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September 03, 2009 03:37 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 86 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.”

–Patrick Henry

Comments

86 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

    1. Oh, I think that’s so cool.

      I used to know a American History teacher (how appropriate, no?) from Eagle Rock school, James Sherman, who was a direct descendant of Roger Sherman, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.  

      1. is a descendent of Charles Carroll, who was both the wealthiest signer of the Declaration of Independence, and the only Catholic to sign, and the last signer to die. He recently lost the title of oldest person to serve in the U.S. Senate.

    2. is that we are descended from Lucy of the Ethiopian Great Rift Valley fame.  I haven’t quite yet been able to trace my ancestry all the way back that 3.2 million years.  I keep getting hung up by the creationist, like Josh “Flimflam” Penry and Janet “Bestiality” Rowland, who insist that we teach the earth is only 6 thousand years old.

      Now, if I could only find out Lucy’s maiden name, maybe Ancestry.com could provide some answers?

  1. from CNN

    In trying to get their message across, administration officials have “just as good a shot as some 20-year-old college student from Chicago,” he said. “It’s just they have more people behind that issue. They have a greater pull.”

    Some have criticized the online community and Internet spin-masters for creating, and spreading, disinformation about proposals for health care reform.

    On the whole, though, the Internet conversation about the subject is healthy in part because so much information is available, said Bill Adair, editor of PolitiFact.com, a nonpartisan site that fact-checks political statements.

    “People have access now to more information than ever before and that’s generally a very positive thing,” he said. “Although the Internet can be used to spread a lot of false things, it’s also never been easier for journalists like myself to debunk these things, you know? So on balance, the reality is we just have a whole new dimension to the national discussion on any topic and that has positives and negatives.”

    The CNN article is about how this has driven the health care (note 2 words) debate. But the points it raises are valid for any political discussion.

  2. from the Denver Post

    President Barack Obama’s plan to address the nation’s students during the school day Tuesday has polarized parents over whether it’s OK for their kids to listen to the speech.

    Because lord knows we don’t want our children to hear anything that we don’t agree with 100%.

      1. They’ve made some changes to the associated curriculum.  If it’s political, my kids are young enough that I’d prefer they be in my presence.

        If it’s just a ‘work hard, excel’ kind of thing, then I don’t care.

  3. from KTLA

    A 65-year-old man had his finger bitten off Wednesday evening at a health care rally in Thousand Oaks, according to the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department.

    News reports have it a MoveOn health care supporter bit the finger off a health care opponent.

    Fortunately the health care opponent is old enough that he’s on the socialist government run medicare and should get good treatment.

    1. …I had planned to go and ask a calm rational question of Health Care Industry Bitch and US Congresswoman Diana DeGette until I started reading about incidents like this.

      Not that I plan to scream and shout at anyone – if I wasn’t going to be picked to ask a question, I would sit respectfully with whatever sign I planned to bring (NO PUBLIC OPTION? NO BILL!)

      Then I realized that one of these Teabagger Idiots would probably get in my face and start calling me a communist or a traitor, and I’d run the risk of losing my cool and pounding them into a mass of twitching protoplasm.

      So, I’ll watch the results on TV tonight.  

            1. And why we don’t look at the Netherlands National Health Care system which has Private Insurance and Health Providers, but an efficient payment, distribution, catastrophic illness and opt-out clauses.

          1. you make a good point. From the article:

            The 65-year-old was apparently aggressive and hit the other man, who then retaliated by biting off his attacker’s pinky, according to Karoli from DrumsnWhistles.

            That’s one hell of an escalation of violence in pretty short order. I’ve been avoiding the Town Hall meetings like they are the plague, mostly because I genuinely am concerned about the level of violence that seems to be increasing.  

            1. But the violence is minor, and by that I mean rare.

              There have been hundreds, maybe thousands, of town halls about healthcare. there have been dozens or fewer incidents of actual violence.

              But they get great coverage because with a 24/7 new cycle,  you gotta put something on tv.

      1. When I first got there, I was more than a little concerned about how some in the crowd would behave – a significant number of angry-looking folks wearing T-shirts that said things like “I pay enough taxes already,” or a bulls-eye with words saying “American Taxpayer,” or the man in the front row with an expensive-looking golf shirt which said something like “01 20 09 The day the Obama Error began.”

        Unfortunately it’s those types who have received the bulk of media attention in recent weeks, not by accident as E.J. Dionne points out in his column today  http://www.washingtonpost.com/

        The rest of us do have to show up when we can.  And the news media needs to take a long look at itself – many have painted a very distorted picture of what the majority of Americans are saying.

  4. Many will want to ride President Omaba for his failure to create (or save) millions of jobs.  This failure is not his fault, simply put it is the policy direction and tone that has scared the shit out of investors.

    Sept. 3 (Bloomberg) — More Americans than anticipated filed jobless-benefit claims last week, indicating companies remain focused on cutting expenses as the economy emerges from its worst recession since the 1930s.

    Applications fell by 4,000 to 570,000 in the week ended Aug. 29, exceeding the 564,000 median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News, figures from the Labor Department showed today in Washington. The total number of people collecting unemployment insurance climbed.

    The firings are one reason economists project consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy, will be slow to strengthen.

    Overtime markets will clear and the economy will reset.  As we learn the same language so that we can speak safely to one another we’ll come to understand that re-pledging to uphold the Constitution and core American values is the right pledge to make.  History, like technology can be a real ….; let us recall and rededicate ourselves that those principles on which our ansestors have built this fine nation.

    1. Some Tricare preventive services are now free

      As of Tuesday, certain Tricare beneficiaries no longer have to pay out of pocket for immunizations, mammograms and some other preventive services. (DAMN GOVT!! HOW DARE THEY INTERFERE WITH THE FREE MARKET AND GIVE AWAY SERVICES! THIS IS THE END OF PRIVATE HEALTH CARE!)

      Covered preventive services include screenings for colorectal cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer and prostate cancer; immunizations; and certain physical exams, including well-child visits for children younger than 6. This means the patient has no co-payments or cost shares, even if his or her annual Tricare deductible has not been met. (THE DEFICIT! THIS IS GOING TO COST THE TAXPAYERS THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS! WHO DO THESE “RETIREES” AND “MILITARY FAMILIES” THINK THEY AER? LIKE THEY’VE DONE ANYTHING FOR THIS COUNTRY!)

      Here’s how to get reimbursed, according to Tricare officials:

      * No claim form is required. Beneficiaries should contact the Tricare contractor that processed their claim and request a reimbursement. Beneficiaries may call or write; written requests should include the sponsor’s Social Security number, full names and dates of birth of all dependents, and a current mailing address. (WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH THAT INFORMATION???? SEND EVERYONE TO A SECRET DEATH CAMP IN NEVADA WITH THE ALIENS?)

      * Beneficiaries will be reimbursed directly by the contractor. (WHAT? AND TAKE AWAY A CHANCE FOR A NO-BID CONTRACT BY HALLIBURTON TO PROCESS THE CLAIM AT A 400% MARKUP???))

      (Did I do it right?)

      1. …the conservative meme that insurance should cover catastrophies and not maintenance (which should be paid for out of HSAs)is crap.

        Preventive care and screenings which lead to early diagnosis of preventable or curable (if caught early) conditions should be incentivised by lowering or removing the cost, not disincentivised by paying out of pocket or HSA so as to save your pennies for when the shit hits the fan.

  5. Rep Lamborn can’t bother to attend a deployment, re-deployment, funeral, family support group or pretty much any other soldier/airman-related event at any of the bases in his district.

    Meanwhile, Sen Udall forms a special Colorado Springs Military/Veteran advisory committee, hires a former Iraq/Bosnia/Kosovo Army Vet to be his point main in the area, and then makes trips to Fort Carson to talk to the troops.

    http://www.9news.com/news/arti

    You Repubs out there know that your “We Support the Troops” act has pretty much been exposed as the marketing ploy it is….

    (Barron X, you know I’m NOT talking about you, right?)

  6. Today the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel is not reporting**:

    BLM Investigating Chemical Spill in Cochetopa Creek

    Gunnison, Colo. – The Bureau of Land Management is monitoring efforts to clean up Cochetopa Creek after a privately owned truck overturned along Highway 114 in Cochetopa Canyon and spilled close to 4,000 gallons of citric acid onto the stream bank. Citric acid solution is used to clean natural gas well casing during well development.

    The accident occurred Sunday afternoon, August 30.

    BLM and Division of Wildlife Officials are investigating the impacts from the incident, which has caused some fish mortality in the creek. The spill created an acidic condition in the creek, and officials are looking for the best option to clean the spill up and restore proper pH balance in the creek and surrounding land.

    “This is a serious incident,” said Brian St. George, manager of the BLM Gunnison Field Office. “Our first priority here is public safety. We have posted signs at the campground nearby and are encouraging the public not to drink the water or enter the creek at this time.”

    Remember, I report the news so the media doesn’t have to.  Instead, I relied on a news release sent out by the BLM.  Meanwhile, the Sentinel reporter on the Gunnison beat was busy covering this.

    **NOTE: I no longer get the print edition of the Sentinel, and rely on the online version.  This may have appeared in the print edition, nonetheless the lack of reporting on this, and zero results from a Google news search, makes one wonder what else is out there “singing” in the gasfields.

    1. ….when I’d walk into an office in my old sales gigs.  Computers were still pretty scarce, but I often saw the Alt+Tab action of the receptionist’s hand.  

        1. We’ld take a screenshot of the desktop on starting and when they hit it we would paint that screenshot and then minimize the game. By painting the screenshot first it was an instant switch back to their desktop visually.

      1. While your guys are trying to blame racism and scary militia behavior (both a farce) for any opposition to this terrible power grab, a majority of Americans are awake and oppose the government running 1/6 of the economy.

        Acting like you’re not an employee of one’s constituents won’t help much.  I love these videos of crowds just out-and-out laughing at their spineless, moronic congresspeople.

        My favorite conservative blogger nails it:

        Which prompts us to wonder: how humiliating must it be, if you consider yourself to be one of the “smart folks”, to be beaten over and over again by a bunch of stupid, ignorant whack jobs?

        The litany of excuses over the years is almost too delicious to contemplate. When Democrats lost the 2000 and 2004 elections the nation was treated to a real tour de force of revisionist angst. Who were they beaten by?

        George Bush: a pretzel-snorting, fiendishly stupid evil mastermind with all the searing intellectual capacity of a mildly retarded chimpanzee. And yet somehow, this hapless bumbler managed to defeat two vastly smarter opponents and hoodwink half the electorate into voting for him.

        Go figure.

        As if that weren’t bad enough, now Barack Obama – a man with the mind of Aristotle and the mad oratorical skills of The Great Communicator – can’t out-argue a mob composed of ignorant lunatics and bitter, gun clinging racists!

          1. We’re so impotent that you’re blaming us for scuttling a garbage bill as a ‘superminority’.

            Obama doesn’t need a single R vote to pass this turd.  

            Your guys are terrified of passing it without “bi-partisan” cover.

            Have at it.

              1. Why are even idiot lefties like Feingold saying it’s over?

                WHo’s really impotent?  The supermajority or a few, bitter, gun-and-religion-clinging mouth-breathers?

                1. And Congress has also kind of sort of not been in session for a month.

                  I like teaching math in the summer, but it’s kind of difficult since none of the students are there.  

                2. You know about Blue Dog Dems, right? The Democrats do lack two of the GOP’s strengths – lockstep discipline and uniform ideology. They apparently also underestimated the right wing’s ability to mobilize the troops and distort the purpose of health care reform.

                  Liberal Democrats are not a supermajority, and Obama so far has yet to demonstrate his ability to get the votes lined up. Obviously losing Kennedy at this time is also a setback.

                  BUT… it ain’t over til it’s over. Why? Because NO ONE is either totally satisfied with their insurance, nor is anyone confident that their insurance will be their for them if they fall ill. Can you say, with assurance, that your insurance will cover you if you’re hurt or ill? Maybe they will at first, but do you think you’ll be able to continue getting good coverage after that?

                  You’re crowing prematurely. It ain’t over til it’s over.

      1. Standing on his side of the street.  

        How dare he oppose The One’sВ® brilliant health care plan!?!?!  The nerve!!!

        He’s like a rape victim wearing alluring clothing, eh?  Must have deserved it.

                    1. Does he buy you a steak? I would imagine more often he punches back, or escalates the fight in some other way.

    1. http://tpmlivewire.talkingpoin

      Next on the anti-reformer’s harassment list was a pro-reformer who appeared to be in his late 30s or early 40s, was stocky, and several inches shorter than the 65-year-old. Though Kuns isn’t sure how the pro-reformer ended up on the anti side of the street, she saw the two men face to face, exchanging words.

      Then the anti-reformer in the orange shirt “punches him straight up in the face, right between the eyes.” The smaller pro-reformer’s glasses and hat flew off, and he fell into the street.

      “I don’t know who started it wordwise,” Kuns said, “but I can tell you for sure that the guy who threw the first punch was the anti guy. And can he punch hard! He knocked this guy down into the street.”

      The pro-reformer got up. The anti-reformer tried to block him from standing on the curb. A short scuffle ensued, and it was unclear to Kuns who was doing what to whom. The anti-reformers surrounding the fighting men stayed back. When the fight ended, the pro-reformer crossed the street and announced to the MoveOn rally that he’d bitten the man’s finger off.

      “He was certainly not swaggering,” Kuns said, referencing earlier reports saying he had been. “He was pissed and he was shaking.”

      “He was angry. His demeanor was what you’d expect from somebody who’d just been hit hard. He was defensive.”

      Now, I can’t imagine how the guy ended up biting the finger off the other guy, but it’s clear that the right winger was the aggressor, and was picking on people much smaller than him. (Before this fight, he was harassing a pro-reform woman, also much smaller than this man.

      The punchline? Medicare is paying for his hospitalization. “Fuck you jack, I got mine” seems to be the motto of some of these people.

  7. So, do you know in your heart that the sun revolves around the Earth as well?

    Yes, the earth is flat.

    I can quote Friedman and Hayek to make your head spin.  

    You’re not right simply because you’re a condescending asshole.

    How about Obama’s own metaphor of the USPS?

    The USPS is an unsustainable mess.  Not what I want when I’m hurt or sick.

    I’m unwashed.   And if you knew who I was or what I do, you’d STFU.

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