicans just aren’t interested in doing anything meaningful to reform healthcare.

      1. are Republicans really willing to let Americans without access to healthcare lose their lives and/or homes because an illegal immigrant might get a flu shot?

        The absurdity of their position boggles the mind.

        1. .

          maybe the Dems are just as bad,

          but this interview suggests to me that Mr. Boehner threatened to cancel his earmarks and take away his committee assignments if he didn’t do exactly what the party leadership dictated.

          Sure, his comment was impolite.  But that should be between him and his District.  

          Instead, now that he’s comfortably established in DC, his focus is on pleasing the party leadership, and voters count for little.

          Its a little bit like Pat Toomey giving marching orders to Representative Lamborn.

          .

  8. two-run double in the third.

    Rox ahead 5-1 with two outs.

    It’s hard to write about Giambi without thinking about Jambi the (gay?) genie in PeeWee’s Playhouse.

    Mecca lecca hi, mecca hiney ho, and go Rox.

  9. John Tomasic over at the Colorado Independent:

    ABC is reporting that President Obama has asked to meet with select Democratic senators, including Colorado Sens Mark Udall and Michael Bennet, as well as former Connecticut Democrat now Independent Joe Lieberman. Speculation is that the president is looking to shore up support for the so-called public option designed to compete with private insurers to drive down health-care costs.

    He also says there’ll be a Udall/Bennet press conference after the meeting. It would be great if both of them got out in front of this renewed energy for reform.

        1. Yes, I think he does.

          Last night, I even wrote down the time he was speaking because health care reform is a big deal to me personally, but I would be remiss if I didn’t admit that it’s the first speech of his I have listened to, start to finish, in ages.

          That said, I really do like that he speaks more often than some presidents in the past did because we have an awful lot of issues all on the front burner at the same time and I think it’s important that the public feels as though they are being kept in the loop.  

          1. I think some in the middle might be tiring of the permanent campaign, but you’re right – there are a lot of issues at the forefront, and the foreign policy front has even been a little quiet.

            I saw some rumors that Hillary might be resigning in the fall to run for NY Governor – that would make things interesting, eh?

            1. A President who, because of his lack of communication skills, never talked to us.

              I like it when our elected officals talk to us.

              I guess you prefer guys who hide in a “secure undisclosed location?”

            2. Honestly, I’d bet money she would cream Patterson. He’s been New York’s version of Ritter and that wasn’t meant as a compliment. I have a hard time seeing her leave Secretary of State, though. That’s a powerful position where she can affect a real shift in foreign policy.

              If it were me, I’d rather be SoS any day than governor over a fucked up legislative body like the one in NY.  

              1. Although she’s done an admirable job as SoS, she would have been the best Senate majority leader ever.

                I think she would make an excellent Governor though.

        1. Because you are making up my intent in posting two words, and I think you’re dead wrong in your interpretation.

          You do not get to define where I’m coming from based on where you wish that to be.  For your benefit, I’ll explain myself fully, right now.

          Wake Up:

          We still have troops in danger every minute in Afghanistan, and now we have polls showing 60% of the public wanting them back, and the Speaker of the House telling the President he can’t have any more troops, even if the generals request them.

          I have a great buddy who was a high school science teacher here in Denver until he was called in off of inactive reserve and is now in western Afghanistan doing medical work.

          What pisses me off (besides you pretending to know what I meant and then not allowing me to clarify it to you – that’s not tapdancing.  It’s communication) is the political ease of claiming ‘another Vietnam’ in Afghanistan and hanging our troops and most of the Afghans out to dry – to be butchered by cavemen simply because of approval ratings on a difficult, but righteous conflict.

          I sense what’s coming, and I’m actually proud of Obama for having sent more troops to the theater.  I hope he sends more – enough to finish the job, to provide enough security for the Afghans to live their lives and elevate their society to the point where it functions.  Afghanistan wasn’t always like it has been since 1979.  It was peaceful and safe for many years.

          If any country at any point in history could save the vast majority of Afghans who don’t pour acid on girls that go to school from the Taliban, it’s us.  We can be as creative and helpful, as powerful as we need to be over there.

          Every guy that’s died or been wounded over there deserves us giving it our best shot, even if it’s difficult and unpopular here.  I hope Obama can continue to do that.  I really do.

          That is what I meant.  If that makes you mad then so be it.  You don’t have to respond to me – ever – if you don’t want.  This is it for me, I’m done until you’re ready .

          I like your posts, and what you do, and who you are.  

          I took a few days off because I’ve been so caustic, and I’ve always prided myself on being civil to everyone that deserved it here, and I’ve slipped lately, and that’s bullshit.  

          Other factors in my life don’t get to turn me into a turd here, and they have the last few weeks.  It’s always a struggle not responding to the bile and venom that pervades a minority of folks here, but it’s always worth it to not stoop to their level  – it’s a microcosm of our country, and somebody has to try to not hate the opposition.  I’ve just been weak at it lately.  

          That’s a group apology.  

          1. I was going to write – and I feel that my issue with your post was my own, not the community property of the website.

            But now that it’s out there, yes, I did interpret your two-word into for your post as another Yellow Elephant whine to get out of AFPAK.

            Based on your recent nasty, simple comments that seem lifted straight from the Right-Wing Stupid Pile, it all added up to you turning into Rep Allard, who went from praising HW Bush’s humanitarian deployment in Somalia to his outright lie about Clinton withdrawing troops and causing the whole mess.

            I have my own issues for responding as I did – that’s why I wanted a few days to simmer down and reflect on my post.

            So, if LB ver1 is back, explanation accepted, and we can fence over the issues with no malice. If you revert to LV ver2, then I’m dropping off Pols.

    2. It’s not like he’s a hockey player. I thought it was just a superstitious thing that NHL players did, not a steadfast rule for everyone on Earth.

      My friend’s facebook picture is him holding the Cup, and my wife also got to hold the cup. Neither of them are huge hockey fans, but they always talk about it. I think as a sports fan, Obama just wanted to hold on to a piece of history. Plus, I’m sure Sidney Crosby offered him the chance–it’s not like he just grabbed the Cup out of his hands and went “THIS IS OBAMA’S NOW!”

      2. ..when a team wins the championship, the Team Captain is the first person to hoist the cup in Victory. Not some doofus owner or front-office desk jockey, a player.

        Short of the Tour De France, winning the Stanley Cup is the most physically grueling and exhausting test of professional sports. As such, the players who competed are (supposed to be) the only ones who have won the right to hoist that cup.

        Again, Obama is my Prez, but he didn’t win the right to hold that Cup. The Pens players did.

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